BG is 83 and my cat is on two units of Prozinc

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by edenbee, Jan 12, 2019.

  1. edenbee

    edenbee Member

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    Jan 28, 2018
    Having a little issue my cat was not doing well on 1.5 units of Prozinc and his BG was 360. Was doing great at 121 for half a year now. However a fatty lump appeared slowly around the area where I inject and the vet said well never had this happen before but fat does not absorb insulin well.
    So he shaved some new infection sites for me and bumped it up to 2 units to get that 360 down
    Tonight he was at 83 on the two units and im thinking it needs to be back to 1.5 as it WAS the fatty lump stopping the insulin from doing its job.
    I need to inject him in a few hours and know I should get a vets approval before changing the dose but im not happy giving two units with a reaing that low. May just go with my guy and drop it down half a unit as he was before we realized the lump was an issue.
    Any thoughts?
     
  2. SpotsMom

    SpotsMom Member

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    You are the one with the syringe not your vet so the decision is ultimately yours. It is far better to be high for a day than low for a minute so I agree with your thinking to back off to what you know as a safe dose. Are you home testing or are those glucose numbers from the vet?

    Generally we recommend testing before every shot to make sure it’s safe to shoot, then getting in at least one test around mid cycle. Cats on insulin can have wide fluctuations in numbers throughout the day, and it’s impossible to know what the correct dose is without knowing the whole picture.
     
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  3. SpotsMom

    SpotsMom Member

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    How long after his shot did he get that 83?
     
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  4. edenbee

    edenbee Member

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    Yes I test at home about once a week as hes been steady and good for almost a year now on his dose. At her vet he was 360(333 by my reading at home) and I think he wanted to just get that down fast. Not knowing if it was just a fluctuation or that fatty lump I was injecting into maybe.
     
  5. edenbee

    edenbee Member

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    It was mid cycle..I am on the pro zinc 12 hour twice a day deal. So I think it was about 5-6 hours after that two unit shot that he tested that low. Fasted him before I pricked his ear. I haven't done pre testing stuff as he would just be miserable all day having it done to him. Though he is pretty chill he is upset about his food changes and eaten less and all that. But hes been very good testing once a week mid cycle. Like amazingly well the same good numbers every week. I just email my vet as taking him in is far too traumatic and I am good at the home test now. He just purrs while I get the drop of blood.
     
  6. edenbee

    edenbee Member

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    I think you are correct and in about half hour I will do the 1.5 units. My vet hasn't emailed back but it is almost midnight in nyc right now.
     
  7. SpotsMom

    SpotsMom Member

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    83 is actually a really good number if that was his nadir. But if you’re not consistently testing I would also be nervous to stay at 2u.

    On home testing, I will only say this: a cat will only be as comfortable with it as his owner. If you are nervous and scared so will he be. With Spot, jumping into his testing chair is his way of telling me he’s hungry and he wants my attention. For him it’s a positive association with food and snuggles, not traumatic and painful. I would encourage you to go back and start fresh on testing. Pick a consistent place, rub his ears and give him a treat. Do this several times without poking until he’s comfortable.. and only then add in a poke. Eventually, he’ll start to associate the routine with getting a treat or getting some scratches. Once he’s comfortable with the pokes, you can start to get him in a routine of testing before every shot.

    I know we can sound like a broken record in this forum, but it really is in an effort to help you. Hypos do happen.. even to experienced members. The difference is being able to head it off before it gets too serious :bighug:
     
  8. edenbee

    edenbee Member

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    yes I heard from my vet this morning and he said go back to 1.5 and take the blood again today or tomorrow. He is casual about the blood taking so I guess I just follow what he says. But you are correct...I still am a bit nervous about the testing though its been almost a full year now and Delgado actually doesn't mind it. He does go to his testing spot as he knows when I pull out the meter its ear time then food time. So at this point it is just me feeling nervous about it. I could probably take it several times and he would be okay with it a day. This Monday I am taking it on my own fo the first time. My husband holds the flashlight on his ear and pets him usually while I do the rest. Which is another reason we do it only once or twice a week. So tomorrow I do it alone and maybe that will be a good time to start doing multiple tests. If I can do it by myself!
    I had to be talked reluctantly into taking his blood at home by the board and now I am SO glad I can do it so I don't mind the broken record!
     
