A new week...

We did a dose increase and a little bit of a curve, and it looked smiley for the first time, so hooray for that! I'm choosing to believe that the +5 would have been green (haha).

The 2.25u looks like we may finally be heading in the right direction. Fingers crossed today wasn't just beginner's luck with the new dose.

It did seem to make him super hungry today though. Around the bottom of the curve, he kept begging for food (which he got, of course), but he ended up eating a fair amount more than usual today. Normally they don't finish all of their food, but today it was gone and he needed extra. Interested to see how he eats tonight....

 

Very nice curve!

 

That looks awesome! Yayyyy Sam and great job Djamila And of course the +5 would have been green

 

Sigh...pretty much flat last night, and again today. Yesterday I was so hopeful we were on to something...

 

It's a process ...

 

It would be so nice if our kitties would make steady progress instead of doing it in fits & starts!

But everything is data gathering, and you & Sam have had some lovely numbers recently

 

I raised his evening dose a smidge. I'm home to monitor, and those 2u doses had been rather chubby anyway, so I figured I should just make it official.

Also, I came home this evening and found out that the fire alarm in the building went off in the middle of the day today. Their poor little ears!!! They were stuck in here listening to that ear splitting siren for 20 minutes this morning before the fire department got it shut off. When I came home, they both seemed like nothing had happened, and the PMPS was totally normal, so I'm probably feeling like it's a bigger deal than they do.

 

Well this is weird. Don't you just love how unpredictable FD can be?

I got an out-the-door test this morning that didn't look promising. Came home a couple hours later and got a +5 that indicated a pretty flat cycle. Went back to work feeling a little discouraged.

Then came home this evening and ended up with a PMPS of 132. HUH?
Stalled 20 minutes and it went down to 124.
Stalled another 20 minutes (He's pretty mad about the lack of service at the "kitty restaurant" at this point) and got a 105.

How is that even possible?!?! How can he be dropping at +13?

As @Sue and Oliver (GA) used to always say, our sugar kitties dance to their own music.

He's eating now. I hate to skip a shot, but I'm nervous to shoot on a food-inflated number when his fasting number is so low tonight. Any thoughts?

 

Dang!!! He went down 30 points huh? I mean, technically, it's the same number with the 20% variance so there's that.

Honestly Djamilla...I HATE to skip a shot too, but I don't see a way around that. He's just really too low to shoot. I would never ever suggest a shot at 100 and you're right there. You COULD wait 2 hours and test again and see if he is high enough to shoot then, but that would throw your schedule off and you'd have to wait and shoot late tomorrow. That's probably not feasible with work, so you may just have to skip and understand that he might be a bit higher tomorrow.

This is GOOD news, just nerve wracking and annoying that you have to skip! BUT...let's celebrate that he is getting into these beautiful numbers!

 

@Rachel, thanks for sharing your thinking on that. I still hate to skip, but it's comforting to know you think it's the right choice!

And I just got my first box of u-100's out of the mailbox! Looks like they'll have to wait until tomorrow.

It is nice to see such a low number. Even if tomorrow's PS will likely make me cringe a little.

 

Could be his own insulin is releasing. Maury had three nights like that but he bounced shortly after. I was glad I gave him some insulin. The first night I played it safe but the next 2 nights I increased it by 0.25U. Are you going to try and get another test tonight?

 

If he was closer to 150, I would just wait a bit and give him a reduced dose, but at 105 and particularly with the numbers looking like they're dropping, I think it's just safer to skip tonight and take the probable high in the morning.

As for testing, at this point I won't test with no insulin on board. If he was showing signs of heading toward remission (getting numbers like this more often) I would grab a mid-cycle to see what was happening. However, I think it's safe to say that tonight is an anomaly, and not part of understanding his pattern.

 

A good night to get some sleep!

 

Sounds like a plan. Hopefully you won't get too high tomorrow morning .

 

I live in Seattle. I read this the wrong way at first.

 

LOL

 

Sam's AMPS is 246 which is pretty normal here. I'm curious to see what happens with today's cycle. I should be able to come home for a +5. (Fingers crossed everything at work is calm.)

 

Well that's interesting...I figured he might be higher this morning. Looking forward to seeing his +5!

 

Looks a little flat again. His +5 is 186 which isn't much of a drop. I was a little skinny on the dose this morning - just feeling a bit chicken after seeing that mysterious number last night.

