Cat in the UK just diagnosed with diabetes

Discussion in 'Welcome to the Group - Post an Introduction Here' started by LynRich, Nov 30, 2014.

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  1. LynRich

    LynRich Member

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    Thanks Critter Mom, I think Squiggles is still peeing slightly more than normal, but she's drinking less, so I'll have to keep an eye on her to make sure she doesn't get dehydrated.

    It's difficult to tell how much she drinks, because she won't use her inside water bowl, only the one in the garden & the birds drinking bowl :)

    I don't think Squiggles is avoiding us at injection time, she seems unaware of when it's due !
     
  2. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm. Secondary monitoring is trickier with indoor-outdoor moggies, alright. ;)
     
  3. LynRich

    LynRich Member

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    It certainly is CM ! I saw my vet today when I went to pick up some more insulin , & she says I should delay Squiggles having her annual boosters, until her glucose levels are better, but she's probably safe to have her worming tablet .
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2015
  4. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    I'm glad you mentioned that, Lynn. Our vet advised me to hang fire on Saoirse's boosters till she was better regulated and I completely forgot to ask him about getting them updated since she went OTJ. Saoirse had a parasite treatment while she was getting insulin. It was a spot-on (Advocate) and she had a rare (but not unprecedented) reaction to it. I think she may have managed to groom some of it off her fur, and it put her completely off her food. Not good when insulin's in the picture. Next wormer she gets is going to be a tablet.
     
  5. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    See my signature link Secondary Monitoring Tools for 2 methods of checking for dehydration.
     
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  6. LynRich

    LynRich Member

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    I know CM , it's very scary if they manage to lick it isn't it ? One spot treatment Squiggs had on the back of her neck left a temporary bald spot !

    Thanks for the link BJM.
     
  7. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Aine, does Saoirse still get vaccination boosters every year? If that's the case, I'm just wondering if they could have triggered some inflammatory response (am thinking particularly about her pancreatitis here...)?

    Eliz
     
  8. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Hi Eliz,

    Good to hear from you. :)

    Saoirse was due her boosters in late July and hasn't had them yet. (She's an indoor cat, so thankfully low risk of contracting anything). The only medication that upset her was the Advocate spot-on. I think insulins make her a bit queasy, and like Lisa's cat, Tisha, moving off insulin doesn't help her digestive system either. Relatively abrupt cessation of Caninsulin (on safety grounds) seems to have been the main factor in the inappetence that eventually led to the start of her flare-up (food triggers being the main instigators of the flare-up itself, IMO). She's doing fairly OK now with a food that agrees with her fairly well (Smilla Kitten formula with Chicken). The vet also prescribed Nutramed, an anti-inflammatory herbal nutraceutical-type thang. I still have to be very, very careful about anything to do with her diet (changed her schedule a bit yesterday and the poor girl threw up a few hours later - first vomiting bout in ages but triggered by something relatively basic).
     
  9. LynRich

    LynRich Member

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    Oh poor Saorse :( You sound as if you're managing her really well.
     
  10. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, Lynn. It's better now than in the early days. Thanks to the help I got here, especially from Elise (@tiffmaxee) and Hellen (@ShadowsMom) during the flare-up, I now know what treatments she needs. At the height of the flare-up I didn't know what to do. Saoirse was dreadfully ill. I felt powerless to help her and utterly frantic: it was truly nightmarish. I really was afraid I might lose her. Thankfully we had recently moved to a new veterinary practice - a very FD-friendly one. Our vets have access to Saoirse's spreadsheet and did consults for us over the phone. With their support and the use of BJ's secondary monitoring techniques, I was able to nurse Saoirse at home. Our vets are very hot on this - they believe in minimising stress as much as possible for feline patients in order to speed recovery. I'm very conscientious and conservative about using medications and they now prescribe enough for me to have a squirrel stock at home so that I can address symptoms immediately. We lurve our vetty beans! (Haven't always been this lucky. :( )

