Cat won't eat

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by popposgrl, Apr 27, 2012.

  1. popposgrl

    popposgrl Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2012
    Hi there
    I just brought my cat home from the hospital this afternoon. He was diagnosed with diabetes a month ago. We have him at 3 units of ProZinc. Last Monday he was eating a hard kibble and it caught in his teeth. He ran screaming, shaking his head back and forth and I finally got him stopped and removed it. He then stopped eating.We took him to the vet and they said there was an infection in his mouth. He is on Clyndimacin (spelling) as of Weds. He stopped eating altogether and Thursday I took him into the vet and they admitted him. I picked him up this afternoon at 4pm. His last insulin was at 8:30am. I tried feeding him at 8pm and he is refusing to eat. I put several cans of Fancy Feast with gravy as the vet said that was what he ate there. He is curled in a dark corner and is sleeping and won't come out. I have a IV set up for his water hydration but he was fine when we left the vets...help...thank you.

    Mommy on the edge....
     
  2. Ry & Scooter

    Ry & Scooter Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2011
    Have you tried syringe feeding him?

    Ask your vet for a 5 or 6cc oral feeding/medicating syringe. Puree some canned food like FF. I would probably use high carb gravy food because you are feeding a high carb dry diet, and I do not think you are home testing. Add some water if necessary so it becomes a thin liquid you can easily draw in the syringe. To restrain kitty, wrap him in a towel around his neck and chest like a bib, and put your knees over his back end and kinda sit on him to keep him from backing up. Use your index finger and thumb to open his mouth, kind of like putting a bit on a horse, and slowly dispense the food into his cheek, making sure he is swallowing it and not inhaling it.

    Also - as you may have already learned, dry food is very, very bad for a diabetic cat. Most dry foods are 30-50% carbohydrates. Cats are obligate carnivores (strictly meat eaters), and need no more than 10% carbs (we prefer below 7%) in their diet. Feeding a cat dry food would be like feeding a diabetic human nothing but Twinkies and Coke. Feeding a dry, moisture depleted diet can cause all sorts of problems in their system in the future like urinary tract crystals, chronic renal failure (CRF), and nasty skin conditions due to wheat/corn allergies. And it will make managing his diabetes next to impossible. There are some dry foods that are low carb, but they can still cause blood glucose problems in cats because of their starch content. We recommend low carb pate style canned foods - really anything below 7% carbs on Janet and Binky's food charts will do.

    Also - are you hometesting your kitty? Home testing is the only surefire way to keep your cat safe and healthy. With home testing you will know your kitty's numbers and you will know that his insulin dose is right for him. Too high of a dose and he could go hypoglycemic and possibly die, too low of a dose and he could go DKA (diabetic ketoacidosis) which is also deadly. High blood glucose long term also causes damage to the body's organs and neuropathy of the hind legs.

    To home test, you need to pick up a glucometer from a pharmacy or get one for the cost of shipping by clicking the "Home Testing Kits" image at the top of the page. Similar to how a diabetic human pokes their finger to draw their blood and test it, we poke the edge of our kitties ears (or paw pads if they are VERY stubborn) and test using the blood drawn from there. It is simple, painless, and by home testing and tracking the numbers you will be in control of your cat's diabetes and you will be able to make sure your kitty is on the tracks for being SAFE and HEALTHY.

    If your vet tries to tell you home testing is pointless (most do) - ask them if a human doctor would EVER tell a parent of a diabetic child to shoot insulin blindly into their child without testing. NO - then WHY would we do it to our cats? A once in a while blood glucose test at the vets is NOT ENOUGH - blood glucose can be influenced by stress and vet offices are high stress places. That means the blood glucose levels your vet sees are artificially inflated by stress, and the vet will think your cat is not getting enough insulin, and likely drastically increase your dose. So when your cat gets out of that high stress environment (home) and his levels drop, you shoot that super high insulin dose into him, making it hypo, which CAN and HAS killed many unfortunate kitties. I am not saying vets are bad, but many of them just don't have the time or desire to do more research on FD because it is not a "normal" problem and that unfortunately results in many kitties being put on the wrong, outdated, and potentially dangerous treatment regime.

