? 8/4 - Milo AMPS 263, +2 218, +4 180, +6 108, +7 84, +8 109, +11 109 - Using AT Meter

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by Danielle & Milo, Aug 2, 2015.

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  1. Danielle & Milo

    Danielle & Milo Member

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    Jul 31, 2015
    I everyone! I posted a few days ago about my newly diabetic kitty Milo. It has been a very long few days and I am completely stressed, overwhelmed and feel helpless at this point.

    Here are the important details for Milo, before I begin recapping the past few days.

    Milo is 2 years old, diagnosed in June 2015. His last vet trip he had ketones as TRACE still in his urine. I recently took him OFF the Hills Prescription Dry Food m/d. He know eats Fancy Feast Classics Pate with Pure Bites Chicken Dog Treats sprinkled on top. He is on Lantus (One unit, twice daily). His dosages have changed at least 4 times in the past 2 weeks. He was originally on one unit, once daily. Then was on 2 units once daily. Then 2 units in the morning and one unit at night. Now he has been on 1 unit, twice daily. Tomorrow will be his 3rd day on this dosage of one unit, twice daily. I shoot him at 7:30am and 7:30pm. I use the Alpha Trak testing meter.

    Here is a recap of the past few days:

    Friday, July 31st

    -BG test reading: 509 at 7:30am - Gave 2 units of insulin
    -BG test reading: 360 at 11:15am
    -BG test reading: 266 at 7:22pm - Gave 1 unit of insulin
    -BG test reading: 177 at 10:13pm

    Saturday, August 1st

    -BG test reading: 134 (His lowest number since on insulin) at 7:15am - SKIPPED INSULIN DOSE!!!!!!!
    -BG test reading: 342 at 12:30pm
    -BG test reading: 427 at 7:20pm - Gave 1 unit of insulin
    -BG test reading: 291 at 12:00am

    Sunday, August 2nd

    -BG test reading: 394 at 7:15am - Gave 1 unit of insulin
    -BG test reading: 224 at 12:30pm
    -BG test reading: 636 at 7:15pm (His HIGHEST number he has ever been since diagnosed)
    -BG test reading to determine if false reading: 641 at 7:20pm - Gave 1 unit of insulin

    ***I think his numbers could be high today because we were dog sitting and he HATES dogs and never again will we be dog sitting. So Milo was crouching around all day from smelling the dog but he has been acting like himself other than that!

    ***Milo has also been throwing up. He threw up this past Friday and then tonight he threw up right after eating (He tends to eat too fast too)

    ***I will be testing again at +2 (9:30pm)


    At this point I do not know what to do anymore and any advice about Lantus would be greatly appreciated. I really thought Milo was taking a good turn and then he got into the 600s and I do not understand why.

    My vet originally told me to do 2 units twice daily but I thought that was too much for him.

    HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I am beyond depressed being new to all of this, the cost of all of this and emotionally drained with not know what do to anymore for him. I am not ready to lose my baby and will do whatever it takes to get him regulated. My husband and I are suppose to go on vacation in 2 weeks but if we cannot get him regulated that will not be happening.

    I am DESPERATE for help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2015
  2. Chris & China

    Chris & China Well-Known Member

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    May 10, 2013
    Looks like Milo is bouncing Danielle, which is frustrating, but a normal part of the sugardance. We don't have any way of knowing how long Milo was diabetic before he was diagnosed, so his body may have become used to living at higher numbers, so when he dropped to 134 yesterday, his liver reacted by releasing stored sugars and hormones to bring him back up fast. He ALSO didn't get a shot yesterday morning, so he basically has to "start over" at filling his depot. He'll need to be kept on the same 1 unit dose at least 6 cycles (unless he drops below 68) before we'll REALLY know how well the 1U dose is working.

    Bounces happen for any (or all) of these reasons
    1. going too low (like under 68 on the AlphaTrak)
    2. dropping quickly...over 50 points an hour is a very fast drop
    3. dropping lower than their body has gotten used to living at

    As they get into "normal" numbers more and more, the bouncing usually settles down, but some kitties bounce all the way to OTJ (Off The Juice) What's important is learning to identify when they're bouncing, and just holding the course.

    As soon as you get your spreadsheet up and running, it'll really help to start to see it and we'll be able to help you learn what it's telling you
     
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  3. Danielle & Milo

    Danielle & Milo Member

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    Jul 31, 2015
    Thank you for all of that information! So starting today at the one unit twice daily dose (since today was the first day of that) I need to do 5 more days of the same dose even though I skipped we have to start over? I take him back to the vet on Thursday and I know I will be in trouble since I did not do what the vet said.
     
  4. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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  5. Danielle & Milo

    Danielle & Milo Member

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    Thank you BJM! Those documents were helpful and I believe that Milo is definitely "bouncing."
     
