cat diagnosed with diabetes

Hi. I am new to this community. I imagine you get a lot of these posts. I am on information overload right now. I will be doing a lot of research, but I could really use some guidance through these initial first steps.

My cat was diagnosed with diabetes yesterday. His glucose was high at 469. They ran other tests, all negative, no other complications. I am still awaiting the results of the urinalysis and urine culture and sensitivity tests (was this test necessary?) The vet wanted to hospitalize him 2-4 days to stabilize his glucose. I didn't feel right about this. They said instead, I can schedule a one-day hospitalization to do a blood glucose curve. It will still be costly, but I am eager to do it if necessary, as I do want what is best for my cat. But from what I am reading on this site, it shouldn't be. Why can't I be sent home with some insulin, instructions, a change of diet, etc? How do I approach my veterinarian about this?

The vet wasn't good at answering my questions or explaining my options in a realistic manner. She wouldn't even provide any food options for my cat to eat, other than some perscription brands online. I asked if I could feed him a can of tuna fish while I await the food from the internet and she told me that the protein in the fish could be problematic because they don't know if he has <insert some illness that I can't recollect> until the urine culture comes back. He was negative for pancreatitis. I would value your experiences and advice. Should I do the blood glucose curve?

I fed him canned tuna for dinner last night and breakfast this morning. Before his diet was a combination of wet and dry food- mostly purina and fancy feast with sauce and gravy (my cats go ga-ga for gravy, lol). I intend to purchase the fancy feast pattes (they don't care for the patte, but I'll mix it with the tuna to get them used to it) as recommended on this site.

Also, and I don't know if it matters- but he began showing signs of diabetes within the last two weeks- right after having an Upper Respiratory Infection. He was on one weeks worth of antibiotics for the respiratory infection, and it seems like it cleared up. I asked the vet if the high glucose level could be transitory, due to the respiratory infection, but she said no.

 

Welcome to FDMB. Yes it is very over whelming when your kitty is first diagnosed with diabetes and information overload will frazzle your brain. But FD is a treatable disease and there are a good percentage of kitties from here that have managed to go into remission.

One of the most important things that you should do is to start home testing. Many vets do not encourage this...however if a person is diabetic they are told to always test their glucose levels. Many kitties will experience stress at the vets office and readings done there can show much higher than they actually are since stress can cause glucose levels to increase. As well testing at home is MUCH cheaper than taking your kitty to the vet for glucose readings or curves. If you are able to get the hang of home testing you can do a curve at home...with much less stress for your kitty and without paying a very high vet charge.

This link gives some basic information on how to home test:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/hometesting-links-and-tips.287/

It is advised to always test your kitty before giving each shot as well as testing during the cycle (time between each shot). This will tell you if it is safe to give the shot and how well the insulin is working.

As well it is most useful to start a spreadsheet to record your readings. The colour chart makes it very easy to see the sort of levels that the insulin gives and how well a certain dose is working. Plus is is a useful tool for you vet if they are open to studying it and to the people on this forum who would be offering opinions and advice. Here is a link to starting a spreadsheet:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/

Food is VERY important. As a diabetic dry foods and wet food higher in carbs should be avoided. The Purina DM wet prescription food is a lower carb but is very expensive. Many of the people here use Friskies pate or Fancy Feast pate which are under 10% carbs... but not the ones with gravy..they are higher carb. Tuna is okay as a snack but does not contain all the nutrients that a kitty needs. Mixing some tuna with the Fancy Feast would be a food way to get him converted over.

Other information that will be needed is what type of insulin is being used and what dose your kitty is using.

The best place to post specific questions would be on the Main Health forum here where you just posted:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/feline-health-the-main-forum.28/

It gets more "traffic" so you should get more replies to your questions. If your kitty has no other health issues then testing and adjusting doses are based on guidelines and a protocol that was published in a scientific journal.



Just breathe, continue to read and ask questions, even if they seem silly. We have all been where you are and it does get easier and makes more sense as you go along. This community has a lot of experienced people who can help you with support and advice.

 

Hi Greenbean,

Your vet does not sound well educated about feline diabetes and this isn't uncommon. If your vet is not willing to listen to you may need to fire him. If your vet is willing to at least listen to other vets show him this article from the AAHA in regards to the subject. https://www.aaha.org/professional/resources/diabetes_management.aspx

Some vets do hospitalize at diagnosis but normally it is because of possible other issues not just the diabetes.

I would for sure buy a Glucose Meter (if you are in the states the Relion brand ones from Walmart are affordable) and do a curve at home. A vets curve can be high due to stress of being at the vet. Again assuming your vet will work with you on that. If your vet will only give insulin based on a vet curve and you feel you need to get treatment now without having to shop I would consider it.

There are some mince style foods that are good for diabetics. They are a bit more expensive Tiki -cat is one that I know of and use. Also Fancy Feast Purely line has chunks in broth that is sugar kitty friendly as well.

