? 9/10 Luci AMPS 218, 2+189, 4+152, 6+254, 9+326, PMPS 278,2+260,5+215 Increase time? 13 cycles ...

Yesterday - No lagoon time.

Pretty quiet yesterday...and last night...maybe today she'll get back to her old pattern of visiting the lagoon during the daylight...

I took a lesson from @Rob W. & Emmett and found the analysis of Luci's SS - I think it's kinda cool!
Vines and hugs to all in need today...

 

I hope Luci heads down to the lagoon and surfs today.

 

Hey...I responded to you in my thread! lol. you can actually write your response here if you want. It would make more sense

Just link my thread to yours in case people are wondering.


R

 

We are going high tech here on FDMB! Not sure my old brain can handle it lol

 

Very colorful to say the least.

@Rob W. & Emmett how is it done? What is the app?

 

Yo Luci, get back to business.

~Bubba

 

@Olive & Paula

It's in my thread, post #36. http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...ol-charts-reports-and-pics-am-74-3-67.202704/

But it's part of Google Sheets, "Explore" button. Pretty sure you can only see the explore button on the desktop version of the program.

lol, I had no idea the charts would be such a breakthrough hit!

R

 

I will have to try it. I love learning something new.

 

I just realized I posted my second SS analysis in YOUR thread...sorry about that...not paying attention to what I'm doing...I'd like to post one of those here...love that stuff!!!

 

Haha. That's okay. I don't mind. I wasn't fetching assistance or anything, so my thread was all over the place. Totally fine. Your 1px line chart looks much better though

 

I was looking at Emmett's SS - my goodness you've had an interesting July and August! Shooting all those greens!! Do you find it nerve wracking? I find it very stressful - it's like I'm walking a tightrope because at any minute Luci will take a dive and then she gets a reducie...but I feel like I have to test her constantly -that's when I need one of those sub-dural testers she needs to wear so I don't chase her and poke her ears every half hour or at the very least hourly...I'm just not there yet as far as catching my breath when she goes green. Looks like Emmett however is doing great on his continually dropping dosage. So how do you decide it's time to decrease without that dip (lower than 50?) I never know when to increase, but she gives me the lime green warning that she's ready for a decrease....after all these months still trying to figure this out.

 

Hmm...good questions. Haha. Well, I have dosed a few times with really low preshot numbers. ...I thought it would be fine, and it was but never again will I do that. I think he was at like 45 or 47 or something. I wouldn't advice that.

However, I have done a lot of reading on this from multiple sources (not only this site). I can tell you that in all cases, the cat must stay within the range of a normal cat continuously throughout the day...with a few blips above (that's okay...you'll see maybe 10 blues in Emmett's chart since the end of June).

Now that said, when he was up at 7 units or 6.5 units (read -- "higher dose") shooting a low number was very nerve wracking. If I saw a lime green, I'd reduce immediately at the next dose time. If above 5 units - 0.5 unit reduction -- so 5.5 units to 5.0, etc...); if below 5 units -- 0.25 unit reduction, so 4.5 units -- reduce to 4.25 units. Like you're doing.

When to increase...honestly, Emmett had a lot of bouncing around, just like Luci, he had a few green runs...sometimes for a few days, even longer. But then he'd go back to higher numbers...or not constant green (below 120 I think the protocol says). FYI, right now, Emmett seems to hover between 65-85 most of the time...fingers crossed this continues.

So, in Luci's case her numbers are still bouncy, and she seems to get some lime greens (a few quite low); but if the reduction happens too soon she wont stay in the green range, she'll bounce back up. THe whole idea is to tell the pancreas that these numbers are good (I believe...lol -- pretty sure that's the insulin engine...). If the cat doesn't stay low, then the pancreas just keeps making glucose when it thinks it should. IMO, if corn syrup is given or super high carb food, then this "learning" never happens. When super high carb is given, BG goes way back above 120, and then glucose is all wacky again. I am no trained vet and I just speak from how I've dealt with Emmett -- some people may not agree with me too (I have made mistakes as well...like I speak above...too low -- don't dose). I use to test like crazy (since June - max history for contour application, I have 656 readings lol -- and that's me doing less readings) -- I'm probably up to 1500-2000 readings at least, contour app doesn't store my older readings.