 

Has anyone tried the Fance Feast Purely Natural chicken? It was on the new food list as zero carbs so I bought a couple. They are pricey, but BOTH kitties loved it, and that never happens. Sam has recently decided that he doesn't eat Fancy Feast Classics anymore , so as head chef of the kitty restaurant, I decided to change the menu up a bit this week.

 

The plot thickens...

PMPS is 128. We are now starting the stall cycle. If last night is any indicator, he may stay low. What is our hive-mind thinking tonight? Go ahead and give a tiny dose on a food spike? Or skip again?

 

@Rachel @ShipsCat @Kris & Teasel

So in protest to the second night in a row of late dinner...he just pooped on the bathmat. I don't think I can stall much longer. Help?

 

+20 minutes he's at 135. I'm going to feed, and keep my fingers crossed someone logs in soon...

 

@Bobbie And Bubba Sorry to tag you to come over here, but I need to shoot him if I'm going to tonight and I'd really love some advice first.

 

Can you monitor tonight and have penty of test strips and MC and HC food ?

 

Yes, yes, and yes. And THANK YOU for being here!

 

Although the past 24 hours he's been biting me every time I test. And hid at shot time this morning. Trying not to read too much into that.

 

Sorry for the ate

I would shoot and carefully monitor tonight, I hate to see you lose momentum since this is Sam's second rodeo .

 

Hey Djamila, I know I am not an experienced member but if it were me, since it looks like he is slowly rising, I would give at least 0.5U just so he has something. Hopefully, you can get a few more tests tonight just to be safe.

 

K

I get it, they get sick of it for sure but with this being his second time on insulin you need to be aggressive .

 

That's the direction I'm leaning, too. @Bobbie And Bubba , what do you think about dose? This morning I gave him a fat 2u/skinny 2.5 That seems like too much for tonight. But I agree that I need to be more aggressive this time.

 

@Yong, you've certainly been here enough to share your thoughts! As is often said here, I hold the syringe and have to decide, but I appreciate everyone's ideas when it gets tricky.

 

Give him a LC treat before the testing and see if that will help to calm down . I would go with 2 units IF you can monitor through the nadir tonight .

 

Thanks! Now I'm going to go try to coax him out from under the bed...

 

Dang! Sorry Djamila! Glad Bobbie was here to help out.

Looks like he came up to 147? How about a skinny 2 or just straight 2 and monitor?

 

I hope Bubba is doing well and enjoying his mice! Speaking of...how many carbs are in a mouse?

 

Sam's Preshots are much lower than Maury's so I wasn't comfortable suggesting anything more than 0.5U .

 

On second thought, I don't think your dose this AM was too much. He was in nice numbers. If you can monitor I wouldn't give any less than 2 units because they tend to go lower at PM cycles.

 

approx. 30 calories

 

What's confounding me here is that he seems to be going down THROUGHOUT the cycle. His nadir wasn't really very low...but now he's dropped 40 more points. That's been the case today and yesterday...nuts. Wonder if this is the beginning of a trend.

 

I am wondering if he is nadiring around +8 or later which would explain the lower PS number

 

Hmmm...interesting thought. That could explain this. Djamila, I know you probably don't want to do a curve again because I think you just did one last weekend. Any way you can maybe grab like...a +5 and then a +8 one day this weekend? Give us an idea of if he is still going down at that point or what?

 

I'm thinking I should do a curve this weekend. I wasn't planning to before, but after the past two evenings, it seems like a good idea. I was wondering about a shift in nadir as well. He's always been rising by +6 or +7, but as you both noticed, he's dropping through the PMPS which seems to indicate the insulin is lasting longer during the day.

As for his dose tonight, I totally chickened out. I pulled up 2u, but then let out a bunch right before I shot him. he ended up with a 1.4ish. I know I should be aggressive right now, but I'm a big chicken. Last time we did this dance I wouldn't have even considered shooting a number this low. I'll get some data tonight and then try to be braver if this happens again.

I cannot thank you all enough for being here through this. @Yong I was totally with you about the 0.5u. You should have seen how big my eyes got when Bobbie suggested such a big dose. And @Rachel and @Bobbie And Bubba, I wouldn't have even been 1.4u worth of brave without your nudging, so thank you both for keeping us moving forward here.