 

Thank you, I appreciate it. Yes, I just got off the phone with my vet's office. They are really pressuring me to put the cat in for a one day glucose curve hospitalization. I told them I wanted to do it myself, at home, but they said their way was the ONLY way- it cannot be done by me at home because they need to determine the level of insulin that can be safely used. They said I can bring him in tomorrow morning. I'm not against bringing him in, but if there is another way, I would like to try it first.

I also asked if it was ideal to put him in for the glucose curve now that I've just changed his diet, as his levels might change, but she didn't have a good answer for me, other than 'this is what is recommended'. This is all new to me, so I am very ignorant. I don't know the best way to approach the veterinarians about this. I can't just say 'I heard I can do it myself at home on an online forum'.

Is the 469 glucose reading a very concerning number?

I went to a local drug store and bought a small glucose reading meter- it's called True2Go. Are all meters equal? If I test my cat, what numbers should I look for? Do I test him before, during, or after his meals?

Thanks so much!!

Update: I called another clinic. They told me on the phone that they were willing to work with me to set my cat up with the proper insulin doses without a hospitalization. I have an appointment with them on Sunday. They said I will have to monitor his glucose levels every two hours. I'm more than a little terrified by this though. What if I am making the wrong decision? What if I can't do it? What if I do something wrong and he dies?!

 

Hi Greenbean, take a deep breath, you've come to the right place to get help for your baby. We all arrived here scared and overwhelmed, but in time you'll get a routine down that works for you. The Fancy Feast Classic Pates are a great choice for your kitty. I'm not familiar with the True2go meter, but I'm sure it's fine. Now is a great time for you to transition your food and learn to home test, that way you'll be ready when you start insulin. Have you started testing him yet?

 

Hi,

A glucose curve whether at home or in hospital is done every 2 hrs for 12 hrs or at least til a vet closes.
I am all for home testing. The only thing I see since this is the initial curve, will they be easily available that day if your doing it at home. And what happens if you can't get a test or kitty not cooperating.

It does seem this new place you called might be a reasonable vet since they support home testing.

 

You definitely aren't going to kill your cat doing the curve at home! Vet curves are usually less accurate than home curves because cats' blood glucose levels are higher at the vet due to stress. It's also impossible to "stabilize" or "regulate" a cat in one day. Insulin needs to be slowly adjusted in small increments, and you must be careful that you don't start with too high a dose. Most cats usually should start around 1 unit. Do you know what type of insulin they are going to use? Some insulins work well in cats, and some do not. Lantus, Levemir, and Prozinc are good insulins for cats. Vetsulin or Novolin are not recommended for cats and if your vet wants to start with one of these I would strongly encourage you to start with one of the others. Lantus and Levemir are pricy if you are buying from a US pharmacy, but you can get a script from your vet and order online from Canada for a fraction of the US cost. It is very much worth the price to use effective insulins in cats--there is no point paying less money for an insulin that most likely won't work well for your cat, and the others can be just as cost effective if you order them from the right place.

For most insulins, the starting dose is based on weight and adjusted up or down with daily home tests, and not from the results of a single curve.

I would learn to home test right away, so that you're comfortable and confident doing it the day of the curve. It sometimes takes a little practice to get your technique down so that you're confident in getting a successful test each time. There are a ton of wonderful tips here to help you learn!

In regards to food--Tuna is not a nutrtionally complete diet for cats, so I would urge you to start the canned food right away! If your cat likes the shredded texture of the tuna, there are a few good canned foods out there that have a similar texture. Weruva, BFF, Tiki cat, and the Purely Fancy Feast are all that type, and you could use them to feed and/or mix while you're trying to get him on the less expensive pates.

I would avoid meters that have "True" in the name. For many years, members here have found problems with the drug store meters reading too low and inconsistently. The Relion meters from Walmart are the best in terms of quality and price if you're buying from the store, and if you're buying online people can give you some more options. Have you opened the meter yet? If it's still in the package, can you return it? If not, that's fine to start with it, but I would make sure you're testing with it before you start insulin to make sure it's not giving you weirdly inconsistent numbers outside the normal variation range.

Normal range for a cat on a human meter is 50-120. 429 is high, but there are cats that start out higher and have great success getting regulated! It's important not to freak out at indvidual high numbers here or there--getting your cat regulated is a marathon, not a sprint!

 

Thank you. He was just diagnosed yesterday evening, so I haven't done any testing yet. The 469 is what was on bloodwork performed at the vet's office last night. With a glucose number of 469, is it realistic for me to think he can go into remission with just a diet change?

When looking on WalMart.com for a Relion meter, it indicates that my local WalMarts do not have them in stock, which is why I picked up the True2Go meter.

I will stop by WalMart after work today to pick up the Fancy Feast. If WalMart doesn't have the meter in their store I will order it online from their website. I will use the True2Go meter to practice in the meantime.

When am I supposed to test him? Before, during, or after meals?