  6. Chris & China

    Chris & China Well-Known Member

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    May 10, 2013
    Since you've been giving insulin for a couple of weeks, you only need to hold the dose for 6 cycles (Unless he drops below 68) IF you decide to do Tight Regulation.

    TR gives the best chance at remission, but isn't for everyone. It is important to get at least 4 tests in per day though....before shooting (the Pre-shot) and one mid-cycle during the AM cycle and at least a "before bed" test at night. Most cats go lower at night, so if the "before bed" test indicates it's important, you may have to set an alarm to get more tests in later in the night.

    The SLGS method is a little different....You'd decrease the dose if he dropped below about 120 (since you're using the AT). Dose adjustments are only made once a week, but it's important to still always get the Pre-shot numbers (and any others you can get...if you work and can't test during the day, the night tests are even more important) and at least once a week to do a curve (every 2 hours for 12 hours or every 3 hours for 18 hours)

    Lantus dosing is based on how LOW it takes them, so we're always watching for that
     
  7. Danielle & Milo

    Danielle & Milo Member

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    Jul 31, 2015
    ***UPDATE****

    Milo's +2 reading at 9:30 was 594 (So 47 points down)

    When should I retest again?????
     
  8. Danielle & Milo

    Danielle & Milo Member

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  9. Danielle & Milo

    Danielle & Milo Member

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    Jul 31, 2015
    Chris - So how do I know when to skip a dose, at what number on the Alpha Trak? I skipped yesterday morning at 134, should I have shot him 1 unit of Lantus?

    Is it okay to prick his ears this much?
     
  10. Danielle & Milo

    Danielle & Milo Member

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    UPDATE****

    Milo tested 367 at +5 (He came down!!!!!)

    Will test him at 7:30am
     
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  11. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

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    Jan 14, 2015
    It is, yes. A lot of us go through times where we're testing more than that again, especially on days when our cats might drop low. I tested anything up to 18-20 times a day some days and Rosa had no ill effects from it - and her ears aren't at all damaged.

    As regards your question about skipping the dose - personally, I'd have skipped too on a 134 as it's the first time he's given you a low pre-shot. For me that would have been too low for comfort this early in the sugar dance with him, but I'd be interested to see if others agree. :)
     
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  12. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    Oct 6, 2010
    See my signature link Glucometer Notes for some feline specific reference numbers to help guide you.
     
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  13. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Until you've gathered enough data, the recommended 'no shoot' number for an Alphatrak is 230 mg/dL / 12.8 mmol/L.
    .
     
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  14. Bojangles' Mom

    Bojangles' Mom Member

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    Jul 30, 2015
    As far as the high numbers, if you were indeed pet sitting a dog, stress could do it. My kitties readings were in high 500s and 600s at the vets. Tests at my house have all be mid-300s or lower. I will be doing a glucose curve with her on Friday when I'm off from work. She's on 1 unit 2x/day of insulin - vet lowered this from 2 units as her readings dropped significantly while at the vet - higher numbers were immediately after arrival (stressful car ride, vet took her to an exam room without me, did a different blood test) she then had a 375 later in the exam room with me after she'd relaxed some, so vet talked with others and lowered the dosage. She also recommended that I do the glucose curve as it would be more accurate at home (unstressed) than if I left her at the vets all day (stressed - higher readings).

    I've also seen that if you have a dry food addict and are transitioning to wet food throwing up the new wet food is pretty common and will lessen. I've experienced the wet food throw ups and we're working on transitioning to all wet food.

    Hints I've seen to help with ear pricks (and they work): 1) baby sock filled with uncooked rice warmed in microwave for 15 seconds (test heat on your arm first) held against ear to help with blood flow and 2) vaseline - a thin strip on the ear will help blood to bead up instead of spread into fur - huge help!
     
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  15. Danielle & Milo

    Danielle & Milo Member

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    Jul 31, 2015
    ***UPDATE****

    Milo has gone up from his last night test to 383 PS. I gave him one unit of insulin and unfortunately got some on his fur so I am not even confident as to how much I got in him. Then I fed him Fancy Feast and he threw up immediately after. I have not seen him drink water either.

    I just do not know what to do anymore. I am beyond upset at this point.
     
  16. Danielle & Milo

    Danielle & Milo Member

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    Jul 31, 2015

    I was not able to pull up the Glucometer Notes.
     
  17. Bojangles' Mom

    Bojangles' Mom Member

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    Jul 30, 2015
    I totally understand, I'm going through the same with Bojangles. She is a grazer and eats throughout the night which I think (but can't guarantee) can make numbers higher in the morning. We get up at 6am and she very well may have eaten just previous to our ear prick. I know that affects humans if you eat shortly before a blood glucose test and would guess it is the same for cats - maybe someone else can weigh in on this??

    This weekend Bojangles had 3 dishes of wet food, plus some of the dry out all at once as I was panicked about how little she ate. I've found if I leave her alone for a while, but occasionally bring wet food to her, she'll eat a few bites. I also have multiple water sources - bowls, water fountains, large "free flow" water storage holders (1/2 gallon tank) so that helps her to drink more too.