    Through months of using BJ's secondary monitoring techniques plus close observation and recording of Saoirse's clinical signs and behaviours, I've learned to spot signs of trouble fairly well but even now I get it wrong, hence last night's bout of vomiting. Food changes are so risky for cats with pancreatitis. The food that agrees with Saoirse best (Smilla Kitten Food with Chicken) is a little bit too low in carbs and consequently doesn't stimulate Saoirse's pancreas enough to produce a good supply of basal insulin and she's running in the 6's - a bit higher than I'd like her to be. Both she and I are happier when she's in the high 4's or low 5's. I ran a mini food curve on Saoirse yesterday and she's still getting fasting spikes in BG (7.3mmol/L) due to the lower basal insulin secretion. I tried mixing a bit of her slightly higher carb food (Kattovit Sensitive Chicken) in with her Smilla yesterday evening to see whether a blend of the two foods might help her BG numbers along. It worked a treat for her BG - 5.3 mmol/L 90 minutes after eating - but it really upset her digestive system (even though she got on OK with Kattovit previously). Touch wood, her appetite's OK today and she's not crouching. At the moment she's relaxing on the sofa; always a good sign with her. (She'd be hiding behind it if she was in pain.) I'll be on Poop Watch for the next 48 hours to make sure her system has settled down again. Oh! the joys of motherhood ... ;)

    How are you and Squiggles doing today? Please give her some scritches for me. :)
     
  11. tiffmaxee

    tiffmaxee Well-Known Member

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    Hi. Maybe I'm missing something here but I am wondering if you think your cat has IBD or pancreatitis? I don't see it mentioned in this condo but maybe in a previous one?? If so and if I can help let me know.
     
  12. LynRich

    LynRich Member

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    I'm glad she's a bit better now Critter Mom xx

    Hello tiffmaxee I have mentioned pancreatitis to my vet, but she doesn't think Squiggs has got it. Also she hasn't got the runs, but her poos are a bit pale., I'll talk to the vet about it. I'm afraid she might have got some damage to her pancreas, as her diabetes was undiagnosed for 5 months ( all my fault) :(
     
  13. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    Pale, stinky, often larger than usual, and soft poo may be a sign of exocrine pancreatic insufficiency, where the cells which produce digestive enzymes have been damaged. The treatment consists of pancreatic enzymes to help the food break down.
    While they can test, sometimes it may be helpful to go with empirical treatment, where you do a trial of the treatment to see if it helps.
    And not every ultrasound, nor fPLI test shows pancreatitis when it is actually present. These tests are not perfect in certain ranges. Is she showing any of the signs of pancreatitis - meat loafing, vomiting, inappetance, etc.?
     
  14. tiffmaxee

    tiffmaxee Well-Known Member

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    Max has always had a high fPL when I've suspected p'itis. The pale poo could be insufficiency but I notice the color changes with what he eats as well. He almost never has diarrhea with p'itis. I agree that treating the symptoms is a good first step. For us that usually means feeding small meals often which I do always, ondanetron or cerenia for nausea.
     
  15. LynRich

    LynRich Member

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    BJM she often does her poos in the garden ( which I clear up regularly.) They don't look large or are particularly smelly. She's eating & not being sick & I'm not sure what meat loafing is ?
     
  16. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    Meat loafing = crouching like the Sphinx, with head down, eyes often squinty because the cat doesm't feel good.
     
  17. LynRich

    LynRich Member

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    Oh right, she's done quite a bit of lying on her side, but I think that's because her back legs are a bit weak at the moment. She's crouched all her life, but from the expression on her face, I don't think she feels unwell .
     
  18. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    When Saoirse's meatloafing, she looks tense. Sometimes she does a semi-crouch, hunched up around the shoulders, but with her back legs extended.
     
  19. LynRich

    LynRich Member

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    I'll look out for that with Squiggles.
     
  20. LynRich

    LynRich Member

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  21. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Hiya,
    My cats like the Thive food but....it's in teensy weensy tins and hugely expensive per kg..... Why are you thinking of feeding this at this point? Are you finding it hard to find other suitable foods?

    Huge hug,

    Eliz x
     
  22. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Hi Lynn,

    That'd be Sarah, Remi's mum. :) Remi's very sensitive to fat content of foods (he also has pancreatitis) and Thrive was one of the better foods Sarah found that was both FD-friendly and with a fat content that Remi could tolerate OK.