One of the concerns I have is the health of my cat. Am I damaging his health by waiting till Sunday for the second vet appointment?

Also, my cat recently recovered from an upper respiratory infection in which is was taking antibiotics- could this have any bearing on his high glucose levels? The vet says No, but I am having difficulty trusting her.


This support is so helpful.

 

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Thank you. I haven't started testing him yet; this evening perhaps, I will give it a go. Your kitty looks so much like mine!!!

 

As was already said a curve done at home is fine. With many kitties it is better since there would be no stress involved when doing it at home. The first(and only ) curve I had done at the vets did not work out since my cat was so stressed that the readings were not dependable. If a curve is done at the vet and the readings are all high they could very well suggest a dose that may be too high. You can do the readings and give the information to your vet. Much less stress for your kitty and much less expensive for you.

Sorry I can't see if you posted this...have you started insulin with your kitty and if so what type. If you have not started insulin then a curve is really of no use. If not on insulin you might try doing a test before eating then at about 3 hours after eating and perhaps another one later. This will give an indication of how well the pancreas is working,

Waiting a few more days will not hurt your kitty is there are no other health problems at this point. Doing some tests at home will give a good picture on how your kitty is in a more normal environment

 

I think your kitty will be fine waiting until Sunday. In the meantime start slowly switching his food over to the Pates and learn to test. It sometimes takes a few attempts before you can reliably get the blood, so by starting now, you'll be ready. Also you will have a truer baseline that is not vet stressed. As far as the upper resp infection, it's possible that an infection can raise BG's somewhat. Get a test before you feed and then another a few hours later to see if his pancreas is helping out. Post the numbers if you'd like feedback, also post if you have any questions on testing techniques.

Would love to see a pic of your kitty. What's his name, and what would you like us to call you?

 

Hi Greenbean, and welcome to you and your kitty.

Infections can raise blood glucose numbers. Did your vet run a fructosamine test as part of the diagnostics? (Not sure how much help the fructosamine will be given that your kitty started showing symptoms of diabetes over a week ago.)

With regard to waiting till Sunday before commencing treatment it is important that you test for ketones in your kitty's urine. You can grab Keto-diastix or similar urine test strips from any pharmacy selling diabetic test supplies. (For info: trace ketones = call vet for advice on how to proceed; greater than trace ketones = take kitty to vet immediately for treatment.)

In addition to the antibiotics did your cat get any steroid treatment for the URI by any chance? (Just covering all bases here.)



Mogs
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Here are some helpful links on home testing:

Testing and injecting tips (has a very helpful diagram of the best place to test on the ear)

Home testing links and tips (has helpful videos)


Mogs
.

 

okay- I will post feedback on my testing status. My kitty's name is Zucchini.
Your support is so helpful!!

I'll try to post a picture of Zucchini tonight.

 

He has not been treated with any steroids, just Clavamox. Yesterday, the vet placed him on a week's worth of a different antibiotic as a precaution because he developed a mouth ulcer during his respiratory infection.

The vet ran a urinalysis and a urine culture. I am expecting the results tomorrow. Would these tests be sufficient, or do I need to do another one?

 

Bandit was also diagnosed with a combination blood test/urinalysis. I don't think you need to do a fructosamine at this point. If there is glucose in his urine, he is diabetic and will need insulin whether it is infection induced or not. Your daily home testing numbers will also confirm his diabetic status.

If his test comes back as no glucose in his urine, then I would question whether he is diabetic.

 

I did it!!! I tested Zucchini's blood! I was so stressed out about this- but it was a piece of cake!! I put his (unopened) canned food by his dinner tray, so he had something to look forward to and distract him from what I was about to do. I tried to snap the needle thing into his ear with that snapping device (pardon my poor terminology), but the snap part didn't seem to be inserting the needle, I don't know if I was doing it wrong. So I just took the needle out, did a teeny prick with it and...the smallest drop of blood came out, the test strip sucked it up and the meter provided results! Zucchini didn't seem to even notice that I pricked his ear. What a relief!

So the results I got are: 153mg/dL

Please can you tell me what this means?

 

Great news! 153 is a pretty good number. Normal range on a human meter is 50-120. Had he eaten prior to the test and if so, when?

 

He last ate at 1PM; the test was preformed at 8PM.
I just don't see how it can be an almost normal level if he tested 469 at the vet literally 24 hours ago when he also hadn't eaten since 1PM.

He is also walking on his hocks.

I used the True2Go meter, which other posters report as providing inaccurate results. I did use their test serum prior to test the meter and it tested within the normal range.

Should I test again 3 hours after he's eaten?

 

Yes, go ahead and get another test or two tonight. Good practice, and it will tell us if his pancreas is working. Walking on his hocks can be a sign of neuropathy. Methyl B12 can help. I use Zobaline, it is made for diabetic cats and has no sugar. You can purchase it online.