    I'd suggest leaving a couple of different flavored food options out. Bojangles definitely prefers fish or liver flavors to chicken. It does sound as though it can take a while to transition from dry to wet (not eating as much as well as the wet food throw ups), so I'm trying to reassure myself that she'll eat when she gets hungry. This has been a very costly transition for us $400 in vet visits, $200+ in diabetic supplies, and about another $100 in food just in the last week alone. Thankfully Fancy Feast was just on sale, so I stocked up to supplement the very costly DM. Read Dr. Lisa's information (some posted here, but she does have another website you can find if you search by Feline Diabetes - http://www.catinfo.org/docs/TipsForTransitioning1-14-11.pdf) she has a lot of information on diets, transitioning to the canned food diet.

    It is hard not to panic and over think things. I don't have human babies, so my furry children are all I have....I'm just maitaining my sanity right now.
     
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  18. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Will it help to know we were all overwhelmed at first? The more information you absorb and more confident you begin to feel, the easier this will all seem. You are already doing the most important things for your sweet Milo: hometesting to keep him safe (so glad you didn't shoot the low pre shot number), change to wet low carb and a good insulin.

    Someone smart once said this sugar dance is a marathon, not a sprint. He didn't become diabetic in a week; you can't fix it in a week. You know the insulin works because he has had good numbers; it is just a matter of learning how to work with it.

    You might post on the Lantus forum and get daily advice on your doses. Everyone there has experience with Lantus and can offer advice and encouragement. Tell them you are using the Start Low, Go Slow protocol (it seems like that is what you have decided on?) and give them his latest numbers. The forum is here

    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/lantus-glargine-levemir-detemir.9/

    Be sure to read the stickies at the top of the page - they are full of great info.

    Can I set up a spreadsheet for you? It is a great color coded tool that lets you share Milo's history of doses/levels with your vet and with people here, when you need dosing advice. It is something the Lantus forum will want you to have. If you want me to do that, just click on my picture and send me a note in a private conversation (as I'd need an email and you don't want to post that in the forum)

    Some one early on told me to remember to breathe and it proved to be good advice. Also, you might get a smile out of this letter from a diabetic kitty:

    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/letter-from-your-kitty-to-you-during-this-time.131186/
     
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  19. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Jun 16, 2014
    It helps to repeat this mantra:

    My little one needs me. It will get better. It will get easier. I can do this.

    This sugar dance can sometimes be a case of 'fake it till ya make it'. ;)

    :bighug:


    Mogs
    .
     
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  20. Danielle & Milo

    Danielle & Milo Member

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    Jul 31, 2015

    Thank you so much! Your information and that sweet letter from a diabetic kitty helped me out so much!!! :)
     
  21. Danielle & Milo

    Danielle & Milo Member

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    LOVE THIS!!! You have no idea how much I needed to read this!
     
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  22. Danielle & Milo

    Danielle & Milo Member

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    Thank you! It is good to know that I am not alone but sorry that you are having a hard time as well. I have lots of water out and about and I leave their wet food out for awhile they like to come and go and eat. I have two kitties and no children so they are my children!
     
  23. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    I have every idea, Danielle. This time last year I spent the whole day repeating that to myself. ;)

    It truly does get easier. I promise. :bighug:


    Mogs
    .
     
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  24. Danielle & Milo

    Danielle & Milo Member

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    Jul 31, 2015

    THANK YOU!!! I just made myself feel better by ordering more lancets and test strips, well my wallet did not like it but my kitty is worth every penny!
     
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  25. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    That's the idea, Danielle! Every little action you make to help Milo get better will bring you some comfort and reassurance.



    .
     
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  26. Danielle & Milo

    Danielle & Milo Member

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    Jul 31, 2015
    I tested Milo at +3 and he was 414
     
  27. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    Hi, Danielle - Did you try giving him a little more food after he vomited, say 15 min. or so later? Did you feed before you shot? As the way you wrote it above, looks like you shot, then fed.

    Sequence should always be:
    Test/ feed/ shoot. (If pre-shot # is high enough to shoot, that is!)
    If 1st pre-shot # is not high enough: Wait 15 min & test again (often it rises). Then if high enough, do the above. (You may have to do multiple tests ...)

    I sometimes had to do 3 to 4 pre-shot BG tests before Bat-Bat's BG would rise high enough to shoot. Sometimes it just didn't. After an hour of repeated tests without ample BG rise, I would have to skip the dose. (Temporarily too high is generally safer than too low!)

    Regarding the vomiting of a meal: Does Milo tend to eat too fast? A few tricks to help avoid "scarf & barf" ---
    1) Add a little water to his meal (slows him down.)
    2) Elevate his feeding dish. I put Bat-Bat's plate on top of a shoebox - the perfect height for her! (Helps when they are not eating nose-to-floor.)
    3) When he's halfway through his meal, pick up the plate & let him take a 5-minute "food rest." Then let him finish.