Anyway, I'm usually dosing above 60. I have dosed and would continue to dose between 50-60 (and do a +2 or +3 reading). I mostly always do a +3 or +4 even to this day.

Don't dose below 50 (like I did once -- very nerve wracking) ...if below 50, wait 20 mins, check BG, if above, I'd personally give normal dose. I have done this waiting thing and I honestly don't think it's beneficial. From my experience this only delays the insulin injection, allowing the numbers to rise too much. Lantus injection doesn't start on-setting for at least 2+ hours, so if you wait to inject the curve and carry-over from the last dose diminishes and this onset happens too late allowing the BG to rise between the two.

I know it's nerve wracking, but imo, a dose when low is what needs to happen to get the cat on track. When Emmett was low and high dose, I'd inject, feed, wait an hour (time for work), do a reading...if his BG's had risen, thank god, I'd go to work, if they were close to the same or lower, I'd have to work from home. No choice. 100% of these times, Emmett managed to level out for the day. And a lot of times, wound up having super high numbers...but if that happened and he didn't stabalize to green, another increase in units was required.

So, with any increase you want to hold for 8-10 cycles, but I would say if cat is still getting high numbers or sporatic numbers at 8 cycles, another increase is in order (0.5 above 5 units -- 0.25 if below 5 units). I've even upped after 6 cycles...but that's not required...slow is better than risky moves.

At any rate, they advise on here to wait AT LEAST 4 cycles for the previous dose to level out and into the higher/lower dose. Lantus (from my research) actually builds up crystals in the blood stream or crystalline depots from what I understand, so I believe what happens is after 4 cycles this depot is established. If you wait too long for the next dose ooooor you decrease the dose but the cat still needs x units of insulin the depot starts depleting and once gone (ie cat using the insulin shot PLUS depot) the cat starts having crazy high numbers again.

When Emmett started getting lime greens when he was up with the high doses (+5 units) I'd feed medium carb and test 30 mins, 1hr, 2 hrs...or more depending on the numbers. And reduce immediately at the next dose. You can see my unit chart, how the dose dropped really quick from 7 units to about 4 or 5 (I can't remember when he started leveling out).

Anyway, I wrote a lot of mumbo jumbo...hopefully some of it makes sense. The bottom line is, must shoot low to stay low. But be safe, if you're not comfy, give your high carb food, or medium carb and test. I'm not there with Luci, so I can't observe her behaviour or anything. If she's getting all crazy and meowing alot, in my experience this means one of 2 things -- BG's are quite low (Emmett does this usually with BG's below 50) or BG's are really high (Emmett did this for months with his sporatic times).

Now just as a side note and for some comforting numbers. I my family has multiple cats, they all get to visit each other mostly on the weekends. I also have multiple BG meters (cause I got them all free lol -- it's silly -- I have like 4 contour meters). Anyway, I have tested most of the cats.

Clara (Emmett's blood sister -- also 9 years old): her BG readings range from 60 (3.3 mmol) to 74 (4.1 mmol) -- I have read her 4 or 5 times and have never got anything lower or higher than this. ...the 60 was first thing in the morning last weekend.
Marty (Albino kitteh -- 2 years old): his BG seems to range from 70 (3.9 mmol) to 76 (4.2 mmol)
Bruce (14 year old): only one reading here - but he was 100 (5.6 mmol) -- he has some health issues though, like IBD and unknown problems, so I'd say 100 is pretty good for him.

Anyway, all I'm saying is the blood relative of Emmett, most of the time, gets lower readings than Emmett's lows you see in that chart. So shooting at the low numbers is simply to maintain those numbers, NOT to reduce further...the insulin curve must be smooth and stay low...

Okay, I think that's enough lol. If you have questions, or none of this makes any sense (I didn't proof read it haha), just respond and I can hopefully clear it up. And for others with experience greater than mine, if anything I wrote is against protocol, please say so and correct me...I don't wanna give bad advice. I've simply outlined what works for Emmett and myself.


