Canned cat food for EUROPEANS and INTERNATIONAL buyers

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by kimouette, Feb 28, 2012.

  1. kimouette

    kimouette Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2012
    UK and other INTERNATIONAL buyers, consult this precious document :
    A-Z list wet canned food UK and Europe.pdf
    Sorry for the terrible quality of this document. I do have the original, but it is 14MB large! If anyone wants me to send the 14mb I would be pleased to do it (using dropbox, yousendit or something similar)!
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    The following website has great infomation http://binkyspage.tripod.com/nonusfd.html ...but mostly for People in the UK.
    Calculate the amount of carbs : http://fnae.org/carbcalorie.html
    Carbs in lots of commercial canned food : http://www.catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    If you live in Europe or UK :
    - Zooplus is on online store that ships in most European countries
    - Read this post : viewtopic.php?f=28&t=64843#p712117
    - http://www.cats-country.eu/
    - http://translate.google.com/translate?h ... fb0bcda470
    - http://www.fuettern-mit-spass.de/
    - http://www.pfotino.de/katzen-online-shop
    - http://www.happykittycompany.co.uk/coll ... -food/Macs
    - Useful doc : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... mWmc#gid=0

    If you live in Switzerland
    - You can get PurinaDm canned food from any vet, Almo nature almost anywhere, or other great brands (better brands found in the "A-Z wet canned food UK and Europe") here : http://www.zooplus.ch/ or http://www.katzengesundheit.ch/index.php or Leornardo low carb food here: https://www.qualipet.ch/shop/katzen/kat ... dosen.html

    If you live in Quebec or Canada the following high quality protein LOW CARB brands are available here : (Quebec : http://www.pmcglobal.ca/locat.php?lang=en) (or here for other provinces in Canada : http://www.globalpetfoods.com/store-locations):
    - Evo : 95% chicken/turkey (2%carb) or 95% beef (4%carb)
    - Tiki Cat : Puka Puka Luau (0%carb) or Koolina Luau (0%carb)
    - Merrick : 96% beef (1%carb) or 96% turkey (2%carb) or 96% chicken (2%carb)
    - Wellness Core : turkey/duck (5%carb) or beef/venison/lamb (5%carb)
    - ByNature (without grains) 95% of almost any flavor (arround 5%carb)

    Australia :
    Ziwipeak or Evo cans should be available here :
    - http://www.naturalpetstore.com.au/p/15/canned-food/cat/
    - http://www.pookinuk.com.au/index.php/fo ... -food.html
    - http://petdeli.com.au/category/106-cat-cans.aspx
    - http://www.mypetwarehouse.com.au/
     
  2. lenistar

    lenistar Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2012
    Re: Canned cat food list for EUROPEANS

    Hello,

    I live in Berlin, and there's a nice list that can be found here:

    http://www.pfoetchenbasar.de/200-futtermarken-info/
    Go to the "Katzen Nassfutterliste Stand 13.09.2011"

    Please note that the list includes foods that are NOT suitable for diabetics, so be sure to look carefully at the list to see if it's for diabetics or not ("diabetikergeeignet" means suitable for diabetics). Do you speak/read German? Let me know if you need help!

    I currently give my cat Leonardo brand canned food (not sure that's available in Switzerland), but I'll soon be trying a switch to Omnomnom (not seen in the list) which is also canned but is more similar to a homemade food:

    http://www.katzentheke.com/infoOmNomNom.htm

    It looks like that's available through this online shop:

    http://www.binos-futtershop.ch/

    Of course, I'd be sure to fully read the ingredients list to make sure that the food meets any other health requirements your cat may have.

    I hope this helps!

    Greetings from Berlin,
    Elena
     
  3. squeem3

    squeem3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
  4. kimouette

    kimouette Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2012
    Re: Canned cat food list for EUROPEANS

    Yes I have. Like I mentioned in my first post, most of the brans listed are for UK residents, and almost all the others are not available in Switzerland.

    Lenistar, Thanks for the link with the very detailed Excel file! As soon as I have couple of hours on my own I'll check each and every bran listed as "Diabetiker geeignet: YA". Oh and by the way, I noticed Fressnapf and zooplus.de were often cited on that list. We have Fresnapf and zooplus.ch in Switzerland!

    About, the OmNomNom food, you're right, I could place an order from binos-futtershop.ch ! I dont speak german at all, but everytime I find something interesting in Switzerland that's not in french or english, I use a translator to find the infos I need. I took a look at their website, OmNomNom gives very detailed information about the food composition, but still cant find the carbs.. have you figured out the carb % by yourself? And do they have any canned food with only chicken and no cereals at all?


    :smile:
     
  5. Ann & Scatcats

    Ann & Scatcats Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2009
    Re: Canned cat food list for EUROPEANS

    I live in Sweden and we have the same problems in this country about finding suitable food for diabetics. If you have Bozita in Switzerland, it is fine in the carbs but too high in sodium and phosphourus for cats.
    I use Hill's diabetic m/d food.
     
  6. kimouette

    kimouette Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2012
    Re: Canned cat food list for EUROPEANS

    You would get twice as less carbs with PurinaDM canned food... and this is one of the rare bran you can get in almost any country
     
  7. lenistar

    lenistar Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2012
    Re: Canned cat food list for EUROPEANS

    Hi Kimouette,

    I'm going to talk to the member of the German Diabetes Forum who recommended I try Omnomnom, and I'll get back to you regarding Carb. content/cereals.

