8/6 AMPS 172 - no shot? Joined 7/20/14 - IBS & diabetes

Hello everyone. I am dealing with a newly diagnosed Maine Coon kitty, about 2 or 3 years old. He weighs 14.5 lbs. I adopted him in Dec 2013 from our local shelter. He arrived with a bad case of irritable bowel syndrome, and our vet put him on metronidazole and prednisolone, which did bring the IBS under control. He was also prescribed ID dry kibble, which we feed 1/3 cup 3 times daily. We were concerned about long-term use of the steroid, and had him weaned down to 1/8 of the 10mg pill every other day. He was drinking 3 cups of water daily. I had asked our vet about the possiblity of diabetes, due to the water consumption, but was told it was caused by the steroid. Finally, on June 20 2014, he urinated on a pile of sheets headed for the laundry, and we took him back to the vet. That's when he was diagnosed with diabetes - with a BG of over 600. We got him back home 5 days later on a regimen of 4 units Humulin N 2x daily, and strict feeding times - but still on the prescription ID kibble. He was not diabetic originally.

Now, thanks to finding this forum and also the one on Facebook, we are wanting to get him on low carb wet food, and hopefully get him into remission. However, our first questions to our vet about home testing were not encouraging. Still, we are convinced we need to learn to do this. We are also not sure if he is on the best insulin. We are hesitant to make diet changes for fear of triggering the IBS again - so this is complicated. We have him on Vitality Science's Feline Comfort, which is a powdered digestive support product, and it was apparently instrumental in getting the IBS under control in conjunction with the meds. We mix two teaspoons with water and about 1 teaspoon of wet canned food, 2x daily, and he really loves it. Every thing I am learning stresses the importance of low carb wet food and home testing - so I think we know the direction we need to take.

More info - he now drinks only 1 cup water each day - plays more and also sleeps more than he ever did before being put on insulin. He is a happy cat so far - and we hope to keep him that way. His BM's are normal too.

 

Re: Just joined July 20

Welcome to FDMB,

Unfortunately a lot of vets either will not mention home testing, or are against it. I think its a way to pocket extra money or to fulfill their god complex. There is no reason not to home test, and it is extremely beneficial for you and your cat. It seems intimating at first but with patience, diabetic friendly treats, and a warm rice sock it isnt that bad and becomes pretty simple over time. All you need to do is buy a cheap human meter (you DONT need a pet specific meter-I fell for that one lol) most here, myself included, use the relion brand and a few other supplies. The benefits of home testing are knowing how the insulin is working, knowing bg before giving a shot to avoid a hypo incident, less stress on you and your cat of having to go to the vet. Stress and illness can drastically increase bg so the number you get from the vet could be a lot lower.

As to the insulin, most here will recommend Lantus, ProZinc, Levemir, and BCP PZI are all good insulins to use and last about 12 hours per shot. Humulin, unfortunately, is not one of them but every cat is different. I am not familiar with treatment of IBS in cats and diabetes so hopefully someone will chime in with knowledge. As to the food, we all recommend canned only, switching is only recommended when and only when home testing since it can effect bg greatly. Do a search on here for IBS you might find some helpful posts.

 

Re: Just joined July 20

Thanks for the reply (do I call you Hidey or Dirtybirdsoaps? LOL) We will be getting a meter and supplies and starting to learn how this is done. We have watched a Youtube video that explained how to get the blood sample - so I think we just dive in. My husband is also diabetic, but not on insulin yet. We are well aware of the importance of low carbs, and have been keeping his diabetes fairly well controlled for over 20 years with diet, and in recent years metformin and now glipizide. I guess those oral medications are not feasible for cats.

 

Re: Just joined July 20

prednisolone can cause the diabetes. If you taper it or stop it home testing is very important. If you stop it it he may go into remission for the diabetes. However, you still have to treat the IBD, Also, you may not want to change to a low-carb canned if special food is required for the IBD

 

Re: Just joined July 20

My name is Samantha. I am still a recent newbie. Hidey was Diagnosed at the beginning of the year and went off insulin within a few months because of the people and advice on this site. If I took my vets advice Hidey would still be on insulin, or I would have killed him by injecting him with insulin when it wasnt needed. Its sad to say that even though my vet is still the best I have been able to find over the years, she still is not a great vet. She was against most of my decisions that I have made for him, including insulin type. Luckily she just let it be instead of us arguing.....too much lol. I did a quick search for IBS and found a couple things but dont hold me to it since I have no education on it but I seen some posts stating that Raw diets can help, don't know if this is an option.If you can't make it yourself I know you can purchase raw cat food, and another thing I saw was slippery elm bark. Don't forget the diabetic friendly treats for testing it helps a lot. Most here use freeze dried chicken, you could also use baked or boiled chicken or even tuna.

