Adequan SubQ injection questions

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by maryjoandsmokie, Jan 5, 2010.

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  1. maryjoandsmokie

    maryjoandsmokie Member

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    I'm picking up Adequan from Vet tomorrow for SubQ injections for Smokie's arthritis.

    Does anyone know of someway to keep the injections from stinging?
     
  2. Jean and Charcoal

    Jean and Charcoal Well-Known Member

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    http://www.ehow.com/about_5207713_adequan-cats.html

    Hi Maryjo, I found the above site to have useful information, although I am not sure about trying to prevent the Adequan from stinging. Do you know that it will sting? Have you used it before?

    Hope this helps Smokie. Keep us posted. I may ask my vet about this regimen for my Ketchie who has the same trouble. She can barely jump anymore. She is going on 15.

    Jean and Charcoal (GA)
     
  3. KarenRamboConan

    KarenRamboConan Senior Member Moderator

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    I think that may be the same thing as "Cartrophen Vet" in Canada, and I used it on Dev with great results. He didn't even seem to notice the shots, so I don't think that it does sting.

    By the way, I also used insulin needles to give the shot - they really are the best!
     
  4. Vicky & Gandalf (GA) & Murrlin

    Vicky & Gandalf (GA) & Murrlin Well-Known Member

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    Please confirm how Adequan shot is to be given

    How do you mean SubQ injections? Adequan is only to be injected in to muscle, not under the skin like insulin. And I don't think it should be given with sub-Q fluids either.

    Please confirm with your vet how you're supposed to give the shots. It is very different than giving insulin.

    Gandalf has been using Adequan for over 1 year now. I now have his acupuncture vet give the shots because she does them in acupuncture points on his back leg muscles. I believe the 2 treatments have helped maintain his condition.
     
  5. Vicky & Gandalf (GA) & Murrlin

    Vicky & Gandalf (GA) & Murrlin Well-Known Member

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    Re: Please confirm how Adequan shot is to be given

     
  6. Jen & Squeak

    Jen & Squeak Well-Known Member

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    Different than cartrophen Karen...we went with cartrophen for tia because cheaper; our vet insisted on doing the shots but I think they were subq...not sure about adequan tho
     
  7. Larry and Kitties

    Larry and Kitties Well-Known Member

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    On the old board thee was a thread on Adequan and it discussed than it is frequently used SubQ with success.
     
  8. Karen & Angus(GA)

    Karen & Angus(GA) Member

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    Angus has been on subQ Adequan for three months. My vet pulled down research from VIN that shows subQ Adequan is just as effective as IM. I am using the larger gauge syringes provided by my vet. Even so, Angus does not seem to mind the injections any more than insulin injections. Adequan does not need to be refrigerated, so make sure it is room temp before injecting.
     
  9. Cassandra and Sasha

    Cassandra and Sasha Well-Known Member

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    We use Adequan SubQ as well, and our vet also did research on VIN that found it was just as effective as IM injections, although it takes a little longer to reach the joints. We've been using it for about 6 months now. I really feel it has greatly helped Sasha's arthritis.
     
  10. maryjoandsmokie

    maryjoandsmokie Member

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    Thanks so much EVERYONE for all this great information!
    My vet called me last night about Smokie and when i asked he did say the
    adequan will sting some. Smokie runs and hides out if i do anything to her she
    doesn't like and i was hoping it wouldn't sting.
     
  11. Sarah and Buzz

    Sarah and Buzz Well-Known Member

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    I use Adequan for my drooler, and like Cassandra mentioned, it can be given either subQ or IM. My vet said the reason they gave it as IM in the trials (and thus why it's recommended to give IM) is because it starts to work in about 45 minutes that way vs. about 4 hours when you give it subQ. However, either way is fine.

    My drooler doesn't act like it stings; she just lies there while we give the shot and doesn't even flinch. I have noticed a big difference in her after the shot, so I think it really helps. :)
     
  12. maryjoandsmokie

    maryjoandsmokie Member

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    GOOD! GOOD! GOOD! THANKS EVERYONE!
     
  13. Sarah and Buzz

    Sarah and Buzz Well-Known Member

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    Also forgot to mention that we use the generic of Adequan, which is called Ichon. The cheapest place that I found brand-name Adequan was 1800PetMeds, which today lists 2 5-ml vials for $109.99 plus free shipping. We got 1 5-ml vial of the generic from our vet for $35. My drooler is on a much larger dose than a cat would be (she weighs 70 lbs) so for us, it was much more economical to go with the generic because we can only get about 7 injections out of a bottle.
     
