? Assistance with Vetsulin Needed - ? too high a dose

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by MrWorfMen's Mom, Apr 25, 2016.

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  1. Kako & Tux

    Kako & Tux Well-Known Member

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    You always relax me. :) Not scared at all now since Tux's BG is no longer 700's and 600's! Please advice me on adjusting Lantus dose starting a day after tomorrow. :)
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2016
  2. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Um..... Just had to comment on this, because the inference (intended or otherwise) is that Lantus is somehow 'better' than Prozinc. And I wouldn't want others reading this thread to get that impression.
    Prozinc has been in use on this forum for a long time, and has been a very good insulin for many cats. Others have done well on other PZI insulins.
    And quite a few cats do very well on Levemir (some after switching from Lantus).

    There is a saying here that 'The best insulin is the one that works best for the cat'. But we have no way of knowing in advance which insulin that will be.

    Eliz
     
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  3. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    @Kako

    Good luck with the change of insulin, Kako! :bighug:
    There are many experienced Lantus users here who will be able to advise you on how to help your gorgeous Tux to feel better.
    Keeping fingers and paws crossed that things improve for him really soon.

    Hugs,

    Eliz
     
  4. Kako & Tux

    Kako & Tux Well-Known Member

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    Thank you Elizabeth (for crossing fingers) and Bertie (for crossing paws). :)
     
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  5. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    This is true, Eliz, and I agree with you wholeheartedly that an individual cat may have a much better response to one particular insulin over another. However, if I were a relative novice and I was considering a switch from Caninsulin/Vetsulin to a different insulin one of the major factors I would take into consideration when making the decision as to which insulin to try next would be evidence of improved likelihood of remission rates, doubly so if I were under significant financial constraints and could not afford the luxury of a 'suck it and see' approach to treatment; I'd want my cat to get the best bang possible for my limited bucks. I'd also take into consideration the experiences of others who had at one time treated their cats with the insulin I was currently using but who had had demonstrable success with a different insulin. If more of them had better success with Lantus then that is what I would choose. I would also give weight to the experience-based opinions of highly knowledgeable people who were very active members of reputable diabetic cat fora because they would have had exposure to a wealth of evidence, albeit technically anecdotal, of performance of different insulins and they might give me a valuable steer as to the best insulin to try next based on the success rates of the members.

    It's true that many cats do great on ProZinc but, personally speaking, if I were trying to choose between ProZinc and Lantus I would go for the Lantus: both would be unknown quantities at outset but there is scientific evidence which has demonstrated a not insignificant increase in the likelihood of a cat achieving remission on Lantus compared to ProZinc and I would therefore choose the former because statistically it would give my cat a better chance of becoming a diet-controlled diabetic. The only major counter to that would be if my life circumstances were such that managing the consistent dosing necessary to optimise the benefits of a depot insulin was problematic, in which case I might then plump for one of the in-out P insulins because of the greater dosing flexibility they offer.


    Mogs
    .
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2016
  6. Kako & Tux

    Kako & Tux Well-Known Member

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    I will include Rosa in my prayers. :)

    Testing costs... yes! :arghh: One AlphaTrax strip costs the same as two cans of Friskies. :eek: I've used 100 strips within 3 weeks because I wasted a lot of them the first two weeks. I hardly waste now and I've ordered one bottle of FreeStyle strips for less. It's on it's way. :)
     
  7. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    @Critter Mom

    Mogs,
    Regarding the various insulin options: You weighed up the pros and cons and you made a choice.
    That's absolutely as it should be! :cat:

    Eliz
     
  8. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you so much. I really do appreciate that more than you can possibly know. :)

    The strips are a horrible price - really crazy. I know the FreeStyle ones are a little cheaper, though none of them are really all that reasonable. I went with a human meter because after paying for Rosa's diagnosis (2 lots of blood work and 3 vet visits) and her Lantus at $300, I couldn't afford the Alphatrak strips immediately! Fortunately, we did well with the ReliOn and I've since found that I was lucky and got one that reads really close to the lab values.
     