 

Re: Just joined July 20

What is the wet food you're currently using to mix this? Does it affect his IBS at all? That might be an option to switch him over to. There are quite a few people with cats who have IBD/IBS and are diabetic, so there are diet options that work for both conditions. You might want to change the subject of your post and mention the IBS to get their eyes on it to help you. To do this, go to your first post and click "Edit" and then change the subject to something like "Newly diagnosed IBS cat with diet questions" and click "Submit."

 

Re: Just joined July 20

Greetings!

My Skooterbear also has IBD and was on dry food for basically his entire life (Royal Canin HP). I had resigned myself that Skooter would never be able to be off his RX food and would just be a high dose insulin dependent cat. Thanks to the awesome support of everyone here, he started to transition to wet food for a week or so and then on July 11 for his PM cycle he went to all wet and his been on all wet since. He was up to 5u twice daily and now is down to 2u. He has only had on instance of vomiting and everything else is going great!

I went with Nature's Variety chicken for his food and he loves it. As soon as he hears the can or the fridge open, he comes out from where he was to see what momma has for him

Eventually I would like to get him to an all raw diet. Nature's Variety has a frozen raw food that I will be transitioning him to within the next month or so. I also belong to a Facebook web site for IBD cats for raw feeding. Between that facebook site and this awesome site, Skooter is doing amazingly well. I don't think he would be doing this good if it weren't for them.

I am far too new to be giving advice, but this is what seems to be working for Skooter so far. There is hope! I never thought Skooter would ever get OTJ, but now, I see it as maybe a possibility, which I never thought before.

 

Re: Just joined July 20

Thanks for the encouraging news. Monkey has been off the Prednisolone for a month (he was taken off while at the vet being diagnosed with diabetes - but by that time we had been weaning him for over two months). We will be learning how to home test and getting a meter this week-end. I was just able to create his spread sheet, thanks to the excellent instructions on this board. Once we are competent with that, and with our vet's blessing (not obtained yet), we will begin the transition to totally wet food. After learning about the low carb wet foods, we are starting with Halo canned "Spot's pate" chicken, which he is loving and doing well with his tiny 1 tsp. servings 2x daily.

 

Re: Just joined July 20 - IBS and diabetes - dealing with bo

Hi just jumping in here when Trey was first Dx my DH was doing the testing and I was a basket case ....hate needles . He was always tell Trey how sorry he was he had to do this and was stressed himself..lucky for me and Trey he got called away for a few days. Well cried and pulled up my big girl panties ..took lots of deep breaths and never say you are sorry. They feel your mood...you are stressed and sorry then they feel it is wrong and they don`t want it done. You have to be very calm and surround yourself with beautiful white peaceful light. wrap kitty in a towel and say we are going to help you feel better will only be a smill pick...do it let her go treat done!!!!! 1st time I tried took 5-6 pokes most never touch the ear was so scared did the above and sap done Trey never felt a thing...shortly after that he became my cat. even today he got up on the table laid on his towel and waited for me...I just throw his towel over his shoulder a comfort thing I guess. Its all about your mood...if you can remain calm and then so will try it what do you have to lose....Hugs and peaceful white light and healing green light surround all you furry one and peeps. Hugss Kath

 

Re: Just joined July 20 - IBS and diabetes - dealing with bo

Thanks for all the wonderful encouragement Kath and Trey. My DH ( see, I'm learning!) has totally mastered the shots (while I just hold the food). We have both watched the Youtube presentation about drawing the blood from his ear - that will start for us soon. All of you on this board are a God send. Thank you barely covers it.

 

Re: Joined July 20 - IBS and diabetes - dealing with both

Practic testing and injecting on an apple. The skin gives a decent simulation of the effect as the needle or lancet poke through.

And try testing yourself to practice getting the droplet on the strip and reading the meter. Note: for the squirmy cat, catching the droplet on a clean fingernail will give you time to get the test strip pushed all the way into the meter and then touch it to the droplet to get the reading.

 

Re: Joined July 20 - IBS and diabetes - dealing with both

Thanks for the apple suggestion BJM. My husband is diabetic and is used to drawing blood from himself - but a cat's ear is a whole different ballgame! We are not having any trouble with the insulin injections - that is going alone just fine. We have reviewed the glucometer recommendations shared here, and are going to get the ReliOn from Walmart tomorrow, along with lancets and test strips. We'll buy an apple while we're there too. I would never have thought of using an apple.
Thanks for the suggestions.

 

Re: Joined July 20 - IBS and diabetes - dealing with both

The Relion Confirm or Micro only needs a tiny drop of blood, 0.3 microliters. The Relion Prime needs a larger drop of blood, 0.5-0.6 microliters. In the beginning, it can be difficult to get a blood drop. I'd suggest going with the Relion Confirm or Micro. Once you gain skills at getting that blood drop, you might consider switching to the Relion Prime for the lower cost of the test strips, 1/2 the price of the Confirm/Micro.

Please also pick up some larger gauge lancets, the 25-28 gauge ones labeled for alternate site testing have a larger pin for poking. Makes it easier in the beginning to get that blood sample.

The How To's of Testing Keys are warming the ear and treats as a reward to gain cooperation from your kitty.