  14. Cassandra and Sasha

    Cassandra and Sasha Well-Known Member

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  15. Vicky & Gandalf (GA) & Murrlin

    Vicky & Gandalf (GA) & Murrlin Well-Known Member

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    What a great thread with great info!

    Had to post how much I appreciate no one giving me a noodle thrashing for stating Adequan is only injected into the muscle. My bad. Also, just to clarify, when everyone says SubQ you mean under the skin, not via SubQ fluid administration. For those of us who give SubQ fluids the terminology shortcut can get confusing because some things such as B12 can be injected via the fluid line.

    And last bottle I purchased was earlier this year so I was not aware there is a generic. Thank you! :thumbup Again, great info on an increasingly commonly used arthritis medication. Also, I assume the VIN information regards dogs only? Has Adequan been approved for cats yet?
     
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  16. Cassandra and Sasha

    Cassandra and Sasha Well-Known Member

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    Vicky, I do think some of the VIN info covers cats too. While it is not yet approved for kitties (but really, what ever is, right? ;-) ), many vets are using it in cats these days. Thank goodness! As we both know, it's pretty effective stuff! :smile:
     
  17. Lisa dvm

    Lisa dvm Member

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    Doesn't this get annoying!?!?!

    Given that pet cats now out number pet dogs you'd think they would get more respect - and more funding $$$!

    Especially given the common saying that "cats are not just small dogs". In otherr words, there are enough species differences to make us aware that just because something is good for a dog....this does not mean it is good for a cat.

    (That is a general statement....I would use Adequan in a cat.)
     
  18. Cassandra and Sasha

    Cassandra and Sasha Well-Known Member

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    It annoys me beyond belief as a lay person. So I imagine it must make you pretty furious!

    What bothers me most about it is that isn't the reasoning of the pharmaceutical companies that cat owners do not spend as much on their cats as dog owners do? If so, that's faulty thinking....at least in a circle like this. I spent a good chunk on trying to figure out what was ailing my drooler a few years back, and during the course of her life, but it was nothing compared to Sasha's care.

    Luckily, like you, our vet is more than happy to use things that are off-label in cats when presented with info on VIN about safety. Unfortunately, there are vets out there not willing to do that....and that seriously limits the amount of medications and treatments available. Or, otoh, you get vets that will use too many off-label products without thought of what it can do to a cat.
     
  19. Sarah and Buzz

    Sarah and Buzz Well-Known Member

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    Re: What a great thread with great info!

    Noodle thrashings only take place on Thursdays, so you are in luck! ;)

    Also, thanks for the terminology re: subQ. Not ever having given subQ fluids, I hadn't thought about how the terms could get confusing, but it makes sense. :D
     
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  20. Lisa dvm

    Lisa dvm Member

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    [quote="Cassandra and SashaWhat bothers me most about it is that isn't the reasoning of the pharmaceutical companies that cat owners do not spend as much on their cats as dog owners do? [/quote]

    I assume that this does play a big role in the decision making and....unfortunately....it is true.

    The AAFP is constantly addressing this situation. People, on average, take their dogs to the vet FAR more often than their cats...and....are willing to spend more money on dogs. Again, in general.

    Why do you think I hang out on this board?! :D

    It is to remind myself that there actually are caring cat people out there.
     
  21. Carolyn and Spot

    Carolyn and Spot Well-Known Member

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    I assume that this does play a big role in the decision making and....unfortunately....it is true.

    The AAFP is constantly addressing this situation. People, on average, take their dogs to the vet FAR more often than their cats...and....are willing to spend more money on dogs. Again, in general.

    Why do you think I hang out on this board?! :D

    It is to remind myself that there actually are caring cat people out there.[/quote]


    Conversely the pet product manufacturers have figured out that cat people will spend more as evidenced by products such as Pill Pockets and freeze dried chicken treats.

    Cat Pill Pockets....1.6oz...$6.19 (petfooddirect.com)
    Dog Pill Pockets....3.2oz...$7.19 (petfooddirect.com)

    Halo Cat Chicken Treats....2.4oz...$12.89 (petfooddirect.com)
    Pure Bites Dog Chicken....11.6oz...$21.49 (http://www.kingwholesale.com/Shopping/i ... fm?id=7280)
     
  22. gingerand((calliope))(GA)

    gingerand((calliope))(GA) Member

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    Today, my vet approved the generic adaquan for me to administer subq. I'm thrilled! She'd been mulling it over for a few weeks, never having done this before. I hope someone else will benefit from my "firsts" with her. Sometimes, it takes a while, but she's worked with me even when she's not necessarily agreed.
     
  23. maryjoandsmokie

    maryjoandsmokie Member

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    Re: Adequan SubQ injection questions(MORE)

    I picked up the adequan and the lady who gave the syringes to me said it had to be
    refrigerated! She also said give it while it is still cold. The needles were larger than the
    insulin needles. TOO LARGE for just SubQ.