 

I was a chicken too when Maury first gave me those blue PMPS but I have become a little braver . This morning he was lower than those 3 nights and I gave him more than those nights! I'm glad I had that data though

 

If you shoot the 2 units tonight,get a +

You hold the syringe and have to be comfortable After studying his SS a bit more, I think he went lower on 3.13 PM and is bouncing so let's see what tonight's dose does. All data is good data. You have to be comfortable .

 

I think as long as you can monitor, you can be aggressive because you both now how to steer lower nunbers .

 

A curve would be great if you're okay with getting one this weekend. Tonights data will help you determine what to do in the future. I think after seeing what he does tonight and where he is tomorrow we can figure out a good no shoot number and what to do if he is there at preshot. And the curve will help us with a bigger picture so we can are maybe what's going on and deal with it from there!

 

If anyone is around, I'd love some thoughts on this morning's dose. He dropped pretty fast and low last night (we both survived, and I didn't even panic!)

He was the happiest cat in the world when I broke out the Evo kibble. Seriously. You should have heard the little squeaks of joy he made as he ate it. A good friend of mine was over for dinner last night, so she provided some moral support, and Sam was totally fine through the whole thing. Better than fine since he got to eat contraband.

Anyway, part of me is thinking I should reduce this morning since the evening numbers have been so low the last two nights and he seems to be reacting better to the insulin. But the other part of me thinks I should stick with 2.25u since he may be flat today. Any suggestions?

 

I was away from my computer last night. I'm really glad you had other kind folks here for advice and support. As for today, I'd take my cue from the lows he went to last night on 1.4 u. They were below the "danger zone" 50 for a human meter. I'd reduce to 1.2 u or even 1 u and monitor today. He's going to be insulin sensitive for a cycle or two after those lime greens.

 

Thanks Kris. Now for the next question: we're about an hour off schedule right now since I've been stalling at night, and then slept in a bit this morning. Normal shot time is 4:30, but right now it's 5:30. What are your thoughts about moving it back to 4:30 tonight? Do I need to do that in smaller increments, or is it okay to try for 4:30?

Also, I'm not going to be home to monitor tonight until +6, so I'm unsure about that dose as well. I think we'll have to wait until we see the numbers to decide on that, but just worrying ahead

He's getting a bit tricky right now.

 

You definitely earned a reduction last night! So this morning you went with 1.5?

 

Hey there, glad you didn't panic last night with those low numbers and very gad that you listened to your instinct about the dose last night, very surprising that he went that low after a recent skipped shot and on that dose . When he goes that low higher carb wet is best because dry takes to long to bring the numbers up .

It might be best that you only move the time up by a half hour because Sam is on a mission and an early shot will act like dose increase.

 

I went with a chubby 1.5u. He's usually higher during the day, and I only have one meeting I have to go in for, so I'll be able to work from home most of the day. I'm curious what other people would have done? I was really torn between giving a reduction and being aggressive.

I gave him the Evo at the +4 because I was hoping to avoid going with the high carb food and dealing with a high number this morning, but when I checked him about 40 minutes later and saw the 49, I got out the gravy. Thankfully, he was totally normal again this morning.

I was really surprised by that dive too. Especially after hitting the 277. I thought we were going to have a high cycle and I was regretting giving such a low dose. I'm so so thankful for your help yesterday, and the encouragement that if he went low I could handle it. I kept reminding myself of that last night, and it really helped.

I hadn't thought of shooting early as being similar to a dose increase. I'll try to babystep us back to the regular schedule.

He ate a big breakfast this morning. And now he's standing by the closet where he now knows I store the kibble and he's crying softly and pawing at the door, then giving me his sad eyes. I may regret working from home today

 

Looks pretty flat today. Maybe should have given a little more this morning? It feels like it's an unpredictable guessing game at this point...

 

Don't second guess yourself. He's more insulin sensitive today because of the low greens - look at the blue you have at a much smaller dose than you gave yesterday that gave a similar blue.

 

Good point. I may try to get a late cycle number since he's being super cooperative today. The last two days it's seemed that he's either having a late nadir, or dropping through the whole cycle. Getting a +8 or 9 might help figure out what's happening.

 

And we don't know if he actually is hitting that nadir late either..it's possible that's been his issue all along.

 

We're about at +8, but he's sleeping on my lap which he never does, and he's making these adorable little kitty snores. So now I'm thinking +9 might be better...

 

Compromise for in between, get +8.5

 

He got up on his own. There was no way I was going to break the spell!