 

Thanks. I will most likely get the Zobaline. Zucchini is still relatively young- at 11 and a half years old. He's got a lot of life still left in him- I want him to be comfortable and normal.

 

That's what we all want-happy, comfortable kitties! I look forward to seeing his next number.

 

He's only a babby!

Did the vet blood work include a check of potassium levels? Sometimes that can cause weakness in the legs but you need to check potassium levels first before supplementing and monitor bloods thereafter to make sure that potassium level stays in the normal range. (Too much potassium is dangerous.)

Link for Zobaline:

http://www.ilifelink.com/zobaline-for_diabetic_cats-3_mg_x_60_tablets.html


Mogs
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Yes, his potassium level was within normal range.

 

Did the vet test with a pet glucometer? They return higher BG numbers compared to human meters. That plus vet stress could explain the difference between the vet's test and the one you got at home today. Talking of which ...



... congratulations on your first test! You've achieved the Vampire Kitteh Seal of Approval.




Mogs
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aww- haha-- I feel like a vampire with all my talking of wanting to take my kitty's blood.

They did not use a pet glucometer. They drew his blood with a needle and vial and ran a CBC.

 

The lab equipment would also return a higher BG number than a human meter.

.

 

I tested him again at 11:40PM- about 3 hours after he last ate. His reading was 161.

To note, it was a little more difficult to get his blood this time. I pricked him like six times or more, before I got any blood. I felt so bad- he was getting pissed. He's already on to me - as soon as he sees the needle or the glucose monitor (it is very small) he runs away. But he was mostly tolerant with me. I knew it hurt him because he would put out a little cry. First I chased him around the garage for a little bit than I bribed him with some tuna fish in the kitchen. That's why he was so tolerant- because he wanted the tuna.

 

Low carb treats after a poke help, whether successful or not. You're giving him tuna, so in no time he'll come running for his pokey treat . My cat's BG dropped a lot after removing dry food from his diet. In his case, the first day's drop was the most but he still dropped significantly for another two days and then a bit more after that.

 

Cats have less nerve endings in their ears than people do in their fingertips, so the tests don't hurt them. They just don't like that you're doing something new and strange to them, and they can sense if you're nervous. Bandit fought me tooth and claw when we started, but now he comes running to me when he hears the meter beep on, and purrs through the test because he knows a treat is coming after!

Testing gets easier once you get the hang of it! Are you backing the ear with a tissue or cotton pad? Also, what gauge lancet are you using? I know it seems like using the super thin ones (30+ gauge) would be better, but the thicker ones (26-28g) are actually easier to use.

I would definitely question those test results from the True2Go if his urinalysis does come back with glucose in it, and I would try a different meter just to be sure. If it doesn't come back with glucose in it, I think you can trust the results you're getting. There is a possibility that it dropped because of the diet change and/or infection clearing, but I would feel more comfortable telling you that is the case if it wasn't with a meter others had reported as reading low.

 

I had a bad experience with the True Result that I got from Walgreens. It read Fern's BG way too low. Like reading 150 when he was over 300.

In addition to the Walmart one's being good, the Generic Brand from CVS, Kroger and Meijer's all made by Agrmatrix is good. (I use one of these since I can't stand shopping at walmart personally).

As others have said. It's less about pain for them as creating a routine and training the bean. I started testing with Fern basically in a kitty Straight Jacket, now he sits on the sofa next to me an purrs while we are testing. One way to confine that others have good results with is to give him a small box to lay in and cover with a fleece so he can't move much. The Box and fleece signals most of our critters that this is a safe space for me.

 

Here's a link you may want to look at if you decide to change meters
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...er-ratings-from-consumer-reports-2016.156388/

 

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I will stop by CVS today to see what they have. I'm a little reluctant to purchase a new one without consulting with the new vet first. I mean, will she think I am crazy for using a human meter on my cat? The old vet told me that human meters dont work on cats.

I am still awaiting the results for Zucchini's urine.

I guess the main concern I have now is how to approach the new vet. Are there any questions I should ask? Is there anything I should know to say or ask for to best help Zucchini?
I will be providing Zucchinis old records. I would like to have his blood tested again.
I do suspect that his glucose did go down, at least a little, mostly because he's showing a little more energy. He's still fatigued, but at least now he is back to yelling(!) at me to feed him and if i pet or touch him in "his" bed he yells at me, he really does, not to disturb him, lol. he is the boss, right?

 

Vet interview topics

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BqrojKe9oBVAoexL59pUWidEd7viNmxSqW5l2IBTWjY/edit

 

I think you can probably hold off getting a new meter until you get your urinalysis results back--if there's no glucose in the urine then the numbers you're getting are probably correct.

