Am I making any headway?

Discussion in 'Prozinc / PZI' started by Alfred's Human, Oct 7, 2017.

  1. Alfred's Human

    Alfred's Human Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2017
    Hello, looking for some advice on Alfred's numbers. Alfred gets 2 units Prozinc AM and PM. We started insulin 9/17.

    Tonight Alfred is 220 for a PMPS. I'm stalling to see if he comes up a little before I shoot.

    His spreadsheet is up to date. I'm still very new to this ProZinc dance and any advice on his numbers would be much appreciated. I don't feel like I'm making much headway and am just flailing around trying to figure out what to do. :oops:
     
  2. Alfred's Human

    Alfred's Human Member

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    Sep 24, 2017
    20 mins later he was 334 so gave the 2 units. That seems like a dramatic increase for 20 mins ... but he's always been a bit dramatic :facepalm:
     
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  3. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Aug 1, 2015
    Hi Alfred's human! That last hour of the cycle can often be pretty dramatic, so good job stalling instead of skipping! For kitties in higher numbers, it works fairly often.

    Any chance you'll be around the house tomorrow? I'm inclined to think you need an increase, but I'd like to see some mid-cycle data at this dose. If you could do a curve (test every two hours) or a mini-curve (test every three hours) or grab 2-3 test from sequential hours around the nadir, or any combination of that, it would be really helpful! Or since it looks like you have a couple of years experience at this already, you could just go ahead and increase tomorrow morning, monitor, and if needed you could always steer with food. But only do that if you're comfortable with steering.
     
  4. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 25, 2013
    I'm with Djamila, My guess is you'll need an increase, but I wouldn't do that unless I could monitor. Mid cycle numbers will tell us much. :)
     
  5. Alfred's Human

    Alfred's Human Member

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    Sep 24, 2017
    Hello,

    Thank you both for the replies! I was thinking he'd probably need an increase, but it's always nice to have other eyes seeing what i'm seeing. :) I've already shot him for this morning (AMPS 420, 2 units), but I will get a +5, +6, +7 for today. Tomorrow I was planning on doing a curve. Should I go ahead and increase him tomorrow and how much would you recommend to increase by, 0.25 or should I go 0.5?

    I did get a +5 last night and it was 467, his numbers are icky. :(
     
  6. Alfred's Human

    Alfred's Human Member

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    Sep 24, 2017
    +5 310
    +6 288
    couldn't get blood at +7

    PMPS 243

    I have to leave so can't stall so am shooting a skinny 1.5 and will test when I get back in 5 hours.
     
  7. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 25, 2013
    He was above 200 so you really wouldn't need to stall. That yellow sure is nice to see! What kind of number did you get at +5?
     
  8. Alfred's Human

    Alfred's Human Member

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    Sep 24, 2017
    I'm still skittish about a hypo ... being too fearful I know :(. I need to get more aggressive and get him out of these high numbers.

    I got a +3 last night and he was 292 so went to bed and left his ears alone for the night.

    AMPS 509 :(

    I expected him to be high since I was a wuss and shorted him last night. Gave 2.25u this morning and will be home all day doing a curve.

    Negative for ketones, tested him last night and this morning.

    I know I need to just do this and stop being so fearful. I have read all the info and I know what I need to do, I'm just terrified of doing the wrong thing; but I know that I AM doing the wrong thing by letting him stay in these high numbers. :banghead: I have to get myself together and not let my fear and lack of confidence hurt him.
     
  9. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 25, 2013
    You've got your hypo kit ready to go right? And the instructions printed out if you need them? You may very well not ever see a hypo, but it is a scary thought. Remember, though, that if you DO have one, we're here! If you get a low number, pop right onto the board...post both here AND in Main and use a 911...people will stay with you through the entire thing. Even in the middle of the night, we have members on since we're all over the place. You won't ever have to deal with it alone.

    Your numbers aren't too low and sticking with small increases means it's less likely you'll see a hypo...and if you do you can handle it and we can help!
     
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  10. Alfred's Human

    Alfred's Human Member

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    Sep 24, 2017
    Thank you so much for the encouragement. This board is indispensable, thank you all for being here. :)

    I do have a hypo kit and instructions so I am prepared if it happens. :bookworm:

    I did a curve today, although it was a bit of a moot point since I screwed up his dosing last night. He was high and flat all day, but it was good practice for us both. He's a former kibble addict so I'm using a few pieces of the Young Again Zero kibble as his special treat after his tests. This makes him much more agreeable to the testing. :joyful:

    Sticking to 2.25 units for 3 cycles and will evaluate after that.
     