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  9. edenbee

    edenbee Member

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    Delgado was 123 at the vet on 1.5 BUT he is drinking a lot of water and has two+ of sugar in his urine. So Friday we will be doing an at home blood curve starting at 9am and ending at 9pm checking his levels every two hours. Cause something is off here. Could be we got lax about the food as he seemed to be a steady 120 for so long.
    He is a fancy feast addict but hates the classic and pate ones but well..he will have to eat that because the grilled is just too high to give to him as much as he wants.
    I will email the vet to get more info but do I feed Delgado like I normal do during this blood curve check?
     
  10. SpotsMom

    SpotsMom Member

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    Yes feed like you normally would because you want to see what a “normal” day looks like.
     
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  11. edenbee

    edenbee Member

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    Okay makes sense. thanks!
     
  12. edenbee

    edenbee Member

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    I think I know the answer to this...About to do the Blood curve today... I DO feed Delgado before doing the first reading before the shot? My vet is not answering me and I have it written down test before food and shot which seems wrong.
     
  13. SpotsMom

    SpotsMom Member

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    You want to test, feed then shoot. In order to make sure the shot is safe to give, you test before feeding so the number is not food influenced.
     
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  14. edenbee

    edenbee Member

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    ah thanks. He ate a little bit then I tested. Not too much but his food was out. His blood was 217 before I did the shot. At least I tested pre-shot! It's like puling teeth to get any answers so I am just posting here. His last test is at 9pm. Would I test before the second shot then? That would make sense.
     
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  15. SpotsMom

    SpotsMom Member

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    Yes same thing before his PM shot :)
     
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  16. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Here's the basic testing routine we recommend:
    1. test every day AM and PM before feeding and injecting (no food at least 2 hours before) to see if the planned dose is safe
    2. test at least once near mid cycle or at bedtime daily to see how low the BG goes
    3. do extra tests on days off to fill in the response picture
    4. if indicated by consistently high numbers on your spreadsheet, increase the dose by no more than 0.25 u at a time so you don't accidentally go right past a good dose
    5. post here for advice whenever you're confused or unsure of what to do.
    This is useful: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/hometesting-links-and-tips.287/

    Would you be willing to set up the spreadsheet we use here? It helps us to help you.
    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/
     
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  17. edenbee

    edenbee Member

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    Thank you...I will look at the spreadsheet. My husband and I both work freelance so testing multiple times a day can be hard. When he helps me it goes way easier. We both got maybe two hours sleep last night to get up early enough to do this. Night schedules are hard. The first test was done almost in our sleep but luckily we have an easy cat. His BG test at home and at the vet recently read at 123. Which is great but he is drinking a lot of water and seems lethargic. We got a fructosamine test done and it came back poor. High numbers. Vet recommended the blood curve testing today at home where he is not stressed. He got diagnosed a year ago and was steady at around 120's for many months at 1.5 units of PZ. But his behavior recently made us take him in and get that test done. This is the first time we have taken this much blood for testing this often. We really need to see what is going on. Vet advised us to do what we would normally do today with food etc to see what is happening and why his fructosamine test numbers are in the "poor management" category. Will read all the links you provided and I thank you both for answering!
     
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  18. edenbee

    edenbee Member

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    Almost done with this. Highest he went was 300..lowest was 119. Will do a test before he gets the shot at 9pm. Should I check his blood post shot too?
     