Your old vet is wrong--human meters work just fine on cats. The only difference between a human and pet meter is that you need to adjust your reference range--for example, normal blood glucose for a cat is 50-120 on a human meter, and 70-150 on a pet meter. It is far more important that you purchase a meter with strips inexpensive enough to allow you to test as frequently as needed to adjust the insulin dose safely and accurately (25-30 strips a week, minimally). Until the price of strips for the pet meters come WAY down, human meters are just fine to use. Bandit has been diabetic for 7 years now--when he was diagnosed you couldn't even buy pet meters (well, not affordably, anyway), so our vet told us to get a human meter, and we've been using human meters this whole time and they've worked perfectly fine.

Here's a link to some vet interview topics: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/vet-interview-topics.156663/

Very few vets get everything right from the start with feline diabetes. What is important is that you find a vet that is willing to work with you on the treatment YOU want to do. This means they support you feeding a low carb, canned, commercial diet; they will prescribe a good insulin for cats like Lantus, Levemir, or Prozinc; and they will support you adjusting the dose using daily home test numbers, and not office curves. As long as your vet is on board with those three things, you're good! I would recommend that you come to FDMB to confirm any dose adjustments your vet wants to make regardless--your vet may or may not know how to correctly dose insulin for cats, even if they are a good vet! This is not meant to sound like I'm bashing vets--they must know a lot about many diseases for many animals, so it's hard for them to be familiar with that level of detail in treatment.

 

Thanks. This is very helpful.
I will keep in mind those interview topics, as well as the insulin recommendations.

Zucchini has been much better today- he is alert and active, even playful at times. He's resumed his role as Boss of the house. I don't know if it is from the change of diet or the antibiotic. The biggest concern I have right now is the weakness in his hind legs is not improving, possibly worsening.

 

The weakness in the legs is called diabetic neuropathy. It will improve as you get his blood glucose under control with home testing and insulin. There is a supplement you can get that helps the neuropathy improve... I've seen it work wonders on some of the cats I've treated. It's methyl B12..you can get the supplement for cats: https://www.ilifelink.com/zobaline-for_diabetic_cats-3_mg_x_60_tablets.html

 

However, if he is showing signs of diabetic neuropathy it means he's likely been diabetic for some time...what did the urinalysis say regarding glucose in his urine?

 

If it is neuropathy, to give you an idea of how Zobaline can help treat the condition here's a video someone shared on YouTube about their cat, Tootsie:





Mogs
.

 

I am still awaiting those results. Hopefully today.

 

Keep us posted on the test results.

 

The Glucose in the urine result was "+3 HIGH." Since there weren't any values to indicate parameters for this, I do not know how to interpret it. Does this number mean anything to you?

 

The last time Zucchini had blood work done was December 2014- a year and a half ago. His Glucose at that time was LOW, below normal parameters at 48.

So I guess he developed the diabetes some time between December 2014 and now. Does this sound normal?

 

My Tuxie was diagnosed as diabetic about 16 months ago...his birth sister Maxie was fine..good weight good food...I tested her every month or so because of her brother's conditions...end of January she was perfect. Beginning of March her numbers were a bit high...mid March she was definitely diabetic. Diabetes can come on very quickly especially in older kitties.

 

Thanks, this helps put things in perspective.

I only wish I could have caught it sooner

 

Sometimes it comes on suddenly. My vet could not believe that Maxie ended up diabetic. There was no reason..good weight..no dry food for 9 years,,good diet...active..etc etc.

The whole point is that you did catch it and it is treatable,

 

Zucchini went to his vet appointment at the new vet. His glucose reading was 401. They gave him 1 unit of insulin. It was Vetsulin . I know most people on this forum did not recommend this insulin, so I asked for one of the recommended varieties, but it cost $300.- by comparison, the Vetsulin costs $50. I simply could not afford the $300. price tag. The vet said the Vetsulin isn't as good as the other brands, but it will work and is affordable.

She sent me home with the Vetsulin and a ton of syringes. She showed me how to inject the insulin. She told me to inject him twice a day. She said I could do it while he is eating, so he is distracted. She told me to return for a follow up to check his glucose on Tuesday.
She said I didn't have to prick him or check his glucose for now. She says that she hopes he will go into remission at some point.
She told me to bring the glucometer that I will be using, so she can compare it to hers.

I will pick up the Relion from WalMart.

 

How big of a vial of Vetsulin? Vetsulin is a U40 insulin. A 5 ml vial only contains 200 units of insulin and a 10 ml vial 400 units. Lantus and Levemir are U100 insulins and a 10 ml vial contains 1000 units. So you have to compare costs on a per unit basis.
Also, one can ge Lantus from a Canadian pharmacy much cheaper than n the US and may here purchase it from Canada.

 

Vetsulin should be given 30 minutes AFTER eating. Since Vetsulin is a harsher fast acting insulin you want to have food in the system before the shot and make sure Zucchini has eaten a proper meal before giving the shot.

 

Many people have had good luck with Vetsulin, I hope that you do! You can always switch to another insulin if Zucchini doesn't respond well. The one thing I disagree with your vet about is the testing. I strongly encourage you to test before you give the shot and a few hours after(I'm unsure of the best time to test since I've never used Vetsulin). The Relion is a good meter, I use one on my cat, but Since it is a human meter, it will read lower than your vets meter.