    Don't worry, all of this will get easier & less stressful to you over time. You're doing fine! :bighug:- Robin
     
  28. Danielle & Milo

    Danielle & Milo Member

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    Hi, I gave him more food after he threw up and he kept it down. I shot while he was eating, not before he ate. He doesn't always eat before the shot and I was told that we don't want him to eat 2 hours before we shoot. He tends to be too high than low and now he is high. His last BG was 414 and that was at +3. I add water to his dish already, he does eat fast! I will have to try the elevation!

    I hope this gets better :( I am trying to stay calm I know that is most important too! Thank you for your tips!
     
  29. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    It's totally fine for you to shoot while he is still eating.

    Re: "He doesn't always eat before the shot and I was told that we don't want him to eat 2 hours before we shoot." After you check his AMPS/PMPS blood glucose, he NEEDS to eat right before you administer insulin. Not after you shoot it; before. What you'd heard about not eating two hrs. before administering insulin means that you do not want him eating in the two-hour window before you check his glucose at AMPS or PMPS, as having food in his stomach then will give you a a food-elevated blood glucose reading - which could result in you administering insulin when you should not.

    You want to test his pre-shot glucose level when he has an empty tummy, but you do not want to shoot insulin on an empty tummy.
    So always have him eat before a shot of insulin. (Again, injecting him while he's eating that meal is ok, too.) Have I clarified this for you?
     
  30. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    By the way, great job in replacing the food he'd barfed right after his shot of insulin. That's exactly the way to handle it!!! :)
     
  31. Danielle & Milo

    Danielle & Milo Member

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    yes this makes sense :) So much info to remember :(
     
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  32. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    If your schedule permits it, try giving Milo his preshot meal in two servings with, say, a 5-10 minute pause between to let his food go down better. That's what I'd try.

    .
     
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  33. Jan Radar

    Jan Radar Well-Known Member

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    Jun 27, 2015
    It is a lot to remember but you are doing a great job trying to absorb it all. :)
     
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  34. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    Yes, how well I know! The first time Bat-Bat was diagnosed, I was petrified:nailbiting:, confused:confused: AND sleep-deprived:arghh: ... :coffee::coffee::coffee: ;)
     
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  35. Danielle & Milo

    Danielle & Milo Member

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    Jul 31, 2015

    I can work from home this week to give Milo my full attention. So at 7:00pm I will test, fed in 2 feedings, and shoot at 7:30pm?
     
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  36. Danielle & Milo

    Danielle & Milo Member

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    Thank you! I just want to get him regulated! I have journals I keep on him and that will help me do his spreadsheet tonight/
     
  37. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    I just checked the link using my smart phone (Android-based) and was able to open it in a new window. Let's see if we can figure out why you can't.
    What device are you using?
    PC
    Macintosh
    IPhone
    Smart phone
     
  38. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Jun 16, 2014
    That's great news, Danielle. It will definitely do a lot for your peace of mind.

    Are you working on a spreadsheet for Milo yet?


    EDITED TO ADD:

    Cross-posted! Glad to hear you're working on Milo's spreadsheet.

    In the meantime, after you've taken Milo's evening preshot BG test, pop a note up here with the test result while he's eating his dinner. Might reassure you a little to have someone keeping an eye out in case you have any questions at that time.


    Mogs
    .
     
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  39. Danielle & Milo

    Danielle & Milo Member

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    Iphone
     
  40. Danielle & Milo

    Danielle & Milo Member

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    Jul 31, 2015

    Thank you! I will be doing the spreadsheet tonight if I can figure it out I promise!!!!! I am really hoping someone can help me through this because I am not in a good place with this mentally. I am doing all that I can and I feel like it is no good enough. I am not a negative person but this is turning me into a nightmare! :(

    I will be taking Milo's pre-shot at 7:15pm CST time tonight and then will feed him Fancy Feast Turkey and Giblets Classics and should I post a new thread with his PS BG test or just post to this thread?
     
  41. Danielle & Milo

    Danielle & Milo Member

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    Jul 31, 2015
    My other problem is when I give him insulin sometimes he moves on me and then I miss and it gets on his fur and then other times I feel like I am not getting it into his fat like this morning he got insulin on him and i am not even sure how much insulin I got in him and correctly :(
     
  42. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Jun 16, 2014
    I was in exactly the same state this time last year, Danielle. Saoirse spent several days sprawled and unmoving on the floor. I was terrified. The FDMB community got me through it. They'll get you through it, too.

    You are NOT alone with this, OK? :bighug:


    Mogs
    .
     
