Another Newbie Here

Hello. Just wanted to introduce myself. Our cat Fenner was just diagnosed with diabetes yesterday. He is currently in the vet clinic to get his sugar level down, and for the vet to find out how much insulin he will need daily. Along with the diabetes, he had a UTI and was dehydrated. He was in the clinic for 5 days this summer with seasonal vestibular syndrome. When he was still unbalanced and starting to lose weight, we attributed it to the vestibular syndrome. However, when we weighed him and realized he had lost 25% of his body weight, we knew something else was wrong. Luckily it was caught before progressing.
We saw him today and he was in great spirits. Hopefully he will come home on Monday.
I have to say that I'm a little scared at giving him insulin injections twice daily! Like anything that is new, it can be a little frightening. Does it get easier?
Also, I see where people on the forum are not recommending dry food. Our vet is recommending Hill Science Diet prescription m/d which is for diabetic cats. What is your experience with that food?
Any words of advice you can give a newly diagnosed cats' mom?

 

Hi!
Welcome to the "family". Just want to address a couple things you asked about.
"Does it get easier?" Definitely YES. The 2 shots a day will be nowhere near as bad as you fear.
"Hill's m/d"...... Absolutely NOT a good food for a diabetic cat. Even though it was formulated for "diabetic management", the carb content is way too high for a diabetic. I was given the same thing. I used it for 3 days or so and tossed it out the back door for a gang of raccoons to feast on.

Has Fenner always eaten just dry? A diabetic's diet should be low carb canned food. "Low" carb is a food that contains less than 10% "carb" value. If you click on the "Binky's" link below my signature, it goes to a page full of nutrition info. Look for links to "canned food" charts, and open them up and if possible print them out. These will be your cat food shopping list! You'll look like we did once, going through the shelves at the grocery store looking for exactly what you need, shopping list in hand! Most of us use store bought canned made by Fancy Feast (classics), Friskees (pates), Wal-Mart Special Kitty or Petsmart Sophisticat. There's dozens of makers of good low carb food. They won't break your budget like the 'scrip food will either. Pay particular attention the the "carb" column on the charts.

Others will post soon, asking you some questions specific to insulin, blood-glucose numbers, lots of "starting out" things. Lots of advice will be flying at you too. Don't try to soak it all in at once. You're already overwhelmed just like each of us was on the day we found out our kitties had become "sugarcats". It's a lot to absorb, but I will promise you that this is not as bad as it seems today.

So take a few deep breaths, and be glad that you found "us". You'll be amazed by this place.

Carl in SC

 

Hi and Welcome.

It does get easier.
Your kitty Fenner has beautiful eyes and is very handsome. It looks like he wants to come home.
You'll get plenty of support and guidance here. Just keep asking questions, we'll be here to help you.

 

I thought of a couple of things....
When you speak to the vet -
Find out what sort of insulin they plan to prescribe. Lantus, Levimir, and PZI/Prozinc are all good insulins for cats. If they suggest caninsulin, or Humulin, those are better for dogs. Cats metabolize (think that's the right word) insulin twice as fast as dogs, so you would want a slow acting, longer lasting and gentler insulin. The 3 I listed all fit that description.

Ask about home-testing Fenner's blood glucose. You use a plain old human glucometer to do that, and you would test his BG before any injection of insulin. If your vet is good with that, be encouraged. Some are not, and believe kitty has to be brought back in for glucose checks on regular basis. This is something that you can do at home, saving you a lot of money. It is also the safest way to manage diabetes. You have to know what the BG number is before knowing that it is safe to dose Fenner. You will also learn how to test him at various times of the day so that you can monitor how the insulin is acting, and how effective the dose is with lowering his "sugar".

If you can tell us where you live (city and state), there's a decent chance that someone on the board lives close by. Sometimes people will offer to drive to you, and show you step by step how the testing and shooting are done. Free hands-on training! It is also useful in that it will give us an idea of where you are in the day time-wise in relation to us. Sometimes someone on the west coast needs advice, for instance, and other people in that time zone would be online to assist or answer questions. Sometimes it's one of the east-coast members who have a "crisis" at 2 am, and it's encouraging to know you can expect people across the country to be here to help. We have members all over the world, literally.

Carl

 

Welcome aboard! Carl has said it GREAT! But I wanted to add something....IF I HAD NOT FOUND THIS PLACE, and just listened to the vet, I WOULD NOT have my Sugar Bean with me today... I strongly feel this and will forever be grateful for everyone here and I still am today. My Bean is now in remission and her last shot was in May! GO BEAN GO.
Due to this site and a few very important things I did at home: low carb foods, ketone checking when she peeees (lol), and most importantly home testing. I have a spreadsheet that I set up (need to update it), that if you would like to view, will show you just how important testing is and definately how important this board of wonderful ppl are.
It will get eaiser that I can promise.
Many furry hugs to you both! Wishing Fenner home soon nailbite_smile

 

Welcome to the Family!!!

Does it get easier? Oh yes it does, so much easier in fact that a year ago today I adopted my handsome man Maxwell as a diabetic from this very board...then in June of this year my family added his adopted sister Musette also a diabetic.

As far as dry food goes...nope, low carb canned all the way, and the Friskies pate is just perfect, in fact it was changing my entire herd of 13....yes....13 cats over to Friskies pate is what got Maxwell into remission where he is today, although we sadly discovered that one of my non-diabetics was allergic to the grains in it so now everyone is eating Walmart's Special Kitty which is also low carb but grain-free.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang

 

Welcome Extra sweet Fenner and MamaBean!

Does it get easier? In May, I would literally have fainted at the sight of a needle, my doctors hide them from me. KT was diagnosed June 8th. The evening of June 8th, I cringed, gritted my teeth, filled that awfully looking thing tried not to look at it too much, mentally went thru every cuss word I know and...stuck my kitty with that needle.

He just continued to purr....

I pulled it out, I'd DONE it and WOW! It wasn't nearly the imagined horror I'd made it out to be. My family still laughs about it as I now handle them without a hiccup, give him shots in different places, in seconds.

He just continues to purr....

Ask vet to show you all the places you can shoot. You'll be going just under the skin, not into muscle. Some vets just advise the scruff...we'll teach you if he doesn't. I suggest that you get the short 5/16th" (8mm) needles 30/31ga with half unit marks rather than the longer one...no need for harpoons....

Again, welcome!

 

Thank you for all of the wonderful words of encouragement. Fenner came home tonight. As I write this, he is laying beside me and purring the loudest purr I've heard from him in a while. He is truly happy to be home, and is acting like his old self again. It is very encouraging.
I did inject him for the first time in the vet's office this evening. It was difficult, but he was amazing. His strength will keep us strong!
He is on Lantus insulin. I know some of you do not recommend dry food, but for now my husband and I have made the decision to follow our vet's recommendation of Hills m/d dry and wet food. We are to feed him 3 times per day. I am hopeful this will work for him just fine. We truly trust our vet, yet appreciate yout input and recommendations as well.
I'll keep you updated, and thanks for your help so far. I'm sure I'll have plenty of questions along the way.

 

Good to hear Fenner is home and purring loudly!

Please try to maximize the wet, and minimize the dry. It isn't just "us" that says dry is bad. Here is a great site to visit, so you can read all about cat nutrition from a vet who is an authority on it:
http://www.catinfo.org/

And no mater what your vet might believe, Hill's Prescription food is not good food, wet or dry, for a diabetic cat. The numbers prove that. The wet has twice the carbs as food that costs half as much. It's main ingredient is liver, and most cats will scarf on it for a few days, and then refuse to eat it anymore. I'd be willing to bet you'll be asking your vet for a refund before you use it all up. I had no choice but to bring it back. Bob refused to eat it after two days. Two days after that, he ended up spending 3 days in the ER due to DKA. He's eaten nothing but Fancy Feast classics since then, and he's not had any insulin in two months tomorrow. Your vet is wrong on the Hill's, and I just hope Fenner doesn't suffer because of it. I have complete trust in my vet too. But she was wrong on food. And now she encourages people to feed low-carb commercial brands of canned food to diabetic cats.

Please keep asking questions, and posting frequently to let us know how Fenner is doing!
.Carl

 

I do appreciate your views Carl. I guess I feel comfortable with the m/d wet and dry because of the amount of insulin we will be giving him daily. The vet instructed that we give him 3 units of Lantus every 12 hours. I'm very very new to this, so I assumed they are basing those units on the amount of m/d he is eating daily and the effects it has on his glucose level. For example, if we were to change his food to a less expensive commercial wet food that has less carbs, wouldn't that change the amount of Lantus we would give him?

 

First off 3 units of Lantus twice a day is way too high of a starting dose with Lantus, so at this point the dry is probably the only thing between Fenner and going into hypo.

Secondly, yes if you change his food then his needs for insulin will change....it will be much lower, but before changing his food with that high of a dose ...you MUST be testing his bgs at home to avoid giving him insulin when he is too low to safely give it. As many cats just removing the dry food from their diet will drop their blood sugar numbers by 100points.

My Maxwell was 485 when he was first diagnoised, his diet was changed to low carb/high protein canned food, and after a mere 2 weeks of less than 1u of Lantus twice a day and me testing him at home, he went off insulin completely and has been diet controlled ever since. This coming November 1st will make 1 years since his last dose of Lantus.

In June I adopted Musette as a diabetic, her previous owners had surrendered her to be put to sleep because of her diabetes, they weren't testing her at home, left her on dry food and giving her 2 units of Lantus bid when she would let them as her ve records report that she was fighting them on her shots, yet they still couldn't get her diabetes under control. So rather than see this lovely himalayan destroyed I adopted her...I got her late in June, now it is the middle of October, I've changed her diet to low carb canned food that all my cats eat (all 13 of them) and she is down to .25u of Lantus and we ocassionally even have to delay or skip shots because she is trying very hard to join her adopted brother in the ranks of the diet controlled diabetics, just hasn't quite made it there yet. Not only doesn't she fight me on her shots, she reminds me when it is time for them and her tests. Cats are smart, they quickly figure out that ear pokes equals treats, and insulin shots equal feeling better. Musette will come to me at testing and shot time, jump in my lap purring then run to her table where she gets her ear pokes and shots and wait for me. She purrs through it all.

I have a wonderful vet, but his knowledge on feline diabetes wasn't the best, and not to scare you, but I throughly believe that following my vet's instructions is what caused me to lose my first diabetic Muse, but since then he has learned a lot from Maxwell, Musette and myself, because I have shared with him what I have learned from the wonderful folks here. So much so that I know get calls from my Vet when they have a new diabetic patient so that I can come in with Maxwell to show them how to test at home, and give shots, they also now use this boards start low and go slow approach to dosing and hand out Binky's list to all new cat owners, not just new diabeitc cats. Because they have also seen how beautiful all my other cats are doing on this diet. Even my non-diabetics have benefitted from the elimination of the dry food...they are all sleek and shiny, lean and muscular, and oh so soft to the touch. My one guy with extreme food allergies, that had been living on a low dose of pred to control them, was weaned off the pred and his allergies simply disappeared.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang

 

Welcome!
I was a dry food fanatic when I adopted Cedric, as my previous cat, Midora, had gum disease and I blamed the canned food I gave her (she also ate dry W/d due to her constapation problems caused by a birth defect) - even though she had the disease regardless of what I fed her!

cedric ate dry food only, then moved over to dry plus 1 can of Fancy Feast (any variety) once per day. He was one Blue Buffalo Weight management (what a crock - it made him fat!). My vet is the one who pushed the canned food on to me, especially since Cedric is not a big water drinker. When he was dx'd in April, I switched his canned food to Blue Buffalo Wilderness (dry also) and Wellness grain free. These are high protien low carb grain free varities. Cedric decided he did not like the Wilderness canned, so I don't buy that any more. He continued to be in the 200 range so we upped his Lantus dose - see spreadsheet below.

He was up to 2.5 units when the gang here convinced me to drop the dry. I did this (quite by accident) on May 19 - note his number drop when I took the dry food away. Two days later, his numbers were normal and he has not had insulin since 5/21/11. He just turned 6 about a month ago. Yes, I was mad at some people here - my vet has a FD cat and KD dog at home (his GF is a vet also & I thin thye are hers) and felt that he knew what he was doing - he wasn't telling me to drop the dry. But I eat crow and say the gang here was 100% right about the dry food. Heck, the "Weight Management" didn't help Cedric lose weight, it made him gain (note I have a co-worker who has the same problem w/his 3 cats who eat that dry food). High in calories junk!

Since my vet was experienced with diabetes, he started Cedric out on 1 unit 2x day. I really think you need to go that route, like MommaofMuse said, he might go hypo - what if you are not home?

I am assuming that your cats numbers are high, thus the high does your vet suggested. You might want to consider my advice, and maybe go the route I did: change to Blue Buffalo Wilderness dry and canned (avail at PetSmart, Pet Supermarket and probably Petco - I don't shop there), then slowly do away with the dry. make sure you test your cat with a BG meter before shooting the insulin.

I bought a Reli-on micro meter at Wal-Mart for $9 and the test strips (available at the pharmacy counter) are 50 for $20. This is a must. I still test Cedric once a week (I need to update the sheet, but the log is at home). Think of it this way - you wouldn't shoot insulin into yourself or your child without testing first....


Again welcome to the FDMB!