 

What is the disadvantage of giving the injection to him during meals, as instructed by my vet, as opposed to 30 minutes after?

 

Thank you! I appreciate your support.

Why should I test before and after? To make sure his sugar isn't too low? I'm just trying to better understand.

I see in your signature that you are using 16 units of insulin. Was your cat's glucose levels as high as mine? Do you think Zucchini might need that much?! Seems like a lot!

Also, it says that you switched insulin brands, is it because some brands don't decrease the glucose enough? Can cats have side effects to the insulin, like there can be side effects from medication?

Thanks for your support

 

She said the vial should last me about 1 month, depending on how much insulin I will have to give him.

 

If you get a Lantus prescription, you can order a 5 pack of Lantus Solostar Pens from Mark's Marine Pharmacy in Canada where one pen can last you upwards of 6 months (if taken care of properly) and the unopened pens are good until the expiration date on the box if refrigerated, which is about about two years.

So if you would prefer Lantus over Vetsulin but you were worried about the cost, to summarize:
3x $50 viles of Vetsulin ($150.00) will only last you 3 months, where as 5 pack ($144.00 + $25.00 Shipping) of Lantus pens can last you over a year. Big savings, and you only need to purchase Lantus ~one a year. Just food for thought.

 

You need to test before to be sure his BG isn't too low to give the insulin, and you test after to see how low it takes him. Testing is really the only way to make sure Zucchini is safe.
My cat has acromegaly, a high dose condition caused by a pituitary tumor. That is why he gets so much insulin and why I switched to Levemir. Levemir and Lantus are depot insulins and last longer in their systems.
If you can set up a spreadsheet and record your numbers you and your vet will be able to see how well the insulin is working. I can not stress enough how important testing can be. We've had many kitties who's lives were saved because their owners were testing and caught the low BG in time.

 

Caninsulin/Vetsulin can hit very hard and very fast at dropping numbers/ If there is not enough food in the system before the shot it can cause the numbers to drop even lower. Also if for some reason your kitty does not eat enough food at the meal and you have given the shot, then there is nothing to "buffer" the fast action of the insulin. Any vet who prescribes Caninsulin/vetsulin should always tell their clients to feed 30 minutes before the shot.

With the longer acting gentler insulins like PZI/Prozinc, levemir or lantus it is not as critical to have food on board at shot time. Although it is always suggested with those insulins to test, feed and then shoot to make sure the kitty is eating, but the shot can be done at the same time as the meal.

 

okay! Thanks, so helpful! I will bring this information to the attention of my vet!

I can't even believe all the wonderful support I have gotten from everyone here!

 

I see. She gave Zucchini the 1 unit of insulin at the office even though it had been several hours since he'd eaten. But I guess the 1 unit isn't very much.

 

okay, thanks. I will pick up the Relion meter later today (hopefully, I'm not feeling so good today, myself) or tomorrow definitely. I will test him.

So, he had the 1 unit in the office. I was told to give him another shot every 12 hours starting tomorrow morning. I can do it 7AM/7PM (I leave for work about 7 AM and get home about 7PM). If there is a problem, I won't be there to see it. The vet didn't seem concerned at all and didn't tell me to look out for any problems. My questions are:

1- what physical symptoms should I look out for in the event Zucchini is having a problem with the insulin?
2- I won't be able to check his glucose after the insulin in the morning because I will be at work. Should I be concerned?

 

My cat had normal bloodwork in september 2015. by his next visit - a mere 2 months later- he was diabetic.

 

Btw i love your cat's name! Too cute!

 

wow- it develops so fast

 

Forum stickies about hypos and how to treat them:

Hypo Guide - Print this out and keep it somewhere that you can grab it easily in an emergency

Hypo Toolkit


Mogs
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Have you started transitioning him to the low carb wet food? If you've begun, I would get the meter and start testing before I gave him a shot, since he had been on a high carb diet before and his BG could begin dropping. Can you leave food out for him while you're gone?

 

I started feeding him the FF pattes. No transition needed. He seemed to enjoy it right away. I started feeding both my cats this food Thursday night, which could explain the drop in glucose from 469 to 401.

I eliminated the dry food. He always finishes all the wet food in his bowl, so if I left some out, he would eat it right away. I used to leave out the dry food for him to nibble on during the day, but it looks like that is no longer an option.

When should I test him? Right before he's eaten or right after? This is assuming I am going to inject him either during his meal or right after (according to the vets instructions).

 

Since you've just switched to low carb food, started insulin and aren't yet testing, I think I would leave a little dry out for him to nibble while you're gone. We don't know how the insulin is going to work yet, and to me, I'd rather be safe. Since you're gone 12hrs/day, you may look into getting an automatic feeder. That way you can leave low carb wet food for him to have around nadir time. Did you read the hypo guide Mogs -Critter Mom- linked? Again, I've never used Vetsulin, but I understand BGs can drop fairly quick and steep.

