Can someone explain to me what bouncing is?

Haley&Diane

Haley&Diane

Member Since 2015
I've been seeing the term bouncing a lot on this forum and was just hoping someone could fill me in on what it means exactly and why it happens!

If you look at Diane's spreadsheet her numbers have been pretty good, and she even earned a reduction last weekend, but today she was at 125 and then went up to 302 1 hour after her shot! Is this bouncing...bc her levels were low and she all of the sudden went high?

Thanks in advance!
 
Hi Haley, hope this helps :)

  • Bouncing is simply a natural reaction to what the cat's system perceives as a BG value that is "too low". "Too low" is relative. If a cat is used to BGs in the 200's, 300's, or higher for a long time, then even a BG that drops to 150 can trigger a "bounce". Bouncing can also be triggered if the blood glucose drops too low and/or too fast. The pancreas, then the liver, release glucogon, glycogen and counter-regulatory hormones. The end result is a dumping of "sugar" into the bloodstream to save the cat from going hypoglycemic from a perceived low. The action is often referred to as "liver panic" or "panicky liver". *Usually*, a bounce will clear kitty's system within 3 days (6 cycles).
So basically, a bounce can happen if:
  • your cat drops into low (i.e., dose reduction territory)
  • your cat drops into lower numbers than he's used to spending time in or
  • your cat's numbers drop fast
 
There isn't a lot of information on your ss as your new to this. So it's possible she went lower during the night, most cats do for some unknown reason.

Well I see Sonia just explained it so I won't repeat. Try to get more mid cycle tests. I would definitely try to get a PM +4 or one before you go to bed, it will help you to know if Diane drops to low overnight.
 
Now you know why people come here for advice. Neither of my two vets knew what the Somogyi effect was, what caused it or how to deal with it. One showed interest and actually read what I printed out for him but only after I read him the riot act before boarding Noah there.
Be sure you know what you're doing before taking action. Noah's dosage climbed to ridiculous numbers until I had the nerve to cut his dose almost in half. It's not a great analogy but basically the fire is getting bigger and now you're going to throw less water on it. There's a great sticky on bouncing somewhere that will help a lot.
 
Good explanation from @Sonia & Leo!

If I may, I'd like to make a suggestion. You need more data! With Lantus, dose changes are based on the lowest number in the cycle -- the nadir. With the majority of your data, you have pre-shot information. If you look at the numbers from 8/11, your pre-shot number is pretty typical for your kitty. If you didn't test that day, you wouldn't have caught the 62 and you wouldn't have reduced. We try to encourage everyone to get at least a pre-shot test so you know it's safe to give insulin and at minimum, one test during both the AM and PM cycles. Getting a "before bed" test every evening is especially important since many cats have lower numbers during the PM cycle. If you don't test during the PM cycle, you're both missing half of your data and you will have no idea if numbers have dropped and what you're seeing is a bounce.

I would have re-tested with your +1. That number is a bit suspicious unless numbers dropped fairly low overnight and you're seeing the beginning of a big bounce..

@Noah & me (GA) - I hate to tell you this but chronic Somogyi rebound is not supported in the literature. It's based on one ancient (1938) study done on a small sample of humans. The results could never be replicated. Further, it's not based on an insulin like Lantus or Lev. Rand & Roomp did look at more contemporary data using Lantus and with cats and could not find any support for the concept of Somogyi. Somogyi is not the same as what we call a "bounce."
 
I know my memory isn't what it was so you won't get an argument from me. Like many factual things I remember "clearly" I would have sworn there's a sticky saying exactly what I described. Apologies to all, I'm the guy who has lists of my lists.
I do know the value of peer review and unlike some of my older family members I never get in a snit when proven wrong. Thanks for the correction.
Sorry Haley, as a long time member you've probably seen me do this before. Always wear a helmet kids. :(
 
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