    Can i squirt the adequan into an insulin syringe ?
    Can i keep it out of the refrigerator and give it warm (after they have chilled it?)
     
  24. Cassandra and Sasha

    Cassandra and Sasha Well-Known Member

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    I give Adequan in an insulin syringe occasionally, or sometimes in a tuberculin depending on what I have extras of. There are larger gauge needles that can still be used for SubQ injections. Do you know what gauge you have?

    The product insert (if you are using the Canine version and not the Equine) says to store at controlled room temp up to 25°C (77°F): http://www.adequancanine.us/images/Adeq ... tLabel.pdf
     
  25. maryjoandsmokie

    maryjoandsmokie Member

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    I don't know what kind i have. They pulled it up in syringes. I'll call them tomorrow.
    The needle has a large barrel and i don't know the gauge.
    I don't want to give it cold.
    Can i put it in another syringe? and warm it?

    What i need to do is order the vials. I don't like them pulling it up.
     
  26. Sarah and Buzz

    Sarah and Buzz Well-Known Member

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    I do not keep the Adequan refrigerated, nor did my vet store it in the fridge before we bought it.

    I use large needles, but I do not know what gauge they are. They are tuberculin needles, though. The Adequan is so thick and because it's dosed by weight and I have a 70 lb dog (she gets 0.6u in a shot) that the insulin needles just weren't going to work for us (or so I was told). I bought 10 syringes from the vet at 13 cents a piece, so I am fine with using different ones. :)
     
  27. Karen & Angus(GA)

    Karen & Angus(GA) Member

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    I would warm the syringe before injecting. You can do this by rolling the syringe in your hand or stick the CAPPED syringe in your arm pit just to bring the liquid to body temp.
     
  28. maryjoandsmokie

    maryjoandsmokie Member

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    Sarah,
    Smokie is getting 0.5u
    That's almost as much as you are giving. Maybe the strength is different.
     
  29. gingerand((calliope))(GA)

    gingerand((calliope))(GA) Member

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    My vet will let me pick up the generic adaquan on Monday. I don't know the dose yet. She will give me pre-filled syringes. She said they dilute it with saline because it's thick and it burns or stings, otherwise. She said I should watch Calliope when I give the first two injections to make sure there are no reactions. If there are none after the first two doses, we should be fine as far as reactions. I'm to give 2 injections subq per week for 2 or 4 weeks. She wasn't sure and said she was going to confirm that before I come. After that, I will give 1 injection per week. She said I could give it anywhere under the skin. This is the first time she's allowed a client to give this at home and to give it subq.

    That's where we are right now. Sound right?
     
  30. Sarah and Buzz

    Sarah and Buzz Well-Known Member

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    Let me say again that the only experience I have is with a dog and I don't know how much different the protocol might be from that of a feline. That being said, here's my 0.02:

    I do not dilute with saline as that was not mentioned. It makes sense that it would help, though.

    The dosing guidelines I follow, per my vet and Adequan's website, are 1 dose every 4 days for 6 doses, then as needed for pain. "As needed" right now is about every 7-10 days.

    I inject on the flank/hip, but I do not know if this is a good place for a kitty. It is a site which is fine for insulin injections, so I would imagine it would be fine.

    Our vet also does not prescribe Adequan often because she says she doesn't have any clients who will give injections at home. It's fun to be a guinea pig, isn't it? :)

    Good luck, and let us know how it goes! :)
     
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  31. Sarah and Buzz

    Sarah and Buzz Well-Known Member

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    I misspoke, I apologize. I am giving 0.6 mL, not units. Sorry for the error! :)
     
  32. Cassandra and Sasha

    Cassandra and Sasha Well-Known Member

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    That's pretty low compared to the Luitpold recommendations as per the insert. A dog Cassie's size should be getting 1.4ml per injection (according to the insert). Is the generic a different concentration?
     
  33. Sarah and Buzz

    Sarah and Buzz Well-Known Member

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    Hmm, I don't know! A question I will have to ask. Thanks for mentioning it. :)
     
  34. Karen & Angus(GA)

    Karen & Angus(GA) Member

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    Angus got 2 shots per week for the first 4 weeks and now gets one shot every 4 weeks. He is still limping a bit, so we may increase that to 1 shot every other week. Angus weighs 17.5 lbs and gets 0.40 ml per shot. I do not dilute and do not refrigerate. He doesn't seem to mind the injections at all.
     
  35. Lisa and Merlyn (GA)

    Lisa and Merlyn (GA) Well-Known Member

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    http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=10309

    Um, why buy the generic when you can get the real thing for the same price? Unless you are in Candada and they wont ship there....