Psyching out your cat or how to get him to accept the test process (AKA Ear Testing Psychology by member Kpassa)

 

Re: Joined July 20 - IBS and diabetes - dealing with both

I have so much information now, most of it printed out, I will be putting a binder together in order to keep my notes where I can find them. I feel like I have been attending IBS/diabetes cat college over the past few days!

One thing I have not found mentioned, for those with IBS issues, is cat litter. We have always had cats - just never one with IBS/diabetes - and we always used the clay clumping litter we can buy at Costco. When I first started to learn more about the IBS, I found a site that discussed the problems with clay litter. Since it always sticks to the cat's feet if they happen to step in wet clay, they have to lick it off when they clean their feet. So some of it ends up in their stomach and intestines. We all know just how sticky that stuff is when it is wet. Also, apparently the dust from it has been responsible for killing small kittens, since as they scratch around and breath in the dust, it also coats their lungs.

So a month or so ago we started looking for an alternative litter. We settled on Blue Buffalo Naturally Fresh litter, which is made from ground up walnut shells. It is not harmful if ingested, and it clumps very well. It has a pleasant odor and the box is easy to scoop. We have Monkey's IBD under good control, and I think the litter change helped.

Today is the day to go shopping for all the home testing supplies. We are armed with a ton of notes and "how to"s - so we are diving in. We will also be approaching our vet about switching to a low carb kibble, such as Hill's MD instead of the ID, and also trying to switch completely away from dry eventually. I hope he will be supportive of all we want to do.

 

Re: Joined July 20 - IBS and diabetes - dealing with both

Yup, it does feel like that sometimes. I've equated learning about feline diabetes to a graduate level crash course. There is lot's of info available here, so keep asking questions and read posts from other people.

You might consider rereading some of the information posted, since we know you can't absorb all that information on the first read through.

Have we talked about the 5 P's with you yet or have you seen them in another post? They are Peeing, Pooping, Preening, Playing and Purring. Combine these into a report along with how your cat's appetite is and you have the WCR or Whole Cat Report. It's one way to track the progress of how Monkey is doing.

Hope we can help you get your kitty Monkey feeling better.

 

Re: Joined July 20 - IBS and diabetes - dealing with both

Thank you for your concern. Yes, I have read about the "P"s - and also a ton of other very important information. I have printed out so many pages, both from this board and other web sites, that today I made up a binder with tabs to help me organize all I have learned (am still learning!). I have been intensely studying all this ever since I joined this board last week. We didn't make it to town today to buy a meter and testing supplies - I think I was worn out from all the study and organizing! So the plan is a trip to town tomorrow to get set up with a meter and supplies, so we can learn how to test at home. I have read lots about that and watched every video I can find - so I realize we will be scared and nervous but also know it is important to take our time, relax, and don't worry if at first we don't succeed.

Also, I posted some information this morning about using walnut based litter, for those like us who have a kitty with IBS as well as diabetes. Being new to this board, I didn't think about making a new topic for that - but perhaps I should have.

 

Re: Joined July 20 - IBS and diabetes - dealing with both

:RAHCAT :RAHCAT :RAHCAT Just want to give you 3 cheers for going in the right direction. Monkey is on his way to a much healthier life style. I will say when I first started to use the info from these angels instead of my vets....she was not happy and not on board. So you may get some slack from your but I put it this way my baby and I have a gut feeling about this so no I will not do it your way. She then said well if you don`t want to listen to me maybe you don`t want me for his vet and I stood my ground and said Maybe you don`t want to be our vet.....she backed down and said well try it your way and if you need me call. So we left it at that....she wanted to give him 3 units twice a day and no home testing. With the help and all the info of these sweet angels here at FDMB Trey was off the insulin in 2 months. My vet told me job well done ,you did a great job. This time when Trey came out of remission after 3years 8 months she said well do as you did last time start him slow .25u and I will be here if you need me. I share his spreadsheet with her and so that's how we stand....she is a good vet but when it comes to diabetic cats this is the place. Hugs and beautiful green light to Monkey for a safe and into remission....yes get rid of all dry food even 7-8 treats sends Trey`s numbers what up . Hugsssssssssssssss Kath

 

Re: Joined July 20 - IBS and diabetes - dealing with both

Hi Kath and Trey
I can see it is necessary to have the courage of your convictions - and it certainly has been right for you and Trey!

My first conversation with our vet tech yesterday was somewhat ambivalant - when I said we want to get a meter and learn to test, she did offer to order the animal meter for us - so that is a positive reaction. But when I asked about switching him from dry ID (for IBS) to dry MD (for diabetes), she agreed to order it but was concerned about trying to change his diet. I then told her our goal is to wean him off dry food entirely, and I could tell she was quite concerned that we would cause the IBS to flare up. I declined to have her order the more expensive animal meter for the time being - we just want to get the ReliOn to start with while we learn to get the blood sample. Perhaps we would consider the animal meter at a later time - however, everything I read on this board indicates it is not necessary to have the animal meter. I think we will just need to learn what the differences are in the meter readings, and how to interpret them.