R

 

That's a lot of info...I'm trying to absorb...but it does make sense to shoot low to stay low...hence the moves in .25 increments in either direction ... gets a bit frustrating when she was doing so well on her 1 u...to now face the same ole high numbers for what seems like days on end...thank you! I understand that's what works best for Emmett...it's a nice model to follow - especially if you're giving such a large dose...I'm hoping Luci will catch on to her smaller dose...whenever she's ready...there are times though when I just resign myself to being an insulin mama for the rest of our days (hers or mine)...and that's ok...at least she's still here with us...and I love her...I think often of how close I came to losing her last November - when that silly vet said if it was his cat, he'd put her down...ugh...gives me the chills every time I think about that... I was broken hearted about that diagnosis and his recommendation! Just couldn't accept it...so here we are...with a fine group of people - all with the same objective - trying to save our FD cats from that fate...totally unnecessary...when are the vets going to catch on? Maybe attend some seminars? FD is not a killer...doesn't have to be...but it is a ton of work...and home testing is an absolute requirement - they should offer to teach their patient's parents how to test...not offer an immediate 'out' of euthanasia

 

Whoa....if my vet said that I'd be finding a different vet. Do you still go there? That's insane. I could never imagine my vet saying such a thing. I've even sent my vet the charts and she looks at them when she has spare time! She can't believe the numbers Emmett is getting. But it is a lot of work as we all know. That said, I'm finding it easier now that I have my methods down and I know how Emmett responds.

Luci is only 9 years old! I'm shocked he'd say that. Was he an older or younger vet?

I'm totally with you, do what you're comfortable with. I only outlined what I've done for Emmett to try and help. But in the end you do what you feel comfortable with. Luci looks tricky...I only experienced numbers below 40 2 or 3 times since I started...lucky I guess. ...Luci seems to get those at any given moment

As I said, you can tag me if you have questions. But I should let you know as I've realized over the last few days...when someone is tagged there's NO EMAIL notification...only way you know is the "Alerts" in the top right of this page when you log in. I guess a PM would notify me...I dunno. You can do either.

R

 

I found another vet in Florida - we're snowbirds so it worked out nicely - had plenty of vets to choose from there! I was very angry with that vet for telling us that - as if there was no other option! I mean it wasn't a fatal disease we're talking about - diabetes isn't fatal in humans...I was livid! Long story short - the second vet was supportive of me 'trying' to home test, give Lantus, etc. He did tell me she should come back in for a 'curve' and perhaps a fructosamine test (which after I read about found to be a not good use of my funds) I could do a curve at home - all day any day...and the fructosamine test would only tell us that she had diabetes -we knew that...oh well...so here we are today...I won't take any cat back to Vet number 1 for any reason - I'd say if I had to guess his age he's maybe in his late 40's - not old, not young...seems experienced - but none with FD except the death sentence...he needs to be educated about FD!

I find that annoying...no emails on alerts - have to check here for any feedback..I'm going to increase Luci's dose this morning...she hasn't done anything good lately with that .75 - I'm using calipers and had thought about going up to .85 just to see if she'd respond...but her depot is most likely depleted now and she's not had any contraband to do crazy things with her numbers...I guess she just wasn't ready for that .75 dosage - just yet - her little pancreas needs a little more help...I'm anxious to get her back to the lagoon so she can heal and get comfortable in those green zones...

 

Good stuff -- lucky you switched. The vet shouldn't be a vet in my opinion, if he's not educated with FD he should be.

Yup, honestly, do the 1 unit and test after 3, 6, 9, PMPS ...i think every 2-3 hrs is good (unless you have reason to ...like lime green or a fast falling bg, or she's meowing about ferociously)

Anything more, like say +2, I found that I'd catch the slightly lower falling BG numbers but no real bottom at +2 ...it's interesting if you want the true "curve though...

I did test every hour when I was trying to figure Emmett out lol, so up to you what you're comfy with. My every hour testing was interesting to see onset and outset (is that a word?)

Anyway, hopefully you get some nice greens with the 1 unit.