    Til then, have a nice day!
    Elena
     
  8. kimouette

    kimouette Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2012
    Re: Canned cat food list for EUROPEANS

    :?: How bad is 1% pasta inside a cat's canned food? I know I should try to avoid all kinds of cereals for my cat, but I found one ALMOST perfect

    Anifit poultry canned food :
    Complete food for cats Poultry flavored
    Food completely balanced for adult cats. Serve as is, preferably at room temperature.
    Made from 100%:
    61% meat and animal* : 75% chicken + 13% beef + 12% giblets (Liver, heart), 36% added humidity (water), 1.85% minerals, 1% bakery products (pasta), :?: 0.15% taurine (how do you calculate taurine if you want to know Taurine Mg/kg?).
    • no preservatives
    • no animal meal
    • no chemical additives
    • no animal testing

    Raw protein : 10.9%
    Raw fat : 6.3%
    Cellulose (I guess that’s fiber) : 0.4%
    Raw ashes : 2.2%
    Calcium : 0.3%
    Phosphore : 0.25%
    Total moisture : 79%
    :?: Carbs : 0.65% (Can it be that low???)
    :?: MEHK 4.2 Mj/Kg (that I have no idea what it means)
     
  9. Ann & Scatcats

    Ann & Scatcats Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2009
    Re: Canned cat food list for EUROPEANS

    To me that sounds good
     
  10. kimouette

    kimouette Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2012
    Re: Canned cat food list for EUROPEANS

    Swiss and Europeans, here are some precious information (sorry for the bad translation, I used GoogleTranslate) :

    Source : http://www.katzendiabetes.ch/2878.html (in german)
     
  11. kimouette

    kimouette Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2012
    Re: Canned cat food list for EUROPEANS

    Oh and I confirm that you can place an order from almost anywhere in the world at the following website (and shipping fees are reasonable) :
    http://www.cats-country.eu/

    Here's what I'm about to buy from them:

    Power of nature " Natural cat chicken" prices (one 400g can = 2 days of meal!)
    2 to 5 cans 2,20 Euro ( 0,56 €/100g )
    6 to 23 cans 2,15 Euro ( 0.54 €/100g )
    24 cans and more 2,05 Euro ( 0,51 €/100g )

    Here's the link : https://ssl.kundenserver.de/www.cats-country.co.uk/
    Then select "Product Overview" / "Cat Food" / "Natural Cat Cans"

    I'm gonna place an order tomorrow and hope my cat likes it! it seems like very good food.
    :)
     
  12. kimouette

    kimouette Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2012
    Re: Canned cat food list for EUROPEANS and International buy

    Here's the BIBLE for Europeans looking for low carb/well balanced/ good quality meat wet cat food
    https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid= ... YyYTA1MGY2

    For Swiss only :

    Swiss very good quality low carb food (but contains certain fruits and too expensive for me!) : Felican :
    http://translate.googleusercontent....e.html&usg=ALkJrhiryPFKO1FrZ5h0WprQvwOzqjxwdA


    For Swiss and German (and possibly other europeans)

    This is my current favorite seller (a nice and very available woman, always ready to help) and I feed my cat with TigerCat Chicken and Lamb 400g :
    http://translate.google.com/transla...rcat---sensibel-pute--lamm---400g.php&act=url

    Qualipet's only low carb food : Leonardo pure chicken :
    http://www.qualipet.ch/shop/katzen/...leonardokatzenfutter/leonardo-400g-dosen.html

    Expensive but good quality and very low carb : Granatapet Lamb and Ostrich:
    http://futterbox.ch/weine/spanien/granatapet/index.php


    For most European countries (but not Switzerland.. too bad)

    This company sells a lot of good quality brans and especially Mac's duck, turckey and chicken that I wish I could buy!:
    http://translate.googleusercontent....cda470&usg=ALkJrhguwot0q7SENL1-G6_TuUSciCx66A


    You want to SEE what the food you are about to buy online looks like? This thread shows a picture of almost every canned cat food available in Europe!
    http://www.chaoskatzen.de/forum/post160053.html#p160053
     
    suki & crystal (GA) likes this.
  13. Priscilla

    Priscilla New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2012
    Re: Canned cat food list for EUROPEANS

    Hi,

    I'm from Brazil and thinking on buying this food!
    you bought them?
    your cats like?
    We don't have good canned food here and it seems they ship to brazil also.
    Ragards
    Priscilla and Zeze from Brazil


     
  14. kimouette

    kimouette Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2012
    Hi Priscilla,

    Yes I have ordered Power of Nature Natural cat CANS (it was the 400g chicken cans) but my cat didn't like it! Im not saying your cat won't! cuz mine is a very difficult cat.
    They do ship to Brazil and their shipping fees are pretty honest, but I was wondering... Are you on a tight budget? And wouldn't it be less complicated and less expensive to make your cat's food yourself? Like this recipe for exemple : http://www.catinfo.org/?link=makingcatfood
     
  15. Donna & Doogle

    Donna & Doogle Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2011
    This link is no longer working........is there an updated link or sheet? I have someone I would like to see it.

    Donna
     
  16. kimouette

    kimouette Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2012
    You're right! Here is is
    https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B-mMJBQ_r05GdDBEY0pWbURmRE0
    Like I wrote in the first post... if you think it's unreadable because of the huge file compression I had to use, just write me a message with your email and I'll send you the original 14MB document with Dropbox or Yousendit!
     
  17. Priscilla

    Priscilla New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2012
    :evil: :evil: Hello

    I decided to make food at home with the help of a nutritionist. It turns out that the nutritionist is reluctant to offer me a diet low in carbohydrates, she wants to spend one with 20% carbs and I do not want at all.

    She is zootechnician and nutritionist. She searched among various veterinary friends and they also do not think good idea to restrict carbohydrates, do you believe?
    I will not give raw food cause I'm scared, then I can not stick to the recipes at catinfo.org and catnutrition.org.

    I need scientific articles about the importance of low-carbohydrate diet so I can show her. I think that general veterinarians do not understand anything, they only know to prescribe diets well known brands of dry and ready.