We are going to ask for copies of all his records, from his initial hospitalization in January 2014 with IBS, followed by a bout of upper respiratory infection, and then again in the hospital for diagnosis of diabetes in June 2014. We have a two fold reason for wanting his records - we are thinking of taking a two or three week trip in our motor home to Oregon, and of course Monkey will be with us. So we want his records in case of a problem out of town. Also, we have spoken with a local vet (her husband is a professional acquaintance) who is extremely supportive of home testing - and best of all, she does house calls instead of having an office. So the ideal combination would be if we could get the best of both - Dr. Sarah for in home support - and our regular vet Dr. David for hospitalization if needed.

Monkey has an appointment August 4 with the vet to stay overnight for his 1 month glucose curve tests. We think after that we will be ready to discuss our plans for him with our vet, and see how it goes with him.

 

Re: Joined July 20 - IBS and diabetes - dealing with both

All I can say is wow :razz: you have everything covered. Awesome job .....yes I do have all my cats records when they get any blood work I always get a copy. As far as meters go people meters are great ..cats blood works the same I am in Canada and use Free style meter and strips Trey is on Lantus I get the pen cartages 5 for 125.00 I think but will last over 6 months.Strips are most of the cost being 77.00 for 100 .I wish you all the best and with FDMB you should have him in remission in a few months. Dry food is one of the biggest problems so Trey gets none only pate can food for him ,no gravy and chicken for treats. Not happy about it but 3 of my cats do get dry food because they eat so little can. Anyway if anyway I can help just ask but here you have all the things and angels to help. One other thing when they have a curve done at vets they may be stress so the BG is higher so always better to home test and do your curves at home. Once you start and breath :YMSIGH: as long as you are calm and never say your sorry to him confused_cat ...he will think you are doing something wrong :lol: cat(2)_steam Just ok here we go just a pick there you go ...done and feed him.... Hugs and tons of healing green light (((Monkey))) and family :smile:

 

Re: Joined July 20 - IBS and diabetes - dealing with both

Yes, our members in Canada are fortunate to have much lower costs for the good Lantus insulin then us in the US. The flip side is that the meters and especially the test strips are more costly in Canada. Some of those Canadian members even make trips across the border to pick up the Relion test strips at Wal-marts here in the US.

I never had a cat with both diabetes and IBS but I've had cats with these conditions. My IBS cat was on the Hill's Z/d which just made her sicker and sicker. Then our vet had us try the 'Novel protein' route. A bit better but still not quite there. I then tried a grain free food for my IBS cat and that did the trick. For her, the brewer's rice or any rice was a major trigger for flaring up her IBS. My point is that sometimes you just have to experiment a little with the food changes to find what will work for your cat with the 2 health conditions.

I have read from other members here that their cats do better on a raw food diet. That would be good for the diabetes also, nice and low carb. So a raw diet is something you might consider.

 

Re: Joined July 20 - IBS and diabetes - dealing with both

Hugs and grateful thanks to all of you on this board! With your encouragement, we have successfully tested two times! YAY! We got the ReliOn Micro yesterday, and were able after a few missteps (just minor ones, and Monkey is a very patient kitty) to get our first reading. We were better at it today - getting a technique down. We put him on my DH's lap, with me beside him and cradling Monkey from behind, scratching his cheeks (which he adores). He was purring through the whole process!

We bought a variety of the recommended low carb 100% meat cat treats yesterday, and tried one of them out. He vomited it along with his afternoon kibble. It is the Halo freeze dried Liv-a-Littles chicken breast. I just crumbled it up yesterday and sprinkled it on his kibble. This morning, I soaked it first in warm water and that worked a lot better. He actually ate the tiny slivers as his reward treat after his test, and so far, no vomit.

I put his two test readings on his SS this morning. That SS is really great - it even does the color coding for you.

I tried to add one of the cute little smilies to this - but I just got words. I don't know how to do that. So I'll just say "Hurray - we did it".

 

Re: Joined July 20 - IBS and diabetes - dealing with both

You guys are awesome :smile: before you know it you will have everything in order and Monkey will be on his way to the Falls (blue numbers) and then on his way to (green) and into remission. Tons of healing green light ((Monkey))) to add smiley faces just click on the one you want and yes writing and thinging show up but when you post its a facey Hugssssssssss Kath :YMSIGH: cat_pet_icon :RAHCAT :RAHCAT :RAHCAT dancing_cat dancing_cat cat_pet_icon

 

Re: Joined July 20 - IBS and diabetes - dealing with both

Hello all. Kath, I am also learning something new every day - from this wonderful board. Last evening I was reading a post from someone who mentioned using the rubber finger guards you can buy in office supply stores. She said that she wears one when testing, so she doesn't have to worry about accidently sticking herself. She also said the blue rubber guard sometimes catches a usuable blood droplet when she thought she had missed! So it's off to the store to find those little blue finger guards! :idea:

On another post, someone had shared the most extensive list of things I've ever seen to take along when traveling with a diabetic cat. Since we hope to make a trip next month with Monkey, I will definitely take advantage of that list. flip_cat flip_cat

And last but not least, I have added some smillies to this post. I'm loving this place! drinking24

 

Re: Joined July 20 - IBS and diabetes - dealing with both

Wow Monkey your mama bean is a fast leaner.....you are in safe hands me thinks... :lol: Now where do you find all those cool smiles I love them.....Yes you will find almost everything you need here!!!! <3 pc_work party_cat drinking09 ohmygod_smile I found them Thanks and tons of healing green light to (((Monkey))) and of course all sugarbabies here....Hugssssssss Kath

 

Re: Joined July 20 - IBS and diabetes - dealing with both

Good morning team! I have a request today. First, some good news. Monkey's BG this morning was 161 - the first lower reading since we began home testing the evening of July 27 2014! It took us by surprise - we weren't expecting it.

So as I was recording his reading on his SS, I happened to notice the SS notation in the upper right corner had the word "private". I thought that was wrong, so I clicked on it and changed it to "share with anyone who has the link". Was that the right thing to do? Could someone please check the link to be sure you can see it?

As I mentioned, the lower reading was a surprise to us. We have been introducing Halo "Spot's Pate" ground chicken for a week, but only one one teaspoon mixed with his Vitality Science Feline Comfort. We give him this while we are injecting his insulin, not his veterinary prescription Hill's ID dry kibble. Then we wait a few minutes, and give him his ration of 1/3 cup of the kibble. It seems too soon to see any effect from the good canned food - but who knows? confused_cat

As real newbies at all this, and at 7AM when we can't call our vet (who doesn't yet know we are home testing), we made the scary decision to reduce his insulin from 4 units to 3.5 units. I hope we did the right thing. nailbite_smile

 

Re: Joined July 20 - IBS and diabetes - dealing with both

I can see it!

I am new to all this as well, but I have heard stories about the wet food making drastic (positive) changes to the BG. That is why they suggest when using insulin to do the transition slowly.

You can see on Skooter's spreadsheet, the week before 7-11, he was having a mix of wet and dry and then on 7-11 he went completely wet....you can really see the difference!

He went form 5u of insulin to 4u of insulin when he had the mix of wet and dry and went down to 2u the night he went to all wet food. He did need to jump up to 2.25u for awhile, but has since earned two reductions so down to 1.75u BID.

Have you selected a Insulin Support Group to join yet? It looks like you might be ready to switch over to one of those.....

 

Re: Joined July 20 - IBS and diabetes - dealing with both

flip_cat flip_cat cat_pet_icon dancing_cat (((Monkey))) looking great!!!!

 

Re: Joined July 20 - IBS and diabetes - dealing with both

Thanks to you Molly for the suggestion to consider joining one of the insulin forums, and the feedback about Monkey's SS.
And thanks to you,Kath, for all the kind support and happy happy icons! :YMHUG:

Monkey has an appointment tomorrow with his vet for an overnight stay to get an insulin curve. We'll see what we learn from that! His numbers are definitely dropping, and we are substituting more of the canned Halo ground chicken in his daily feedings, and a tad less of the dry kibble. We're hoping his vet will get on board with us on this plan. If not, we will switch to our local house-call vet, who does support our plans. We'll be missing Monkey tomorrow - we're already trained on his daily routine! :YMSIGH:

 

Re: Joined July 20 - IBS and diabetes - dealing with both

Is there a reason the curve is being done at the vet's clinic vs at home since you are home testing?

 

Re: Joined July 20 - IBS and diabetes - dealing with both

Just saying vet curve is a waste of money when you are all ready doing it at home just bring him your ss info that's all my vet needs .... :razz: confused_cat (((Monkey))) my cats get upset with the car ride and the vets so as few visits as I have too make there :razz: Kath

 

Re: Joined July 20 - IBS and diabetes - dealing with both

Hi Molly and Kath - the reason we decided to keep the appointment with the vet and have him do this first curve is (1) we are still a bit shaky about the testing, and having to do it so often in one day is a bit daunting; and (2) we want to find out if he is supportive of what we are trying to do, ie change his diet from the Hill's dry I/D kibble to the high quality low carb canned food we are introducing slowly; and (3) they will check the glucometer we are using against theirs, so we will have a reference about our readings.

Also, we need copies of all his records so that we will have them with us if we take our motor home trip in August up to Oregon, in case we need to see a vet on the trip.

If it turns out this vet is not supportive, we have the option of switching to the home-visit vet we have talked with but never met. She does support the diet change and is also supportive of home testing.

Last but not least - one of the posts I saw here on this board (don't remember whose) mentioned a medication called Epizyme, which is a digestive enzyme for cats with IBD. So we are asking him if that might be appropriate to have for Monkey.