    Those points aside, welcome to FDMB. You have truly found the best place for you and your kitty. It is a tough roller coaster ride of emotions but everyone here is willing to help and get you on the right track again. :smile:
     
  3. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Welcome. Sorry to see your cat isn't feeling well. It is very likely that the vet visit has stressed him and very possible that the antibiotic may have upset his stomach. Many antibiotics cause upset stomachs and inappetance (refusal to eat). A teaspoon of plain yogurt a few hours after antibiotic doses (so it doesn't interfere with the antibiotic) may help put some good bacteria back in, as the Clindamycin wipes out both bad and good bacteria.

    Until he eats, do not give insulin unless home glucose testing shows he needs it, or secondary moitoring options show this. (see the link in my signature for secondary monitoring options)

    Do check with your vet if he isn't eating, drinking, begins vomiting, or has diarrhea - common side effects of antibiotics. If he hasn't eaten by tomorrow morning, I'd be inclined to take him back to the vet. There are prescription meds which may help.


    Once he is back to eating:
    Safety first before you start making changes.

    The only 2 safe ways to make dietary changes to a feline diabetic are :
    1) Testing him while you make those changes. Glucose levels may drop as much as 100 points (US) when switching to a completely canned or raw low carb diet.
    or
    2) if you cannot test his blood glucose, stopping the insulin while you make the food changes. If you do this, you must be checking for ketones in the urine , because those can cause fatal complications.

    We strongly recommend option 1. Testing will keep your cat safe while you manage his diabetes.
     
  4. popposgrl

    popposgrl Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2012
    Thank you for the info. Skye(my heartache right now) usually eats wet food. The kibble was a treat that went haywire, sorry, I'm not real coherent now. I have requested a home kit from Rebecca (the WONDERFUL) who helped me get registered correctly so that I could post. I tried yogurt this morning at 5am. No go. The uplifting thing was he came looking for me(this is his usual time to eat.) I opened 4 different cans of food and then put plain yogurt, I also refreshed his water and he is still turning his nose up. Can I use a syringe that I have for cough syrup? Or is a feeder syringe different? He missed last nights insulin dose due to not eating. If it were possible (which we all know is) I would swear he's not eating because he knows he gets a shot afterwards!! :)
    I forgot that antibiotics make you sick on an empty stomach...DUH! Thanks for reminding me. If I do the syringe thing, I can put his med in there can't I? Unless it's an extended release capsule...I'll check with my pharmacist. Also, my brother was diabetic, can I use the same strips??
    AGAIN, I CANNOT stress enough the relief I felt when I saw replies to my post!! I am now going to puree some fancy feast, add yogurt and wash the heck out of my syringe....

    Mommy NOT on the edge...so much!!!
    p.s. The secondary monitoring page was GREAT!!
     
  5. Ry & Scooter

    Ry & Scooter Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2011
    You can use any large needleless syringe for feeding, just make sure its washed out really well or you can sterilize it in rubbing alcohol if you need. The medication/oral feeding syringes might have a wider opening so food doesn't clog up but I'm not sure. :D

    If his meds are liquid, I don't see why you couldn't give them in the syringe. I would not want to open up a capsule and mix it in food though. I pill Scooter similar to force feeding... I open his mouth, pop the pill in, and give him a shot of water or pureed food to make him swallow it. Easy as pie :D

    I think you have to wait 2 hours after giving antibiotics to give dairy. Some of them have a reaction with the calcium (or something) and it binds the antibiotic, making it less effective.

    Testing strips are generally meter specific, so if you and your brother are using different meters they will not work. But as long as the strips aren't expired you could use them if your meter takes them.
     
  6. popposgrl

    popposgrl Member

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    Apr 27, 2012
    Boy, I'm glad I checked back in before feeding!!! I put his yogurt in with his food....not good obviously!!! Pharmacist said I could open the capsule and mix it. It is not an extended release, otherwise no...I just don't want to traumatize Skye anymore than I have to. Bad enough he is going to get ganged up on to be force fed and then have Mom shove a pill down his throat. I'm telling you, his three fur sisters are having a field day watching all the dramatic goings-on with Skye...I'm going to be testing them when the meter gets here.
    Thanks again for being a calming force in the wind tossed world I've been blown into!!!
    ~Patti
     
  7. squeem3

    squeem3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Use an oral syringe. The Human pharmacy may have some (for giving young children medicine). Or you can get some from the vet. A 3 to 5 ml syringe is a good size, can use 10 ml as well. Or go to the pet store and buy a pet feeding syringe. It's with the KMR and other puppy/kitten milk replacer stuff.

    [​IMG]

    You need to use the test strips that the meter uses. Check the instruction booklet or look at the product web site.Test strips are not interchangable between different brands or even different models of a meter made by the same company.