    Please if you guys know, send the links to scientific articles.

    thank you
    Priscilla Dantas
     
  18. kimouette

    kimouette Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2012
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diabetes_in_cats#Diet
    or found from the same page : http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 2X05001257

    If that is not enough for your vet, you should really start a new thread in the foum. I'm sure you'll get many answers! Just not in this sticky topic about international food!

    Why is that? What part of the recipe is scaring you?
     
  19. jupiter_waltz

    jupiter_waltz Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2012
    Hi Guys

    Anyone ever seen a list showing cat food sold in Australia, we do just have other meat than kangaroos ;-))

    Thanks Brad
     
  20. kimouette

    kimouette Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2012
    This great online store sells Ziwipeak and Evo 95%
    http://www.naturalpetstore.com.au/p/15/canned-food/cat/
    * All Ziwipeak and Evo 95% are low in carb, especially Ziwipeak Venison & Fish which is actually 0% carb and very high quality meat

    Same thing here you can buy Evo 95% and Ziwipeak :
    http://www.pookinuk.com.au/index.php/fo ... -food.html

    http://petdeli.com.au/category/106-cat-cans.aspx
    They have :
    EVO 95% Chicken & Turkey
    EVO Turkey & Chicken Formula Canned

    Otherwise you can buy Fancyfeast online : http://www.mypetwarehouse.com.au/store/ ... CY%20FEAST
    * Make sure you know the exact carb content of the flavor you want to buy

    I'm sure there are many more online stores in Australia!
    Don't hesitate to consult the latest chart made by Dr Pierson! You'll find many brand's details and carb content (including all the brands mentioned above!):
    http://www.catinfo.org/docs/Food%20Char ... -22-12.pdf
     
  21. mrswoodwoose

    mrswoodwoose Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2010
    I find a lot of the information on zooplus helps decide what foods are suitable and for me in the UK their postage is more than reasonable.

    A lot of these foods https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-mMJBQ ... edit?pli=1 can be found on zooplus.

    For my cat, the best food has been Nature's Menu.
     
  22. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Zooplus is pretty fab in my estimation; brilliant choice and prices. Although the packaging can be dodgy (tins rattling around in boxes....)

    Some folks in the UK buy from Germany, from such sites as Fuettern Mit Spass http://www.fuettern-mit-spass.de/
    They sell stuff we can't get in the UK like Granatapet and Catz Finefoods.

    Would really like to sound a note of caution here about Felix 'As Good As It Looks'. When you read the analysis it looks really low carb, and yet some cats are extremely sensitive to this food and it can escalate their blood glucose enormously! (I recall that a UK cat in remission went from normal numbers to 30 mmols after eating this for a day...) I'm guessing that the suspect ingredient is 'vegetable protein extract', which I've also seen listed in the ingredients of some supermarket own brands. Not all cats are affected by this, but if yours is one of those who is, you really need to know not to feed this! (Or to save it in your 'hypo kit'!)
     
  23. kimouette

    kimouette Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2012
    http://www.fuettern-mit-spass.de/katzen ... assfutter/

    For decent shipping fee, they ship to Belgium, Denmark, Germany, France, UK, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Luxemburg, Netherlands, Portugal, Romania, Slovenia, Spain, Hungary and Osterreich

    Oh and they do have GranataPet

    Use translate.google.com to translate the website if you are not a german speaker!

    And same thing for http://www.pfotino.de, even though their shipping fees are little more expensive than fuettern-mit-spass.de !
     
  24. Dr Schrodinger

    Dr Schrodinger Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2012
    I've started using Floyds Pfotenshop in Germany. http://www.floydspfotenshop.de/Katz....html?XTCsid=e71c4cf21ba64d226f9d94ca68e1af81

    They sell Catz Finefood, Granatpet, Grau, Om nom nom (best brand name in the world!), Leonardo's, Ropocat, Christopherus. Petnatur & more in all different sizes.

    They also ship to Germany, Belgium, Netherlands, Luxembourg, Austria, Finland, Italy, Ireland, Portugal, Sweden, Spain, Denmark, Liechtenstein.

    The service is brilliant & they send your cats free toys!

    cat_pet_icon
     
  25. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Juliet, how does Floyds compare with FMS? I know some UK folks find the FMS site a bit difficult.

    PS. Agree with you about 'Om Nom Nom' - the purrfect name for a cat food! :lol:
     
  26. Dr Schrodinger

    Dr Schrodinger Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2012
    It's a little less clunky than FMS & Google Translate deals with it more fluidly. The nice lady, Daniela, who runs it, is also very communicative & helpful. I tried to pay for my first order by bank transfer, then realised my bank wanted to charge me silly money to make the transaction. Daniela simply set up a Paypal invoice using the same order, rather than cancelling & having to do the whole thing again (I'd ordered 45 different items!). I tried writing in German to her, but I think she must have just laughed at my attempt! :roll:
     
  27. GraceAndAngie

    GraceAndAngie Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2013
    Wet cat food for Australians

    The list below was posted to me by Vyktor's Mum, another Australian who has helped me a lot. That little list is the best guide I've found for Australians. I've also found cat food fresh mince, available near the meat section in the supermarket. That doesn't have any vegetable products in it. A lot of people talk about food spread sheets and lists here (Binky's Page is one of them) but they're not relevant to us because the food is different. Americans use Fancy Feast a lot but this isn't any good in Australia as it has grains in it.

    The mince and casserole Whiskers tins are high carb because the gravy has flour in it. The loaf varieties ("jellymeat", "loaf with chicken and beef", "loaf with lamb and kidney" and "loaf with chicken and turkey" and the fish ones) are the only low carb Whiskers.

    The two cheapest options are the whiskers loaf tins and the cat food mince.

    People talk about Ziwi Peak as being very good quality - I've never bought it. I can't tell you about Nature's Gifts, Ultimates or Premium Woolworths Select as I've never bought them either. The cat mince that I was buying seemed better quality than Whiskers as it didn't have as much jelly in it and it was all recognisably meat.
     