So we should learn a lot from this visit - and then in the future we will be ready to tackle doing the curve at home when it is needed.

Thanks for thinking of the cost though - you are totally right about the expense!

 

Re: Joined July 20 - IBS and diabetes - dealing with both

Please see my signature link Glucometer Notes and print it out to take i8n to your vet.

Human meters read on a different scale than pet-specific meters, so there's really no point in taking yours in to compare to the vets. The chart in my link has the info your vet needs.

 

Re: Joined July 20 - IBS and diabetes - dealing with both

There really is not an active support group for Humulin/Novolin users. There just aren't that many people that use it for their cats, since Lantus, Levimir and Prozinc all work better in cats.

Just not a lot of experience here on the board anymore with those NPH type insulins. You're probably better off to stay in the Feline Health forum.

 

Re: Joined July 20 - IBS and diabetes - dealing with both

Hello team - you are all such great friends and such a big help - I can't express how much it means to have your support.

Monkey is still with the vet. He was there overnight last night, and will be there again tonight. The reason for the delay is two-fold.

The night before we took him in, he had an "accident" on our bed. He urinated there after my DH carried him in to sleep with us. We think it's possible he needed to go and didn't get to make it to his box because he was picked up. But nevertheless, we asked the vet to test for a UTI. So today, it took most of the day before he gave a urine sample, and the lab results were not available yet when I called to see about picking him up late this afternoon.

The second reason, is yesterday they found his BG readings at 300 and also over 400 - so they increased his insulin dose from 4 units to 5 units. Today, they found him with a BG of 70 - which was somewhat due they think to him not eating as well as they wanted - but still a worry. So the vet wants him there again tonight so they can keep an eye on him and see if they need to re-evaulate his insulin dose.

They report he is acting normal and purring and asking for pets (tail up and happy). He is one of the most laid-back cats they have ever had, accepting everything without complaint or obvious signs of stress. When we adopted him from the shelter last December, one day after having been neutered and spending a week in the shelter, he rode home in his carry-box without a single peep, and settled in here without ever acting stressed by it all. He did have IBS and had to be with the vet for that for over a week immediately - and shortly after that, he had a bout of upper respiratory infection, and had another week with the vet. As a result of all that, we know he was not diabetic to begin with. But after all the medication (including prednisolone for the IBS), the diabetes developed in the past few months.

We will be meeting with the vet tomorrow to discuss all this, and at that time we will ask about switching to one of the more popular insulins. I will also be taking along the glucose conversion chart for human meters provided to us by our dear FDMB members, to help him dicipher the readings from our ReliOn meter. If necessary, we are willing to buy the animal glucometer, which they say has adjustments to be used on either dogs or cats, since as you all know cats test and read differently than dogs.

So, the saga continues! More news tomorrow - hopefully it will be good.

 

Re: Joined July 20 - IBS and diabetes - dealing with both

Also show your vet the color coding on the spreadsheet.

 

Re: Joined July 20 - IBS and diabetes - dealing with both

Will be sending tons of prayers and healing green light to surround (((Monkey)) to keep him safe and get him home soon....Angels to guide your vet to the right path.... :YMHUG: o cat_pet_icon :YMSIGH: Hugs Kath

 

Re: Joined July 20 - IBS and diabetes - dealing with both

Yay - Monkey is home!! :RAHCAT
His insulin dose has been increased to 5 units. His metronidazol dose is increased to 2 per day, in case of a slight UTI. We gave the veterinarian's assistant a full packet to give to our vet, of the information gathered mainly from this site and several of the links to veterinarian protocols. We will be meeting with him next Wednesday to discuss the next steps.

We also provided a printout of Monkey's spreadsheet, and the info on how to interpret readings from our ReliOn meter. According to the tech, our vet is open to any and all suggestions, and appreciates our efforts to become informed. We are very hopefull we will get his blessings to help us transition to a full wet food diet and a switch from Humulin N to ProZinc insulin.

While Monkey was there, he was tested repeatedly with both their meter and ours, and we have the results of all those tests, which I will be incorporating into Monkey's spreadsheet.

Meanwhile, Monkey is happily playing with his toys and enjoying his home. We will take him out to our yard this evening, after it cools off a bit, so he can play in the grass and catch a cricket - (he eats one if he can catch it). We are happy to have him back!

 

Re: Joined July 20 - IBS and diabetes - dealing with both

You said " His metronidazol dose is increased to 2 per day, in case of a slight UTI. "
While Metronidazole is an antibiotic. it only acts in the intestinal tract and and has no effect on any UTI

 

Re: Joined July 20 - IBS and diabetes - dealing with both

I may have misunderstood the reason for the increased metronidazol dose. The tech mentioned his urine had a few red blood cells, which she said could be a result of his diabetes. The metronidazol BID is something he was on since we first got him for his IBS - so perhaps the vet just is taking precautions to keep the IBS from flaring back up while we are dealing with trying to get his diabetes under control.

When we visit with the vet next Wednesday, we'll ask for more clarification about this.