    Any Human blood glucose meter works for a cat. You don't need a pet meter.


    Ask the vet for some prescription A/D food. It's a high calorie food for sick pets. You can make it really soupy and syringe feed it. It's not the greatest food for a diabetic cat but at the moment you need to get ANY food into your cat.

    You can also ask the vet for FortiFlora. It's a powdered supplement that makes any food really really appetizing to cats. You can mix some in soupy canned food and syringe it and then later when your cat is eating on his own, sprinkle it on the food to keep him eating.
     
  8. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Hang in there - this is a process, not an event, and a lot of us call it a dance. There are steps you will learn to do, and sometimes your partner kitty has NOT taken lessons or read the book "How to be a Feline Diabetic"!!

    The home glucose testing is one of the most critical tools you can use to monitor the health of your feline diabetic. It protects your cat by letting you know if it is safe to give insulin, and there are protocols on how to regulate the insulin dose based on home testing. At a minimum, you test before each shot, and somewhere near the nadir, the lowest glucose level the insulin causes. This is usually around +5 to +7 hours after giving Lantus, Levemir, ProZinc, or PZI insulins, although there are variations within individual cats.

    Another note: vets have to know a lot about a lot of different species. It can be difficult for them to be current on everything your kitty needs. Because of this, we have veterinary articles which may be shared with them to help them get up to date, when they are willing to do so. We have info on home testing, use of human glucometer in the feline, regulation protocols for Lantus, and more, if and when needed.

    Once things are calmed down a bit, pop over to Cat Info for a vet written site on feline nutrition. You'll see that the general dietary changes we recommend for the diabetic cat are the same for all the cats - less than 10% calories from carbohydrates, all wet diet (canned or raw).
     
  9. popposgrl

    popposgrl Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2012
    Well, after missing two insulin shots, I pureed his food, added a little water to make it soupy. Got Skye all wrapped in a towel, profusely apologizing for what I was about to put him through. After the third syringe full, Skye decided he would eat the food himself. 30 minutes later I gave him his shot and collapsed in a puddle...."dance?" this is a dance? LOL
    I am heading to Wal-Greens to get some strips to use to monitor his glucose until the monitor arrives. My husband took pictures of Skye being forced fed and then changing his mind and eating himself. but I'm too new to upload them to share.
    Thank you so much to E-V-E-R-Y-O-N-E for the advice, the support and the "you can do it" attitude. This jellyfish has gotten a little spine in her and I have you all to thank for it.
    I am sure this will not be my last post...I'm only 4 weeks into this new world...thank you from the bottom of my heart...
     
  10. Hope + (((Baby)))GA

    Hope + (((Baby)))GA Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Clindamycin in capsule form has to be chased down after pilling by either water or food. You cannot dry pill this drug......it can burn the esophagus. Actually, no pill should be given without a water or food chaser. Sending "get well" wishes for Skye.
     
  11. Suzanne&Grey

    Suzanne&Grey Member

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    Nov 30, 2011
    Everyone has given great advice, so I'll add just a couple of things. Will your kitty eat chicken? Pick up some thighs or breast and cook, cool, then shred and add to food. Also, parmesan! Sprinkle that on food. Maybe lightly warming the food in the microwave to enhance the smell for your kitty. As far as assisted feeding, use a blender, a food processor, anything to thin the food so you're not having to argue with the syringe. I've used a small spoon and coaxed eating that way too.

    Best of luck, and I'm sorry your kitty doesn't feel well.

    Suzanne
     
  12. popposgrl

    popposgrl Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2012
    Thanks, I will try those tips, right now I have a call into the vet, we've had Skye home for the weekend and he is doing nothing but sleeping. I wake him up to force feed him, have to force water down his throat because I saw the size of the needle they want me to hydrate with...but he is still belly crawling away from food, treats, me. His eyes are killing me. I know I have to do this, but now my husband is saying that maybe Skye just wants to die and my doubts are setting in. He is a rescue so we can only assume he's 12-15 yrs old. We've had him 11 yrs...help please...
     
  13. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    I would get him back to the vet and see where his blood sugar levels are, unless you can do this at home. It is possible he is too low or too high - both very dangerous. It is possible that the antibiotics are not working well for him and another one should be tried. The vet can insert a feeding tube and you can do this at home. We would also encourage you to hometest (we can teach you) so you can see how the insulin is working.

