8/9 Cinnamon amps #65, +1 #63, +3 #58 Holding, +6 #70, +10 #98, pmps #166 1unit, +2 #150

Discussion in 'Lantus / Basaglar (glargine) and Levemir (detemir)' started by Cinnamon Lover, Aug 9, 2016.

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  1. Cinnamon Lover

    Cinnamon Lover Member

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    Aug 1, 2016
    @Chris & China
    Cinny's numbers are perfect, so I have not given insulin...
    Advice please? Right or wrong?
    Thank you xo

    Cinnamon ate "Pure Balance chicken & sweet potato" this morning and loved it, ate more than she has in a month...I've looked everywhere online all morning and cannot find the carb count and protein count for this brand of food :(
    I've scrolled through several food lists and cannot find Pure Balance :(
    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/conversations/8-8.101982/#message-139422
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2016
  2. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    Right!!! No insulin at those numbers!!

    It looks like the 2 unit dose is definitely too much for her, so when it's PMPS time, let's see where she's at but give no more than 1 unit, OK?
     
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  3. Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey

    Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey Well-Known Member

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    Jul 18, 2011
    Great call, Debra! I think we have our proof that the 2 units is, in fact, too much for her. If it's okay with you, I'll ask some of the veterans to look at your SS and give you our thoughts on what you should do at shot time tonight.

    If you have a chance, here's something that will help us (and you) to see the picture better on the spreadsheet: Even though you didn't shoot, put each reading in a cell that corresponds to when you took it. So the +13 would go in +1 (because the AMPS box is also +12, so the +13 would be one hour later - make sense?), and the +15 goes in +3.

    Please keep us posted on how it's going. We care!
     
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  4. Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey

    Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey Well-Known Member

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    Jul 18, 2011
    Debra, have you had a chance to read the stickies at the top of the Lantus & Levemir page? Do you understand about the depot?
    Here is a great post that explains it, from the "New to the Group?" sticky.

    Please ask all the questions you have. We would like to help you get Cinnamon to a good dose as soon as possible. I'm sure this morning has been stressful for you. Lean on us!

     
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  5. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

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    May 10, 2013
    Just FYI

    Debra doesn't have access to her spreadsheet, so I have been doing my best to keep it up for her

    As soon as I know what the numbers are (and am online) I update it for her
     
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  6. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

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    May 30, 2010
    Why doesn't she have access to the SS? Is there something I can help with to allow her access? Does she have a smart phone or tablet?

    Debra...I'm one of the people Tricia is chatting with on dose so we will get back to you shortly.
     
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  7. Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey

    Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey Well-Known Member

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    Jul 18, 2011
    Sorry, Chris and Debra. I forgot about that. Thanks for helping out like that, Chris.
     
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  8. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

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    May 10, 2013
    All she has is an older Kindle and we've tried a LOT of things @Marje and Gracie

    It won't let her download Google Docs or Sheets....she's working on getting a laptop up and working but so far it's still a work in progress....if you have any idea's, please pass them along!

    Luckily I've been online when she's reported her numbers ....so far anyway...so I've been able to keep it updated as soon as I know what the numbers are
     
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  9. Cinnamon Lover

    Cinnamon Lover Member

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    Aug 1, 2016
    I appreciate all of you and especially @Chris & China for all of the help...Thank you all so very much!! xoxoxoxo
     
  10. Cinnamon Lover

    Cinnamon Lover Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2016
    Cinnamon ate "Pure Balance chicken & sweet potato" this morning and loved it, ate more than she has in a month...I've looked everywhere online all morning and cannot find the carb count and protein count for this brand of food :(
    I've scrolled through several food lists and cannot find Pure Balance :(
     
  11. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

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    May 10, 2013
    Is it THIS, Debra?

    Generally, you want to avoid foods with potato or sweet potato in them....while they aren't grains, they are starches and they break down into carbs
     
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  12. Cinnamon Lover

    Cinnamon Lover Member

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    Aug 1, 2016
    Yes...that's it...but she really loved it...can anyone help me find the carb list for the "Pure Balance" brands?
     
