Can't get levels down

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by 4xchooks, Jul 31, 2010.

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  1. 4xchooks

    4xchooks New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2010
    It's been over 7 months now and Austin's BG levels are still through the roof. :-( He's now on 3 units of Lantus at 8am and 8pm. I did our first home BG test today using a new Accu-Check meter and here's his readings:

    0800 - 3 units given
    0830- 26.3 (473)
    1045 - 28.6 (514)
    1245 - 26.5
    1600 - 27.3
    2000 - 26.3 (before insulin)

    What's going on? I'm so upset. Every day his levels are through the roof is bad for him and it feels like it's been forever since he was first dx and I was hopeful we could successfully manage this.

    :cry:
     
  2. Blue

    Blue Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    I have a couple questions as I don't see that you have a profile with info like what you are feeding, or any other health issues. Also, now that you are home testing (YAY) you should set up a spreadsheet to track all your nice numbers from testing - you can look at my 2 sheets for my kitties to see what I record.

    First thing I see is high flat numbers, so I wonder how come you are staying with the 3u dose? For all you know, you just are giving too little Lantus because 3u is not that huge of a high dose at all.
    Please read the stickys with info about Lantus; you can follow the protocol which would have you increase the dose now.
    Tight Regulation Protocol
    LANTUS & LEVEMIR – INSULIN DEPOT –AKA- STORAGE SHED
    Lantus&Levemir – Data Ready to Shoot Low Numbers
    Here's the basic guidelines you can follow now:
    "General" Guidelines:
    --- Hold the initial starting dose for 5 - 7 days (10 - 14 cycles) unless the numbers tell you otherwise. Kitties experiencing high flat curves or prone to ketones may want to increase the starting dose after 3 days (6 cycles).
    --- Each subsequent dose is held for a minimum of 3 days (6 cycles) unless kitty earns a reduction (See: Reducing the dose...).
    -- Adjustments to dose are based on nadirs with only some consideration given to preshot numbers.

    Increasing the dose...
    --- Hold the dose for 3 - 5 days (6 - 10 cycles) if nadirs are less than 200 before increasing the dose.
    --- After 3 consecutive days (6 cycles)... if nadirs are greater than 200, but less than 300 increase the dose by 0.25 unit.
    --- After 3 consecutive days (6 cycles)... if nadirs are greater than 300 increase the dose by 0.5 unit.
    Reducing the dose...
    --- If kitty drops below 40 (long term diabetic) or 50 (newly diagnosed diabetic) reduce the dose by 0.25 unit. If kitty has a history of not holding reductions well or if reductions are close together... sneak the dose down by shaving the dose rather than reducing by a full quarter unit. Alternatively, at each newly reduced dose... try to make sure kitty maintains numbers in the normal range for seven days before reducing the dose further.
    --- If an attempted reduction fails, go right back up to the last good dose.
    --- Try to go from 0.25u to 0.1u before stopping insulin completely.
    Random Notes...
    Because of the cumulative nature of Lantus and Levemir:
    An early shot = a dose increase.
    A late shot = a dose reduction.

    One note on the high numbers: Be sure to test for ketones. If you are not testing now, just pick up a container of Ketostix at the pharmacy so you can test the urine for Ketones. Very important: if you test and see the result is even just a trace, post on the board right away as they are serious and must be treated immediately.

    My next question is what are you feeding? If you feed any dry at all, you should know that the dry food may well be a contributing factor in those high numbers. Food really does matter to a diabetic so see Binky's list below to look up the foods and check if you are feeding foods that are below 10% carbs.
    Binky’s Food Lists
    Feeding Your Cat: Know The Basics of Feline Nutrition

    So now you are experiencing firsthand why it's so important to be home testing.
    When you start on insulin, you first see changes in your kitty and you think hey great! he's acting better so he must be better and getting good numbers.
    Then you test and see still high numbers and say hey, what's going on here??

    Now, things will move more smoothly and quicker, so read over the stickys about Lantus and then set up your spreadsheet. You can see what the others suggest as far as dose increase goes, but you could try 3.5u I bet. Just be sure to follow the above protocol and hold the new dose for 6 cycles/shots or 3 days, and that will give the shed time to fill. After that time, refer to the protocol again and if still not low enough, increase the dose again!
    There are kitties that may even get up to a dose like 6units BID but then go in remission OTJ, so really, 3u is not that high to worry.
    Your numbers will needed to be converted for the spreadsheet.
    BG Conversion Calculator
    I made myself a chart instead of converting every time.

    All that's happened is that you were not testing so you had no idea what was happening and as a result, you were likely not giving enough insulin. Don't worry though; better late than never. Now you can start treating better and you should see an improvement in those number very soon.
     
  3. Joanna & Bix (GA)

    Joanna & Bix (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    (((((hugs))))) I don't know enough about Lantus to be any help, sorry, but I feel for you! Have you already posted in the Lantus forum? If not, I'd recommend it, there are lots of people there to give moral support and offer suggestions, and you can follow along with how other cats are doing on the same insulin & that might help you make sense of the patterns you are seeing.
     
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