Thanks for your input. :smile:

Today we are dealing with a decreased appetite. I guess it could be from the stress of being at the vet's for two nights. His BG this morning on our meter was 275. To be on the safe side, we got him to eat some of his morning meal before we gave him his shot. We will retest his BG after two hours to see where things are. Otherwise, he is his usual laid-back self, but is purring and playing.

I am going to update his SS this morning with the readings from the vet. Since they took readings with both meters, I think I will try to include both results on the SS. It will look a bit weird I think - but it might be helpful.

 

Re: Joined July 20 - IBS and diabetes - dealing with both

So, taking all the paired tests from your meter and the vet's meter, I get the following differences from the vet's meter:



What meter are you using (please add to your signature) and what meter is your vet using?

 

Re: Joined July 20 - IBS and diabetes - dealing with both

Hi BJM - wow, you're right on top of things! I had to revisit my SS just a few minutes ago (I had a slight headache this morning when I first started entering results). I hope I got it fixed before you took your notes. nailbite_smile

Our vet uses an AlphaTrak meter, and ours is the ReliOn Micro from Wal-mart.

Thanks for all your work. :YMHUG:

 

Re: Joined July 20 - IBS and diabetes - dealing with both

We just tested him at 4 hours after his 7:15am 5 unit shot - we got a 39 reading; retested the same blood spot and got 39 again! We immediately gave him about 2 inches of NutriCal. He is not acting much different than normal - not wobbly, grooming, but sleeping a lot. He did finally finish his morning breakfast of 1/3 cup Hill's I/D kibble a few hours ago - but definitely was not as hungry as usual.

We can't talk to the vet until tomorrow - but we are considering reducing his next shot back down to 4 units, which is what it was prior to his vet visit last week. I did call and leave a message for the vet tech to let her know what we think we should do.

 

Re: Joined July 20 - IBS and diabetes - dealing with both

Remember, vet stress may raise the glucose level from 100 to 180 mg/dL compared to hat it is at home.

Also, the chart I posted is just one sample of paired tests. With more pairs, I can add to that. Typically, since the +/- 20% gets wider as the numbers increase, the potential differences can be more extreme. Once the cat is over the renal threshold, though, the specific number really doesn't matter. You try to find ways to help it go down - diet adjustments to reduce the carbs when possible, insulin adjustments as needed, and some exercise/active play to make the tissues more able to use the insulin.

 

Re: Joined July 20 - IBS and diabetes - dealing with both

We rechecked his BG every two hours after the 39 reading at 11:30am this morning. It was 72 at 1:30pm, and 141 at 3:30pm. He woke up hungry at 3:30pm and finished his breakfast kibble, and 1/2 of his lunch kibble serving - that made a full 1/3 cup kibble total, which is his normal 4pm serving.

Our vet tech returned my call a few minutes ago - she said when his BG was 39, we should have given him 4 inches of NutriCal instead of only 2 inches. She also said unless his evening BG goes above 200, we should skip his evening shot.

The only good thing that is coming from all this today, is we are refining our technique at blood testing! Gotta look on the bright side if we can! cat_pet_icon

 

Re: Joined July 20 - IBS and diabetes - dealing with both

Wow (((Monkey))) if you could get off that kibbles you most likely would get OTJ......just saying I think but an not giving advice ....others people here would know better. confused_cat cat(2)_steam :smile: Awesome going with the home testing doing a great job and just putting in This is the place to get Monkey off insulin sorry but I believe the vet is wrong in increasing dry food......drives his BG way out of whack.... 7-8 kibbles of dry food will drive Trey`s Bg up almost triple.....I know Trey got into the crack just a few days ago and I am sure only a few kibbles there ...brat!!!!! Hugs and tons of healing green light (((Monkey))) Kath :shock: @-) cat(2)_steam cat(2)_steam

 

Re: Joined July 20 - IBS and diabetes - dealing with both

Thanks for all the encouragement! We were aware of the increase in BGs at the vet - and his SS really shows that. I fine-tuned his SS a bit, adding green color for the vet AccuTrak tests to help differentiate it from our ReliOn meter tests. I also added notes to our low BG tests today to help remind us what we did and why. I don't know who created this SS to share, but I am really loving it and very appreciative of having it to use! :thumbup

We're looking forward to our meeting with our vet on Wednesday to discuss changing his insulin from Humulin to possibly ProZinc, and his diet to all canned low carb.

It's been a bit of a scary day for us - but it seems better now.

 

Re: Joined July 20 - IBS and diabetes - dealing with both

Initially, it can be quite intense getting everything under control - diet, testing, shooting, handling low numbers, and monitoring for ketones.

Once you are aware of these factors, and beginning to learn what works for your cat, it starts to become a daily routine. You'll begin to feel more confident in your ability to manage your cat's diabetes and the ineveitable ups and downs that happen, like a food batch change at the manufacturer's causing GI upsets which affect the glucose levels (these generally are rare).