  19. edenbee

    edenbee Member

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    Did the curve no big deal except getting up four hours earlier to do it. Not even sure why..we are all on late schedules and why get up at 8am when my cat Delgado gets his first shot at 11:30am? Other than that he was fine. His fluctuated from 200's to 400 when he ate and then I gave the shot and he was a steady 123 for ours then fluctuated to 446 when it was 9pm and time for food again. He said what I thought which is too much food too many times and no grilled even as a treat. All low carb twice a day no more orijen snacks his fructosmine test was in the poor management section.
    he is already crying from not getting food at 6pm which we usually do. And it was a type he hated. Will be hard to do but he has got to suck it up haha! will try to find new foods he likes that are low carb and better for him. The spot check reading so well was not a good indicator of that was really going on. So as you have all said I need to do the Curve now when I can. Next time is Sunday. I think we will do it on our schedule as my husband and I were exhausted by having 2 hour sleep to do this. Any reason we cant do it at 10:30am-10:30pm? We are night owls. Seems like we should stick to our daily routine to really get this correct no? He NEVER gets a shot at 8am...that is hours before normal. Dont want to do the wrong thing!
     
  20. SpotsMom

    SpotsMom Member

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    Yes absolutely do it on his normal shot schedule during the day! The curve starts at shot time :)

    If he’s hungry all the time you can try splitting his food up into multiple small meals instead of just two big ones.
     
  21. edenbee

    edenbee Member

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    okay will do that Sunday then! And splitting up the food sounds like a good idea. We had been just leaving it out so he can eat here or there but now that it's not a kind he loves it just sits there and gets bad.
     
  22. edenbee

    edenbee Member

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    In the middle of a BG curve today. Started at 11am which is the usual time. Very carefully monitoring his food intake etc. He went from 200s to 70s so far with no food intake between that time. That was at 3:pm. Not sure if I should give him a snack he is being stubborn about eating his diabetic food but I know he will eat some Orijen crumbled treats. He ate a little Royal Canin at 11am but hes not very enthusiastic about it. He is off and on with the FF pates and classics.
     
  23. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I'm going to put in another plug for the spreadsheet. If you ever found yourself in a situation of dealing with low BGs and needing advice when you don't have access to your vet this is where you'd want to come. However, if we don't have a spreadsheet of data to study it'll be almost impossible to help.
     
  24. edenbee

    edenbee Member

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    Understood...I have the instructions open for the spreadsheet as I am woefully ignorant about how to use this. Never used google docs and not really sure I understand all the terminology. I assume U stands for units and AMPS is his blood level? I am sure its not too hard but I am really bad at this stuff. We keep his info on a little paper at home clipped together. Last time we did this was about a week ago and it was the first time. So unfortunately the only thing to study would be from today starting at 11am. I did look at your SS and have to admit I don't really understand it. Like the basic terminology. Don't want to clog up the board with my dumb questions...I have never made a spreadsheet in my life sorry! Mine is kinda empty and I am not sure where to put what info. We have him on Prozinc never used any other type of insulin.
     
  25. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    This is very helpful: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/understanding-the-spreadsheet-grid.156606/ Like anything else that is unfamiliar the spreadsheet looks a lot more complicated to use than it is. Once it's set up you just plug in your BG data. The colour coding is automatic. There are people here who will set it up for you if needed. Just let us know.

    No question is ever dumb and the sole reason this forum exits is to help people. Ask away! :)
     
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  26. edenbee

    edenbee Member

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  27. edenbee

    edenbee Member

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    That instructional link is great..not sure the settings are correct but I filled out the column and a half that has been done. I see that link I sent is in edit mode...I am still fumbling I guess but I am nervous because he is at 71 now. Thinking it is time for some Orijen treats and a small meal.
     
  28. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Perfect! I can see your spreadsheet and the version I get is not the editable one (it shouldn't be!).

    Re dose: you're getting very nice numbers at 2 u today. We would have recommended eyeballing 1.75 u after giving 1.5 u though. You lucked out in your jump up to 2 u.

    Would you be willing to set up your signature? Here's how:
    • click on your name in the upper right corner of this page
    • click on "signature" in the men that drops down
    • type the following in the box that opens: kitty's name/age/date of diabetes diagnosis/insulin you're using /glucose meter you're using/what he eats/any other meds or health issues he has.
     