    I am so sorry this is happening to you and your sweet boy. Sometimes there can be quick improvement once you figure out what is wrong.
     
  14. popposgrl

    popposgrl Member

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    Apr 27, 2012
    I have a call in, but it's been over an hour, I'm calling again. He went out on the porch after I posted this morning. He's used to being an indoor, outdoor(we live in country on 10 acres) but since his diagnosis, he's housebound and I'm wondering if he isn't depressed...no more freedom. Up side is, my squirrels are loving it! ;p He used to come running and waking me up to be fed, now I'm running around looking to see where he has hidden. My other cats are not being a comfort to Skye. I guess with all the "extra" attention he is getting to keep him hydrated, fed, and medicated, they are ignoring us to the extreme. Thanks for being there and answering my pleas...funny thing is, I was a nurse before I retired, you would think needles, force feedings, and medicating would be right up my alley...but it's not, I cannot handle hurting my little man, and I'm sorry, but needles hurt, whether person or animal...it's a foreign object being thrust into your body...it hurts.
     
  15. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Since you are a nurse, would you consider trying hometesting? It may hurt for a second (although the thought is that cat's ears are much less sensitive than people's fingers), but is much less painful than the results of high/low blood sugar. We give a low carb snack each time we poke and most cats meet their owners at the testing spot at the appropriate time.

    Here's a shopping list if you are interested. Knowing blood sugar levels in cats can make a life/death difference, just like it can in humans.

    A human glucometer. Any one that sips and takes a tiny sample is fine. The meters are often free at drug stores; it’s the strips that are expensive. You can, however, buy them on ebay at less than half the price of stores. Lots of people here also like the ReliOn from Walmart. It is an inexpensive meter and its strips are the cheapest around. Try the meter out on yourself or someone else before you try it on your cat. You want to be familiar with it before you poke the cat.

    Lancets and a lancet device. Usually, until the ears “learn” to bleed, a 26-28 gauge is good. Any brand will work as long as the lancets match your device.

    Ketone strips. (Ketostix) Just like human diabetics use. You will sometimes need to test urine if the numbers are high.

    Rice sack. Make this out of thinnish sock, filled with raw rice or oatmeal and then knotted. You heat this in the microwave until very warm but not hot. Then heat the ears before poking.

    Also nice to have. Flashlight: so you can look at the ears and find the little capillaries that come off the vein running down the ear. Vaseline: Put a tiny smear where you want to poke. It will help the blood bead up.

    And some lo carb treats to give your kitty, successful test or not Lo carb treats

    We've taught hundreds of people how to do it over the internet. We would be glad to teach you. Once you see how the insulin is working (or not working) you can safely adjust the dose. The cat feels much better and you feel confident that you know what is going on.
     
  16. You said
    Is that a bag of lactated ringers and tubes and the needle for sub-q fluids? If so, I understand your aversion. Insulin needles are teenie tiny when you look at that contraption! It's probably an 18g needle, fondly referred to here as "a harpoon". :smile: If they gave you 18g, you can get 22g thin walled needles to replace that bigger one.
    I had to give Bob between 30 and 40 100ml "treatments" while I was dancing this dance. I hated doing it. I don't know how bad it "hurt", but when I would break through the skin with it (and I was using the 18g one), I just remember thinking "ow, that has GOT to hurt". But really, what I found wasn't so much that he reacted to the stick. Rather, he seemed to hate waiting for how long it took to get 100ml into him. He only cried one or two times, and that's because I screwed up and probably hit flesh instead of just going under the skin. Other than those couple of times, he didn't fuss until about half way through the drip, and more because he wanted to move than because it seem to hurt him at all. He didn't, however, appreciate it when he'd walk off and I would tell him he looked like a camel! :D

    Also, the lancets for testing blood? They don't hurt. Try one on your finger tip (that's what it took for me to be convinced). His ears have less nerve endings than your fingertips too.

    And the insulin syringe needles are as small, or smaller, than the lancets.

    Carl
     
  17. popposgrl

    popposgrl Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2012
    Hi
    I have ordered some low carb treats online, thank you Sue for the listing!!;) I am getting a monitor and have already bought the urine sticks, just waiting for Skye to come out and use the "Little boy' box"...I'm 93 minutes from having to force feed him again. I've done the hydrating thingy twice. I find myself starting to stress within a 2 hour time frame of feeding Skye. He is still sleeping alot, an awful lot...that is my main worry.
    Carl, the bag says 9% sodium chloride, Skye does not like getting it. The "HARPOON" does not glide in as easy as I am used to using. I was medically retired as a nurse 34 years ago, so I am basically learning it all over again... and remember WHY I enjoyed working the OR, patients were asleep, didn't hurt to jab them.
    All the info on here is great, but the support from everyone is what is helping me pull through. There are times when I'm bawling my head off because I know I have to force feed my little man and he gives me those "Why are you doing this to me?" looks.augh!! I get on here and calm down before the DANCE starts!! Thanks to all...
     
  18. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
  19. popposgrl

    popposgrl Member

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    Apr 27, 2012
    Okay Sue...point taken...after I bawled my head off (sooo emotional these days) I got a good chuckle...I even pasted and copied it for my husband to read and he chuckled and said "maybe this is the place for you", meaning support wise.
    I am pureeing Skye's food, he actually ate it by himself last night. Didn't have to force feed at all. I am hoping the same holds true today. Got the urine sticks to test him. Do I test BEFORE I feed him? AFTER I feed him? Before the shot obviously...right????
    I believe the hydro makes him feel better, even if I have to harpoon him for it, although I have to wait for my son to hold Skye so I can hold the needle still...does anyone have any "dance moves" to make this a one-woman procedure instead of a two man??
    Sue, thanks so much for the chuckle, I needed the reality check!!
    ~Patti
     
  20. popposgrl

    popposgrl Member

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    Apr 27, 2012
    YEA!!!!!! Skye ate TWO cans of Fancy Feast WITHOUT force feeding!!! I pureed 2 cans this am thinking that I might be starving the kid in my ignorance. He used to eat 8 ozs of canned food in the am and the pm, and here lately I've only been using one can of Fancy Feast and then pureeing it lost some more in the process!! He has lost 4 lbs since April 4th and only weighs in at 9.6 lbs. He has always been between 12-14 lbs as he is a very tall, big cat(doc thinks he might have Maine Coon in him somewhere)...but for him to weigh only 9 lbs he is just a bag of bones. ANYHOO, I figured since I'm always on here panicking, I'd post a positive thing!!!
    THANKS TO ALL!!!!!
     
  21. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Glad his appetite is better! Maybe it was the texture of the food he didn't like.....

    I don't think it matters when you use the urine strips. They are going to give you info about his body hours before. You can determine what his renal threshold is, but only within wide parameters. For example, it might indicate his level is within a lower range, but it won't tell you if he is at a dangerously low number. Ditto for a high range.

    We prefer the blood glucose meter testing for daily info. You can find out what his blood glucose level is before you give the shot and know that the amount you are about to give will be safe. And testing mid cycle shows you how the insulin is working.

    I understand it is one step at a time, but we will continue to nag about bg testing :D because we know how important it is.
     
  22. popposgrl

    popposgrl Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2012
    Hey
    Well, I'm waiting for a meter from Rebecca, she said she could send one. I need to also let her know that I have a box of ReliOn Confirm/Micro 20 count test strips for blood glucose testing. I went to buy the urine strips and the kid behind the pharmacy counter gave my son these strips instead of the urine strips. I must say, Wal-Mart was very good about it when I called to complain about the mix up and the fact that federal law forbids them exchanging or refunding after these items are bought. They GAVE my husband the test strips that we needed AND refunded the difference in price, PLUS told him to keep the wrong ones. So, I figure someone can use them, just need to get them to Rebecca.
    Skylar is still sleeping a lot. BUT I am being good and not going in and waking him up to make sure he's still breathing...I haven't checked in a whole 185 minutes....his "roommates" are keeping me busy catering to them...
    I guess I'll try to get in touch with Rebecca. I just hate bothering someone who is taking on such a huge project as FDMB...but Skye needs to have his blood tested regularly.
    NOW when you say that you test and then "adjust" the dosage of insulin...how do you know what to adjust it to? Sue, thanks so VERY much for hanging in there with me...I've gone from "mommy on the edge" to "ALMOST leaving him alone Mom"!! ;p
    ~Patti
     
  23. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    BUT I am being good and not going in and waking him up to make sure he's still breathing...I haven't checked in a whole 185 minutes....his "roommates" are keeping me busy catering to them...

    :lol: Good for you. You are doing great. It is a steep learning curve at first, but you will soon be confident and telling newbies about your early experiences.