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  9. Kako & Tux

    Kako & Tux Well-Known Member

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    Wasted test strips the first 2 weeks means I had to use 1-3 strips per test.

    When you use a human meter, do you use the number straight or do you convert to cat number?
     
  10. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    You don't need to convert the number on a human meter, Kako.
    But just bear in mind that pet-specific meters usually (but not always) read a tad higher than human meters.
    The pet-specific meter numbers may be slightly closer to the test results your vet would get.

    Eliz
     
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  11. Kako & Tux

    Kako & Tux Well-Known Member

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    We got Lantus and u-100 syringes, also 50 more test strips are arrived. ;)
    Switch tomorrow morning be better than tonight, right? (I will stay up tonight if I need, though)
    I am looking at Gizmo's SS. Start with 1 unit, test mainly +7 be suitable for Tux also?
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2016
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  12. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, if you have the choice, making changes on the AM cycle so you don't have to stay up all night and test is preferable. :) Lantus initial dosing is based on the cat's weight - if they're at their ideal weight or above it, then it's based on their ideal weight. If he's underweight, then it would be based on his actual weight. Can you let us know how much Tux weighs at the moment and how much he ought to weigh?
     
  13. Kako & Tux

    Kako & Tux Well-Known Member

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    Tux weights 10.6 lbs right this moment. :cat: Don't know how much he suppose to weight.
     
  14. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

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    10.6 isn't so far off average for a cat so I think it would be reasonable to assume that he's close to his ideal, unless he happens to be a very small cat and obviously overweight. That equates to 4.8 kg and the starting dose is 0.25 u per kg. That calculation actually gives you 1.2 u as a starting point, but I think it would be reasonable to round down to 1 u and see how he responds to that initially. :)
     
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  15. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Have a look at this body condition chart, Kako. It will help you to assess whether Tux is at ideal weight.


    Mogs
    .
     
  16. Kako & Tux

    Kako & Tux Well-Known Member

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    Tux is between 5 and 6 today. Since we switched to wet food, he asks more and more food and now he can eat 2 cans of 5.5 oz Friskies a day if I give him.
     
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  17. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

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    In that case I'd definitely round the dose down to 1 unit...that allows for him to be a little over his ideal weight right now. Does that sound reasonable to you, Mogs?
     
  18. Kako & Tux

    Kako & Tux Well-Known Member

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    We will start with 1 unit, and we will shoot for ideal weight too. :)
    About testing. Since Tux got ideal BG curve with Vetsulin, preshot and +7 be enough? Is +7 most likely the lowest time for Lantus?
     
  19. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

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    The instructions for Lantus say that most cats hit their low point between +5 and +7. However, it does vary a lot. Rosa's lowest point was anywhere between +2 and +11 and moved pretty much on a daily basis. It was earlier if she was going to drop low and tended to be later if she was just 'surfing' in good numbers. What we usually ask people to do is get a pre-shot, a +2 and a mid-cycle (around +6) test during the daytime cycle to begin with. And then a pre-shot, +2 and before bed test at night. At least until we know how a cat is going to react to Lantus those are good starting points.
     
  20. Kako & Tux

    Kako & Tux Well-Known Member

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  21. Kako & Tux

    Kako & Tux Well-Known Member

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    Good morning! Tux weights 10.4 lbs this morning and Pre-shot is 440. BG is going down!! I feel Tux can do well with Vetsulin. Moment of hesitation to make switch.
     
  22. Kako & Tux

    Kako & Tux Well-Known Member

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    Tux received the first 1 unit Lantus. The "no food for 2 hours before testing" rule stays with Lantus?
     
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  23. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Hi Kako,

    Having been through it myself, I know that it's a bit scary changing insulins but I am hoping that Tux will respond even better to his Lantus treatment. :)

    Yes; you need to lift food for two hours before the preshot tests. When getting the mid-cycle tests, you just decide on your feeding schedule and do spot-checks between doses. Typically Lantus nadirs are around the +5 to +7 mark but it depends on the individual cat's response and the nadir can move around a bit. As you build up data in Tux's spreadsheet it will help you to determine when the best times for testing will be.


    Mogs
    .
     