  28. Dr Schrodinger

    Dr Schrodinger Member

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    Dec 28, 2012
    Ziwipeak in tins is good, high quality food & a little goes a long way as it is so high in protein. My two can't get enough of the stuff, but I know some other cats won't touch it. Over here in the UK, it is expensive & I can't afford for them to eat it all day everyday. If I could, I would!
     
  29. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Sep 6, 2010
  30. Dr Schrodinger

    Dr Schrodinger Member

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    Dec 28, 2012
    Re: Macs and Om Nom Nom in the UK

    This is really good news for British kitties! \M/

    (However, I am petrified that if I order in bulk, my moggies will decide they don't like it anymore... :roll: )
     
  31. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Re: Macs and Om Nom Nom in the UK

    Juliet, I've just ordered 'Macs' in bulk... But if my cats decide they don't like it anymore then your cats can have it! ;-) :lol:
     
  32. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Re: Macs and Om Nom Nom in the UK

    The order from The Happy Kitty Company arrived really fast. :smile:
    I think being able to buy Mac's in the UK is really good news, as 'good quality' food options for diabetic cats here can be pretty limited.
    For those interested in trying 'Mac's' (the 'grain-free' varieties) I just did a quick calculation from the label analyses and according to those figures the % of carbs from calories is;

    Beef and chicken heart, 1.8%
    Duck, turkey and chicken, 0%
    Veal and turkey, 1.1%
    Duck, rabbit and beef, 6.3%

    As I said, these figures are from the 'analysis' on the label. This might or might not be a true reflection of what is actually in the can at any given time, and for a more accurate picture it would be necessary to contact the manufacturer for the current 'as fed' values. (Some folks do that, some don't. I don't. I take the label value as a 'ballpark figure' and then feed it to Bertie to see what happens! )

    The Happy Kitty Company is here:
    http://www.happykittycompany.co.uk/coll ... t-food/Cat

    Eliz
     
    Monica Lewis likes this.
  33. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Eliz, Did your cats like that new food or was it a kitty reject?
     
  34. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Sep 6, 2010
    Ha-Ha, Deb! They love it (thankfully; otherwise I'd have to pack it all up to give to Juliet! :roll: :lol: )

    Eliz x
     
  35. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
    Darn! Guess Dr Schroedinger, Juliet, is out of luck on some food freebies.
     
  36. Di and Jasper

    Di and Jasper Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2013
    Ive just had a look at Macs food and am about to order some. I am surprised at how little they are fed - for jasper, whos 5.2kg its only about 180g - 250g. I am determined to find a food Jasper likes beside Whiskers ohmygod_smile
     
  37. Dr Schrodinger

    Dr Schrodinger Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2012
    Macs is good. Milo says so. Shame he doesn't get the freebies... ;-)

    Try the Om Nom Nom too, although it's pricier, it's full of chicken hearts & the protein content is high.
     
  38. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    UK folks may want to know that that Catz Finefood is now available from Zooplus in Germany. They also stock Granatapet. So hopefully these may soon be available in UK Zooplus. nailbite_smile

    Delivery charge to UK from Zooplus in Germany is 6.90 euros. Not bad! :smile:

    Here is a link to their section on grain-free canned cat food. If you open it in Google Chrome you can 'right click' and then 'translate to English'. http://www.zooplus.de/shop/katzen/katze ... tzenfutter

    Eliz
     
  39. Dr Schrodinger

    Dr Schrodinger Member

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    Dec 28, 2012
    Hooray für unsere deutschen Freunde! :razz:
     
  40. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
    Trying to get more information in here for those down under (Australia, New Zealand) for food ideas. I always do a search for Australia and then pull together a list of different foods for the folks down under from various posts I find on FDMB.

    I also check over at Diabetic Cat Care Forum in their College of Knowledge for country specific data. Here is their no doubt outdated list:

    If anyone else has more Australia/New Zealand food ideas, please add them here.
     
  41. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Sep 6, 2010
  42. Dr Schrodinger

    Dr Schrodinger Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2012
    Available food for UK diabetic cats

    ^^^This is indeed good news, thanks Eliz!

    UKers: There appear to be more & more of us these days, & I thought I would keep UK food availability in a single resource

    Since so many decent low carb wet foods are now available in the UK via several companies, I have made a spreadsheet of brands, flavours, % carbs, and where you can purchase them.

    I've uploaded it to Google Drive & it is open to the public at : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aq4WIfRfL3G1dDd2dkNtMnNoMDZYaDVxTGtSd1dmWmc#gid=0

    I've also created a pdf file that you can download & keep in your cupboard/fridge/wherever-you-keep-kitty-noms for when the cupboard gets a bit bare:

    https://drive.google.com/?authuser=0#folders/0B64WIfRfL3G1bVl4QXI5alZMZzg

    I've tried to arrange the list by ease of access, so to speak, with the supermarket brands first in the list, but things can be easily rearranged, added & altered if necessary.

    If you would like to add information to it, please let me know, and I can make the document open to editing for you. ;-)

    Please give me some feedback so I can improve information for us Britishers?

    Juliet
     
  43. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Juliet, that is amazing! What an absolute star you are! :RAHCAT

    This must have take you ages.... :shock:

    May I ask: Does the carb percentage you've listed mean 'percentage of carb as an ingredient' in the food? Or 'percentage of calories from carbohydrates'?

    Luvverly to hear from you BTW!
    Hope you and the furries are happy and well. :smile:

    Eliz
     
  44. Dr Schrodinger

    Dr Schrodinger Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2012
    It's % carbohydrate from dry mass.

    Percentage by calories I can't obtain that easily, but I would if I could....
     
