Aslan New to List

Hello,

My name is Aslan and I am a diabetic cat (dx 7/2008) I have been on Vetsulin since the beginning and was switched to Lantus yesterday.

My parents use the U100 syringes and I was getting 14 units of U100 measurement of vetsulin and the new vet said to use 7 units of Lantus (U100 also). Mom only gave me 3 units last night because of the concern of the members on ths board that it was too much lantus too quick.

I have never done really well on the vetsulin although I did OK...and we have been through several vets & just found this one who at least wants to deal with a diabetic cat and cares- even though he is an hours drive away and we probably pass 40 other vets on the way!!!

This is my 4th vet. The first did not seem to want to deal with a diabetic cat. The second diagnosed me when Mom asked him to test me because of excessive drinking & peeing. At that time, mom & dad had to go out of town for a few days and left me with the vet and asked that a curve be done while they were gone. When they returned and asked for the results of the curve - they were told the doctor does not know what you meant by curve - he does a 'smack' test - need-less-to-say that was the last time I saw that vet. The next vet was more knowledgeable but seemed to think that her job was to give expensive tests and sell expensive products...none of which seemed to get me better regulated.

This new vet was highly recommended by a person who runs a cat boarding facility and also has run a cat rescue shelter for years. She has taken care of diabetic cats and took great cre of me when I mom & dad had to go out of town again. When asked if she could recommend a good vet - she said "if you do not mind a drive" this vet is the best! Mom and dad like him because he is old enough to have experience but not too old (as the one who did not know what a curve was).

Mom & dad had a phenonomenal vet (who very sucessfully treated a diabetic cat they had in the 90's) - but he had the nerve to retire! The young guy that bought his practice is very nice - but almost tripled the prices so we do not go there anymore.

Mom does not home test. I am very good about my shots - but I do have my limits!! I do not have front claws (not mom & dad's doing - they got me this way) -but I sure know how to use the back ones!!!!! When I was an outside cat I could climb trees eith the best of them.

Dad has his own set of concerns. In 2007 he had open heart surgery, followed by a stroke, and then lung surgery at the end of the year. He is doing extremely well and helps with my shots, keeps the food and water bowls filled for me, their non-diabetic cat, and the outdoor neighborhood cats. He also keeps our boxes clean and tends to the 13 bird and squirrel feeders on the deck (they entertain me). He also goes to pulmonary rehab several times a week, likes to play pinochle on the puter, and sleeps a lot! He is a retired teacher.

Mom is a semi-retired accountant. She is self employed and does taxes during tax season, and is really swamped right now. During the rest of the year she does limited accounting for individuals and small business and keeps the books for the pre school at her church. This, with taking care of dad and all his medical appointments and all the household stuff - keeps her days FULL - although she does take time to try to keep my long, dense fur brushed. She is also taking piano lessons at the senior center. I want her to learn the music from "Cats" - but she is still struggling with scales!

I am a mostly Maine Coon. The boarding lady said because of length and density of fur that i have some Norwegian in me. My fur gets easily matted. Mom and dad went to a cat show where a nice lady that raised Maine Coons showed her about grooming and she does try to keep up with the mats - but it is a losing battle. When the weather gets warmer - I will get a buzz cut (I love it) and I look so handsome because my multi colors really pop out!

At one time mom & dad had 13 cats and 3 dogs - all throw aways, strays, or give aways. I was originally from Texas - but have lived with them in Ohio for about 7 years. I am about 11 or 12 years old. We are now down to two of us cats in the house and two 'neighborhood' cats that mom & dad and a neight\bor share responsibilities for. As our ranks thin out we are not being replaced because of the excessive cost to properly maintain pets. Mom & dad have a couple of grand 'furbabies' on the street (black lab dogs - UGH!) that they can spoil and babysit for!

Well, it is almost time for my morning feeding. I have not been eating well (that keeps mom in a quandry as to how much insulin to give me!). Time to go put on my best finicky act!

Love to all,
Aslan

 

Hi, Aslan, it's nice to meet you!

You are on a very, very, very high dose of insulin, Aslan and I'd like to know how you got there. What was your starting dose? Why was it increased? Have your mom and your vet ever talked about how increases should be made only on the nadir, the lowest point in yout insulin cycle, never on preshots? And most important of all, what are you eating?

We have many cats here with the dire beasties and most of them are feeling good on only a unit or two of insulin a day, that's why I'm concerned about your dose. Often when a cat needs that much insulin we like to have a test done for acromegaly, a disease caused by a tumor. Have you had that test?

We have been around a long time (I have been here over 10 years) and we have seen most of the things related to this condition. We will stick our opinions in and, often, you will see us debate with one another. In science they call this peer review and it's a safeguard against bad advice going unchallenged.

G ia & Quirk (GA)

Guilt trips are a detour from life

 

More info on Aslan from LL

Thread from LL, from 02/22/10

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=7127

 

Hi,
Welcome to the forum! You have come to the right place. Everyone here has so much experience with diabetic cats. We hope you can get Aslan regulated soon.