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  24. Kako & Tux

    Kako & Tux Well-Known Member

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    Good morning Mogs! cat_wings>o
    Thank you for being there. :) The rule makes hard when we need to test frequently but I will try as much as Tux corporates me. :)
     
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  25. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Morning, Kako! :)

    Hang in there; you'll get into the rhythm of things fairly quickly. When I switched Saoirse from Vetsulin to Lantus it was so encouraging to see her numbers level out instead of seeing the massive see-saw every day. I hope Tux will have a similar good response. When the big swings in BG levels stop it may help Tux to feel a lot better, too (fingers and paws crossed).

    :bighug:


    Mogs
    .
     
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  26. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    As Mogs said, Kako, it can be a bit scary changing to a different insulin. (I've done it twice, and was scared both times....:nailbiting:...but was also sort of excited at the same time....:smuggrin: )

    Take heart. You will very soon get the feel for how the new insulin is going to work in Tux's body.
    And hopefully the Lantus will bring Tux into a much better range of numbers soon.
    This should be a really positive step forwards in Tux's diabetes journey. :bighug:


    Eliz
     
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  27. Kako & Tux

    Kako & Tux Well-Known Member

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    Mogs and Elizabeth. thank you for encouragement. :)
    I forgot to ask. How soon after meal do we give a Lantus injection? (I did right after meal this morning.)
     
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  28. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    With Lantus that's absolutely fine.


    Mogs
    .
     
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  29. Kako & Tux

    Kako & Tux Well-Known Member

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    Pre-shot was 440. +2 is 460. ????? Maybe the insulin didn't go into Tux? The needle is shorter than u-40's, so maybe I didn't do right.
     
  30. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    With meter variance those numbers are pretty much equal. That's fairly normal for a +2 on Lantus (unless it's a particularly active cycle).

    NB: because Lantus is a depot insulin it takes a little while to 'fill up the tank' - typically 6-10 cycles (3-5 days) - before you can see how well a dose is working.

    You can learn lots about Lantus and how it works by reading the stickies at the top of the following page:

    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/lantus-glargine-levemir-detemir.9/


    Mogs
    .
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2016
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  31. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Don't worry, Kako.
    This is just the first Lantus shot. And Lantus works differently to Caninsulin.
    Caninsulin is what we call an 'in and out' insulin. It acts pretty quickly and is usually out of the system 12 hours later.
    Lantus is a 'depot' insulin. It builds a little store ('depot') of insulin in the body, and then that insulin is slowly released over time. It takes a little while (few days maybe) for that store to build up, and so it takes a little while to see the full effect of any dose of insulin.

    Edited to add:
    Here's the link to the Lantus forum, Kako. You may find it helpful to read through some of the 'stickies' at the top of this page. There's a lot of info there about how Lantus works. But DO ask as many questions as you want to also. There are many Lantus users here at FDMB.
    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/lantus-glargine-levemir-detemir.9/

    Eliz
     
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  32. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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  33. Kako & Tux

    Kako & Tux Well-Known Member

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    This morning I gently rolled the Lantus bottle to mix, pulled 2 units into the syringe and returned 1 unit back into the bottle, the way I was treating Vetsulin.
    Oh No! Lantus is different from Vetsulin! Glad to find this soon.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2016
  34. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

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    No need to panic. You only did that once so, while it's possible that it might reduce the life of the Lantus ever so slightly, it won't have done any real harm.
     
  35. Kako & Tux

    Kako & Tux Well-Known Member

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    I am looking at Rosa's SS. It has totally different colors from Tux's and it's pretty! I at first thought you were using different spreadsheet. :woot:
    How did you install those horizontal lines where say BEGIN OTJ TRIAL and START OTJ TRIAL..... ?
     
