911 Fluffy levels

Fluffy's blood level this morning was 157 I have him 1 1/2u. I just took his blood 2 hrs later and it was 43 . I put karo syrup on his gums and will test him again in about 15 mins. I am stressed out. HELP

 

Just breathe, Rose. If it gets too low, you can always take him to the vet. Most hypos can be managed at home, with frequent testing and karo and high carb food.

I don't want to scare you, just give you info. Print this sheet out so you can refer to it: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=15887

If he would have any severe symptoms, like a seizure, you will need to go to the vet. Is your vet open today or do you have an emergency vet nearby? It would be good to have those numbers ready if you need them.

So for now, you have given him the karo and you will take another test. Be watching him to make sure he is acting normally.

 

Rose has my number because I helped with her spreadsheet so she has called me. She gave karo and waited 15 minutes and got 35. I have described possible symptoms to her and she does have an emergency vet she can use. She wants to try it at home first. I suggested more karo and another test.

 

Not only should she keep rubbing the karo on, she could also try some treats to stop the downward slide and then give some food. Treats are high carb, work well, but food also needs to be added if Fluffy will eat. Hope she has a lot of test strips. Even if Fluffy goes back up to say 50, she still has to be testing because Fluffy may go back down again. Karo is quick upper, treats are longer lasting, then food.

 

If you have any FF Sliced Beef, the gravy alone works well also......vanilla ice cream finally stopped Mishka after treats, 3 cans of food.....still going down so gave her some ice cream. Now, if Fluffy won't eat anything, you will just have to keep up with the Karo and if that doesn't work, with vomiting, empty stomach and the dose you gave, I would go to the vet. If he does level out, I would then suggest 1/4 of Pepcid A/C to help settle the tummy.

 

Hope,

Thanks for chiming in. The board is really quiet this morning. She didn't have any higher carb food. Hubby has gone out to get some.

 

I just hope Fluffy will eat and also keep it down. I remember way back, before FDMB was even a thought in Rebecca's head, Patches(GA) had a hypo starting. Forget going to the vet....not enough time.....so I sat on the floor and just kept rubbing karo on his gums. Took a long time, he and I were both covered int he stuff, but eventually he came around. He had lost his urine, was hallucinating, scared me to death. Hometesting was unheard of so no clue as to numbers. Just watch your cat for symptoms nailbite_smile

 

Rose, do not syringe any karo into Fluffy's mouth. You have to rub it on the gums. If he won't allow you to do that remember....... Another option for administering syrup, diluted liquid glucose, honey or sugar syrup to a cat who is seizuring is to fill a needleless syringe with the mixture and insert via the rectum.

 

hey sue, got your pm. i was on the road coming to work to do paperwork. i can definitely hang around and help out if needed

how long before we get another number?

 

Should be soon. She is on now.

 

20 minutes ago levels were 37 Gave him more karo took anough reading now 59 will try another meter to see if that makes a difference. Do you think feeding him some beef and gravy will help bring it up? Called vet in case I need to take him there. Fluffy is not showing any signs of hypoglycemia will test him again in 15 minutes. I will welcome any advice Thanks

 

hey just read this...on board with you

 

stay with same meter for consistancy..feed gravy only at first..don't fill him up too quickly

 

he's been vomiting according to ss.

 

so would you say we're at about +3?

remember, pz can last a bit longer than pzi as far as peak

what brand is the beef & gravy? we can look up the carb count on it for you.
also, you can always stir a hair of karo in that gravy and feed it too, if the food is not high carb enough

 

I would just feed him gravy off the can, not the food yet. The number is much better, but you are still a way from nadir. The syrup brings him up fast, but he will go down again. The food (gravy) will last longer. But you don't want to give him a whole lot of food. You want him to agree to eat when he needs to, so don't overfeed.

 

That's a pretty good rise, but not quite tine to relax yet. Numbers usually drop for the first 6 hours after a shot. So Fluffy is in for a lot of pokes today. Is he willing to eat some food or treats? That'll last longer in his system and really help boost his #s. Test again in 15 or 20 minutes.

 

You are doing great, Rose, getting those tests in. You have a number of people here helping you and holding your hand. Don't forget to breathe!

 

folks he vomited 6 times today...food may not be the only answer. gravy is ok or will that vomit up too?

 

Yeah I saw that on her other thread. Was it food puke or did he end up getting up a hairball in the end, Rose?

 

the vomiting is definitely going to play a role here. we have to hope the vomiting is over with and that he can keep some gravy and/or food down. personally, if he vomits again anytime soon, i'm leaning towards taking him to the vet to let them handle this because it could get tricky if the vomiting continues.

 

yes, not getting anything substantial in him for the day could create problems all day long...perhaps dire. has vet been contacted and on the ready if need be?

 

yes, rose has alerted a vet just in case

 

Her regular vet is not open but she has an emergency vet she can use.

Maybe the vomiting helped cause that early low number? Hopefully, if he keeps the gravy down, he may head up?

 

Man I hate to say this now..but see?????? this poor girl was NOT a health visitor and had NO REAL HELP from us at pzi and did NOT have the basics down. if it were'nt for you health folks checking in on pzi who knows what ???????
and the dosing???? who was on board with this???? nobody!! I'm just so mad at US!

sorry, now back to fluffy.

 

Lori, check the link I posted. She was helped - on going from the beginning of January to the present. We answered her questions. There were a few dose questions but we didn't press hard enough on that. I am actually pleased that she got so many answers from PZI. We did well with her, but I agree it is hard to do anything close to that with most newbies. We just don't have enough people.

 

sue, can you find out anything more about the vomiting? any inkling as to what came up and/or why? if kitty has a history of vomiting?

also, find out if she is testing for ketones? need to know if there's been a ketone test in the last 24 hours?

i've been in touch with someone and she's concerned that this is a new kitty, high numbers, and vomiting which could indicate ketones or dka developing.

how is kitty's general behavior? perky and alert or sullen and lethargic?

 

Rose, did he vomit before eating or after? If after, how long after the shot did he vomit?

 

.....

 

Here is her original post this am: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=35013 Looks like he vomited before the shot.

She said he was acting normally altho very unhappy about the testing. I stressed any abnormal behavior to go to the vet.

Here is her original post going on several days: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=33765

 

My husband went to the store and got Friskes beef and gravy. Sorry, I gave him the food not just the gravy, he ate it with no problem. He only vomited at 6:30am Tested at 7:30 was 157 gave him 1 1/2u. He is acting liek his usual self right now. Will check him again in a minute. just took it 182

 

This is looking MUCH better, Rose. I would back off any syrup and test again in 30 minutes or so. You still have a few hours until +6 or so, right? You want his numbers to continue going up or even out.

 

awesome! most likely the crisis is over.......assuming he keeps that food down. if this were me i'd test no later than an hour from now and what you get then will determine the next step.

if he vomits that food up, test right away and post your number. you may need to take him to the vet about this vomiting issue ok.

do you test for ketones? if you have the strips, can you get a test the next time he pees?

 

Rose, did he eat any food at all after he vomited and you gave the shot? If so, has he kept that down?

You apparently removed all dry food on the 13th....correct?

I also see where you have been sometimes giving 1.50 and sometimes 2 units. You have to stick with a set dose for at least a few days UNLESS the dose is too high and you need to drop it down.

Also, you posted

Always, test first, then feed, then shoot. You need to make sure Fluffy is eating well first.

Next up, there is a red 911 up by Post Icon......just click on that and it will definitely get attention along with putting it up on Health also.

What are his latest numbers?

 

yes that is looking good, i thought i saw on your ss that fluffy vomited 6 times...that really got my attention.

 

OKay. Now that things are looking better and we are all breathing normally. We will check in on you - test every 30 - 60 minutes for a while until you get close to +6 or so.

BUT you will probably get a higher number than usual tonight because of the syrup and the high carb. DON'T react to it with a dose of insulin like the 1.5 units. Come on, give us the number and get some advice. He may be in higher numbers for a few days - it varies with the kitty how long it takes to come down from a sugar high.

And if you ever get a number around 200 but especially lower, you should wait. Test again in 30 minutes to make sure the number is moving up and goes above 200. And ask for advice. As new as he is in to insulin, we would have probably advised a token dose or no insulin at all.

I am so sorry we didn't get that info to you before this morning. It would have saved you stress and worry.

Your curve will still be very necessary but should probably wait a couple days to get rid of the carbs from today. But from now on, you must get a preshot number every time and a mid cycle number. Fluffy may be more sensitive to insulin after this hypo and the food change may just be kicking in. You will have to be watching and careful.

Put some neosporin on his ears to help with the bruising.

 

Rose, once this day is over with you could post back here and ask about using U-100 syringes, 3/10 cc and the conversion chart for U-40 insulin use. Who knows......Fluffy might end up only needing like .60 of a unit and it makes it so much easier to dose. Also, the Reli-On syringes at Walmart are cheap.

Not all cats will get a major high after an episode like this......and not all cats will peak at +6 so keep an eye out on those numbers for today. If you need help, put the post on Health with the red 911 icon so it is sure to be seen tonight.

 

Blood level was 243 at 2:10 pm. Fluffy threw up food, yellow, then white. I am sorry this was this morning early

 

The number is fine. I am wondering about the vomiting. Is this new? Has he always been a vomiter? Did it start with the switch to wet food?

 

Do you have any Pepcid A/C? If so, try and get 1/4 tab in him and don't forget to gently syringe some water after pilling. If you have any Pill Pockets, you could also put it in that. If you don't have any A/C on hand, I would suggest getting some today. It really helps settle the tummy. Do you also have any strips to test his urine for ketones? If not, suggest getting those today also. You can buy either Ketostix or KetoDiastix.

 

i think fluffy has some diarhea issues lately...could it be the introduction of the new food. Rose, try adding water to his canned food and stirring into a gravey like consistency to get fluids into him until all of this resolves itself ok hon.
you really did great with some scary circumstances.. i hope we will get to see your post every day for awhile so we can help you decide how to handle this dosing. i think fluffy will do very well once he get's on a good dose.
you will certainly have our eyes now!

 

Fluffy level at 4pm is 305. I will test him again at 7pm

 

hey Rose, i got your pm about what are ketones and replied. i want to post here too though so everyone can give you any more info i may have missed anything as ketones are something all diabetic kitty owners should know about and test for.

my pm reply to Rose:

ketones are a complication of diabetes. they can rear their ugly head anytime and more so when the glucose levels are too high for too long. and if there's not enough insulin being given or an underlying infection, it increases the chances of them developing.

if caught early, they can easily be treated. if they aren't, it results in diabetic ketoacidosis which can be at best, very expensive and grueling to treat as kitty needs 24 hour specialized vet care or at worst, deadly.

sooooooooo, it is something that any diabetic kitty owner should be testing for. more often in the beginning and less often as kitty becomes regulated.

you can buy the test strips in any pharmacy. they are called ketostix or ketodiastix. you stick it in kitty's urine, like we humans would do with a pregnancy test basically. then you watch for it to change colors and compare it to a chart on the bottle they come in.

some cats are modest though and don't want you under their tail when they are going so what people do is dip it immediately in the puddle kitty leaves or they use a long handled ladle to reach in and get a sample while kitty is peeing.

make sense?

 

Fluffy still has diarhea but not as bad as it was. I think it was changing from dry to wet. He is still peeing alot. Thanks so much for all the advice. I will keep you all updated every day for a while.

I would like to know what dosage I should give him tonight? I do not want this to happen again tonight.. This morning it was 1 1/2u I wish I knew how to get his insulin regulated, but I guess this will be an ongoing thing.

I have 3 other cats that use the same litter box so is there any way to check his ketones? How often should this testing be done? If I see him in the box can I do it then as long as the box it clean?

 

It is Hard, Rose, and on going. There is no ideal dose that will work every day for days at a time. That's why you need to test and adjust.

Post tonight after you get a number around 11 hours after your morning shot and we will help you figure out a dose.

With Oliver, we put him in a room with a litter box of aquarium gravel. Once he peed, we got the sample.

 

Rose... You did a great job today with one of the very hardest parts of managing FD. All of us have been through a hypo. And there is not any thing scarier.

You can't just *know*. It truely is an ongoing thing. And it changes all the time. Keep in mind that you've only been at this 16 days and how far you've come in such a very short time. We do the best we can with the information we have and the advice from all the wonderful folks on here that have "been there, done that".

You're doing great. Hang in there. It *will* get easier.

What a lucky Fluffy to have such a wonderful, caring momma bean.