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  43. Danielle & Milo

    Danielle & Milo Member

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    Jul 31, 2015

    Thank you so much, I appreciate you and everyone else who can get myself and Milo through this. Hoping his 1:20 numbers aren't in the 500s or higher. He has been sleeping the past 2 hours and ate about 3 hours ago
     
  44. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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  45. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    OK. To recap, you're going to do Milo's preshot test at 19:15 CST.

    You need to make sure he doesn't eat after 17:15 (so that PM preshot test - PMPS - is not influenced by food. (NB - if Milo shows any signs of distress as described in the How to Treat Hypos guide, follow that instead. Unlikely, but for safety I always like to cover the bases.)


    What is your local time right now?

    .
     
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  46. Chris & China

    Chris & China Well-Known Member

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    May 10, 2013
    Here's MILO'S SPREADSHEET SO FAR

    She doesn't have a Google account and has to get signed up for one (which is why she can't see the Glucometer Notes @BJM )

    When she gets the Google account set up, she'll go back and add the numbers she has for the past week or so
     
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  47. Chris & China

    Chris & China Well-Known Member

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    @Critter Mom ...She understands it's TEST/FEED/SHOOT

    Test to make sure he's high enough for insulin, Feed to make sure he's eating "Normally", and Shoot...all within about 5-10 minutes and that she should take food up 2 hours before PS
     
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  48. Danielle & Milo

    Danielle & Milo Member

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  49. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    If you want, I can get your spreadsheet set up in 10 minutes - one less stressor. Check your private conversation.
     
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  50. Danielle & Milo

    Danielle & Milo Member

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    Jul 31, 2015
    ****Update****

    I just BG tested Milo and he is at 547 :( :( I DON'T GET IT!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  51. Danielle & Milo

    Danielle & Milo Member

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    Jul 31, 2015

    Thank you but Chris has is started for me :) but I appreciate the offer
     
  52. Chris & China

    Chris & China Well-Known Member

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  53. Danielle & Milo

    Danielle & Milo Member

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    It is 1:50pm my time right now.
     
  54. Danielle & Milo

    Danielle & Milo Member

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    Jul 31, 2015
    To make it ALL worse and now I am sitting her just crying, I just learned that the vet gave me the WRONG syringes and I have been giving him 2 units twice daily instead of what I thought was one unit twice daily.
     
  55. Chris & China

    Chris & China Well-Known Member

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    May 10, 2013
    OK folks....We've just discovered that she's been using the wrong syringes.....the ones she has are for 100 units and each line is actually 2U so when she thought she was giving 2 units, she was actually giving 4 and instead of 1 unit, she's been giving 2
     
  56. Danielle & Milo

    Danielle & Milo Member

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    I can't do this......
     
  57. Danielle & Milo

    Danielle & Milo Member

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    I feel like I am killing Milo and that I have failed him......
     
  58. Chris & China

    Chris & China Well-Known Member

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    You are NOT killing him and are NOT failing him!! It's NOT your fault!! I strongly believe it was probably the pharmacist and your vet not making the script for syringes clear enough

    NOW that we know, we can move forward with the correct information and help you learn to help Milo!
     
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  59. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Nope. You are on a steep learning curve, trying as fast as you can to learn all you can. Now that you know, you can get him on the right dose. And then see how things stand. It's possible that too much insulin gave him higher numbers and that a lower dose will drop him down. Lots of people have their cats put to sleep when they get the diagnosis. They failed their cat. You have not.

    And our theory here is that higher numbers are always safer than lower ones.

    You have a lot of people here holding your hand. You aren't alone. We'll help you figure it out.
     
  60. Chris & China

    Chris & China Well-Known Member

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    May 10, 2013
    I have corrected the spreadsheet to show the actual dosage

    It's no wonder Milo dropped so much on 7/31!! Your "gut instinct" that told you not to shoot that 134 probably saved Milo's life (or a big vet bill) so your gut instincts are right on!!
     
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  61. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Learning all the diabetes info is definitely a struggle at first. You should be proud of yourself for working at it. There are many people who would not even try, and would just euthanize the cat.
     
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  62. Jamie N Gizmo

    Jamie N Gizmo Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2014
    We've all been there..done this..i overdosed gizmo constantly for months before i did a curve..and put the pieces of the puzzle together. He was dropping in the 40's and bouncing up into the 400s... Milo was playing the other day..he knows you're trying to help him. You're in it together..as partners. I know its very frustarting...you have to take it an hour at a time, one test at a time or you'll get overwelmed. You're doing great! you were already home testing by the time you came here, which is wonderful!
     
  63. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Danielle,

    You will be able to do this. You love Milo and that's why you hunted out this forum. The supportive, knowledgeable, experienced people here will help get you over this hump. Your vet made the mistake, not you. (I know it probably doesn't feel like that right now, but it's the truth. You did not screw up. Your gut instinct prompted you to find help and you have. This is a good thing.)

    Again I say it is overwhelming at first, but it really will get easier - and more quickly than you realise right now.