 

I just bought the Relion meter. Should I start testing him tomorrow?

I did read the hypo guide.

 

How long has it been since his shot? I'd test him tonight, just to see where he's at. If you aren't going to be home tomorrow, I'd still leave some food out for him even if he tests high in the AM. We just don't know how well he responds to the insulin. Then test before you feed and give the injection tomorrow evening, then again before you go to bed.

 

Okay. He had the injection at 12:30. It is almost 8pm where I am now. I am not home right now, probably won't get back till after 9:30.

I am not terribly concerned, but that is my own ignorance, I am sure. I guess I feel that if he was going to have a reaction, wouldn't he have had it already? How come the vet isn't concerned about this? I did explore this topic with her, but she said "that is why we are starting him on only 1 unit"

 

Hello greenbean and welcome to FDMB,

I used Vetsulin for a brief time last summer and looking back it was a wild roller coaster ride. It's really important that you are testing before EVERY shot so you know where the numbers are before you put insulin into the cat. The sequence is test, feed, wait about 30 min, shoot. Waiting to shoot until after the cat has eaten gives the body a little time to start working on the food before the insulin arrives. My understanding is that Vetsulin needs food to work properly.

Vetsulin, in my limited experience with my cat, acted very quickly and dropped his number like a rock. My cat needed a substantial meal before the shot and then a strategic meal as soon as 1.5 hours after the shot. This strategically timed meal kept him from dropping into too low and dangerous numbers. My suggestion is that you always leave food out for him to eat especially when you are gone at work.

When you are home on days off or in the evening or on weekends, it will be very useful to do extra testing so you know better what is happening to the numbers and when. When I started testing more, I learned to be strategic instead of reactionary.

It's also very important to get a spreadsheet going where you will enter the numbers from all your testing. It's color coded to help you see patterns and trends. At first it will all be a jumble, but with time and help from the awesome people here the ss will begin to make sense. If you take a look at my signature you'll see where Radar's spreadsheet is. click on it and you'll see his numbers from our current insulin. If you go to the bottom and click on 2015 you will see the data from when Radar was on Vetsulin. When I was new to all this, it was helpful for me to see another person's ss so I could learn what happened with another cat and what I was aiming for since my head was spinning with sooooo much information. Here are the directions for setting up the ss. If you need help, let us know.

 

Hi. Thank you so much! I will take a look at your spreadsheet tonight . I am feeling very overwhelmed and I would like to take it one step a time right now. Which is to start giving zucchini his first set of injections tomorrow and take him back to the vet on Tuesday for a check.

Maybe I will prick zucchini again, but while I love playing with the glucose meter, i feel really bad about pricking him.

I just need to first get through giving him the injection on my own two times for the first time tomorrow.

I will try feeding him when I wake up in the morning, and then give him the injection before I leave.

I will tell my partner to keep an eye on him when he is home, and if he looks spacey or strange at all to give him the food with the gravy.

I am also worried about Zucchinis mouth. If the inflamation around his front tooth doesn't heal, he'll have to have it extracted.

 

Take a nice deep breath and know that we've allll been right where you are. We understand and will do whatever we can to help you with the steep learning curve. Take it one step at a time and then you will feel more comfortable which will help the kitty feel more comfortable. I was really worried about the poking and the injections too. When I was able to relax, Radar could feel my vibe and he relaxed. It also really helps the cat to give really yummy lo carb treats after the pokes. Radar loves pieces of freeze dried chicken hearts. When I started giving him meat, he was a better alarm clock than my alarm clock. Now, Radar jumps up on the table at testing time and he purrs when I poke him. You'll both get into a routine and it will all become much more smooth. One more thing to know... there are very few pain receptors in a cat's ear so the cat is not being hurt with all those pokes to keep them safe. It was mostly me that felt bad at first. When I got over the mental block, the whole thing was easier. Without the wonderful community here I don't know where we'd be with all this. Don't worry. You are not alone. Let us know what we can do to help.

 

I was worried too about hurting my baby when I first began the ear pricks! Now he comes whenever I sit in our testing chair and if I can't find him, I can shake the test strip container and he comes running. Give him lots of love and low carb treats when you test and he'll learn to love testing time.

There is a lot to learn and it can get overwhelming at times, but as Jan said, take a deep breath we're here to help when you need us.

 

When I first started with my first FD kitty he was howling and trying to run and hide and I was crying about hurting him. Because it was SO important to do this testing, I kept at it. I learned to relax and talk softly to my Tuxie and if it failed the first time I would gives him some pats and hugs, but mainly a treat..he is VERY food motivated. I have a light right at my usual test area. Now anytime I turn the light on he runs over to his mat and sits down and starts purring, waiting for the test.....even if it isn't time . I read these sort of stories on this site when I first started with testing and thought...maybe other people's kitties...but that will never happen with mine. Guess what...I was wrong

I still remember the first few weeks and wondering if I would be able to handle all the testing, shooting and monitoring and how frustrated and scared I was. Now I have two diabetic kitties and I can do my morning test and shots with only one eye half open. It REALLY does get easier.