  13. Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey

    Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey Well-Known Member

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    Jul 18, 2011
    It looks like a fairly new food, developed especially for Walmart. There is no nutritional info on their website. I e-mailed them, asking for the AS FED values, but I'm not going to hold my breath until I get them (that's what you need to determine the carb percentage).

    If you can give me the guaranteed analysis from the can for Protein, Fat, Fiber, Moisture and Ash, I can run it through a cab calculator, but the answer we get will be an approximation, because that's what the guaranteed analysis is.

    Unfortunately, all the food lists we have are fairly old (at least 3 years or more). Compiling them was A LOT of work, and updating them is also very time consuming. Many newer foods just aren't on them.


     
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  14. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

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    May 10, 2013
    I was looking....so far I can't find ANY nutritional information on it, even the basics like the GA....only an ingredients list

    Look at the small print and see if they list the "Guaranteed Analysis" ....should have Protein, Fat, Fiber, Moisture and Ash

    There's a Cat food carb calculator you can use

    The GA isn't perfect, but it can give you a general idea if the food is even in the ballpark of 10%.....the problem is with the GA, you're just getting minimums and maximums.....Like just because it has "more than 8%" of something doesn't tell you if it has exactly 8% or if it has a lot more....could have 88% of it
     
  15. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Debra

    I've been looking at her spreadsheet today and a couple things I'd like to mention.
    • Doses are not generally not based on the preshot. We shoot the number we "expect" to see at nadir. Under the two methods we use here, in most cases, we shoot a consistent dose unless a reduction is earned or the numbers indicate that an increase is needed. Once we increase, we hold the dose for a set number of cycles.
    • what that means is you want to shoot the same dose a.m. and p.m. unless she earns a reduction or she needs a higher dose; there are a few instances when we might shoot a different dose on a one-time basis and you'll learn what those are as you here longer
    • It is helpful for those of helping you to have at least one test at night after PMPS; if you go to bed early, a before bed test works and if you are a night owl, I'd suggest a +2 and a before bed. We've had cats that went from 300 to 40 to 300 in one cycle and without that extra test, it would look like the cat needed more insulin.
    • She hasn't earned a reduction from 2u but it's hard to know for certain if she might have gone lower on 2u if you shot the dose consistently; on the days when she has gone into green, you shot 2u the night before so the depot from that could have been affecting her numbers.
    The insulin depot is an interesting concept that many members have a bit of a time understanding. The L insulins are designed to release slowly to allow the long duration they are both known for. When you start shooting or raise a dose because it is needed, a portion of the shot goes to this depot and the rest is used by the cat's body. The effects of the shots are cumulative and that is why we hold the doses. When the dose is correct and the depot fills, the BG will dip lower. Think of it as a bucket that has a hose in it, fills, and then over tops.

    Because of this depot, when you reduce the dose, it takes a while for the depot to drain to the new dose. Therefore, cycles can be active up to six cycles after you reduce the dose. More often, it is likely 3-4 cycles but it depends upon the cat, the dose, the absorption, etc.

    Insofar as what you should shoot now, if you can test, especially at night, if she were mine, I'd try 2u both cycles and see what she does. If you cannot test, in order to be safe, I would suggest you consider decreasing the dose to 1.75u and shoot it consistently until it's clear that she needs less or more insulin.

    Any time you get a number below 150, I would suggest you don't feed her and then post here for help on what to shoot.

    Questions or thoughts?
     
  16. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

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    May 10, 2013
    Hey Debra....I updated your spreadsheet

    With the 1 unit dose you shot tonight, let's just plan on holding that dose and see how Cinny does for now

    Don't increase if you happen to see a higher Pre-shot test....Just hold that 1 unit for at least 6 cycles.....Unless she drops below 50

    The only way we're going to know if she needs more is to hold the same dose long enough to let the depot stabilize and go from there.

    I'll try to explain the "depot" another way...when you shoot, a little of the shot goes to "work" and the rest goes "in the depot" (like a timed released medication) and then the "depot" slowly releases the insulin back into the bloodstream

    Until the depot is "stable", the amount it releases keeps changing, so it's important to let it get stable so it's releasing the same amount every cycle.

    Make sense?
     
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  17. Cinnamon Lover

    Cinnamon Lover Member

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    Aug 1, 2016
    Yes :) thank you xoxox
     
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