Bubba 2/13 AMPS=93 , +3.5=64

Discussion in 'Lantus / Basaglar (glargine) and Levemir (detemir)' started by Bobbie And Bubba, Feb 13, 2019.

  1. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    2/11

    Good Morning L, B, & L ~

    Bubba was bit higher this morning. I found some hard and some soft poo in the LB after T/F/S so maybe his tummy was a bit upset. At least I think it was Bubba's poo as Forrest usually goes outside to do his business. But, last night I know that Forrest had a mess on his bum ( and momma) so it could have been him. Who knows? :rolleyes:

    Vines for all Beans and Kitties in need.


    ETA: Has anyone heard how Giomax is doing or CharO ( Samhi)
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2019
    Reason for edit: ETA :
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  2. Mandy & Rex

    Mandy & Rex Well-Known Member

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    Bubbba, keep it up and there may be another reducie soon!

    Forrest, not nice to clean your behind on mama.
     
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  3. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    Mandy, check out my ETA on my thread, maybe you know?
     
  4. Mandy & Rex

    Mandy & Rex Well-Known Member

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    No. I just searched for her last post and that was on her 2/10 condo.
     
  5. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

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    Nice Bubba. Forrest is there a need to paint mama?

    Have no idea on Giomax. Not aware of Char0 at all, somehow missed them all together.

    What about Janine & Floyd and Amanda and Shmee. Haven't heard from them in ages.

    I was thinking of Squalliesmom yesterday.
     
  6. Bellasmom

    Bellasmom Well-Known Member

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    Good going Bubba
     
  7. Judy and Boomer

    Judy and Boomer Well-Known Member

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    Nice greens Bubba!
     
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  8. JoyBee&Ravan

    JoyBee&Ravan Well-Known Member

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    Hey Bubba! That 64 is look'in good yesterday & today.
    Connie-Haley-Smile-Fashion-Canvas-Giclee-Art-L12707285.jpg
     
  9. carfurby

    carfurby Well-Known Member

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  10. Bronx's dad

    Bronx's dad Well-Known Member

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    @Amanda & Shmee did stop by Jeff's Leoberry update thread, but no update on Shmee. Maybe she'll stop by here to give us an update with this tag...
     
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  11. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Paul! How are you and Bronx doing. I look for your threads too!
     
  12. Bronx's dad

    Bronx's dad Well-Known Member

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    Hi Bobbie! Bronx is chugging along pretty good, his numbers have been real good :) (knock on wood), but his walking hasn't approved :(. I do need to do an update but don't want to jinx him!
     
  13. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    Oh, Paul, I am so sorry his walking hasn't improved. Is it arthritis or neuropathy? Are you giving the zobaline?
     
  14. Bronx's dad

    Bronx's dad Well-Known Member

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    Neuropathy. He can't walk on his front paws, walks on lower limb most of the time. I am using a B-12 in Methylcobalamin form with folic acid that is a little stronger than Zobaline twice a day. So far, no improvement.
     
  15. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    It is the opposite for most kitties with neuropathy, the hind legs are effected.

    I thought the Zobaline was the Methylcobalamin . I could be wrong on this.
    Can you up it to 3 times a day. It is my understanding that it is water soluble any excess will be peed out. How about posting a question to how much you can give?
     
  16. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    @Bronx's dad , I just checked my Zobaline, and it is methylcobalamin 3 mg. Is your a higher dose?

    Zobaline, methyl 3 mg
    Folic acid 200 mg.
     
  17. Bronx's dad

    Bronx's dad Well-Known Member

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    I'm using 4mg methyl in capsules that I spinkle over his food & a drop of liquid Folic which is 200mcg. So it is a little stronger than Zobaline. He seems to like it too which is a tad strange, maybe because it makes his food look pink :p
     
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  18. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    Can you up to 3 times a day?
     
  19. Bronx's dad

    Bronx's dad Well-Known Member

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    I know extra B-12 is released through the urine, but there's gotta be some side effects of way too much B-12, no?
     
  20. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    I don't think so, it is water soluble , so any unused B-12 is excreted through the urine. I think it would be a good idea to start a thread with B-12 question so that those using a higher dose for neuropathy can weigh in. We have got to get Bronx walking better. :bighug:
     
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  21. Bronx's dad

    Bronx's dad Well-Known Member

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    That's a good idea, maybe on the main forum instead? Wonder what gets more eyes?
     
  22. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    Good question. I rarely stray from the Lantus forum only because of time. But, the Main probably gets more input from all the ISG.
     
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  23. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

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    How long have you been giving it?
     
  24. Jill & Scooter

    Jill & Scooter Well-Known Member

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    Bubba’s higher numbers are still awfully good! Hope whoever’s tummy is of gets straightened up!
     
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  25. Bronx's dad

    Bronx's dad Well-Known Member

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    About 4-6 months. Doubled the dose about a month ago. His BG numbers have been great too for over 2 months which is supposed to be the main thing to help.
     
  26. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

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    I have no thought on this.
     
  27. LizzieInTexas

    LizzieInTexas Well-Known Member

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    Lots of info on the "B's" here.

    https://www.felinecrf.org/vitamin_b.htm

    Is he pee'ing a lot (excessive)? Have you had xrays done to rule out any other issues?

    You can get injectable methylcobalamin.

    Methylcobalamin
    Diamondback Drugs Sell injectable methylcobalamin. It is not mentioned on their site but members of my support group have obtained it from them with no problems. It costs US$39.95 for a 5ml vial of 1000 mcg/ml (1 mg/ml) strength plus US$10 shipping, with a three month expiration date. They also sell cyanocobalamin if required.
     
  28. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

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    My vet ordered for me don't know where. 100 cc bottle of 1000 mcg/mg. $40. I only give 0.25 cc will be monthly, its a life time supply.
     
  29. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for that link! I am going to copy it and study it. I wasn't aware that kitties with CKD needed B12. It just so happens that I was giving it to Forrest for his weak hind leg issue after the hard large feces he passed. I am only giving it to him once a day (zobaline) maybe I should increase it to twice a day.
     
  30. LizzieInTexas

    LizzieInTexas Well-Known Member

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    Is it methylcobalamin or cyanocobalamin. Methylcobalamin is the one used for neuropathy.
     
  31. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

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    I have methyl.
     
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  32. Bronx's dad

    Bronx's dad Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for that link Lizzie. He started drinking a lot (and pee'ing more) about 6-8 months ago. I will bring him in for a script, might be the way to go. No x-rays. I showed the vet a video of him walking a while back and she said right away "oh that's neuropathy" and insisted I do a fructosamine test which I told her was useless and that's where the conversation ended. That site mentions twitching, he has been twitching his two front legs for years. Can they do a full "B" panel to see what B he may be lacking?
     
  33. LizzieInTexas

    LizzieInTexas Well-Known Member

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    Interesting! I haven't heard of anyone using the injectable. Gizmo got cyanocobalamin shots 1x/week.

    I believe so. I think @Marje and Gracie has mentioned something about it, but my memory could be wrong.

    I didn't use Zobaline, I just used B12 (much more cost effective). Gizmo got 1/2 capsule (1/16 teaspoon) with AM/PM PS food. He also got 1/64 teaspoon (drop measuring spoon) of B complex AM/PM PS and 25U B12 (cyanocobalamin) 1x/week.

    https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B0046IET7C/ref=oh_aui_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
    https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B0016003Z0/ref=oh_aui_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
     
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  34. Gill & George

    Gill & George Well-Known Member

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    Hi Paul I'm wondering if part of the problem, if he's peeing a lot whether that means he's also pering out lots of the b vitamins? And wether that means he needs more supplementation?
    On the CRF site Lizzie linked is very informative, it covers dosages as well.
     
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  35. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

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    I thought Dr was getting the cyan form because we discussing Olive's lack of energy. My only knowledge of B vitamins was it helped with energy except the methyl for neuropathy. Actually the link posted above doesn't mention any of the Bs helping with that. In the section cyan vs methyl I'm glad I have methyl. It seems the cyan isn't to well received. But maybe that's what I perceived.

    Sorry for all the highjinks Bobbie.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2019
  36. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    No problem! This is all good information.
     
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  37. Bronx's dad

    Bronx's dad Well-Known Member

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    Hi Gill,

    Nice to hear from you. You were so helpful when I was overwhelmed back when this all started back in late 2016.

    I just started B-Complex. I have some for myself and sprinkled some in his food this morn. The excessive drinking thing confuses me since he stopped doing that when I got him out of the reds and blacks, and this all started again when he is mostly staying under the renal threshold. Vet says do a fructosamine since urine still showed sugar over the last few tests but I think I just took a sample at the wrong time. I have a empty vial and trying to catch him here peeing to bring it in. There is no way he should show sugar now since he has been staying under the renal threshold now for like 2 months.
     
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  38. LizzieInTexas

    LizzieInTexas Well-Known Member

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    That was the reasoning behind my question :D

    B Complex can be over dosed so be careful with that one. Dosing is 1/10th of a capsule/day on the B Complex (using the B-Right I linked above).
     
  39. Bronx's dad

    Bronx's dad Well-Known Member

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    How did you measure that?
     
  40. Gill & George

    Gill & George Well-Known Member

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    How's his kidney function? Increased drinking may be a result of poor kidney function or kidney infection/inflammation or even increased stomach acid.
    Take a look at more info here
    https://www.felinecrf.org/symptoms_regulation_body_fluid.htm
    Since the last labs were 6 months ago if you are feeling that the drinking has increased, I might get another panel done see if anything shows up there
     
  41. LizzieInTexas

    LizzieInTexas Well-Known Member

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  42. JoyBee&Ravan

    JoyBee&Ravan Well-Known Member

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    What # is considered Renal Threshold? And does it mean when BG is high it hurts the Kidneys?

    VALEN DAY.gif
     
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  43. Bronx's dad

    Bronx's dad Well-Known Member

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    Most cats is around 200-250.
     
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  44. Gill & George

    Gill & George Well-Known Member

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    It varies from cat to cat. It's the point at which glucose stops appearing in the urine. For George that was below 200.
     
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  45. Bronx's dad

    Bronx's dad Well-Known Member

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    Vet suspects Sterile Cystitis and does not want to do invasive surgery to find out. Shows blood in urine almost every time and he does hang out by the litter box at times. I capture the urine at home so no chance of needle causing blood. No cure but I give him a good amount of D-Mannose every day & vet prescribed Gaba and that has seemed to lessen the litter box hang outs.

    Bobbie, so sorry. I really should've started my own thread.
     
  46. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    No , stay here, this is great information, I am learning.
     
  47. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Well-Known Member

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    It’s called a GI Panel run through Texas A&M historically but I don’t know if other labs are now doing it. It consists of a cobalamin, a folate, a TLI for exocrine pancreatic insufficiency, and specfPl for pancreatitis. If you are certain that the last two are not an issue, you can get just the cobalamin and folate tests run.
     
  48. LizzieInTexas

    LizzieInTexas Well-Known Member

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    Thanks @Marje and Gracie :bighug::bighug:
     
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  49. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Well-Known Member

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    You’re welcome! Thinking of you, sweetie. Good to see you still here. I know it’s hard. :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::kiss::kiss:
     
  50. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    Saving this thread. Lots of good information! Thanks for stopping in @Marje and Gracie . :bighug:
     
  51. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Well-Known Member

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    You’re welcome. I didn’t respond to anything else ....or have time to read through all the posts. Maybe later tonight :smuggrin:
     
  52. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Well-Known Member

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    @Bronx's dad @LizzieInTexas @Olive & Paula

    It seems there is some confusion regarding B12 so I hope I can clarify a bit.

    There are two basic forms:
    Methylcobalamin: important in CKD (along with small amounts of multi B Complex) to minimize the drop into anemia which almost all CKD cats experience; important in diabetics to counteract neuropathy
    Cyanocobalamin: important for intestinal absorption

    Normally, methylcobalamin has been given orally for CKD and diabetic neuropathy although, as Lizzie indicated, an injecttable form is now available. Cyanocobalamin is given as an injectable primarily in cats with IBD or any intestinal absorption issue.

    The B12 tests done by TAMU target small intestine function. It wouldn’t be the test for CKD- associated anemia or neuropathy.

    Paul....has your vet ever done an ultrasound to see if Bronx has a kidney infection? Blood in the urine and excessive thirst are symptoms and bacteria does not typically show up in urinalysis, even culture and sensitivities. My GA kitty Gus had a kidney infection on two occasions a year apart. He had blood in a routine UA, no bacteria in the C&S.

    Thanks @Bobbie And Bubba for not minding the condo hijack.
     
  53. Bronx's dad

    Bronx's dad Well-Known Member

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    Thanks so much for chiming in Marje. Bronx did have an ultrasound last year and kidneys were fine. That's why the vet suspects Sterile Cystitis, but the only way to know for sure is getting a sample from the kidneys and we both agreed that it's too invasive to do at this point.
     
  54. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Well-Known Member

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    Recently last year? Because kidney infections can come on quickly.

    Does he have symptoms of sterile IC? I ask because Gracie has this before FD and the symptoms were very observable. She did not drink a lot of water with sterile IC.
     
  55. Bronx's dad

    Bronx's dad Well-Known Member

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    U/S was June 2018. He was going into the LB a lot with sometimes very little pee and other times a lot of pee. Blood in urine but no infection present. Started drinking a lot again a few months ago. Also hangs out next to the LB. How can I treat Sterile IC? Should I do another U/S? His belly hair finally grew back :facepalm:
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2019
  56. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Well-Known Member

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    If it is sterile IC, you are giving D-Mannose already and from what I understand, that’s the best treatment to date.

    Gracie’s stopped immediately when I took her to a new vet for us who does Nutrition Response Testing and she found Gracie had high levels of aluminum in her system probably from her mother being over vaccinated as Gracie’s IC started as a kitten. Our vet started an Al detox and Gracie never had another IC issue.

    Bronx’s symptoms certainly sound associated with IC except the drinking part and Gracie also never hung out near the LB. I think a decision on the U/S is yours to make. It’s possible that this is IC but I was just brainstorming other potential things for you. I know how frustrating IC can be; we dealt with it sporadically for three years. I certainly empathize.
     
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