 

I just wanted to add my voice that Hills M/D (canned or dry) is NOT a good food for diabetic cats. It is too high in carbs. Also, 3u is definitely too high a starting dose--most cats on a low carb canned diet only need around 1u to start. Too high a dose can cause a dangerous hypoglycemic incident, especially once the dry food is not longer elevating Fenners blood glucose and the UTI clears (infection also elevates blood glucose).

Here is the link to the dosing protocol for Lantus: http://felinediabetes.com/Roomp_Rand_2008 dosing_testing protocol.pdf. A starting dose should be .25u per kg of ideal weight every 12 hours. So if your cat is supposed to weigh about 10-12 lbs (4.5-5.4 kg), the starting dose should be 1-1.25u This is also recommended by the AAHA Diabetes Guidelines (p. 218): http://www.aahanet.org/PublicDocuments/AAHADiabetesGuidelines.pdf. It states:

The only prescription food that is appropriate for a diabetic cat is canned Purina DM. If you feel that you must go with a prescription diet, please ask your vet for this and return the Hills. However, the quality of ingredients in either the Hills or the Purina prescription diets are about the same as the very inexpensive canned foods in the grocery store, like Friskies or Special Kitty, both of which make options with similar or lower carb content, so you're really only paying for the label. You can purchase a high end premium low carb food like Wellness, Merrick's, or EVO for less than what you pay for the Purina DM or Hills M/D. If availability is an issue, many people here feed the grain-free varieties of Fancy Feast, which is a good medium grade food: http://felinediabetes.com/glutenfree.htm

I've attached an article which you might want to print and give to your vet. With the combination of a low carb canned diet, Lantus, and the proper dose adjustments made via home testing, Fenner has an 80+% chance of achieving diet controlled remission. However, this remission rate is only applicable if you follow the correct treatment and dosing guidelines. Your vet is not giving you correct dosing or diet advice, which unfortunately is all too common. Vets must learn to treat many different diseases for many different animals, so they may not always be able to stay current with the particulars of treatment for every disease. My own vet was great in that she recommended the right insulin (Lantus), she handed me a list of low carb non-prescription canned food, and told me I needed to home test with a human glucometer, but her dosing recommendations were off. Had I continued to follow them I would have had great difficultly regulating Bandit. Too much insulin will keep blood sugar just as high as too little insulin.

 

oh dear, this is one of those difficult to write posts. it is wonderful that you like and trust your vet. it is a huge help.
the sad thing is, they truly don't know as much about treating feline diabetes as we do. does'nt that sound awful for me to say? i hate saying it. i want them to know MORE not less than us. but we are here daily, some of us for many years. we work with our own kitties and many many others daily. every day. EVERY SINGLE DAY. and there is no disputing our seeing the same experiences over and over and over again.

first experience. 3 units of insulin is TOO HIGH TO START. you start with one unit and test at home and can always go up.....but having to go down in dose is usually the result of extremely low blood sugar and on lantus that may mean a 24 hypo experience.

second experience. many cats here go otj. off the juice. on a wet food, low carb diet. that has NEVER happened on hard crunchie food. hard food is like serving mcdonalds everyday to a diabetic.
your dr. gets a cut when selling hills brand foods. he/she may not even know how bad it is for your cat. just think about it in a common sense way. a dehyradated crunchie food with those awful additive incrediantes and foods cats never should eat like corn, etc.

third experience....you will find all these things out for yourself once you start empowering yourself by testing your cat at home.
would you like a free newbie kit?
contact me.

lori and tomtom

 

Hello and welcome!

I just have to chime in with everyone else here...3 units is way too high a starting dose! Please reconsider...and also reconsider your food choices as well. There are much better foods out there for your precious kitty...

I know it's difficult to go against your vet's instructions - I was very hesitant to do this as well, as I trusted my vet implicitly. But, the people on this board have been treating their diabetic kitties for years with much success, and they truly know what they are talking about.

If I had kept Porky at 3 units of Lantus (my vet's recommendation), I would have had a serious hypo incident on my hands, I'm sure. Porky was lowered to one unit, and with his new canned, low-carb diet, he was off of insulin in around 1 month, and has been without insulin for almost 2 years now.

 

Am so excited to report that Jill has ordered and shall receive and extra special NK. Please let's not be remiss in helping her,,,,holding her hand as she does her first pokie...let us be here to welcome her to the Vampire Club.
I know she will need our support as it differs somewhat from her trusted vet...but WE KNOW we have no hesitation in what we know right?
YAY, I think we are on are way to having a new family member in the sugar kitty club....and another cat on his/her way to be nothing other than extra sweet.
Hugs,
Lori

 

Thank you Lori, and thank you to everyone else that replied! I appreciate your opinions!