  36. Kako & Tux

    Kako & Tux Well-Known Member

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    All reds but Tux seems steady. :cat:
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2016
  37. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

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    She got to pretty numbers in the end, but if you look at the first week or so there was nothing pretty about that at all! Her reading on diagnosis was 680 and I really never thought it would be possible for her to reach remission from such a high starting point. But she did, and so far (anti-jinx) she's been diet controlled for a little over a year now. So never give up hope! :)

    I selected the row I wanted to put the OTJ trial header on and merged the cells in the row so that all the boxes in that row turn into one big box. Then I typed in the information I wanted and used the 'horizontal align' button at the top of the spreadsheet to center the writing. Finally, because I wanted a different color for those rows than anything I was using anywhere else, I selected the row and used the 'fill' button (the one that looks like a paint can) to make the row a different color from everything else.
     
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  38. Kako & Tux

    Kako & Tux Well-Known Member

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    Rosa's numbers came down so quickly. Took her only 10 days!?
    I am tired of seeing blacks and reds so I added a pleasant color on Tux's SS. Thank you for explaining! :cat:
     
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  39. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

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    Tux will get there - remember Rosa was only ever given Lantus so we didn't have to go through switching insulins and re-starting the dose. Give him time - the first 5 days are tough because that's when the Lantus depot is building so you don't always see much change in the numbers then. But once you hit the right dose, he'll start giving you pretty numbers too! :) I like what you've done with your SS - it will make it really easy for us all to see the change in insulin when we're looking at his numbers. :)
     
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  40. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Ooh! We like last night's purdy yellow number! :D


    Mogs
    .
     
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  41. Kako & Tux

    Kako & Tux Well-Known Member

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    Good morning ladies! AMPS 300! ;) Love the number, but I don't know how much Lantus to give him. 1 unit be good? Or it's too much?
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2016
  42. Kako & Tux

    Kako & Tux Well-Known Member

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    I gave 0.75 unit. Hope my choice was OK.
     
  43. Kako & Tux

    Kako & Tux Well-Known Member

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    What you did for Rosa is amazing! :rb_icon:
    You went thru very very detailed adjustments up and down, and ended with 0.05 unit.
    I am excited to see 300 AMPS today! But same time I am nervous deciding dose. Maybe I will be in panic when I see the first green!
    How much dose you'd have given this morning, and how much dose you'd give tonight in case PMPS is in pink, yellow, or blue?  
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2016
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  44. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you! But Rosa did the really hard work - she had to heal herself! I just gave her the insulin. :)

    That's what we usually do with Lantus - the smaller the dose we can finish up with, giving a cat support for as long as we can, the better chance we have of a strong remission.

    That's a great pre-shot number this morning! I like that. :) And yes, it's always a little bit scary when you see your first green number but there are people here to help you through being scared. Lantus isn't usually dosed on a sliding scale - we stick with a particular dose until the depot is full or until the cat earns a reduction. Dosing isn't based on the pre-shot number with Lantus - the reason we get a pre-shot number is to make sure that Tux is high enough for it to be safe for him to have a shot at all and because that and the +2 can often give you an early warning if Tux is likely to have a very active cycle. So based on that, I would have stuck with the 1 unit this morning. However, 0.75 if you weren't sure is fine - it's much better to reduce slightly if you're not sure than to skip the shot completely. If Tux is under 200 at any of his pre-shots for now, please post for advice - if there's a strong chance he will drop low, someone will stay with you to help you if he does get low enough to earn a reduction. And for anything over 200, we would usually give the full dose. As you get more used to Tux's response to the insulin, that pre-shot limit can be reduced - most people here will give a full dose for any number above 50 on a human meter or 68 on an Alphatrak - I think the lowest pre-shot number I gave a full dose on was around 56 or 57. Lantus is an insulin that does better at keeping numbers down than at dragging high numbers down and because it is gentler on a cat's system than Caninsulin, what we often find is that if the cat starts off in a lower number, they are likely to have a fairly flat cycle where the numbers don't move very much at all. That is actually very good for the cat because if they can spend all day in the normal range, then they are spending all that time healing.
     
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  45. LindyKindy

    LindyKindy Member

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    How exciting to see Tux's numbers today!!! I have been pulling for you two!
     
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  46. Kako & Tux

    Kako & Tux Well-Known Member

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    Thank you! :) Yes, he got pretty colors today! Like a rainbow! :rb_icon:I am excited, and the same time I am nervous thinking "I will see the green soon".
     
  47. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Nice numbers, Kako! :bighug:
    .
     
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  48. LindyKindy

    LindyKindy Member

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    Don't be nervous. The greens are beautiful and means that Tux is having a positive reaction! Go Tux Go!!! :bighug:
     
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  49. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Hi Kako,

    I am positively delighted to see that Tux is responding so well to his Lantus! (Anti-jinx!) :cat: Much better than the blacks and reds.


    Mogs
    .
     
  50. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

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    Tux's numbers look GREAT Kako!! :) And you have a lot of people right here ready to help you when he decides to try the green range out for the first time! :bighug:
     
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  51. Kako & Tux

    Kako & Tux Well-Known Member

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    Thank you ladies! I understand...I should be totally happy seeing those pretty colors and look forward to see the first green!
    I am trying to put "Vetsulin habits" behind and looking at Lantus user SSs to learn.
    I thought AMPS would be yellow or blue this morning, but it was pink. OK.... I take deep breathes and prepare to be excited to see the first green anytime.
    Go Tux!! :woot:
     
  52. Kako & Tux

    Kako & Tux Well-Known Member

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    It's a pink day. Maybe tomorrow will be interesting??? :cat:
     
  53. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

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    Well, it's been a while since he saw blue numbers. So the pink could even be a little reaction to those. He'll get there - you've seen now that he can react to the Lantus - so now it's just a case of being patient. :)
     
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  54. Kako & Tux

    Kako & Tux Well-Known Member

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    Hi Sarah! Today I am spending my time reviewing posts from the beginning, and I realized that it is you, Cooter's mom!
    We started with Vetsulin too.... and a lady kindly shared Cooter's SS for me to get ideas (In the beginning I was testing preshots and +6 only). Since then I have been viewing Cooter's SS everyday. You quickly switched to Prozinc, but we stayed on Vetsulin for 3 weeks. Finally we made a switch. Anyway... Cooter has been in my prayers. For both Cooter and Tux who are new to diabetes be regulated soon. :cat::cat:
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2016
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  55. Kako & Tux

    Kako & Tux Well-Known Member

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    Does it mean a minor (or gentle) bouncing?
     
  56. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

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    It's not certain because he didn't go really high, but it is possible that he's having a very minor bounce today. Or he's still adjusting to the Lantus - or even a combination of the two. But he will get there - and soon you'll be seeing more blue numbers and even starting to see some green! :D
     
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  57. Kako & Tux

    Kako & Tux Well-Known Member

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    Greens.... :D
     
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  58. Kako & Tux

    Kako & Tux Well-Known Member

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    418... back to red. Though it's interesting, Tux is acting totally normal. He is happier when he is in pink and red. Weird...:blackeye:
    Giving him break from testing, for he will be tested A LOT when we see blue then green! :D
    I ordered 50 more test strips. :) Feel never enough. Maybe I should order 100 or 200 instead of 50 at a time???
     
  59. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

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    Tux has very probably got used to how he feels in higher numbers - it does take them a little time to adjust to being in better numbers again. But his body will remember what normal feels like given a little time. :)

    For a while with Rosa I was buying 100 strips a week! We usually didn't use all of them, but it meant I never ran out. If you can afford to order more than 50 at a time, it's always worth having a spare box on hand. :)
     
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  60. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    I'd recommend always keeping a full box of strips in your hypo toolkit, Kako. I like to have 2 unopened pods of 50 strips plus the one I'm using at the moment. When the current pod is finished I open a new one and order another pod of 50 strips to top up my stock.


    Mogs
    .
     
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  61. Kako & Tux

    Kako & Tux Well-Known Member

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    Tux was stray, and he loves human food. I feel he was eating junk food or restaurant garbage since he smelled like a restaurant garbage can when he came to my place. (Poor boy!)
    I feel his BG has been high entire his life, for 10 years or so. Wonder if his body would agree with ideal number. :nailbiting:
     
  62. Kako & Tux

    Kako & Tux Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I can see from Rosa's SS.
     
  63. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

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    Awww poor baby Tux. That reminds me a lot of our Licorice. When we first got her, she wouldn't drink from a bowl of water, but she'd steal soda or hot tea!! And she begs and begs for people food - it makes me wonder just how she was surviving before we got her. But cats are remarkable creatures, and his body does remember what normal should feel like - it just needs to be reminded. :bighug:

    Things got a little crazy for a while - once she decided she was going to earn dose reductions, she earned a lot of them really quickly! And then of course spent a month running so close to the low range that I had to test her a lot anyway before she earned that last reduction. But Rosa never did like to make life too easy for me!! ;) Many cats do extremely well with less testing than Rosa got so please don't be put off by how much I tested.
     
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  64. Kako & Tux

    Kako & Tux Well-Known Member

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    It sounds right. I will get more to prepare for the green. :cat:
     
  65. Kako & Tux

    Kako & Tux Well-Known Member

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  66. Kako & Tux

    Kako & Tux Well-Known Member

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    That's true. I will relax :coffee: and trust his healing ability. :)
     
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  67. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

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    Jan 14, 2015
    Licorice has adjusted quite well now. She still prefers dry food, but she'll eat whatever she's given - I think the other cats helped to teach her how a cat is meant to drink and what they're meant to eat. The other cats get excited at food time, so of course she started off by just joining in the excitement, then gradually she started to eat the food too! :) We never did let her drink the soda she tried to steal of course - she might have got a few sips of tea now and then, but I don't add sugar to that so I wasn't too worried...if it kept her hydrated while she adjusted, that was fine by me. :)
     
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  68. Kako & Tux

    Kako & Tux Well-Known Member

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    Apr 24, 2016
    Semi-interesting time's come! :woot: Please advice.
    AMPS was 357, PMPS is 207. 1 unit be safe tonight?
    Tux is eating supper now... oh... he's done eating. Hope someone is online. :nailbiting:
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2016
  69. Kako & Tux

    Kako & Tux Well-Known Member

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    Apr 24, 2016
    Did 0.5, and will be testing later tonight.
     
  70. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    I see from your spreadsheet you gave Tux 0.5 IU tonight. Be sure to get a before bed check some time after +2 to make sure he's in OK numbers before you sleep, Kako.


    Mogs
    .
     
  71. Kako & Tux

    Kako & Tux Well-Known Member

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    If we see bright green, give him a bit of sugar, correct?
     
  72. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

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    Jan 14, 2015
    Yes, if he goes under 68 on the Alphatrak, you'd give him some carbs...either some of his regular food with a couple of drops of honey or some gravy from a high carb food if you have any.
     
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  73. Kako & Tux

    Kako & Tux Well-Known Member

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    OK, I can manage that. No panic. :D
     
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  74. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

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    I know you can. I'm not sure how long I'll be able to stick around tonight - I only got about 4 hours sleep last night and had to wake up at 6 to drop my step-son off to catch a train for a school outing, but I'm sure there will be people around for moral support if you need it. And I'll check in on and off for as long as I can. :)
     
  75. Kako & Tux

    Kako & Tux Well-Known Member

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    Apr 24, 2016
    Ok so far. Tux is outside, relaxing under my car, his cool spot. :cat: Please go to bed. You need sleep. I had a green tea frappuccino with extra green tea this afternoon, I am ready to stay up to monitor. Since we switched to Lantus, his lowest time seems +6, so I maybe stay up until 2 am.
     
  76. Kako & Tux

    Kako & Tux Well-Known Member

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    If Tux was your cat, how much dose you'd have given tonight? I want to know for the future.
     
  77. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

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    Oh, I'm good for an hour or so yet - I can't go to bed at 9:30 or I'll be awake by 4 am!!

    I just looked at Tux's spreadsheet - we've only got a few days of data with Lantus for him yet. Officially the limit is 200, but I think taking a reduced dose tonight is fine as we're not sure how he'll react to starting off that low yet. And while you will no doubt be good for a while tonight, we don't want to keep you awake testing him all night - 2 am is quite late enough! :) As you see more of a pattern for his cycles when he starts off lower like this, you'll be able to give him a full dose at lower numbers with confidence, but it's probably a little early for that just yet. :bighug:
     
  78. LindyKindy

    LindyKindy Member

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    Aug 22, 2015
    You and Tux are doing great Kako!!! I see you are up in the middle of the night testing him. All those pretty yellows! :) You are taking such good care of him. Take care of yourself too! How exciting to see his numbers improve.
     
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  79. Kako & Tux

    Kako & Tux Well-Known Member

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    I stayed up until 2am. Got boring testing results! :p Good night!
     
  80. Kako & Tux

    Kako & Tux Well-Known Member

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    Apr 24, 2016
    WOW! You are up late too! Are you also taking care of Gryff?
    I thought all yellows were boring thing but is it good? Just in case I gave him a few dry treats and we are going to sleep together.
    Thank you for checking on us. Good night! :)
     
  81. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Need my sunglasses! All those lovely yellows!! :cool:

    Great job, Kako! :bighug:


    Mogs
    .
     
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  82. Kako & Tux

    Kako & Tux Well-Known Member

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    Apr 24, 2016
    Good morning!
    I saw him on the driveway sitting tongue out then vomit one tablespoon size (assume) bubbly liquid with one thin grass in it at 6:3o am.
    I thought he was sick. Though he seems fine and since then he's been purring nonstop powerfully.
    Is this "vomit" or "threw up" on your SS? Or Tux vomited because he ate grass... nothing to do with insulin injection or BG?
    His BG is 412 after 20 min. vomiting.
     
  83. Kako & Tux

    Kako & Tux Well-Known Member

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    Apr 24, 2016
    Got the first green at +3.75! It's 77. Tux is handling well. :woot:
     
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  84. LindyKindy

    LindyKindy Member

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    Aug 22, 2015
    WOW! What a week for Tux and you :)
     
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  85. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

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    Awesome work Kako and Tux! Love that green number! :D
     
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  86. Kako & Tux

    Kako & Tux Well-Known Member

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    Apr 24, 2016
    I didn't realize the number was this low. I was planing to test +5 (12:30am) and go to sleep. I was nearly falling asleep on the couch... then Tux jumped on the couch and kept purring putting his head on my lap.
    It can be a very fun night but Tux wanted before bed snack and I am tired... So I gave him some dry food and wet food mix. He ate and he cleaned himself. (acting totally fine!)
    Would be better to test again before go to sleep? (I will be sleeping with Tux again tonight.)
     
  87. Kako & Tux

    Kako & Tux Well-Known Member

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    Apr 24, 2016
    Yes! Green! :D Tux gave me a surprise. After those yellows I was hoping to see blue sometime soon but he showed me green instead! I am amazed how strong Tux is. :woot:
     
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  88. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

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    Jan 14, 2015
    I would get a before bed test, just to make sure he isn't still dropping. The dry food should stop him dropping any further, but it's always best to make sure. He might well bounce by the morning as this is his first green number, so don't worry if you see a much higher reading at his pre-shot number tomorrow.
     
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  89. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

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    Cats really are the most remarkable creatures - that's why we love them so much. Even when they do give us a big shock with an unexpected green number!! :D
     
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  90. Kako & Tux

    Kako & Tux Well-Known Member

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    Apr 24, 2016
    If BG goes up by eating carb, BG wouldn't come down further tonight?

    Then, if he shows higher number in the AM, how much injection dose is ideal?
     
  91. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

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    Jan 14, 2015
    By the time the carbs wear off, he should be past his lowest point so he should be fine for tonight. If he bounces, you'd still give him the same dose in the morning - we don't adjust the dose for bouncing as he needs to level out on his own. :)
     
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  92. Kako & Tux

    Kako & Tux Well-Known Member

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    Apr 24, 2016
    Oh... nice to know! Thank you. I can be prepared for the morning. :)
     
  93. Kako & Tux

    Kako & Tux Well-Known Member

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    Apr 24, 2016
    Tux then showed blue. I messed the SS, can't see but it's +4.5. :cool:
     
  94. Kako & Tux

    Kako & Tux Well-Known Member

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    Apr 24, 2016
    Thank you for the support, ladies! Good night! :cat::D:cool:
     
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  95. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

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    Oh that's a nice rise - and I can understand your SS just fine. :) Looks like he'll be all good tonight...and you know what to do in the morning if he's high. He'll come back down, but it can take up to 3 days for his numbers to settle if he goes into a full bounce (most cats do the first few times they see green numbers so it's perfectly normal). :) :D
     
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  96. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Green! Way to go, Tux. :)


    Mogs
    .
     