 

Keep a very watchful eye on the inflammation. If it starts healing well Zucchini's BG levels could go down and his insulin dose may need to be reduced.


Mogs
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what kind of treats do you guys use to give to your kitties after testing?

I am returning to the vet tomorrow and will ask her for a paper prescription so that I can purchase the insulin online for a cheaper price. Do I have to be concerned with quality when purchasing from an online retailer?

I gave Zucchini both his injections today. I don't think he even felt the needle.
I've tried testing his blood, but other than the first day, have been unsuccessful in the pricking process. I've watched some youtube videos on it.
I will talk to the vet about it tomorrow - hopefully she'll provide guidance.

 

If you're purchasing from Mark's Marine Pharmacy in Canada, you can skip that step and have your vet fax the prescription directly to them. Or, like with me, they sent my vet a prescription request form via fax and then she faxed them back the prescription.

There is no difference in quality. The price is different because in Canada the way drugs are taxed is different, therefore pharmacies can afford to buy large amounts of Lantus at cost, and sell for much cheaper than it is in the US. There is a video on their website that explains this further, and shows you how they package it.

This is a real pharmacy, that just happens to have a website and delivers to the United States, not to be confused with online phamracies such as 1800pedmeds, etc. I know this because they are actually located in the city where I'm from, I've driven by there several times but didn't realize they were the same pharmarcy until I needed to purchase my Lantus from the US.

Some of the best treats for diabetics are "single ingredient" treats, like freeze-tried turkey, chicken etc. I feed my boys Whole Life and Pure Bites

 

Hiya,

Great to hear you got on OK with the injections!

Here are some links to help you with testing:

Testing and injecting tips (check out the ear diagram)

Home testing links and tips

Try warming the ear for a lot longer than you think might be necessary. Also, every time you poke, even if you don't get a blood sample it will encourage more capillaries to form at the test sites and gradually it will become easier to get the droplet for testing. If you're not already doing so try applying a very thin film of Vaseline to the test area. This will help the blood sample to bead up ready for testing instead of wicking into the fur.

On kitty food rewards, freeze-dried protein treats are ideal. If you're in the US I think Pure Bites is an available brand on your side of the water.


Mogs
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I brought Zucchini in for his follow up. I was told not to give him his evening injection before I brought him. He did have a small meal before we left. His glucose tested at 455 on the vet's glucometer. I also brought mine for comparison- the glucose tested at 348 on my Relion meter.- So there was a difference of about 100 points between the Relion and the vet's meter.

Otherwise, they want to keep Zucchini on the 1 unit and test him again in a week and a half to see how he responds to the insulin. They do not want to raise his insulin just yet, since it could be dangerous.

The vet said he would be happy to give me a paper perscription so that I could order the insulin online to save a little $$.

I've noticed a significant decrease in Zucchini's appetite since starting him on the insulin. He weighed the same at the vet office though.

 

Glad to hear that the vet visit went well. It's always nice when the vet is willing to work with us to help save $$. Did the vet take a look at Zucchini's mouth?
Remember that the high BG number at the vet's office could be a stress induced number. My cat's BG in the vet's office can be 150 points higher because he's so stressed. This is why it's so important to test at home where the cat is much more relaxed and the BG reading is much more accurate. Making dosing decisions based on at home testing is much more reliable, in my experience.
You are doing great, greenbean. Sending you and chin scritches for Zucchini to help you both feel better.

 

origen freeze dried treats. they're excellent. mr biddles goes bonkers for them. i've had excellent luck with those treats in the past if i needed to trick him into taking pills. i could break them in half, stick a pill in it, and then smush it back together. eats it right up!
i havent tried yet but have ordered ziwipeak air dried cat food to use as treats.

 

pat yourself on the back you're doing a great job!

 

thanks! Zucchini and I appreciate all your wonderful support

 

Regarding the injection site: I was using an area of skin along his back that had a lot of give, tenting this area and injecting there. This morning, his posture made it easier for me to tent the area of skin around the back of his neck. Does it matter where I put the shot?

 

Here are a few shots of my Zucchini:



He loves to play in boxes!


...and paper bags!


Super smart kitty reading your responses





time for a nap

 

Brilliant photos! Thank you so much for sharing them with us.

That one with the Kleenex box is absolutely priceless!!! Looks like Zucchini wants to be an astrocat when he grows up!


Mogs
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Love the pics!!! Zucchini is quite a character!

Hope this helps with you question:

INJECTION SITES:

 

Hi. Just want to let everyone know that Zucchini had his f/u appointment today. His glucose was at 140! That's with the 1 unit of insulin. So happy he is doing better.