  29. edenbee

    edenbee Member

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    yeah our vet insisted on 2 units and was yelling and it was hard to argue with him. I was into keeping it at 1.5 and seeing how the food change effected the numbers but he insisted. I made a signature just now and the only thing we couldn't figure out is how to tidy up the long link in edit mode to just "Delgado's Chart."
    Also many thanks for the help as always I was never against the SSheets but could not figure it out plus we have only done the blood curve twice now. We just took it again after some diabetic treats and small amount of blue wilderness and it went up to 96. Better no?
     
  30. edenbee

    edenbee Member

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    Last check was 87. Went down from the 96. We give the next shot of 2 units of insulin at 11pm the next and last reading. Never gave that amount of insulin at 87 I think. A bit nervous about that. Do we check the blood before those two units on insulin? Or feed him then give the shot then test it? Just feeling like two units is maybe too much. He puked bile a few hours ago. Which he does fairly often.
     
  31. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I’m just seeing this now. I wouldn’t give 2 u on a pre shot of 117. I suggest you drop down to 1 u to be safe.
     
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  32. edenbee

    edenbee Member

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    Yes I agree. I think my vet was so eager to see the numbers go down after the fructosamine came back poor that he kinda overdid it on getting the numbers down asap but now its like too low. Better safe than sorry. Thanks for all the help and we will likely do another curve the next time we are both home to do it. Which will be soon. I really appreciate the advice and hey I finally made a spreadsheet and it was easy! With help haha.
     
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  33. flyingduster

    flyingduster Member

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    Jan 21, 2019
    You need to use the bbcode. The link to all the code is here: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/help/bb-codes
    But the specific bit you need is this: 7B0BB793-B115-43AB-AB98-B5867C09CB57.jpeg

    Basically you need to write out that code, with your link and the words you want as the hyperlink.
     
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  34. edenbee

    edenbee Member

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    Jan 28, 2018
    Did it thanks! Also took Delgado's blood today before the shot. Was 240. I think he ate a little leftover food before we took it. Wanted to make sure it hadn't dropped at all. I guess I should not leave any leftover food or treats out overnight for all I know he is eating them at 8am and the test was at around 11am. I added it to my chart. Thanks so much for all the help and links with the SpreadSheet and the rest of it!
     
  35. edenbee

    edenbee Member

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    Doing another blood curve today after really changing up Delgado's food to Weruva and not giving out tons of Orijen treats etc. REALLY got it together and I filled out my spreadsheet. Feeling a little nervous because we began at 11am so did blood test number 3 and it was at 41. He is on two units which I really now think needs to be 1.5 as it was before. I think he just went to finish up a bit of leftover food in his dish just now. 41 seems very low to me!
     
  36. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    That lime green is far too low and especially so on the AT meter. It's best to do another test immediately to verify that it wasn't a wonky strip or something. If we assume it's a valid number (and it's safest to do so) drop the dose tonight to 1.75 u (eyeballed). You could try 1.5 u too but the 0.25 u changes are usually the way to go.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2019
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  37. edenbee

    edenbee Member

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    Ah I should have done that second test yes. Too late now but he ate some snacks and it was 136 at the next reading at 5pm. We gave him some royal canin diabetic food at 5:15 cause he was puking and I was nervous about hypo. When he’s that low I’m giving him food 3 times a day I don’t care if my vet said twice a day. When I do it twice he vomits bile and looks sick. 3 small perfect meals if diabetic food seems fine to me. I’ll go down to 1.75 for his 11pm shot. Thanks so much for answering I was already thinking lower than 41 I’m about to have a heart attack.
     
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  38. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    The warning number that BG is getting too low is 68 on the AT meter so he was far too low at 41. As soon as you get anything near 68 and certainly below it's time to intervene with higher carb food in small amounts to prevent his BG from dropping lower.

    If you haven't read this or it's been a while since you first read it:
    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...prozinc-pzi-insulin-for-diabetic-cats.164995/
     
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  39. edenbee

    edenbee Member

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    Jan 28, 2018
    Yes thank you! I will read that now. My vet didn’t tell me how low is too low. Appreciate it!
     
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