    I have given the occasional tin of Thrive Complete plain chicken variety to my civvie as a treat (Saoirse couldn't tolerate it). It is a complete food, but personally I don't like the smell of it - its' got a very 'chemical' odour to it (presumably from the added vitamin and mineral supplements?). Sometimes my civvie's stools are slighty looser after a tin of Thrive, but she absolutely lurves the stuff. But then I discovered Porta 21 ...

    Porta 21 chicken variety - also available from Zooplus - is a complementary food made from shredded chicken breast. It's a bit like Encore chicken variety but without the rice.. It's FD friendly and doesn't have the 'artificial' smell that Thrive has, but it doesn't have the full range of vitamins and minerals that a cat needs every day. I've fed it to my civvie for a treat and also mixed in a teensy bit of it with Saoirse's food when her appetite was sluggish recently. Both of them go nuts for it, and so far no unpleasant after effects. Indeed, in Saoirse's case it has been a godsend. It helped me to get her through the recent episode of slight inappetence without needing to resort to cyproheptadine. I far prefer to use food as a medicine wherever possible. :)
     
  23. LynRich

    LynRich Member

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    Thanks Elizabeth & Critters Mom. I just thought I'd give it a try for an an occasional treat, ( too pricy otherwise !) though she seems quite happy with Applaws & Nature's Menu.

    Has anyone tried the Tuna & Salmon Nature's Menu ? Or is the Chicken one more popular ?

    I havn't heard of Porta 21 before .
     
  24. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    I'm glad to hear Squiggles liked the Nature's Menu food. :)

    You can get Nature's Menu pouches in a mixed pack - 4 pouches each of the chicken/turkey, beef/chicken and tuna/salmon varieties - so you could trial Squiggles with all of the flavours to find out which ones she likes and make sure none of them spike her BG, as can happen with some cats. (One of the members here has a cat whose BG goes high when she eats food with beef protein in it, but is fine with other animal protein sources.) From what I've read here, I think the recommendation is to be conservative about feeding fishy foods, partly due to concerns over heavy metal contamination and partly (IIRC) due to phosphorus content (you might want to check that last bit). I trialled my civvie on all the flavours and she got on OK with all them, but I settled for feeding her just the chicken/turkey and beef/chicken varieties because of the concerns over feeding fishy foods. Overall she preferred those two flavours so smiles all round.

    Re the Porta, in my quest to find an FD-friendly food that didn't aggravate Saoirse's digestive tract I've done a lot of digging around on zooplus and other sites. I'd never have known about it otherwise.
     
  25. phlika29

    phlika29 Well-Known Member

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    Hi

    I use the thrive and remi loves it, it suits him but it is soooo expensive. I get it from zooplus. The only reason I haven't tried anything else is because of remi's pancreatitis. If I do get up the courage to change then it would probably be one of the foods that have been mentioned. The other problem I have is remi's IBD and so I think that he can only really eat chicken and maybe Turkey but definitely no beef, fish,etc.
     
  26. LynRich

    LynRich Member

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    Thank you CM & Phlika, that's very helpful. I've only bought the chicken & turkey Nature's Menu so far, but I think I'll buy a mixed pack, otherwise she'll get fed up with just one flavour !

    I understand about Remi's pancreatitis now
     
  27. LynRich

    LynRich Member

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    The Dr's Best methylcobalamin arrived today , so I mixed half the contents of a capsule ( it's a very fine pink powder ) in with a small portion of her favourite food, just to see if she'd eat it, which she did :)
     
  28. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Result! Well done, Squiggles. :)

    Isn't it always such a relief when we can give them the things they need to help them without making them miserable! :)
     
  29. LynRich

    LynRich Member

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    You're so right CM ! Squiggles woke me up really early today, I had to feed her, as she was hungry. Unfortunately it was 90mins before her next shot was due sso I waited for a while until I got the Other Half out of bed to hold her. ( She's got really wriggly recently ! ) I hope I'm not harming her giving her her injection just over an hour after she's eaten :(
     
  30. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    It's injecting before feeding that can be dodgy, particularly with a harsh insulins like Caninsulin which tends to drop the BG hard and fast quite early in the cycle. Can you check her numbers during the cycle, Lynn, just to make sure she still has enough food on board to last the full period of Caninsulin peak effect?
     