And of course, now that I'm paying attention, he's gone back to his regular cycle and is rising (227 at +8.25).

Maybe the last couple of days were just because the sun was shining. It hasn't been sunny in weeks, so we were all feeling a little extra good. Today it's raining again and he's gone back to normal.

Any suggestion for tonight's dose, assuming he stays at this number or higher? Go back to his regular dose? Stay at the reduced dose? Throw a dart at the conversion chart and go with whatever it lands on? (I'm kidding!)

PS I will be leaving shortly after his shot, and not getting back until +6 tonight, so he's on his own, though he does have access to food.

 

From your SS if he's around this number or a little higher, you could do 2U like before when he had similar Preshots

 

I'll suggest 1.75 u just in case he's still a bit sensitive from the low greens.

 

Thanks to both of you. This morning I was feeling bold, but tonight I'm feeling more cautious since he's going to be alone until just past nadir.

Adding to that a rather dramatic reduction in carb intake effective immediately (grrrr....)

It's just so hard to know how to dose him after the past two evenings. I am so so thankful to have this group of people who understand how tricky this can be!

 

It's tough for sure! You're in the toughest zone too, when they suddenly start sliding down the scale...

 

Okay, he's at 244 and still mad because even though according to the schedule he's getting dinner 30 minutes early, according to the usual schedule it's still 30 minutes late. Oh, how he suffers!!!

I think I'm going to go with the 1.75 tonight. And then keep my fingers crossed that he really is back to normal now.

 

Gosh I hope that's true! It does get hairy at this point, but nothing would make me happier than to see him head that direction!

Any thoughts on the dose before I go shoot him (that just sounds so awful, doesn't it?)

 

HAHAHAHA it does, but we're all used to it!

I think 1.7 w0uld be fine. You shot 1.5 this morning on a similar number and it didn't drop him too much.

 

Came home a bit early because I decided I really wanted to catch the nadir and make sure he was okay.

He's at 252. At nadir. That's higher than his PS.

Back to regular dose in the morning (2.2u)? Or stay low for awhile?

 

Looks like he essentially stayed flat.

 

I'd stay low for another cycle or two because the flatness yesterday was a bit of bouncing. He's likely still sensitive after that free fall the other night - after a dose of 1.4 u and an NS the night before that. He wants less insulin. Maybe try 1.5 u or 1.75 u?

 

Thank you. I'm switching to the u-100s this morning, so I think I'll go with between 1.6 and 1.8u. I love all the tiny lines on these!

 

They're great - gives you a ton of dosing options. Just be sure to hide the U40s so you don't make a mistake in a moment of panic/brain fog.

 

Definitely bouncing...but still not bouncing into pinks which is nice!

 

He's hypo again. 45.

 

Did you give him a snack? Must be something in the air today

 

Yes, I gave him a bit of gravy, but he wanted more. Then I remembered that the Stella and Chewy's is higher carb than the gravy, so I mixed up a couple of bites of that for him. He should skyrocket any minute now...

 

Just saw your other thread

 

My granddaughter is with me since yesterday and I haven't been on much. Just saw that Sam hypoed again. If it were me , I think since he hypoed on 3/16 with a 1.4 dose, he needs less insulin. I would drop the dose to below that so maybe around 1.25 unit and let this bounce clear for 6 cycles and then see where he is.

I am wondering now if around 3/ 10 - 3/13 PM cycles if he hit some greens and bounced in the AM and the dose was increased. And it was too much.


It will be hard to continue holding the dose if you see some higher numbers but I think you are going to need to do that to keep him safe and then methodically raise him from then( .25 unit at a time.). I am glad you are getting U 100 syringes. I printed out the conversion chart and kept it inside my cabinet door and checked and rechecked the dose before I shot.

 

Bobbie - I hope you're enjoying your weekend with your grandaughter! I must have looked at that chart and practiced a dozen times before I switched. And I played with the u-40 and the u-100 together for a couple of days to make sure I was confident first. it's a big change - and not something we want to mess up.

You may be right about the 3/10 and 3/13 cycles. Especially in light of the 3/15 and 3/16 AM cycles which showed the insulin lasting so much longer. It seems like his nadir is a bit of a moving target right now since 3/11 and 3/17 both show it around +5-+6.