I understand that you had problems with the hometesting with your other cat....maybe we can get you some help in that area. It is so, so important that Aslan gets his BG checked before each shot, so that you know it's safe to shoot. Can you tell us what city in Ohio you are in? I bet we have member that is close by that can come visit and give you some of the hometesting tips in person. We have several members in Ohio. Sometimes all it takes is a few helpful tips and showing someone in person how to test. After that it gets easy, easy easy. And takes about 10 seconds.

Where are you at?

 

Hi Aslan and parents! I am so glad to see that you made it over here.

As others have said, the dose of insulin you are/were getting is crazy high so hopefully we can help you all find a way forward that is easier and safer for you!

Jen

 

Hi & Thanks for the responses,

We are only giving 2 units this morning (gave 7 yesterday AM for 1st dose - Tues- and 3 last night).

With all the comments and some reading - saw the 5 & 6 is considered VERY high dose of lantus - so we decided to lower it - especially since Aslan has decided not to eat all his food.

So far he seems to be feeling good - other than not eating.

We live in Lake County, Ohio. It is up north east of Cleveland near the lake. We live off of State Route 306 (Chillicothe Road) near Lakeland College.

 

Ohio anyone?

Awesome! I just posted to you in your lantus thread

Take things one step at a time, and we'll help. NOt sure if we have anyone in your area but hopefully we do!

Jen

 

For some reason another post failed to go through - so will repeat some here.

Our vet from the 90's had the nerve to retire and the young guy that bought the practice is nice and seems good but increased prices almost by 3 times.

First vet we tried for Aslan this go around (2008) started Aslan at 8 or 9 units if Vetsulin a day. Last year another increased it to 13 twice a day after glucose and fructosimine testing. He was never satisfactorily regulated to our way of thinking (having been spoiled by the success with our cat in the 90's), and went to a vet very highly recommended by a gal that operates a boarding kennel and has run a cat rescue for years. We asked who she recommended and she said if we did not mind a bit of a trip - this latest doctor was the best. That is how we found our current vet.

We are very comfortable with him as he is a bit older (but not too old), seems very knowledgeable and has treated diabetics before and was willing to treat Aslan (something both the first two vets we were at lacked - willingness and/or knowledge). He increased the vetsulin to the 14 to get control of the peeing and water intake after a glucose and fructosimine test. He said we should notice a great improvement quickly - which we did within 36 hours.

Then yesterday we started the lantus.

The vet wants to run the tests about 10 days after we start the lantus. We did give the 7 units lantus yesterday AM but reduced that to 3 last night as a result of the concern, comments and reading since yesterday. This morning was 2 units - Aslan has decided not to eat all his food. We plan to keep it at about 2.5 units for now.

We are hoping to find a Purina Glycopet Testing kit locally - if not we can order one online.

He seems to be doing fine - and we are trying to find some Purina Glycotest Kits locally - if not we will havew to order them.

 

The thing is, Aslan should have never been started at such a high dose in the first place, so now you've spent so much time and energy trying to 'regulate' him when it would have been so much easier if the vet had the common sense to start at a a better dose. HOnestly, cats with few exceptions should be started at approx 1 unit twice a day, no matter which insulin, and doses should be raised based on hometesting results after the dose has settled for at least a few days.

By starting too high, Aslan's body was forced to protect itself; the liver does this by producing a substance called glucagon...it ends up appearing as if blood glucose levels are high and are in need of more insulin, when really less is needed. It is called rebound or the somogi effect.

Honestly, I just cringe at what you guys and Aslan especially have been through. I know you must be so tired of conflicting opionions but I really do think that lowering the dose the way you have is really the best thing you could have done!

 

Morning JJ,
I'm concerned about the not eating. That is unusual, and indication Aslan is possibly sick. Has he been vomiting or laying around looking uncomfortable? I recommend also that you test his urine with ketone strips, called ketostix or ketodiastix, since you are reducing his doses. We don't want him to get ketones. If he registers positive on these strips, please post here immediately.

Can you give us an idea of if he is "on strike" and disliking his food, or not interested in eating anything? Things to try to bait him into eating:
tuna fish
kentucky fried chicken or rotisserie chicken (no skin, too spicy)
cheese
deli meats
baby food

 

Not eating all his food is not too unusual.

Aslan does not like anything other than the dry food he gets.

In the past we have tried fancy feast, and various canned foods, baby food, meats, cheeses - even chicken breast and filet mignon - he turns his nose up at it all. The only thinf he will do is lick the gravy off the fancy feast or whatever cat food. I even tried putting gravy over food - no dice.

I called Purina to see who around here might have a glycopet test kit - there were only two clinics that they could give me close to the cleveland area. We could drive to pick one up....but neither had one - they can order one - I can do that online!