  11. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    I know it's hard with the Sticky that's got all the bold print and scary title, but really if you're monitoring and shooting reasonable doses, and feeding low carb food, the chances of a clinical/dangerous hypo are really quite low. The vet definition of hypo isn't until 50 on a pet-specific meter, which would be super low on a human meter. We treat our kitties with a lot of caution in order to keep everyone safe around here, but as long as there aren't other medical conditions, kitties are pretty tough.

    You are dosing cautiously with the 0.25 increases, holding for a few cycles, and then moving on. And you're monitoring so you'll know if things start to get too exciting.

    Now all that being said, I had to leave for a meeting last night and couldn't monitor during Sam's nadir and it made me nervous -- even though I have literally months of data showing he's safe. And even though I know that even if he went lower, a healthy cat can handle an occasional low number just fine. I think we all get a little nervous about it, even though we really don't need to be. Reason vs. emotion.

    So all that to say: hang in there! you're doing great! and I love your note on your spreadsheet about the reduction. Cracked me up! I have a few of those on my Prozinc spreadsheet too where I would reduce and then leave a note to myself as a reminder not to do it next time. In fact it's so common around here to do that that there is an acronym you'll see occasionally in people's threads: BCS = "Big Chicken" Shot :):bighug:
     
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  12. Alfred's Human

    Alfred's Human Member

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    Sep 24, 2017
    It's good to know I'm in good company when it comes to worrying about our kitties. :) I know everyone here loves their kitties and cats in general and is devoted to giving their kitties the best care they can. I appreciate that so much and know everyone is here to help. Thank you! :bighug:

    Yes Big Chicken Shot is exactly what it is lol!! I'm going to try to do far fewer of those from now on!

    Alfred is still running high, going to stick with 2.25 tonight and tomorrow morning and then see where he's at tomorrow night. I'll be able to get some readings overnight tomorrow so will go to 2.5 then. My gut is telling me I'm probably going to have to go to at least 3 maybe 4 units to get him regulated, but I'm going to take it slow so I don't miss his sweet spot. His numbers are so icky right now, but at least he's acting normal and eating well (knock on wood).
     
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  13. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Aug 1, 2015
    Good job shooting on that yellow PS yesterday! Someone around here always says, "the kitty needs as much as s/he needs." It always sounds so calm and comforting to me. As you said, just keep it slow and steady, and he'll break through when he's ready, and then we can all celebrate as those blues and greens show up more often!
     
  14. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 25, 2013
    I know it's tough seeing those higher numbers, but the good news is you're getting mid cycle tests, you checked for ketones and he's negative, and you are doing exactly what you need! I believe you'll get there soon. :)
     
  15. Alfred's Human

    Alfred's Human Member

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    Sep 24, 2017
    Thank you both for the encouragement! :)

    So tonight Alfred threw me a 165 for his pre-shot. I'm stalling to see if he comes up a bit before I shoot. It's nice to see a lower number, but I'd also like to shoot him tonight, I feel like anytime I don't shoot or lower the dose I loose ground. He was 415 this morning, he really likes to keep me on my toes. :confused:
     
  16. Alfred's Human

    Alfred's Human Member

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    Sep 24, 2017
    1/2 hr. stall 181
     
  17. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Aug 1, 2015
    What did you decide to do?
     
  18. Alfred's Human

    Alfred's Human Member

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    Sep 24, 2017
    Still stalling and trying to decide. 1 hr stall he is 173. I've never shot him this low before so if I do I expect I'll be up all night. Not sure what to do. :nailbiting:
     
  19. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Aug 1, 2015
    I think it really depends on how much you want to be up. Onset is usually around +2, so you could shoot and set an alarm, then see where things are at and decide from there. Or if you need to sleep, shoot a reduced dose.
     
  20. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Aug 1, 2015
    By the way, it's great to see a blue!!!
     
  21. Alfred's Human

    Alfred's Human Member

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    Sep 24, 2017
    Yes I was happy to see the lower number!

    Ugh I'm so far off schedule now I think I'm going to have to skip, I have to be to work at 8am and it's now almost 8:30pm and I haven't shot yet. Bleh I feel like I take 1 step forward and 20 steps back :banghead:

    I'm so indecisive, I get angry with myself for not making better decisions. :mad:

    I had to feed him since he was getting very upset. He didn't eat as much as he usually does today so he's extra hungry tonight.

    I feel like I could still shoot, maybe 2 units and then just stay up with him ... could I push the schedule tomorrow and try to shoot 45 minutes early?
     
  22. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Aug 1, 2015
    You can be off by one hour with prozinc, so if you're off by 90 minutes right now, then shoot 30 minutes late in the morning, and then you can back on time for tomorrow evening.