 

Re: Joined July 20 - IBS and diabetes - dealing with both

Whew - you're so right BJM! flip_cat

It was a tough day yesterday - but we made it and learned a lot. We only gave him 4 units last night instead of 5. This morning, he was hungry again and talking and acting normal. His BG this morning was 304. Our vet tech called us this morning to say she checked with the vet this morning and he said to switch him back to 4 units - which we had already done last night! So we are on the same page with our vet about that.

I have printed out a full 1" binder of all the information I have gleaned from this forum and other web pages I have found in the past week. I do have information about ketone testing - but so far haven't tried to do it. We bought the test strips for that at the same time when we bought the ReliOn meter.

We are finding that his Halo canned food, which is very low carb, seems to satisfy his appetite quite well. I think it will be pretty easy to just increase the amount of that (which we are already doing) as we decrease his dry kibble, until he is completely switched over. I have ordered a timed feeder that uses two compartments with ice packs - so once he is off the kibble, we can still manage his feeding times if we have to be away for awhile.

 

Re: Joined July 20 - IBS and diabetes - dealing with both

Today we have something new and good --- I think? nailbite_smile

His AMPS on our ReliOn Micro meter at 7am is 172. His before test treat was about 1/4 tsp reconstituted freeze-dried chicken (which he ate up for the first time while being tested). Then we gave him his 1 TBS Halo Spots Pate ground chicken mixed with a bit of water and 2 tsp. Feline Comfort by Vitality Science. He ate nearly all of that and then seems to be satisfied. I haven't offered any of the kibble - and we have not given him his insulin shot yet.

The chart I have from BJM, if I am reading it correctly, indicates this is the no shot threshold. It's too early to ask our vet - but at 8 AM I will call and ask. We are holding off on his shot until I can ask.

Today is our appointment with our vet this afternoon to discuss changing his insulin to something other than Humulin N - possibly ProZinc? And to get his blessing to get Monkey completely off the dry kibble. (PS - we will be doing that anyway, no matter what).

Yesterday I decided to learn how to create a Google.Doc spreadsheet, so that I would have a place to record all his daily details, food, water, treats, BMs, etc., instead of filling up my little notebook with my scribbles. I think I got'er done! I never knew such a thing existed until I joined this forum and saw the SS for recording BG readings.
So a BIG thank you to whomever created that BG SS for us all to use. dancing_cat

 

Until and unless you have a lot of mjd-cycle data to show it is safe, don't shoot below 200 mg/dL with Humulin.

 

Thank you BJM - it looks like we made the right decison. We did not shoot this morning with the 172 AMPS reading. We rechecked him at 9am and he was at 319. At 7PM, his normal PSPM time he was at 315, so we did give him his 4 units. I think it is a good sign that without his AM insulin, his evening PSPM reading was actually lower, not higher than his 3PM reading. Of course, the margin of error could still mean those numbers are not exact.

We had a wonderful meeting today with our vet. He is 100% behind our plans - he has never had a client as determined as we are, nor as knowledgeable thanks to what we have learned on this forum. He suggests we switch to Lantis insulin once we return from our three week vacation, on which Monkey will accompany us in our motor home. Since we are also dealing with IBD, he is concerned that we might trigger an episode of that - so we are prepared with both high carb Hills I/D, and also low carb Hills M/D, as well as a big supply of Halo low carb Spot's Pate ground chicken canned food. We will just go slowly with the conversion to more wet, less dry, and keep a supply with us of prednisolone in the event (horrors) that we might have an attack of the IBD while we are on the road. nailbite_smile

The new SS I made to help me keep track of what and when we are feeding him as we try to make the switch from high carb kibble to low carb canned is a big help to me. Of course, it is completely customized to our needs - but I thought perhaps I might share it in the event it would be something that someone else could modify and make use of too. I will try to do that tomorrow.

I should add that our vet was amazed at all the information and help we were able to compile thanks to this forum. I hope he will consider sharing it with any of his other clients with diabetic cats. :smile:

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Monkey's got a spreadsheet!!!! :RAHCAT :RAHCAT

And I see from a note you made on that SS, that you are going to switch to Lantus after your trip. You might want to go over to the Lantus Tight Regulation forum (within the Insulin Support Groups) and read all those STICKIES at the top of the forum if you haven't done that yet. Even if you have, more re-reading will help you out lots.

 

Thank you Deb - yes, we were advised by our vet to try Lantus. I am reading a lot about it - and am especially following the posts about Lantus vs Levemir that recently started. It is a lot to think about!

All is on hold for now, as we leave this week-end for our three week trip to Redmond Oregon and the FMCA rally. Monkey has only had one short trip, two nights, in the motor home - so this will be a big adjustment for him. My travel list for him is now at two pages!

I am still fine-tuning the SS I created to track his various food types as we work to switch him over to low carb. I am considering trying to share it but not sure if I should - since I am really new at creating a Google doc spreadsheet. At least, it is helping me track our progress and I can read it a lot better than my squiggly notes! :smile: