A new dilemma - diabetes and kidney issues

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by Fuzzbunny, Nov 8, 2018.

  1. Fuzzbunny

    Fuzzbunny New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2018
    Sylvester has been OTJ for only 3 weeks, and began to develop some urinary issues. His blood sugars have been great on the Instinct Raw Rabbit medallions, but the vet says he now has beginnings of kidney issues and of course, wants me on the K/D prescription diet. Does anyone use something inbetween to help with both issues?
    TIA
     
  2. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Many people with kitties in the early stages of kidney disease now feed normal food with as low a phosphorous level as we can find; or use 'phosphorous binders' mixed into normal food (to reduce phosphorous absorption).
    Keeping the blood glucose in a good range helps the kidneys, as this helps reduce their workload.

    This website on managing feline kidney disease is an absolutely brilliant source of information:
    https://www.felinecrf.org/

    Eliz
     
  3. sassycatlady

    sassycatlady Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2017
    Ditto on what Elizabeth said above. I had a cat with CKD and used the food chart on Tanya's (the www.felinecrf.org site) to help find a food relatively low in phosphorus content. I think I used mostly Fancy Feast with him, but I dabbled in some other brands too. Like with diabetes, having that canned food diet is great b/c it provides extra moisture (kidney cats tend to be dehydrated) plus it has the protein they need to maintain muscle mass. I also gave him some of the K/D dry kibble too to mix things up but his diet was mostly canned FF. But as they say on Tanya's site, the best food is any food a cat will eat (in other words, don't let them starve if they're not eating low phos, low carb food) - and then you can add phos binders if necessary. I'm not a fan of the "prescription" diets in general as a mainstay b/c they are really nothing more than a higher end version of Science Diet (ugh, don't get me started on that brand....). :rolleyes:
     
    Elizabeth and Bertie likes this.
  4. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Jun 8, 2016
    Can you post the labs?
     
  5. Vtambo & Rex

    Vtambo & Rex Member

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    Feb 27, 2017
    such a coincidence I saw this posting! I also have a kitty with both diabetes and ckd. I was just coming to this site to ask a question about food myself. my advice to the person asking the question is DO NOT put your cat on the kidney food. I went that route in the very beginning after the first vet visit that indicated the kidney numbers were elevated. within one day - yes I said one day - my poor boy's blood sugar numbers went up to almost 500 on that stuff! if you look at the charts of prescription foods for kidney issues, there are no foods that are even remotely low in carbs - or high enough in protein. I have had luck with Whole Earth Farms Chicken Pate and Duck Pate and Organix Turkey Pate and Chicken Pate. I am actually in the process of trying to figure out some other alternatives since my guy has decided he no longer likes the Organix at all and now I am seeing signs that he is starting to not devour the Whole Earth Farms as much either. I am thinking he is getting tired of it.

    the question I was going to post is does anyone have any experience or knowledge of the food charts that would explain why some of the numbers on Dr. Lisa's chart are different than the same ones on Tanya's (CKD website)? so confusing.
     
  6. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Jun 8, 2016
    Dr Lisa’s was updated last year so I’d trust the numbers. Some good choices are tikicat and wueruva bff... both are both low carb and phosphorus
     
  7. Veronica & Babu-chiri

    Veronica & Babu-chiri Well-Known Member

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    Aug 5, 2016
    Did he had an UTI, UTI can raise his kidney numbers but if this is just as a result of an infection they could go back to normal, but if he's having beginning of kidney issues you need to start taking care of them just not by giving him k/d diets, at the beginning they do not need a special diet, you need a diet that addresses both issues kidneys and diabetes that's low carb and low phosphorus, you can take a look at Dr. Lisa's list and choose a food that is less than 10% carb and under 300 phosphorus ( if you can get one under 250 even better)

    k/d diets are low in protein which will cause him to lose muscle mass and that's not good for him and they usually substitute protein with carbs to give the sick cats calories, but high carbs can get his diabetes unregulated and that on the long run will end up hurting his kidneys
     
  8. tiffmaxee

    tiffmaxee Well-Known Member

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    Nov 15, 2013
    They use a different method to determine phosphorus. Dr. Lisa goes by calories and Helen, on the CKD chart uses dry matter. With DMA you want 1% or less if possible or as close as possible. With Dr. Lisa under 200 or as low as possible. If the phosphorus gets too high you can add a phosphorus binder to the food.
     
  9. Vtambo & Rex

    Vtambo & Rex Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2017
    some of the numbers are different across the board though. not only the phosphorus numbers, the carb numbers and the protein numbers as well. for example Merrick Limited Ingredient GF Duck Lisa has it as 26 protein, 15 carbs and 146 phos. Tanyas site says 30 protein, 6 carbs and .80 phos. I get that the phos thing is pretty good on both, but the discrepancy in the carbs is kind of a big deal. there are many others like this as well.

    I am running into quite a problem in trying to find a food that looks good on both sites. I like the numbers in the Wysong foods but found out that wysong is not a complete food for a cat, also it comes in huge cans. Another good one was Nature's Logic, which I found out is no longer available, same with Pinnacle. for whatever reason my guy wont touch Weruva or Tiki cat foods. :(
     
  10. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Jun 8, 2016
    Try tiki cat. I love the after dark line.
     
  11. Vtambo & Rex

    Vtambo & Rex Member

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    Feb 27, 2017
    he wont eat tiki cat
     
  12. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Jun 8, 2016
    Is it the texture? Because they make a velvet mousse style that’s not lumpy.
     
  13. Vtambo & Rex

    Vtambo & Rex Member

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    Feb 27, 2017
    you'll have to ask him I guess. I haven't a clue. I have tried all kinds and he just will not eat. he takes a whiff and walks the other way. same with weruva. he must know it is good for him.... ;)
     
  14. Vtambo & Rex

    Vtambo & Rex Member

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    Feb 27, 2017

    also decided he will no longer eat Young Again....
     
  15. tiffmaxee

    tiffmaxee Well-Known Member

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    Nov 15, 2013
    It’s really hard finding food for CKD and diabetes. I ended up using phosphorus binder.
     
  16. Veronica & Babu-chiri

    Veronica & Babu-chiri Well-Known Member

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    Aug 5, 2016
    I agree if there's a low carb diet that he likes and is not low phosphorus, you could use a phosphorus binder here's the link for Tanya's page where you can find a lot of information about phosphorus binders http://www.felinecrf.org/phosphorus_binders.htm

    In my case what I ended up doing is home cooking a diabetic CKD appropriate diet
     

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