    You could also just shoot a 50% dose and go to sleep. And please don't be mad at yourself! These are hard decisions for any of us when the numbers show up different than what we're used to seeing.
     
  23. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Aug 1, 2015
    Oh, I just reread your post. What time do you need to leave the house in the morning? If you shoot now, at 8:30, then you could shoot as early as 7:30am if his numbers are high enough to shoot.
     
  24. Alfred's Human

    Alfred's Human Member

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    Sep 24, 2017
    I usually leave at 7:30 am but can push it a bit. I'm going to test him now that he's eaten just for my own peace of mind and then shoot, and stay up with him to see how he does. I'll report back with his number and dose.
     
  25. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Aug 1, 2015
    I'm going to sleep soon. If you get anything too low, you can post out on Main to get more eyes on it. There is usually someone around out there most hours day or night.
     
  26. Alfred's Human

    Alfred's Human Member

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    Sep 24, 2017
    He was 274 after food, shot a fat 1.75 (BCS). Will test again in 2 hours.

    Thanks so much for your help! Have a good night! :)
     
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  27. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 25, 2013
    Sorry I was fast asleep last night when you posted! It's been a rough few days at my house. I see you were at a pink at +2...looking forward to seeing your number in the AM!
     
  28. Alfred's Human

    Alfred's Human Member

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    Sep 24, 2017
    I'm sorry things have been rough at your house, I hope things get better soon! :) Sending happy vines.

    I was going to try to get a +6 last night but overslept so missed it. Got a +9 389

    I'm going to try to push his morning shot as late as I can since I shot him late last night, but I will have to probably shoot around +11 if I'm going to get to work on time. Since he's high I don't think it'll be a problem, but going to make sure he eats something and will come home on my lunch break to test him.

    I keep flubbing these yellows & blues. :banghead:
     
  29. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Aug 1, 2015
    Yes, since he's already into normal PS range, you should be fine to shoot early.

    Please don't stress about the BCS shots. As you get that data that shows he's going to rise from a lower PS, you'll gain confidence in shooting the lower numbers, but getting that data that shows its safe is an important step. Plus, we need sleep. ;)

    Have a good day today!
     
  30. Alfred's Human

    Alfred's Human Member

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    Sep 24, 2017
    I have to relax my attitude and look at all these flubs as good data collection and experience building. :) We'll get there I just have to be patient ... which isn't something I'm good at, but this will be good practice for me!

    Alfred was high today, but that's to be expected. We'll work our way back to the blues and try again!

    Hope your day was good!
     
  31. Alfred's Human

    Alfred's Human Member

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    Sep 24, 2017
    So he threw me an 88 at AMPS today. o_O

    Stalled 1/2 hour with no food ... 54!

    Fed and will test again, but I expect he'll come up pretty fast since food really seems to shoot him up quick. Appetite good this morning.

    It was interesting because while I was stalling I was sitting at the computer and Alfred came into the room and was purring up a storm. He doesn't usually walk around and purr for no reason so it was odd behavior for him. So I tested and got the 54 ... maybe he purrs when he's low? Anyway at least he came and got me when he was feeling off.

    He didn't eat nearly as much as he usually does overnight. He ate 1 oz at shoot time last night, I always make sure he eats at least 1 oz before I shoot. Then he woke me up last night for food around midnight and I fed him probably 1 oz of his raw food which he ate all of. He was wanting food again this morning around 4am but I didn't feed him since he still had a whole can of Friskies out and figured he could munch on that.

    He didn't touch the Friskies. I assumed he was fine since his PMPS was 376, which was why I didn't get up to test or feed again last night. He just doesn't want to make this easy for me!! :banghead:

    Skipping his AM dose today.
     
  32. Alfred's Human

    Alfred's Human Member

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    Sep 24, 2017
    ~1hr after eating he's at 74

    negative ketones
     
  33. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 25, 2013
    Wow! Those are some great numbers, even though it's odd. It does make you wonder what happened overnight, but after all, we can't be up testing them ALL the time! We need sleep too! Did he eat fine at breakfast? He might just be tired of FF and wants his favorite food lol.
     
  34. Alfred's Human

    Alfred's Human Member

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    Sep 24, 2017
    Yes he ate well at breakfast. I think he's finally starting to get back to feeling like himself. He's been "off" for about a month after starting the insulin and a pancreatitis flare up, so he's been eating Friskies and Fancy Feast pates instead of his usual food. I think he's ready to get back to his usual food which is a good sign, but will take it slow. If I rush him he'll get dramatic with me and throw a fit! ;)
     

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