    Carly has been helped by Adequan sub Q and she doesnt really notice the injection. However she is still in pain, so I do not think its helping her spine much, just maybe her legs. I first got other maybe tuberculin syringes and was giving 2.5ml, and the next time they gave me insulin syringes and I am giving 25 units.
     
  36. HereKitty

    HereKitty New Member

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    For whatever it's worth: way before Adequan, in the late 80's, I took two cats to the vet specialists with arthritis. They were 12-yr old male sibs. From their habit of jumping to my shoulders from the floor, they could no longer jump at all, and were beginning to have difficulty walking. The vet specialist prescribed MSM, with which I was familiar as a derivative of DMSO. At that time, all that was available was in powder form. I picked it up from the vets and made capsules. A couple of years later, I was able to buy the MSM as tablets for dogs (from Valley Vet, I think: great prices and dependable ... been using Valley Vet ever since). Then MSM tablets became available from WalMart. Cheap, too. One brother died of kidney failure at 17, but the other lived to be 23 1/2. The MSM worked a miracle. Never again did they jump to my shoulders, but they had no trouble making jumps to cabinets, beds, etc. And never again any difficulty in walking. They were each on MSM until their deaths.

    I now have another severely arthritic cat, more so, in fact. It is only in reading your comments that I equated my two guys from years ago with my Randall's current condition. His vet has prescribed Adequan for him, and I'm glad to read that sub Q will be OK. I have a diabetic cat, as well, so am well versed in giving those shots (though I was a bit worried about the IM business). the vet suggested in his thigh, but he has lost a lot of muscle mass, and I hated the idea. And I am going to start him on MSM!
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2015
    Reason for edit: For clarity.
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  37. maryjoandsmokie

    maryjoandsmokie Member

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    I just happened to see this and I'm glad i did. What was the dosage for the MSM?
    I want to start Fluffy on this.
     
  38. HereKitty

    HereKitty New Member

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    It's been a while. I'll check tomorrow and tell you here. I want to start Randall on it, too. For Burton & Chessie, I cut the tablet in half, then smoothed the rough edge of each half with a knife. It was probably the smallest tablet, but I'll need to check: there are more options out there now than there used to be. I think I used half of a 500 mg tab, but I won't be sure until I look.
     
  39. Angel's mommie

    Angel's mommie Member

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    What is MSM, please? I began our arthritic civvie Akie on Adequan subQ today. She's also on Dasuquin and fish oil.
     
  40. jayla-n-Drevon

    jayla-n-Drevon Well-Known Member

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    I have been using adequan for probably 10/15 years or more on many cats-5yrs on my own who are now 19 and 20 (in July) I started at the very early signs to slow the progression and they still trot up and down 4 flights of stairs.

    IM injections are a very small percentage more effective than SQ(not worth the stress of it in my opinion)--I give my boys a shot weekly at the age they are (we started monthly after the loading dose)
    My holistic vet works with many horses and most all (working horses) are on it so he has to be very up to date with info.
    They get SQ and as far as I can tell there is no sting-
    If you are concerned you can keep the vial and needle in the fridge to lessen the sting although as I said I have not had any reaction .... Rico is a bit fussy so I make sure to be ready to insert as soon as the needle is in.
    The pic is 19 year old Dre with FD--I LOVE adequan!
    Dre bunny braid.JPG
     
  41. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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  42. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    Is MSM a better option then cosequin?
     
  43. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    I don't know, Sean. ECID. Might be worth discussing with your vet.
     
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  44. Larry and Kitties

    Larry and Kitties Well-Known Member

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  45. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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  46. Larry and Kitties

    Larry and Kitties Well-Known Member

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  47. Angel's mommie

    Angel's mommie Member

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    HereKitty, how much MSM do you give your kitty and how often? Thank you.
     
  48. StephG

    StephG Well-Known Member

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    I recently bought MSM for my drooler and thought about trying it with Chuck. Anyone have any negative side effects from it?
     
  49. jayla-n-Drevon

    jayla-n-Drevon Well-Known Member

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    nothing neg for us
     
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  50. StephG

    StephG Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for responding! I'm paranoid about starting new stuff. He has had glucosamine/Chondroitin supplements with no issues so I think I'll try it. I've had it a few weeks now but have been scared to start it. :nailbiting:
     
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  51. StephG

    StephG Well-Known Member

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    Just wanted to update... Chuck has been on MSM for 2 weeks now and he's actually going down in his dose. I can't say it's all from MSM but it's really the only change we have made!
    He's jumping more and limping less too.
    I ordered some MSM powder from holistic horse website. Much easier than crushing the pills I have.
     
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