  31. LynRich

    LynRich Member

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    Yes I'll try CM. I did check her numbers a week ago when she was on 2.5 , hadn't eaten much, had been rather lethargic & was due her next injection, & they were OK . I even rang the vet up to ask if it was ok to give her her next shot.. I'm a bit limited because she struggles too much for me to do her glucose testing by myself, & my OH isn't always very co-operative !

    She's due to have another blood glucose curve done at the end of this week, so I'll see what she's like then.
     
  32. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    I'm sorry Squiggles isn't the most co-operative with the testing, Lynn. :( Saoirse was as good as gold with it from the first, so I was spoilt. :)

    Looking forward to seeing Squiggles' curve data later in the week.
     
  33. LynRich

    LynRich Member

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    CM the trouble is, if I don't get it right first time, my OH starts moaning, so I make him use the special needle pen now !

    I think Squiggles is becoming more aware when we're about to give her her shot. OH holds her & she jumps a little bit as soon as I put the needle near her skin , despite me doing nothing different ! I always make a fuss of her & give her some treats before & afterwards.
     
  34. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Just what you need, Lynn: a critical audience. :(

    Saoirse was never fond of injections. She really didn't like the Caninsulin ones, especially when she was on 3IU BID. As I said above, the BG rollercoaster that is Caninsulin really hammered her system and she twigged very quickly that the injections were responsible and made attempts to hide in the most inaccessible spot she could find. I had to block off various hidey holes. She'd grumble sometimes when receiving Lantus injections - it stings - but it was much gentler on her system and she didn't try to hide. Made her mommy feel a little better about having to give it to her.
     
  35. LynRich

    LynRich Member

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    CM Other Half is incredibly impatient ! Caninsulin seems to suit Squiggles, I think she'd run a mile of the injection stung.
     
  36. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    I hope so. Are you going to set up a spreadsheet for Squiggles, Lynn?
     
  37. LynRich

    LynRich Member

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    I'm hopeless at things like that CM but I'll have a go ! I've found the spreadsheets Do I fill it in on line ? ( sorry to be dim)
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2015
  38. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Yep. As soon as you update it, the new data is visible to everyone with the link, hence why we add spreadsheet links to our FDMB signatures. In addition to making BG data available to members here when asking questions, it's really cool to look at all the kitties' spreadsheets to see how they're progressing. Filling in the remarks section is very helpful, since it acts like a journal. Sometimes on the way to regulation/remission a dose might not work as well as expected. Having the record of what has gone before is great because it can help to spot why something did/didn't work.

    If you get stuck, start a post on the Feline Health board and there will be plenty of us to help you get going. You need to use the WORLD version of the spreadsheet and record your data on the 'World mmol' tab. The spreadsheet will automatically update the US mg/dL values for you.
     
  39. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Be sure you make a copy of the google spreadsheet doc, and don't start entering data into the template. We've had that happen before and had to find out who was doing that and get a copy made for them.

    If you have problems following the step by step instructions on setting up your own SS, there are a couple of people that set up spreadsheets. Two that I know of are Sue and Oliver, Marje and Gracie. Send them a conversation (private message) and ask if they'll set up a SS for you. It only takes them a couple of minutes.
     
  40. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for spotting my oversight, Deb. I didn't think to mention copying the template in my earlier reply.
     
  41. LynRich

    LynRich Member

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    Thanks Critters Mom & Debs, I'm sure I'll be asking for help !
     
  42. LynRich

    LynRich Member

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    We've just done Squiggles first blood test of the day ( we're doing a curve.) The result was 7.0 pre food & shot ,but I can't see it on the spread sheet .

    I've just checked with the vet that it's alright to give Squiggles 2.5 iu of insulin as normal.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2015
  43. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    That might be a bit much. (7*18=136 mg/dL).
    Wait 30 min without feeding and retest. It may be OK if he is rising and you'll be available to monitor through the day.
    We normally suggest folks not shoot below11 mmol/l ( 200 mg/dL) starting out.
     
