8/3 Butternut PMPS=207 +1=273

Dandelion

Dandelion

Member Since 2015
yesterday

Butternut drifted down to blue during the night - nadir @ +11! Today's ride on the bg highway will be interesting.

He was walking all over the house this morning, pacing I think, because he could :D and because he wanted to EAT. Difficult to make him wait until 7AM AMPS. He can feel his bg drops.

Have a good weekend!
 
:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

:cat: Go But-ter, Go But-ter, Go But-ter....:cat:

He's been walking around more today so I need to watch his bg closely. :eek: Now that he's less sleepy I think he's bored too. :rolleyes:

Game on!
 
When Butternut's numbers track as they have since his dose increase - closing on on going below 40 at this moment which = reduction, does it mean the increase is too much, wasn't needed, or what? If the only reason he doesn't go under 40 is because I"m here feeding and feeding him, is that what he needs going forward - to risk going to low? This is where I get confused about this stuff.
 
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no he isn't. :eek: I just gave him smashed kibble. He loves it and is purring happily. maybe that'll boost him down the road while the karo props him now.

what dose should I give him tonight?

I could also just have him start the day with higher carb food? Seems like he needs the carbs and the insulin... though a lesser dose, maybe.

I'd like to use the raw plus some canned varieties I know he likes but these all need more carbs. what can I add to these foods to raise the carb%?
 
I don't giving dosing advice but others will come along who do.

I can lurk a bit longer but do have to go out. Have a bit of work to get done first and am watching for a post on another thread.
 
Red & Rover (GA) said:
I don't giving dosing advice but others will come along who do.

I can lurk a bit longer but do have to go out. Have a bit of work to get done first and am watching for a post on another thread.
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thanks. I'll keep feeding him but eventually he'll be stuffed.
 
That 65 looks better. No more food for now. You want to see which way he is headed without a food influence.

I'm out the door as soon as I re-bandage my toe. Holler for help if need be.
 
Did he have any symptoms when he went lower? If not, it's not a hypoglycaemic episode. He just went low. We do different things when people say hypo. It would be a 911 situation. Small thing but different and big reactions :)

Remind me but has Butternut been DKA before?

I'm not comfortable giving dosing advice in this situation. But he technically hasn't earned a reduction since you're following the 1 year FD rule but it is a long time to be in the 40s. @Wendy&Neko @Chris & China (GA) @Sienne and Gabby (GA) What do you think?

Edit: Oh shoot! I didn't see the 39. Yes, reduction time!

Also, anyway you could include that rule in your signature or SS?

Dandelion said:
his bg had a similar pattern after raising to 1.5 units.
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It might also have been a bounce breaking cycle with extra momentum. Similar to when you increased to 1.5 units.
 
Crista & Ming said:
Did he have any symptoms when he went lower? If not, it's not a hypoglycaemic episode. He just went low. We do different things when people say hypo. It would be a 911 situation. Small thing but different and big reactions :)

Remind me but has Butternut been DKA before?

I'm not comfortable giving dosing advice in this situation. But he technically hasn't earned a reduction since you're following the 1 year FD rule but it is a long time to be in the 40s. @Wendy&Neko @Chris & China (GA) @Sienne and Gabby (GA) What do you think?

Edit: Oh shoot! I didn't see the 39. Yes, reduction time!

Also, anyway you could include that rule in your signature or SS?



It might also have been a bounce breaking cycle with extra momentum. Similar to when you increased to 1.5 units.
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I mentioned that this was similar to the increase to 1.5u upthread. I started feeding him more and more carb foods after that.

no DKA

I didn't see symptoms like weak legs that he's had before but he wasn't walking around either. He was in the chair sleeping.
 
So he's back to 1.5 units, then? Harbor Freight has calipers in stock locally. I may be able to get some tonight but probably won't figure out how to use them before next dose. The store is 45 minutes away so maybe I have to wait until tomorrow --- Up in the air right now esp since I need to watch Butternut for awhile too.
 
Dandelion said:
He was in the chair sleeping.
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It's hard to know since one of the symptoms is lethargy. Ming was walking around last night and went to my mom for food when he was at 27 :nailbiting::nailbiting:

Then once, when he was down in the 20s again, he was napping against the window with his face smooshed up to it and I was taking photos. Then I took a BG and SURPRISE! Ming hands me a 20. :nailbiting:

Dandelion said:
So he's back to 1.5 units, then? Harbor Freight has calipers in stock locally. I may be able to get some tonight but probably won't figure out how to use them before next dose. The store is 45 minutes away so maybe I have to wait until tomorrow --- Up in the air right now esp since I need to watch Butternut for awhile too.
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That will be the new dose, unless someone says otherwise. But depending on what happens in the rest of the cycle, someone might recommend a temporary reduced dose to maybe drain the cycle. It helps that Butternut hasn't had DKA so a skipped shot would be okay to do.
 
Dandelion said:
When Butternut's numbers track as they have since his dose increase - closing on on going below 40 at this moment which = reduction, does it mean the increase is too much, wasn't needed, or what?
Click to expand...
After looking at Butternut's ss, I don't see the increase as too much and unless one is close to seeing all greens on a spreadsheet I wouldn't say the dose is not needed. I also don't see this as a calipers needed/inaccurate measuring situation. Personally, I'd go with the "or what".

"Or what": Butternut's last dip into double digits was on 7/31. At this stage, the bounce was 'due' to break tonight (PM cycle on 8/3). The way I interpret B's spreadsheet is the dose was increased too soon (last night) as well as on a high before a break. Increasing on a high before a break added some oomph onto the dose (increasing on a bounce breaking cycle, as Christa previously mentioned). That added momentum sent Butternut low today.