But the ketostix can be bought at Walgreens, right? How do I get him to pee on the stick? I understand people with dogs entertain neighbors with the antics of getting the test done - but cats?

We have to go out in the snow in about an hour and could pick some up - if I knew what to do with them.

I also got out the Asencia Countour thing that someone gave me. Tried to get some blood to no avail - wasted two lancets and have one very unhappy cat and one very frustrated mom!!!!! My glucose level is fine though!!!

JJ

 

Most people on this board use Human Blood Glucose meters. I use the One Touch Ultra Mini. If you can get a good blood drop you can also use the Relion from Walmart. Also on my cat I get blood fairly easily from one ear and very sparingly from the other. It's weird...but I treat him with his favorite treat after every test so he now looks forward to the test!

 

Urine testing doesn't have to be too technical. I could never get my diabetic cats to pee on the stick until I got Leo, who could care less what I'm doing while he pees. As for the other 3 diabetics, I just stalked them. As soon as they peed, I stuck the strip right in the puddle in the litter. One thing to do before you do that is to take some clean, unused litter, get it wet with tap water, and test a strip in it to make sure it does not react. Once you know the litter won't cause a false positive, you can try the dunk-in-the-puddle method. You have to get the urine fresh or the test will be void, so watch him when he heads towards the box. Some people have bought ladles to catch the pee in as it's coming out and I hear that works very well. Others use saran wrap hidden under a thin layer of litter to help puddle the urine. Still others just reach back there and hold the strip under their butts, which is what I am allowed to do with Leo :mrgreen:

Ketostix test only for ketones
Ketodiastix test for both ketones and sugar in the pee. The sugar can be hours old though, so all that will do is tell you that several hours ago, there was sugar.. but it will tell you if it was there.

And both are available any place that has a pharmacy, even a grocery store.

 

I am from Lantus & have been asked to help you with alternative monitoring until you can blood test--
I did post this somewhere, as Carolyn PM'd me, but I'm sending you a copy of the post I sent you today-
I would be glad to help you with urine testing till next week when you can use the right monitoring--
previous post:
I have a cat that would not let us blood test her for almost a year--We used Purina Glucotest Urine detection system, which on amazon is $6.00 a pkg, and lasts about 5-7 days--You put it into scoopable litter, it comes in little squares, and when Aslan
pees on the squares, the color changes and gives you a urine glucose reading--It is afterall, some indication where this cat's glucose level is, but the only thing is that urine is stored in the bladder for 3-5 hours, so when it is excreted, it is the past reading, not the current--That's why I checked the litter box 2-3 times a day, just to see where she was..One of our longest members managed her outdoor cat this way for 14 yrs.
BUT blood testing is the ONLY up to the minute way to monitor-It is what we use here--There are isolated cases & should be an interim measure.

If I were you I would try a packet of Glucotest, for a week & I will be glad to help you interpret it as I have a packet here with the color chart indicating the urine levels--OK??
Just today, keep your eye on Aslan, as that is a pretty high dose of lantus, but I hope it will be fine...
I will be glad to help...

 

So far so good with Aslan. He seems to be doing well - peeing still way down from what it was several weeks ago. Good spirits and active. We are going to do the 3 units. My husband said it sounded good as long as he continues to drink & pee less.

We did get the ketodiestix today - hoping to catch some urine if and when he goes - box has been so much drier! Did put some saran wrap under a little litter in his favorite spot in box.

Called Purina to find where we could obtain the gluco test kits locally and they gave me the number to several clinics in the Cleveland area - neither of which had any - said they could order them...figured I would get them just as quickly by trying to get online to find and order them. Hopefully, I will get to that yet tonight.

Thanks for the offer Roni - will try to get it soon.

 

Ordered test kits. Should ship out in next few days - should have by early next week. Sure hope they are as easy as they sound. May even be able to get my husband to help with this.

Well, back to tax returns. Too bad our kitties cannot be taken as dependents!

JJ

 

I'm glad you're getting the urine test kits, that will at least give you some information to help keep Aslan safe. I would like to encourage you to keep trying to blood test. It is much more "real time" and much more accurate, empowering really. :smile: Most cats can be tested, you just have to find a routine that works for you and Aslan. Bribery doesn't hurt either. ;-) Best of all, then you won't need to question whether Aslan's dose is too high or too low, you'll know. Welcome, and you're doing the right things.

 

Re: Aslan New to List - Update 2/26/10

Insomnia has its advantages!!!

I woke up at 3 - went to check on my husband (his bed is in the livingroom since it is a hospital bed and does not fit in the bedroom) - found out he just woke up. We went into kitchen and Frank got all excited - Aslan had just peed in his box!!!! I got the ketodiastix and got the first test in - all normal!!

Aslan has been very chipper and seems to be doing VERY well on the Lantus. He is acting like he wants to go out (he stays in the yard and does not wander). When we are working in the yard - he likes to 'help'.

No working in the yard today - just shoveling snow!!! Aslan DOES NOT help with that!