  44. LynRich

    LynRich Member

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    BJM I rang the vet & she said go ahead , so I was a bit worried but I did. The results are on my spread sheet below my signature. The 2nd reading after 2 hours was 18.7 & the 3rd reading after 4 hours was 10.7 So I'm going to watch her very carefully this afternoon.
     
  45. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Interesting that she seems to be going up, not down. I would continue to test and be prepared to give her some higher carb food if she drops below 3. (54 ) Check your conversation. Sorry I forgot to do the World version which will convert from metric to US.
     
  46. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Hi Lynn

    Glad to hear that you're able to monitor Squiggles closely. I will be interested to see if her numbers go higher over the cycle.

    It would be helpful if you could include feeding times and rough amounts of food given in your updates. I'm trying to ascertain why the BG went up so much at +2. Also, what sort of numbers was she getting before?

    Keep a close eye on her clinical signs, especially if she starts looking for food or seems sleepy. If she does, grab a BG test. Have you got some higher carb food
     
  47. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Also, can you add the meter you're using to your signature please, Lynn. I can't remember which one you use. (NB if Alphatrak, 3.9 is the low end of the normal range for a cat not on insulin - that's when you need to make sure you feed and test more often to make sure BG is rising if using the pet-calibrated meter.)
     
  48. LynRich

    LynRich Member

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    I've just done her latest blood test folks ( 15.00 hours UK time ) & it was 15.2 using the UK version of Alphatrak 2 I've got some honey of I need to rub her gums with it & some of her old cat bics, & old wet food which is high carb. I think if she was going to go any lower, she'd have done so by now, but I'll keep watching her.

    I've forgotten how I add things to my signature !
     
  49. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    The AlphaTrak is on there, Lyn. We're close on the spreadsheet. See our latest conversation.
     
  50. LynRich

    LynRich Member

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    Thanks Sue, I thought I had entered the results on the Worldwide version. At the bottom I can click between US & WW, so I clicked on the latter
     
  51. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    I went back in and put the metric in and took out the corresponding number from the US tab. It still is not showing up on the US version. Not sure why. The earlier ones did……I may have to ask for some help. It should convert automatically.

    So I just did the conversion for the +6 number. I'll ask someone to look at it.
     
  52. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Interesting numbers today. Not sure why she was low for preshot and then went up from there. The +2 could have been a food spike but I thought she'd come down after that. I hope more data will make for a clearer picture.
     
  53. LynRich

    LynRich Member

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    It's lower than she's been before Sue (especially the reading 4 hours after her shot & she's eaten ). The previous 2 dates I did curves the third reading was still quite high.
     
  54. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    We were nervous that she would continue to drop with the insulin on the low amps but she didn't drop much. The numbers are safe and look nice, but not what we expected.
     
  55. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Hi Lynn,

    Based on my experience with Caninsulin, that +2 BG spike is very unusual. That said, Saoirse does tend to metabolize insulin quickly. If Squiggles were mine, I'd still be inclined to let my vet know about it. A food spike at +2 might be more expected from a Lantus curve, but it's not what one might expect from a Caninsulin curve - hard, fast drops are more typical of the latter insulin.

    By any chance did she look for any more food at all any time after her morning dose of insulin but before the +2 test (say at +1 ish?) Also, for the older readings you have, was the +3 lower or higher than the PS number?


    ETA:

    Do you know if Squiggles' BG runs lower at night yet? Many cats do. Again, a chat with your vet about what to do about her insulin dose if you get a low PMPS this evening might be a good idea. If it's low and Squiggles runs low, I'd be concerned about the current Caninsulin dose.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2015
  56. LynRich

    LynRich Member

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    Hi Lynn,

    Based on my experience with Caninsulin, that +2 BG spike is very unusual. That said, Saoirse does tend to metabolize insulin quickly. If Squiggles were mine, I'd still be inclined to let my vet know about it. A food spike at +2 might be more expected from a Lantus curve, but it's not what one might expect from a Caninsulin curve - hard, fast drops are more typical of the latter insulin.

    By any chance did she look for any more food at all any time after her morning dose of insulin but before the +2 test (say at +1 ish?) Also, for the older readings you have, was the +3 lower or higher than the PS number?