I see something similar when the dose was increased to 1.5 unit on 7/27.

So, where to go from here? Personally, I would go ahead and take the reduction to 1.5u and increase when necessary. Until you're seeing more consistency, allow at least 5, if not 6 cycles, for a bounce to clear before increasing the dose. Note: this will change, but I think waiting for the bounce to clear is your best bet for now. Don't be fooled by a perceived need to increase the dose when you see high(s). Butternut has now shown us he's one of those cats who may sometimes throw a high before a break.

Also worth mentioning...
*usually* testing every 15 minutes during a low number event does not allow enough time for the HC or HC gravy to take effect. You might want to go to testing every 20 minutes if you're nervous... eventually testing every 30 minutes. Generally speaking it'll take 30 minutes to see a marked improvement.

The exception to the above is ultra low numbers (30s, 20s, and below). When kitty drops that low the idea is to pull those numbers up as quickly as possible using whatever is necessary (usually syrup). That's when you want to test every 15 minutes to make sure kitty's BG numbers are indeed coming up and not going down. If one sees BG numbers continue to drop it's time to get kitty to an ER.



Make sense?
 
Jill & Alex (GA) said:
After looking at Butternut's ss, I don't see the increase as too much and unless one is close to seeing all greens on a spreadsheet I wouldn't say the dose is not needed. I also don't see this as a calipers needed/inaccurate measuring situation. Personally, I'd go with the "or what".

"Or what": Butternut's last dip into double digits was on 7/31. At this stage, the bounce was 'due' to break tonight (PM cycle on 8/3). The way I interpret D's spreadsheet is the dose was increased too soon (last night) as well as on a high before a break. Increasing on a high before a break added some oomph onto the dose (increasing on a bounce breaking cycle, as Christa previously mentioned). That added momentum sent Butternut low today.

I see something similar when the dose was increased to 1.5 unit on 7/27.

So, where to go from here? Personally, I would go ahead and take the reduction to 1.5u and increase when necessary. Until you're seeing more consistency, allow at least 5, if not 6 cycles, for a bounce to clear before increasing the dose. Note: this will change, but I think waiting for the bounce to clear is your best bet for now. Don't be fooled by a perceived need to increase the dose when you see high(s). Butternut has now shown us he's one of those cats who may sometimes throw a high before a break.

Also worth mentioning...
*usually* testing every 15 minutes during a low number event does not allow enough time for the HC or HC gravy to take effect. You might want to go to testing every 20 minutes if you're nervous... eventually testing every 30 minutes. Generally speaking it'll take 30 minutes to see a marked improvement.

The exception to the above is ultra low numbers (30s, 20s, and below). When kitty drops that low the idea is to pull those numbers up as quickly as possible using whatever is necessary (usually syrup). That's when you want to test every 15 minutes to make sure kitty's BG numbers are indeed coming up and not going down. If one sees BG numbers continue to drop it's time to get kitty to an ER.



Make sense?
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It's starting to. My thoughts yesterday AM were to hold his 1.5u and see how things played out because he was doing ok except in the early AM. I then overrode everything including my gut and the rest is history. Thanks for the instruction and dosing advice. :)

I'm a long way from an ER so I'll usu get after a low even if it's in the 40s. :nailbiting:
 
Jill & Alex (GA) said:
After looking at Butternut's ss, I don't see the increase as too much and unless one is close to seeing all greens on a spreadsheet I wouldn't say the dose is not needed. I also don't see this as a calipers needed/inaccurate measuring situation. Personally, I'd go with the "or what".

"Or what": Butternut's last dip into double digits was on 7/31. At this stage, the bounce was 'due' to break tonight (PM cycle on 8/3). The way I interpret D's spreadsheet is the dose was increased too soon (last night) as well as on a high before a break. Increasing on a high before a break added some oomph onto the dose (increasing on a bounce breaking cycle, as Christa previously mentioned). That added momentum sent Butternut low today.

I see something similar when the dose was increased to 1.5 unit on 7/27.

So, where to go from here? Personally, I would go ahead and take the reduction to 1.5u and increase when necessary. Until you're seeing more consistency, allow at least 5, if not 6 cycles, for a bounce to clear before increasing the dose. Note: this will change, but I think waiting for the bounce to clear is your best bet for now. Don't be fooled by a perceived need to increase the dose when you see high(s). Butternut has now shown us he's one of those cats who may sometimes throw a high before a break.
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5-6 cycles or 5-6 days for a bounce to break? 7/31 to 8/3 break is 6 days or 12 cycles? I read there are 12 hours per cycle, 2 cycles per day. Is this correct?
 
Dandelion said:
5-6 cycles or 5-6 days for a bounce to break? 7/31 to 8/3 break is 6 days or 12 cycles? I read there are 12 hours per cycle, 2 cycles per day. Is this correct?
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nevermind, I was looking at the last lime green event on 7/28 and counting from there.
 
To clarify: You don't want to increase the dose as the bounce is breaking, nor do you want to increase on a high before a break because of the added momentum they'll place on an increased dose. Until you're comfortable recognizing those things, the safest thing to do is to hold the dose for 5-6 cycles after the last low.

That said, you don't always have to wait for a bounce to clear before increasing the dose... you just don't want to increase when the bounce is breaking or on a high before the break. You should see a pattern emerge on his spreadsheet now that you know where to look. That's one of the beauties of maintaining a spreadsheet!

1 cycle = 12 hours
2 cycles = 1 day
6 cycles = 3 days

Good luck! :)
 
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