    Hang in there. There is an awful lot to take on board in the early days, but this is do-able. And as others have commented above, you are head and shoulders above a significant majority of people whose cats receive a diabetes diagnosis and choose not to treat it. You are saving Milo.

    :bighug::bighug:
     
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  64. Danielle & Milo

    Danielle & Milo Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2015
    So on 7/31 this is what he got:

    PS BG: 509 - Gave 2 units of insulin (But was really 4 units)
    BG: 360 at 11:15am
    BG: 266 at 7:22pm - Gave 1 unit of insulin (But was really 2 units) - My vet recommended 2 units twice a day and that would have been me giving him a total of 8 units total in a 12 hour period
    BG: 177 at 10:13pm

    The next morning his BG PS was 134 and this is when I decided to give him NO insulin!
     
  65. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2015
    Hi Danielle, I'm still a newbie at this too, my kitty was diagnosed a little over a month ago. We still go through some weird numbers that I don't understand the cause of, and I still spend a lot of my waking hours worried about Squaallie's BG going too low, or wondering why it's gone up so high. The second week after he was diagnosed he spent almost every day vomiting up his food, because his system was trying to adjust to a more normal BG. I know so well that feeling of "I just can't do this!"but trust me, you CAN. Milo is depending on you, and you can do this! It's daunting and frustrating, and things still happen that I don't always understand, but all the people here at FDMB are so incredibly knowledgeable and supportive. Listen to their advice and encouragement, and they will help you more than you can imagine. So take a deep breath and hold on, it's going to be a bumpy ride, but so very worth it in the end! Hugs to you and Milo!
     
  66. Danielle & Milo

    Danielle & Milo Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2015

    Thank you so much for the kind words. Sounds like our kitties were diagnosed about the same time! I hope you are hanging in there too! I just went shopping and got all supplies for Milo and the CORRECT syringes that he should have had in the first place. I feel better knowing I am on the right track and bought everything that I need. I am all set. Now its up to Milo's body! Prayers to your baby too.
     
  67. Danielle & Milo

    Danielle & Milo Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2015
    I am on track!!!!!!!! I went to the store and got the CORRECT syringes this time, got Ketone strips, and more canned food for my baby. I am HAPPY to announce that Milo happily went downstairs with me to give me his first at home ketone reading. He was peeing and I stared at him and he looked at me like I was crazy! LOL I waited till he was done and then stuck the test strip in the pee puddle and tried not to get any litter on it. For the first time since his diagnosis and assuming I did the test right, he was NEGATIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!! When he was first diagnosed he was +1 for 2 days which put him in the hospital. 2 weeks ago he was TRACE at the vet office now he is NEGATIVE! This was a small victory that I needed after a not so good day. I am getting ready to test Milo in about an hour and do his insulin. I am expecting his numbers to be high tonight since I got a fur shot this morning :( I have to get tonight's injection RIGHT! I will update later tonight! Wish me luck!
     
  68. Danielle & Milo

    Danielle & Milo Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2015

    Thank you so much for this sweet comment! I really needed this! I will do WHATEVER it takes to save my baby and Diabetes will not WIN!
     
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  69. Shiloh & Rhonda (GA)

    Shiloh & Rhonda (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2015
    You got this Danielle!
     
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  70. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Atta girl! :)


    .
     
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  71. purrdydolly

    purrdydolly Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2014
    That's the spirit Danielle - keep those diabetes boxing gloves on, it will get easier and you will win the fight for regulation :bighug:

    As soon as your spreadsheet is up and running I suggest you mover over to posting in the lantus/levemir support group forum. We'll get you guys sorted :)
     
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  72. Brashworks

    Brashworks Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2015
    You go, Danielle - really, you are doing really well! TG you noticed about the syringes!! You are a wonderful Mom to Milo and I promise you, newbie to newbie, this does get easier!!!

    :bighug::bighug: Big hugs for you and a scritch for Milo. We are all rooting for you!
     
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  73. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2015
    I follow my kitty around the house hoping to catch him in the litter box to test him for ketones, then when he "assumes the position" I wave the test strip around under his nether parts. He looks over his shoulder at me as if to say, "Lady, have you completely lost your mind?!?", lol! And you'll get tonight's injection right, have faith :). I gave a fur shot to Squallie this morning, it happens sometimes, just gotta shrug it off and try not to repeat it tonight!
     
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  74. Danielle & Milo

    Danielle & Milo Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2015
    ***UPDATE*****

    I tested Milo PMPS and he was 514 (he came down at least from the prior test) and then tried to get him to eat before shooting and he wouldn't! :( I had no choice but to shoot and then he ate immediately after little booger!

    I gave him the insulin and NONE got on the fur this time! YAY!!

    Questions for you all:

    1.) What happens if your kitty on Lantus will NOT eat before you shoot?
    2.) Where do you give your insulin at on the kitty? Scruff, flank, abdomen, etc? Do you tent or roll?
    3.) How often do you feed your kitty?