    CM she first blood test at about 8am, she was fed at about 8.15 am had her insulin at about 8.45 at UK time., Second tests were about 10.15 am & 12.15 pm ( MY OH who helps me can't always be relied upon to be on time ! ) She did eat some bics at about 1 pm. I will tell my vet. She asked me to do a blood curve today & I've got to ring her with the results at 5.45 pm UK time.

    I can't remember about the older readings I'll have to look them up .


     
  57. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the additional data, Lyn. Looking at that, the second test would have been at AMS +1.5. It is possible (though not guaranteed) that the Caninsulin hadn't quite hit it's 'full onset' in terms of BG-lowering effect and that might be a possible reason for the higher +2. It might just be Squiggles' pattern on Caninsulin. As you gather more data, her pattern will get clearer.

    WRT the snack at 1pm, I'd expect her to be hungry by then if she hadn't had any grub since 08:15. :) I found it helpful to keep an eye on Saoirse's appetite to give an indicator of when the Caninsulin was really kicking in. For example, if I fed her and gave her her morning insulin dose, she'd start looking for food about an hour and a half later. In the early days, I measured her BG on several such occasions. It showed that the Caninsulin was starting to drop her BG (about half-way down the steep slope of an average curve), then I'd test at about +3 (her typical nadir). After I learned more of her pattern, I'd use the 'appetite uptick' as a prompt to keep a closer eye on her till the next test. That said, if she was unusually hungry I would test earlier than +3 to make sure she was still in safe numbers and to see how closely I would need to monitor the rest of her cycle. It worked well to keep her safe, and I did catch some unexpected low numbers using that technique.
     
  58. LynRich

    LynRich Member

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    Thanks so much CM, that's really interesting & helpful . Are you going to share all this info on the board ?

    Lxx
     
  59. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    I just did! This is your discussion thread. :) I'm glad you found it helpful, and maybe others might, too.

    I've found that the tricky part of all this is that whereas there are general action profiles for each insulin type (i.e. avg time of onset, duration, etc), because you're dealing with the endocrine system every cat has an unique metabolism, exercise pattern, etc. There are so many variables in play that one can't say with any certainty what's going to happen for any cat or, indeed, for any cycle for that particular cat. The spreadsheet data is invaluable because it helps you identify trends for your cat. For example, I have PTSD so I have major difficulty with attention and focus. The data running across the page used to just swim in front of me and I couldn't make head nor tail of how Saoirse was progressing (especially in the pre-OTJ days). I added columns for daily and weekly averages, average nadir time, etc., which were a godsend. (The one I keep offline has even more automatic analysis stuff.)
     
  60. LynRich

    LynRich Member

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    Oh right CM I understand what you mean now.
     
  61. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    BG numbers aside, is Squiggles showing signs of feeling better on the lower numbers? I like your avatar of her. She is a dote! :)
     
  62. LynRich

    LynRich Member

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    Nov 30, 2014
    I think she is better CM she'd lost a lot of weight over the last year, but I don't want her getting too podgy again !

    She's drinking a lot less.
     
  63. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    I'm so pleased to hear that. Saoirse had weight problems (not excessive) but they only started when she was switched to a prescription diet for urinary health. Further Rx diets for weight loss did diddly squat to help, even on subsistence portions.

    I'm finding it much easier to manage her weight now on the wet food. I worked out the calories and roughly how much to feed her each day. Best of all I got a digital baby scales off ebay (twenty odd quid IIRC) and started weighing her at home. It's great because it lets me know straight away if she's trending up or down, then I adjust how much I feed her. Wish I'd got one years ago.
     
  64. LynRich

    LynRich Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2014
    I spoke to my vet this morning, she's much more thorough than the vet who was looking after Squiggles previously , she asked me quite a few questions as to how Squigg was getting on. I told her I'd gradually moved Squiggles onto a high protein no carb diet & wondered if that had helped keep her reading down, & she said it might well have done. She seems happy that most of Squiggles reading are around the 15 mark. She wants me to do another blood test in 2 weeks & then see if the insulin dose needs to be tweaked a bit more .

    She said with her reading being 7 first thing yesterday, the only problem might have been if she'd had her shot without eating anything.
     