  45. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    Oct 6, 2010
    % carbohydrate * 100 grams of food = grams carbohydrate per 100 grams food

    1 gram of carbohydrate is 3.5 calories, for animals (humans have a different number)

    grams carbohydrate * 3.5 = calories from carbohydrate

    calories from carbohydrate in 100 grams / total calories in 100 grams * 100 = percent calories from carbohydrates
     
  46. Dr Schrodinger

    Dr Schrodinger Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2012
    See, this where things go a little t*ts up, as we say in the UK. Different calculators use different values for cals from carbs, different 'experts' recommend different parameters & different data sources have completely different numbers....for some foods, the numbers on the can differ from the numbers on the website etc etc...

    Minefield.

    Anyway, I shall add estimated % calories by carbs using http://fnae.org/carbcalorie.html piecemeal, until we get a full spreadsheet......am happy to add other users to the spreadsheet so they can edit it too?! (hint, hint...)

    Juliet
     
  47. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Hi Juliet,

    The FNAE online calculator doesn't do the last bit of the calculation (to get % of calories from carbs) but this nifty little online calculator does calculate that (hurrah!)
    https://secure.balanceit.com/tools/_gac ... /index.php

    I am very happy to do those calculations, especially given the phenomenal effort that you've already put in. Did you happen to keep a list of the 'analysis' (protein, fat etc) for each of those foods...? nailbite_smile

    Re the analysis on the can label differing from info on the manufacturers' website, yes it is, as you say, a minefield. That is one reason why some folks here contact the manufacturer for the current 'as fed' values. I've never done that. There are so many cat foods and life is short. But I've found that calculating from the label (or website) seems to give a suffciciently good 'ballpark figure' to work with. And for those who hometest we can see the results of any given food on our cat's blood glucose.

    I guess it could be written on the spreadsheet that the values are taken from the label on such and such a date; and then folks can always contact the manufacturer if they want chapter and verse of what is in the food at any specific time?

    Am also happy to help update the spreadsheet in principle, but do bear in mind that I'm a bit stoopid when it comes to 'clever data type stuff'....

    Eliz

    PS. I think the FNAE calculator calculates calories from fat slightly differently to most others (I read that somewhere here...) but apparently it is only a tiddly difference.
     
  48. Dr Schrodinger

    Dr Schrodinger Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2012
    Thanks Eliz.

    I've now added my own calculator to the file (on a different sheet), having been through all the others with a fine toothcomb this morning. :?

    It's pretty conservative & uses 1g carbs = 4 calories, 1g protein = 4 calories & 1g fat = 9 calories (is this correct? I got this from FNAE...) and I'm now populating the spreadsheet with % calories by carbs.

    What calculator do you use Eliz?

    Any assistance is appreciated! I have become so lost in websites & advice & numbers & parameters that I just wanted to out everything in one place...including where to buy it from.

    J
     
  49. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Hi Juliet,

    I use a spreadsheet that was originally set up by a Britisher (another scientist!) from this forum quite a few years ago now when I was new here.

    That spreadsheet calculates according to the same formula that the 'BalanceIT.com online calculator uses. That's to say it takes the label analysis figures and multiplies the percentage protein by 3.5, fat by 8.5, and carb by 3.5 to get calories per 100g. Then the spreadsheet divides calories from carbs per 100g by the total calories per 100g and multiplies by 100 to get the percentage of calories from carbs.

    As you say, the FNAE calculator seems to use a slightly different formula. It seems to multiply protein by 4, fat by about 9.05, and carb by about 4 (although in one example I tried it multiplied carb by 5...).

    My spreadsheet seems to occasionally develop glitches though, so I often run the result through the BalanceIT.com calculator to do a quick double check!

    I think your food spreadsheet is a fantastic resource. Well done for doing that. It will be so helpful to be able to point Britishers toward a document with all relevant info instead of just trying to remember what the current 'good' foods are and where to get them from...especially when one's brain is a tad short on caffeine....

    Eliz
     
  50. Dr Schrodinger

    Dr Schrodinger Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2012
    UK Canned cat food for diabetic (and other) cats

    I've run a comparison & my carb calculator produces slightly higher carb scores, than yours, Eliz. So, the table is now full of overestimated % calories by carbs...but only slightly. (No bad thing, really, I s'pose).

    I've spent most of today plugging in all the estimated carbohydrate levels derived from Guaranteed Analysis from many different sites (sshh....don't tell the boss!).

    We've now got quite a comprehensive list, all the way from brands easily accessible in the supermarket, to the stuff our crazy German friends make, so it shouldn't be too scary for future UK-based n00bs.

    They're brands to suit a wide range of budgets, too....beginning with £1.15 a kilo & ending up with £15 a kilo!

    Oh, and I've put the link in my signature too.

    J :mrgreen:
    xx
     
  51. Marta

    Marta New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2013
    Hi all,
    I am from italy i have a diabetic cat in a difficult situation as, after a first remission fron diabetes, she has it again after more then a year but this time she doesn't react to insulin. She is followed by a normal vet and a diabetologist and they are both very puzzled. She already changed two insulins, but nothing. She has done all the exams to see if she has an illness underneath but nothing. It is a mess. From when her diabetes showed up she eats farmina dry for diabetes. She hates all other diabetic foods.
    My vets think the problem can't be the food, or at least not the real problem but at this point i will try everything. On the site everyone says to switch to wet food but i don't understand what could be the right wet food for a diabetic cat, that is not diabetic specific, that i can find in italy. Can someone help me please, please, please?
     
  52. Dr Schrodinger

    Dr Schrodinger Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2012
    Hi Marta,

    I am in the UK, but I have been searching for what you can buy in Italy.
    To be honest, any canned wet food is going to be better than the dry 'diabetic' food you are giving her at the moment. If I am correct in understanding that you are feeding her this: http://www.farmina.com/?q=content/product/farmina-vet-life-diabetic, then about 27.5% of her calories are coming from carbohydrates. For a diabetic cat it is recommended that they get fewer than 10% of their daily calories from carbohydrates.
    This Farmina 'diabetic' has oats, barley & corn listed amongst the ingredients as "source of carbohydrate" & this is unsuitable for any cat.

    Many of the brands that I feed my own diabetic cat (in remission) are available in Italy. I order Bozita, Grau, Smilla & GranatPet from Zooplus & other websites. They are also available on the Italian version of the site: http://www.zooplus.it/shop/gatti/cibo_gatti_scatolette

    If you are not able to order food via the internet, then it is worth calculating the carbohydrate content of tinned brands available to you locally.

    There are many carbohydrate calculators available. Have a look here: http://www.scheyderweb.com/cats/catfood.html & here: http://fnae.org/carbcalorie.html.

    What insulins are you trying on her?

    Juliet
     
  53. Marta

    Marta New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2013
    I am on humulin now. It was the insulin that worked the firts time. For some reason, that i guess is medical sperimentation, the vets when the diabetes came back tried to change it to lantus. It didn't work at all. Even if right now even humulin seems to have no results at all. At some point we will try to switch to caninsulin as what is happening is that it is as if i am giving her water. It is a really bad situation.

    When your cat was not in remission which wet food did you give her. I will try to order some and try to change completely diet. It is my last chance. So if you indicate me a brand that is right for a cat that is not in remission it could really save me and her
    Thanks so much
    Marta
     
  54. Dyana

    Dyana Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Hi Marta.

    We don't really recommend changing all at one time from a high carb dry food to a low carb wet food, without home testing, as her numbers could drop dramatically. Are you home testing? If not, I would do the transition gradually.
     
  55. Marta

    Marta New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2013
    I home test. So i can monitor what is happening.
    And it would be a dream if her numbers got down dramatically as she is nearly 500 and if things don't change fast the situation is very very bad.
    I will change gradually and i will be followed by my vet but i need to have a brand of cat food that is right for her situation and try. Will you give me a name and the type of food that i can order in itlay?
    I really hope her numbers change as it is our last chance.
     
  56. Dr Schrodinger

    Dr Schrodinger Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2012
    Marta,
    I've given you the names of brands of canned food available from Zooplus Italia that will help your cat lower her blood glucose.
    Try Bozita, Smilla, Grau or GranataPet?
    They helped my cat go into remission.
     
  57. Marta

    Marta New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2013
    Thank you i will make an order and let you know if it works. Fingers crossed
     
  58. Marta

    Marta New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2013
    But of the brands you indicated me there are many types of food which is the right type for a diabetic cat?
    Thankyou again for all your patience
    Marta
     
  59. Dr Schrodinger

    Dr Schrodinger Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2012
    All the Grau food is good apart from the Grau 'light'.
    All the Bozita varieties are fine.
    All the GranataPet is fine.
    With the Smilla, just avoid the varieties 'with vegetables'.

    Good luck!

    Juliet
     
    piri likes this.
  60. Cupcake

    Cupcake Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2013
    Hello!
    I live in Lithuania (Europe). It's difficult to find a suitable low carb food for my Cupcake here. Sadly, none of the above listed e-shops send to my country. I feed him "Catz Finefood No. 3" now but we will finish it soon (we even went to Poland to buy it).
    I've read the link regarding carbs in lots of commercial canned food and have found that "Royal Canin Recovery" is pretty low in carbs. What do You think about this one?

    I've read the A-Z list too. The only complete food available here is Animonda Carny (I'm worried about its high offal content) and Bozita (tetrapaks in gravy, Cupcake often has diarrhoea when I feed him Bozita).

    Any advice would be very helpful, thanks!
     
  61. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Hello,

    I'm pretty sure that Zooplus do ship to Lithuania (Edited later to add: No they don't... :sad: ). They have many e-stores all over Europe including Germany (the main store, I think), Poland and the Czech Republic. If you go to any Zooplus e-store you will find a list of other Zooplus stores (I'll try to post a link later). Zooplus stock many good foods for diabetics including Catz Finefoods and Grau grain-free.

    Edited to add: If you look down to the bottom right of this page you'll find links to other Zooplus e-stores:
    http://www.zooplus.co.uk/?gclid=CLmXjeT ... tAodNDIAJA :smile:

    Elizabeth
     
  62. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Would you consider making your own food? Cat Info has a recipe.

    Cat Info also states you may replace 1/4th of a canned food with plain meat or poultry, which will lower the carb and fat content some, also.
     
  63. Cupcake

    Cupcake Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2013
    Elisabeth, hi! It is sad, but no Zooplus e-shop sends to Lithuania. Sometimes I feel like I live in the Third World! :(

    Dear BJM, I don't think I'm prepared for home-made food making atm. Cupcake has his bowl full of Catz Finefood all the time and I give him raw (beef, chicken or turkey) once or twice a day.
    Animonda's Carny, Bozita and Royal Canin Recovery are available in my country. We don't even have PurinaDM :( Almo Nature is also available, however the latter is complementary.
     
  64. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Oh, I'm so sorry that Zooplus won't deliver there (and I did email them to check this and they've confirmed this to be the case... :sad: )

    Quite a few people with diabetic cats do feed Bozita. So if you can get hold of that it may well be sufficient.
    Also, you may find this little online carb calculator useful:
    https://secure.balanceit.com/tools/_gaconverter/
    If a cat food label has an 'analysis' on it that lists protein, fat, ash, moisture and fibre, you just have to enter those percentages into the online calculator and the little turquoise box on the bottom right of the page will show the amount of calories from carbs.

    Sorry not to be more help...
     
  65. Donna & Doogle

    Donna & Doogle Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2011
    I dont know if this helps but I was doing some research and found that Mars Inc sells and manufactures in Lithuania. Mars Inc does Whiska's and Sheba food. Here is a news story about them http://www.lietuva.lt/en/articles/buisenes/mars_success_story. I know they sell Sheba in Poland and that is a long drive but maybe you can find it closer. http://sheba.pl/ I hope you can find something to feed Cupcake.
     
  66. Cupcake

    Cupcake Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2013
    Elizabeth, thank You, I've already seen this carb calculator. Well, I think I'm under the necessity to go to Poland again :)
    Donna, thanks for Your help. Yes, we have Whiskas and Sheba in Lithuania. However, I do doubt this food is worth buying. Low-carb composition is very important but I think this is not the only factor that matters. This food is not the one I want to feed my fluffy. Will try to go to Poland for Catz Finefoood asap and will feed him Leonardo and / or Animonda's Carny for a couple of days.
     
  67. Donna & Doogle

    Donna & Doogle Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2011
    The Whiska Pates (in the tray) should be a low carb food. They are no worse than the Fancy Feast we feed here in the states. Same goes for Sheba. You want something with no gravy or sauces. It at least gives you an option to use. Anything low carb is best for a diabetic because it will keep numbers down and allow the insulin to do its work.

    Good Luck! :D
     
  68. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Per Dr Pierson, you may replace 1/4 of the canned food with plain poultry or meat. This will lower the carb and fat content and increase the protein content.
     
  69. kimouette

    kimouette Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2012
    Marta, I dont know if you're going to read this... but if your cat is still in the 500s please check for ketones and give your cat a low carb food, or atleast Purina DM CANNED food if you cant find the other brands listed in the first post of this thread. But of course you'll have to test before giving a shot of insulin since your cat's BG levels are going to drop with a low carb canned food.
     
  70. Lori&Scout

    Lori&Scout Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2012
    Just wanted to thank you guys for the info. I just moved to England and was having trouble finding low carb food. The only brand I even RECOGNISED was Whiskas and that's not very good. I heard Butchers Select was decent but I accidentally bought the kind that is "in jelly" rather than paté. Does anyone know whether it is too high in carbs?

    Meanwhile I've ordered some trial packs of Bonita and Grau and a couple others to see if the fusspots can settle on something they both like. :)

    If you go to this link and scroll down to the zooplus ad, and click on it, you get 5% off your zooplus order and help Diabetic Cat Care... http://www.diabeticcatcare.com/DCCCOK/UK.htm

    -Lor
     
  71. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Hi Lor,

    There are a few of us in England. Welcome!

    Butcher's Classic for cats is fine. And yes, Bozita and the (grain-free) versions of Grau are very good.
    Do see the list of foods for Brits that Juliet (aka Dr Schrodinger) has comprised; the link is at the bottom of her posts:
    viewtopic.php?f=28&t=64843&view=unread#p1127353

    Whereabouts are you in England?

    Eliz
     
  72. Manouk & Billy

    Manouk & Billy Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2011
    Hello everyone,

    I'm not sure this is the right topic for me, but I was hoping someone could help. I've been trying to help a friend with a recently diagnosed sugarkitty named Tigrou (I'm not too sure he's going to post on here, as his mother tongue isn't English). He works at a petstore that carry these products:

    http://www.faimmuseau.com/en/for-cats.php

    Anyone has any insights about these?
    I've heard that raw food is great, but I'm not sure about these recipes because they do seem to contain quite a bit of fruits. As for the raw, if a kitty eats some raw meat, should it always stick to raw? Would alterning between raw food and wet food be a problem?
    His store can order some Go! with low carbs so that's probably going to be what Tigrou will eat most of the time.

    Thank you!
     
  73. Dr Schrodinger

    Dr Schrodinger Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2012
    Hi manouk & Billy,

    Good for you for helping a friend out!

    The list of analysis does not include ash content, but when I put the other elements into the calculator (assuming 0% ash), then the % carb by calories is fine for the Rabbit & Cranberry, but a little high for the Duck & Apple, so stick with the rabbit. I agree with you, the fruit content does seem a bit too much for a kitty.

    I alternate my cats between tinned wet & raw food. They don't seem to object! I find that I have to vary their diet quite a bit because they get bored of the same flavours. They do love the raw stuff, though. Especially when it leaks blood everywhere....(bleeearghhh!).

    cat_pet_icon
     
  74. Manouk & Billy

    Manouk & Billy Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2011
    Thank you Dr, that's very useful! :D

    Is there any chance the dog food could be used for cats?
    They're apparently cheaper... But then maybe they wouldn't include the right vitamins and minerals?
    Link is here: http://www.faimmuseau.com/en/for-dogs.php
     
  75. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Dog food typically has more vegetables and fruits in it, which a cat doesn't need. It may lack sufficient taurine, too, which can cause severe problems and death.
     
  76. kimouette

    kimouette Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2012
    Hi Anouk,

    I dont know if you live in Montreal, if so, you should go to Brandys : http://www.brandys.ca/
    If you live in Quebec, you need to call Profil Canin (you usually have to leave a message and they'll call you back) : http://www.profilcanin.com/

    I think both of them sell Nature's Variety Instinct raw medallions that is one of the best brand you can offer a diabetic kitty (especially an old kitty since the phosphorus content is low, which is good prevention for kidney disease).

    You can base your choice on the numbers found in this document : http://www.catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPh ... -22-12.pdf
    If you look at page 24 (near the end of the page) and 25 you have a list of raw food brands with their carb content. The column "C" (for Carbohydrates), is the one you want as close to 0 as possible. But then, make sure the food doesn't contain too much (or doesn't contain at all would be even better) fruits/vegetables.

    I am from Montreal and I have a friend with a diabetic kitty in Quebec that I am helping on a daily basis. If you have any question, feel free to ask!