    I am getting read to test at +2 to see where he BG is at.

    I hope this is a turning point!

    THANK YOU ALL for the sweet messages they sure do help me get through my tough days!
     
  75. Danielle & Milo

    Danielle & Milo Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2015
    Milo's +2 was still too high, 501
     
  76. Brashworks

    Brashworks Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2015
    Hi Danielle - well done on the shot!

    I've only just switched to Lantus from Caninsulin and my girl eats no problem so I'm afraid I can't answer your question #1. I believe the insulin needs something to "work with" but I'm not well versed in what to do. I hope someone more experienced can tell you.

    #2 - I rotate the shot location and I've added a couple of columns on my spreadsheet to remind me where I last shot. I tent. I'm lucky that if I put a teaspoon of food down, it distracts her while I'm shooting

    #3 I feed Genghis right when I test - with Lantus I believe you should feed within 15 minutes of shooting. She has a small snack midday when the pet sitter comes (I'm also getting an automatic feeder for her so I can feed smaller meals throughout the day as many cats on Lantus do well this way). I feed her a token snack (¼ can) when I get home from work so I have at least 2 hours with no food before testing at PM.​

    I've been told, especially if I have a number lower than usual at pre-shot and, to take a +1 reading. The BG should be going UP at this point, and it gives me a better idea if I need to steer her with more food (i.e. with an unexpected drop in BG) or feed her a higher carb food (i.e. much bigger drop than I'm used to seeing) and/or stay with her to monitor.

    A +2 and a +6 should give you an idea of how Milo is responding to his insulin (except when he's bouncing, this I have no experience with). Spot checking at different times, if you can - I understand you're working from home this week so you could vary the times) will fill in gaps and help you understand how the Lantus is working in his body.

    You may be tempted to increase the dose if you get a high pre-shot - don't do it!! I believe Lantus needs consistency. Whatever dose he's on should be held for at least a week (if you are following SLGS, which I am) UNLESS his lowest reading falls below 90, which calls for a .25 reduction. I was terrified to shoot Genghis when she gave me a reading of 170 (and if you don't have enough data, 200 is the cutoff for no-shoot) but I stayed the course and tested like crazy and I have a greater comfort level of how Genghis is reacting - see her spreadsheet for this weekend and today. THIS MAY BE DIFFERENT FOR MILO. When you have your spreadsheet set up it will make more sense - trust me this is an invaluable tool and very important if the more experienced members are going to be able to give you any dosing advice.

    There are other considerations for low pre-shot numbers - see the sticky notes in the Lantus/Levemir section. I know it's a lot to digest but I promise it will make sense. Milo's situation is different because of the mixup with syringes and it may take a while for the higher dose to "clear" his system. I really think someone more experienced can help you with that.

    Good for you getting through this. Knew you could do it!
     
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  77. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2013
    Danielle - It is SO obvious how very much you love your Milo, how thoroughly committed you are to learning everything you possibly can, and how absolutely determined you are to heal him & beat back diabetes that it really touches the hearts of all of us here! You & Milo WILL get there!!!
    :bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
  78. Danielle & Milo

    Danielle & Milo Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2015
    POSTED MILO'S SPREADSHEET!!!!!!!!!!
     
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  79. Jamie N Gizmo

    Jamie N Gizmo Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2014
    when you wake up tomorrow, can you do me a favor and get a couple tests in the first couple hours from the shot..like +1-+3? I'd like to see exactly how fast he's dropping. As the spreadsheet fills in the puzzle pieces, we'll start to see it come together.
     
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  80. Danielle & Milo

    Danielle & Milo Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2015

    Yes! I will do a +1 and +3

    I am home all week so if anyone else wants to help me and ask me when to test I can do that!
     
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  81. Danielle & Milo

    Danielle & Milo Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2015
    HELP!!!

    Someone said on my Lantus forum that I SHOULD be using the U100 syringes and not the U30 ones? See their comment below:

    Danielle & Milo said:
    He was on the U100 instead of the U30 but I bought the right ones tonight. I shot a fur shot this morning so his numbers have been high today and tonight we start his 6 cycle over with 2 units twice a day for the next 3 days (6 cycles).

    Person from other forum for Lantus:

    "Would you clarify this for us? You should be using u-100 syringes. Those go with Lantus & Levemir, both U-100 insulins. This is really important."
     
  82. Chris & China

    Chris & China Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    You ARE using U100 syringes!! The difference is that these syringes will only hold a MAXIMUM of 30 units...the other ones would hold 100 units

    U100 insulin just means there are 100 "pieces" of insulin in a mL....the "U" means a different type of "Unit"
     
  83. Danielle & Milo

    Danielle & Milo Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2015

    Sorry :( I'm bad at this can't you tell?
     
  84. Brashworks

    Brashworks Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2015
    I don't think so at all! You ask questions, you learn, you get better and better. Just think where you were a few days ago!
     