  65. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    I hope the new vet doesn't mean wait two weeks before testing again? We would strongly encourage you to test before each shot to be sure the amount of insulin you plan to give is safe. And with Canninsulin, it is smart to test a few hours after the shot to catch a low number if she has one.

    One of our concerns with yesterday's low number was that a low preshot, after 12 hours since the shot, especially with a short duration insulin like Canninsulin, can mean the dose is too high. More tests will let you see if this is true.

    How about starting a new thread (any time it is over 2 pages, it becomes cumbersome) over in Health? It's a good place to get people used to replying to your thread. People who are following you here will follow you over there.
     
  66. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Hi Lyn,

    Based on my experience of using Caninsulin for Saoirse, I agree with Sue's view. If Squiggles' little pancreas were to start producing a little more insulin on top of that from the Caninsulin injection, it might lower Squiggles' numbers. The pre-injection test followed by one a couple of hours later is a good strategy. I'd suggest definitely getting a test before you go to bed just in case Squiggles runs lower at night. 'Before bed' tests saved Saoirse's life on more than one night when her numbers were in the lower ranges.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2015
  67. LynRich

    LynRich Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2014
    Thanks Sue & CM. Yes I was only doing a blood test every 2 weeks. I will do my best to do extra tests, but it takes two of us to do it, & my Other Half only helps out under sufferance !

    It's a real effort to make him wake up the morning Squiggles has to be tested before I feed her :(

    Do you mean if the reading is low, I should give her less insulin & vica versa ?
     
  68. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    I know it seems like a lot of work, but it is really necessary, especially with an insulin like Canninsulin, which can have a rapid onset. Once you get it down, it only takes a minute to test and dose. If you want, post on Health and you'll get lots of help starting the process.

    Your preshot yesterday morning suggests the dose could be too high. (We just don't see Canninsulin normally giving a low number 12 hours after the shot). Once you started wet low carb, it could be that her numbers will start to lower over time and you need to be on top of that. Yes, I would suggest anytime you get a number under 200 (about 11 metric) you shoot less (after stalling to make sure it is a rising, not falling number)

    Someone once said that we wouldn't blindly give our 2 legged children insulin without testing first; we do the same for our 4 legged ones.;)
     
  69. LynRich

    LynRich Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2014
    Thanks Sue, I can see exactly what you mean about the wet carb lowering Squiggles blood sugar levels over time . So if it's under 11 metric , feed her & then retest 30mins - 1 hour later , to see what Squiggles BS level has done before giving her the shot & maybe reducing the amount.
     
  70. phlika29

    phlika29 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2014
    No if you are stalling you don't feed. So if you get a low number you wait 20 minutes without feeding and then retest. If the number is rising you can then feed and shoot. You don't want the new figure to be affected by food as you are checking that she isn't still falling. Does that make sense?

    But not sure when the give a reduced dose. I would advise as use mentioned that you start a thread in health asking more questions about caninsulin dosing.
     
  71. LynRich

    LynRich Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2014
    Thanks Phlika.
     
  72. phlika29

    phlika29 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2014
    Hopefully Sue may be able to advise a little more on the reduced dose :)
     
  73. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Lyn has moved over to Health. :joyful:
     
  74. phlika29

    phlika29 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2014
    Yes just realised and posted there. Thanks sue:) The perils of only checking my alerts;)
     
  75. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    It'll help us give you feedback if you add a few things to your signature.

    Editing your Signature

    In the upper right corner of the screen, within the dark blue bar, you will see ID, Inbox, and Alerts

    Click on your ID.

    On the left, under Settings, Click on Signature.
    This is where you will put information that helps us give you feedback.
    This is where you paste the link for your spreadsheet, once it is set up.
    Add any other text, such as
    your name,
    cat's name,
    date of Dx (diagnosis)
    insulin
    meter
    any other pertinent issues like if there are any food issues, history of DKA, hepatic lipidosis,

    pancreatitis, allergies, IBD, etc.
    Click the Save Changes button at the bottom.

    Always click the Save Changes button at the bottom when you have changed anything.
     
  76. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Thanks for the directions, Sue! :)
     
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