 

that's exactly how i do it with Mousie. if i happen to catch her in one of the boxes, i run for my vial of ketostix and wait until i hear the pee stop. i then quickly dip it in the puddle before it soaks into the litter. fortunately i have litterboxes in the closet in my office at the house so often when i get lucky it is because i'm sitting there at my computer and she waltzes in to do her business.

for now, i'd try to get a test for ketones at least once a day. like i said, it is more critical in the beginning or if the cat has had them already. as kitty becomes regulated or goes into remission, you can cut back on the frequency. i only test Mousie maybe once a month or so nowadays.

as far as tonight's shot, like Sue said, post your number please and someone will help you figure out what to do. and remember, if response is slow (you post and half hour later you don't have a reply), go to the Health forum and post there, making sure to mention that you had a asymptomatic hypo this morning. fortunately pz is pretty flexible so if you have to wait a little bit for an answer, there's no harm done

 

I'm so glad the crisis is over, rose! You did great! I think today was a learning experience for everyone here in pzi-land. I just want to offer some encouragement. I truly believe that you will get a handle on the dosing soon. I know today was horrible and scary, but it is good info for you to collect, and good practice testing. You're an old pro at it now! There is good news in today's incident--Fluffy responds well to insulin. That is great news and it will be good to remember with his future doses. If you happened to read the thread that sprang up as a result of your scare (please don't take any of it personally. we're just a big, diverse, opinionated group of people. We generally get along well, but don't always see eye to eye. Kind of a loving, but dysfunctional family) you will see the idea of a no-shoot number. That is a bg level that you should not shoot insulin into. For newbies it should be 200. Once you get lots of data, that number can get lower. It's just a safety net. Hypos are not fun, and we avoid them at all costs.

Now for ketone testing...I'm lucky that Charlie isn't pee shy. If your fluffy isn't shy, you can tape a strip to a long thin stick (a shish-ka-bob skewer works very well) and stalk him while he pees. Just wave it around under his tail to wet it. If he's pee-shy, then the other suggestions you were given would be your best bet.

 

Fluffy levels just now was 408

 

I know it seems high but we just don't know how much of it is sugar and carbs. If you want to sleep and be conservative, I would give .5 at the 12 hour shot. If you will be up and can get some tests in, I think one unit. Both may be too low, but I think you will really need to just start over again tomorrow. Today messed up your progress, but you can get back on track.

But let's see what others say.

 

Rose, can you feed Fluffy a little earlier and make sure he keeps it down and then shoot an hour later? Did you ever get any Pepcid A/C into him?

 

Hi Rose. I'm so glad that you and Fluff came through this today.


The first thing I would like to do is publicly apologize for my part in the ugliness on the other thread. I hope you will accept that because no part of it was intended to hurt you.

Now, I will put my .02 in about what I "think" you should consider about dosing once the inevitable rebound from this passes and then I will take myself off.

What I believe has happened is that you were started by your vet with a good dose for the time you were still feeding dry food. I believe that when you switched Fluff to all wet food the dose should have been lowered. You had no way of knowing that so please do not take this as a criticism. Hey, I came very close to doing the same thing four years ago with Moochie. I was trying (unsuccessfuly, I might add) to get her to eat canned food. I shot her before work in the morning because she had actually taken a few bites of the food and I was in a hurry. I left for a client's office. Thankfully I stopped back at home before going back to my office because Moochie was well on her way to a hypo. It was averted but only because I got lucky. I too was very new and didn't realize what could happen.

Anyway, I believe that when you switched Fluff to wet and continued to shoot the same dose he started to "rebound" and when your vet saw the BGs he/she did not understand what was happening and told you to raise the dose. All of this is not to criticize you or your vet. It's simply to state what I believe happened so that it doesn't happen again.

A lot of info on this site says to "watch the BGs when you switch the food to wet" and IMHO it should say that you should cut the dose down before switching completely because of this very possibility.

Anyway, for what it's worth this is my opinion.

Again, please accept my sincere apology for causing your already stressful day to become worse. It shouldn't have happened.

Anyway, I digress. Again, I am very glad that you got the help you did today and made it through.

 

Rose cat's tend to be hypersensitive to insulin after a day like this...so be on the safe side. shoot low. .5U
(((((Ruth)))))

eta...sorry i wrote the wrong name....

 

most are - after a day like this but thx for the info

 

ummm, your welcome susie? glad i could help you out.