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  85. Danielle & Milo

    Danielle & Milo Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2015
    I guess at least I ask questions and know what questions to ask! I'll be a pro a lot feline diabetes soon enough!
     
  86. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2013
    Don't fret, Danielle - it's all very confounding at first. Lantus is an insulin first developed for human use; you use U100 syringes with it. (These syringes can hold a maximum of 30 units of U100-type insulin.) I'm just trying to understand what actually happened earlier; if the vet gave you U100 syringes to use with Lantus, these are the correct syringes.
    (Were you confused by the unit markings down the side of the syringe?)
     
  87. Chris & China

    Chris & China Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    @Robin&BB ..U100 syringes also come in different sizes...some ONLY hold 30 units...some hold as much as 100 units....the syringes her vet/pharmacist gave her were U100 syringes that would hold 100 Units of insulin, which are fine for humans that are using 30-40 units at a time, but no good for sugarcats.

    Each "line" on the syringe was 2Units....there were 50 "lines" on the side of the syringe

    The ones she is using now hold a maximum of 30 units and have half unit markings
     
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  88. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2013
    @Chris & China - Thanks for clearing that one up for me, Chris! (Perhaps the vet had the large-capacity syringes for treating diabetic horses??? o_O Good grief!)
     
  89. Chris & China

    Chris & China Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    He wrote a script for "a box of U100 syringes".....so he wasn't specific enough and the pharmacist probably just grabbed the box they sell most of
     
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  90. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2013
    @Chris & China Ok ... I got lost when (in an earlier post) Danielle referred to "U30 syringes" ... so I thought at first she'd meant U40-type that are used for ProZinc, Vetsulin, etc. - and that perhaps she had simply mistyped in that post, hitting the "4" on her keyboard instead of the "3." Anyway, NOW I get it: The vet wrote a (kinda sloppy) Rx & the pharmacist filled, it not realizing it was for a small animal.
     
  91. Danielle & Milo

    Danielle & Milo Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2015
    Milo's AMPS was 253 and now he is eating!

    DO I SHOOT???? HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!

    He gets 2 units twice daily and I only have 10 minutes to make a decision and have someone help me!
     
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  92. Tiger(GA) and Ruth

    Tiger(GA) and Ruth Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2014
    No dosing advice from me, but I think you should probably change your topic heading- GA is for those kitties who have crossed the Rainbow Bridge.
     
  93. Danielle & Milo

    Danielle & Milo Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2015
    That was an accident.
     
  94. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2013
    Hi, Danielle - I see on SS that you shot him - good! (General rule = no shot under 200.) You'll want to test around +3 to where he's heading. Did he eat his full ration for you this morning?
     
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  95. Danielle & Milo

    Danielle & Milo Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2015

    Hi Robin! Yes I shot 2 units this morning only 20 minutes past his normal shot time. I am testing him at +2 to see where he is at. He ate 3/4 of a can of FF before his shot and then a little more after his shot so he is covered on food! He did really good on eating!!!! I always give him a chicken treat after his shot
     
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  96. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2013
    Excellent! You might want to approach today in mini-curve fashion, as you're looking for his nadir. (That was a very good pre-shot # he popped this morning, btw.) Usually (and I emphasize "usually" because every cat's different) the drop on Lantus is a bit softer than on, say, ProZinc - but that said, we don't know what Milo does after a 263 AMPS. The important thing for you to remember is that hypo-zone is less than 50; he has lots of margin left here so far. You're doing fine: Just don't panic when he starts dropping (i.e., unless he's suddenly dropped to around 60 or less, I wouldn't feed him because you're trying to see - by testing more frequently today - how his pancreas is processing the insulin). Will be interesting to see his # on the next test! Does that make sense? :)
     
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  97. Danielle & Milo

    Danielle & Milo Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2015
    ****UPDATE****

    YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Milo was 218 at +2! I am so glad that I shot this morning! I will test him again at +6.

    Today is a GOOD day!!!!!!!!!!
     
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  98. Danielle & Milo

    Danielle & Milo Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2015

    This makes TOTAL sense! I just posted his 2nd BG test below. at +2 he was 218! I gave him a small treat. I will not feed him again until 7:00pm tonight just before I shot him for his second dose of insulin. My ACT NOW number will be 68 and I know I have some wiggle room at that number before he would drop to 50 and below. I already have a hypo kit prepared for today in case it happens!

    I will be testing him again at +6 unless you think I need an earlier test?
     
  99. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2013
    I would test @ +4, too. (You might consider a little cuddle or scritch under the chin as reward after test instead of a treat. Really, even a dinky treat can muddy the BG waters when you're trying to locate nadirs. Just sayin' ...) :p:bighug:
     
  100. Danielle & Milo

    Danielle & Milo Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2015


    I just decided I will do +4, +6, PMPS, then +6 :)

    Ok I will resort to a kiss on his nose instead of treats for today!
     
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