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  97. Kako & Tux

    Kako & Tux Well-Known Member

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    Apr 24, 2016
    I am reading Lantus forum.

    > After 1 week at a given dose perform a 12 hour curve, testing every 2 hours OR perform an 18 hour curve, testing every 3 hours:
    Note: Random spot checks are often helpful to "fill in the blanks" on kitty's spreadsheet.
    • If nadirs are more than 150 mg/dl (8.3 mmol/L), increase the dose by 0.25 unit
    • If nadirs are between 90 (5 mmol/L) and 149 mg/dl (8.2 mmol/L), maintain the same dose
    • If nadirs are below 90 mg/dl (5mmol/L), decrease the dose by 0.25 unit <
    It's been 8 days and AM and PM numbers are quite different the last couple days, I haven't been able to keep the same dose.
    Though, we should give the same dose AM and PM, right? So, it's time to lower dose to 0.75 both AM and PM even though AM is high. Am I understanding correctly?
    (I am sorry.... my brain doesn't work. ) :confused:
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2016
  98. Chris & China

    Chris & China Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    Has anyone invited you over to the Lantus forum to start posting there instead of here??

    Everyone there uses either Lantus or Levemir so you'll get the most experienced people advising you. Of course if you prefer, you can continue posting here in Health

    If you want to post in the Lantus forum, just start posting tomorrow. We post once a day and the subject line contains the date/cats name and AMPS number....as the day goes on, if you get other tests in, you "edit" the subject line and add those new test results in. That way the people scanning the forum for problems can keep an eye on what Tux's numbers are doing and intervene if they see any problems you might not know you're having.

    In the body of the post, you'd put the link to the prior day's post (so it's easy to go back and see what's been going on) and then tell us about how Tux is doing, as well as ask any questions you may have.

    As for the dose, yes, I think I'd try .75 both AM and PM and see how he does....it's totally possible that the reason he dropped to that 77 (even though you reduced to .5 that cycle) was due to the depot being a little "too full" on the 1 unit dose. It can take a few cycles after a reduction before the depot has drained down to the new, lower dose.

    What's important to remember about Lantus is that it's dosed based on how LOW it takes them and you really have to almost ignore the Pre-shot numbers.
     
  99. Kako & Tux

    Kako & Tux Well-Known Member

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    Apr 24, 2016
    Thank you kindly, Chris! No, I didn't know that I could ask at Lantus forum.
    I didn't think I'd get an answer within 15 minutes after AMPS, so I go ahead and gave 0.75. Will see! :cat:

    China's SS is beautiful! It's a wonderful idea to have two tones in blue! :cool:
     
  100. Chris & China

    Chris & China Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    The Lantus forum is usually pretty well monitored...it's the busiest insulin support group here on the message board! If you need advice quickly, just make your subject line very clear, like "HELP!! NEED ADVICE ON DOSE!!"......that'll usually do it....LOL

    You can always go back and edit the subject line later once you have your answer!!

    I'm glad you like China's spreadsheet! I decided awhile back that especially for her, it was important for me to have two tones for the 100's....one for "normal" blue numbers (100-120) and one for the higher numbers (121-199) so I could easily see if she's earned a reduction due to staying in "normal" numbers (50-120) for 7 days (we use a human meter)

    I know a lot of the older members aren't necessarily thrilled about changes made to the colors in the spreadsheets because they're "used to" seeing them and evaluating them a certain way (which I totally understand and respect) so I worked really hard to find a shade of blue that both "read" blue easily, but was also just different enough to make it clear when it was a low blue versus a higher blue

    Come on over and check out the Lantus forum! We'd love to include you in our "family"!!
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2016
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