I appreciate the recommendation to hold the dose low and ignore high numbers for a few days. That will be hard to do if he hits a pink. I may need a reminder. But at this point, I'd love to give his body some rest. It has to be exhausting to him to bounce all over like this!

One thing that I'm really concerned about with all of this: Up until yesterday, he's been eating Stella & Chewy's for somewhere near half of his daily calories. It turns out that the flavor we were using was over 20% carbs. When I learned that yesterday, I pulled it, so his carb intake has changed quite a bit in the past 24 hours. That seems really fast to be the direct cause of the hypo today, but it may have contributed. So in light of that change in diet, do you think I should go to maybe just 1u? Or would you still say 1.25u since I thought diet changes take a little while to have an impact?

 

Holy crap! That's quite a sudden loss of carbs. I think that could be the culprit...changing food can change them over 100 points overnight.

What carb % is he on now? I think I might be tempted to drop to 1 and see what happens...with the carb changes and the insulin sensitivity he might have, that's a lot of stuff happening at once...

 

Okay, I don't normally take "unnecessary" numbers on him, but I figured I was going to need advice tonight and better start a little early. His +11 is 205, which means he'll be safely shootable. Also, he's already going crazy trying to get me to feed him. Anyone and everyone who wants to chime in with dose suggestions is welcome!

 

Right?! I was horrified when I opened the email. Although today I used it as part of my hypo kit, so it's not totally useless

His other foods are around 3-4% - Fancy Feast Classic and Instinct Raw. I may give him some Fancy Feast Naturals too since he's not loving the Classic right now. That's 0% carb.

So yes, a huge change.

 

That is a huge dif in carbs I agree with Rachel. Take him back to 1 unit and monitor all you can to gather data and you can preceed from there and I wouldn't be surprised if he'll even need less soon.

 

No number is an unnecessary one

 

Gosh, I hope that's true. It may also mean that this entire round of diabetes is because I trusted the label on a pet food instead of doing the research. Lesson learned.

 

He is bouncing from the low number today. Ignore the higher number and I wouldn't shoot anything over 1 unit and get a few test in before you go to bed.

 

Djamila, that is exactly why I started giving Bubba and Forrest raw food from My local butcher( no AB , no steriods, no additives ) and adding Foodfurlife supplements. I was so tried of the recalls and the changes in formula and the carb count getting higher.

Our daily food intake is 4 meals a day ( of equal size ) being raw and 2 are YOUNG AGAIN ( 1 tbsp each ) dry Zero Carb formula for 2 meals.

 

It's possible that is the reason for this relapse! My gosh...the good news is you know now and you've changed to a better food!

 

So you just get the meat (chicken? turkey?), grind it up, add the supplements, and...done? I might consider that.
Although you should have seen the look for rebuke Samir just gave me when I handed him a bowl of regular food. I think he was expecting the high-carb extravaganza to continue.

Yep. Live and learn - and hope this hasn't damaged him beyond recovery. It will be interesting to see what happens over the next few weeks as he adjusts to a lower carb diet.

 

If you are interested in homemade food, you might want to read Dr. Lisa Pierson's article about how to prepare your own cat food . It really does sound amazing and makes a lot of sense but until I can get my dream career I cannot afford to do so, myself.

 

pI buy raw ground chicken and turkey and add the FOODFURLIFE supplements to each meal. Since it is raw ground meat without ground bones, I buy the FOODFURLUFE with eggshell calcium.

My butcher sells 1 lb frozen packages and I have him cut them in half because 1/2 pound is exactly what my two cats eat a day. I give two meals a day of the Young Again mainly because when I not home and I need to use the auto feeder ,I don't want raw food hanging around because of spoilage.

You can freeze portions of raw and put in the auto feeder to be thaw when the auto feeder opens. Then I use the YA for much later feedings but you can use low carb can food for those feedings also.

Believe it or not, but the raw food from the butchers is cheaper than the Natures Variety Wet food I was feeding a day. Go figure and the beast part is that I can use that ground meat from the freezer for our human meals.

 

Hahaha I'm with you on that! I definitely want to try Dr. Lisa's recipe one day...but that has to wait until I have more time and can afford a meat grinder.

I don't think it's damaged him much Djamila...not with those numbers!

 

And this evening, on one lowly unit of insulin...we have a very nice, safe green.

I wonder what Sam thinks when I go crazy kissing him and doing the happy dance in the kitchen...

 

Now that's more like it!!