    Oh and here's the other list (still from catin.org), but listed in alphabetical order instead of phosphorus order... The raw food is near the end of the document since it starts with all canned food : http://www.catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf

    Kim
    :)
     
  77. FreddyMad

    FreddyMad New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2014
    Hi all,

    I was doing a search regarding bozita and found this thread. Can anyone tell me if the canned bozita is fine to feed a diabetic cat or are the tetrapaks more suitable?

    Thanks in advance :smile:
     
  78. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Hello and welcome!

    Bozita - cans and tetrapacks - are fine for diabetics.
    They have slightly different textures. The cans are quite dense and meaty, the tetrapacks are 'chunks in jelly' (I think!).
    One of our members has drawn up a list of UK foods that you may find helpful, and I'm pretty sure Bozita is on there (but the page won't load for me right now so I can't check it... :roll: ):
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... mWmc#gid=0

    We recommend feeding diabetic cats wet/canned foods with less than 10% calories from carbohydrates.
    However, if you are currently feeding a higher carb food we'd only suggest switching to lower carb if you have learned to test your cat's blood glucose at home (nowhere near as hard as it sounds, honestly!) That's because lowering the carb content of the diet will probably lower the cat's blood glucose, and the insulin dose may need to be lowered accordingly.
    What are you feeding your cat at the moment?

    Do consider starting a 'new topic' and telling us about Freddy there, if you'd like to.

    Eliz
     
  79. FreddyMad

    FreddyMad New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2014
    Hi Eliz,

    Thank you for getting back to me.

    When Freddys' senior check showed pre-diabetes I changed him over to Bozita (in cans) after a trial with M/D. Unfortunately, I wasn't overly strict though and I still gave him Whiskas milk and treats. Freddy seemed to be doing well until he began drinking a lot and then the vet found ketones in his urine. Now that he is on insulin I wanted to make sure I was definitely getting his diet right. He won't be getting anymore of the milk or cat treats that I had been giving him. I will start a thread. Thank you again for your advice.
     
  80. charliesmom

    charliesmom Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2012
    Can you please calculate the percentages for the various varieties of Smilla and Carny, and add these to your list in the first post? Thank you very much.

    My cat Charlie passed in Sept, and I am now helping another European friend with her newly diagnosed diabetic cat. I'd like to know how those 2 brands stack up for future reference (also for my 2 new kitties, who are eating only wet food and starting out right).

    Thanks,
    Jill
     
  81. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    If you look in the post from Dr. Schroedinger (aka Juliet), she has some of the Smilla foods listed in the link she has in her signature =Useful Uk food list for Brits. Just click on that link to see some of the values.

    She also references 2 different carb calculators. You could use those to calculate the carb % for the other foods you are looking at. Once you've calculated the carb percent, you could PM Dr. Schroedinger with the values your calculated, and ask if she would be willing to put the values into the food spreadsheet she has.
     
  82. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Hi Jill,

    Is your friend in the Netherlands?
    There's a Zooplus there which sells all sorts of fab foods online that are below 10% calories from carbohydrates. These include:
    Bozita
    Catz Finefood (but not the one with rabbit in).
    Grau grain-free
    Granatapet (often very low carb)
    They also sell Smilla and Animonda Carny (but the latter, as I recall, is too high in carbs to be ideal for a diabetic (although might come in handy if a medium/higher carb food is ever needed)).
    Many of the above should be on Juliet's list (to which Deb gave the link).

    Here's another very nifty carb calculator. You just pop in the %'s from the 'analysis' on the can label, click 'calculate' and the percentage of calories from carbs comes up in the turquoise box on the lower right:
    https://secure.balanceit.com/tools/_gac ... /index.php

    Eliz
     
  83. Nepthaphis

    Nepthaphis Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Hi :)

    In Norway there's a high cost (import taxes and customs) for bying food online from abroad making it economically difficult to go that route. :-|
    At present my newly diagnosed diabetic cat Largo (neutered tom, 13 years old) is on RC Diabetic dry and wet food and is getting Vetsulin twice a day.

    I'm trying to research other suitable types of food - mainly wet food - online that are available from Norway, and have found a brand that sounds promising:

    Nature's Peak Feline Beef & Chicken http://animail.no/nature-s-peak-feline-beef-chicken-400g.html
    Meat and organ meat (40% (Beef), 30% (Chicken)), Cartilage 28,9%, Minerals 1,0%, Taurin 0,1%. (Grain free, no conservatives)

    Nature's Peak Feline Poultry Mix http://animail.no/nature-s-peak-feline- ... x400g.html
    Meat and organ meat(40% (Chicken) 20% (Duck) 10% (Turkey)), Cartilage 28,9%, Minerals 1,0%, Taurin 0,1%. (Grain free, no conservatives)

    If someone else has tips to brands that are available in Norway - other than the regular commercial ones (or if any of those are suitable?) - I'd be very grateful!

    (i haven't been able to find anything from Table 1: Premium food with very high quality here, sadly :(
     
  84. Nepthaphis

    Nepthaphis Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Hi again :)

    Doing more research, I find that I can get this food online in Norway:
    http://www.renskenaturalpetfood.eu/inde ... urimi.html
    Does anyone have any experience with this company that claims human grade ingredients, no artificial colours, flavours or preservatives?


    It seems I can also get some varieties of ZiwiPeak :)

    Cheers,
     

    Attached Files:

  85. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    It is OK to add 20-25% plain cooked meat|poultry|fish to the canned food which will improve the protein : fat : carbohydrate ratios. Baby food, plain meat, nothing else, can work for this.

    And if you cannot get the 'as fed' or 'dry matter basis' values for protein, fat, and carbohydrate from the manufacturer, just pick 1 food and keep it consistent, then work around it. Note that in your signature so folks understand the issue.
     

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