    I guess I'll try to get in touch with Rebecca. I just hate bothering someone who is taking on such a huge project as FDMB...but Skye needs to have his blood tested regularly.

    How long has it been? Depending on where you are from Rebecca (Arizona) it could take a few days. If you are anxious, you can buy the ReliOn from Walmart with strips for $20 or so, just to get started. Then use the meter from Rebecca as a back up meter (always good to have)

    NOW when you say that you test and then "adjust" the dosage of insulin...

    Did I link that huge PZi document? That will give you some good information. In general, we start low and go slow. (Why we are a bit alarmed at the large dose...) We figure it is easy to adjust the dose upwards; you can't ge the insulin out of the cat once it is given. So we will probably suggest you restart at one unit twice daily, testing before each shot to make sure it is safe to shoot. (We advise new diabetics not to shoot under 200. If you get a number under 200, we suggest waiting-without feeding- and test again to see if it has risen into a safer range.) As for what dose to give at what number, your best bet is to post on the PZI forum also. http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewforum.php?f=24 Everyone there has experience with your insulin and can help with dosing questions until you get the hang of it. Once you are testing regularly and have some numbers in the middle of the cycle, you can see if the insulin is taking him too low or if he is still high or flat and adjust accordingly.

    Sounds complicated at first, but you will be surprised how fast you become very good at it. And we will help!
     
  24. sophie

    sophie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2012
    Hi Patti,

    Welcome! Just letting you know that many of us have back up glucometers (and batteries - we're all in one sense or another "mommies and daddies on the edge" nailbite_smile nailbite_smile. You should see me shaking my sweet Pudge awake as he tends to sleep for 2 -3 hours at a time, and deeply! :oops: ) and use ReliOn Confirm or Micros, so if you wish to do so, you might just want to keep the strips you have. Walmart's ReliOn strips are some of the least expensive available and the expense lies in the strips, not the meter. The ReliOn meter would probably cost about $10. They are considered reliable.

    Best wishes for your and Skye's health, Sophie
    p.s. Don't know how I missed Sue's post! My Pudge was also on ProZinc, but he's off insulin now, just a while longer before I make it official!!!
     
  25. popposgrl

    popposgrl Member

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    Apr 27, 2012
    You can get CATS off insulin??????? HOW??? That is ALL the monitors cost? I looked online and they were out of my price range...I'll head there now to get one...thank you!!!
    Skye sleeps 8-10 hours at a time, I have to wake him up to feed him. He used to wake me up to be fed....is that normal?? the sleep, not waking me up...I would love for him to wake me up now!!!
    Off to Wal-Mart!!
     
  26. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Cats can go into remission. Not every cat, but the protocol here has been successful for lots of them

    I will be glad when you get your meter. If he is getting too much insulin, he might explain his lethargy. Once you get a number, you'll know who he is doing.
     
  27. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Both too much and too little insulin can result in somnolence.

    In addition to the glucometer, read the link in my signature block about secondary monitoring tools - testing for ketones is very important starting off, as too little insulin results in fat breakdown for calories and fat breakdown produces ketones. This can lead to diabetic ketoacidosis, a very expensive and potentially fatal complication of diabetes. Does his breath smell like nail polish (acetone)? That is a classic sign of high ketones.
     
  28. Suzanne&Grey

    Suzanne&Grey Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2011
    Pureeing the food might have done two things: warm it up, and/or by slicing through the bits it opened up the fragrance. Either way, glad to hear you're getting food in him!
     
  29. popposgrl

    popposgrl Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2012
    I have the monitor, it's 60 points less than my vets, so I need to add each time. My question is this, yesterday at the vets they said that he was hydrated fine, he was stressed from becoming an indoor cat only, mom forcing him to eat(BECAUSE he needs to for insulin shot?) the stress of hydrating him, and that we should let him calm down...let him eat WHEN he wants,...
    okay? what happened? NOW, I'm the bad guy cause I'm been following DOCTOR's orders!!! MAKE sure he eats BEFORE his shot, MAKE sure you hydrate him, KEEP him inside, ONLY feed every 12 hours...they did say that this was an EXCELLENT source for information and a great support system...so KUDOS TO THE MEMBERS HERE!!!!
    I am ready to let Skye go back outside, he always came in to eat anyway...and brought me his kills(which I accepted with praise and then got rid of) but he only did that when I ran out of wet food. More or less, "See, I can fend for both of us!" attitude...Sooo, deep breath and crawl to FDMB and see what I need to do...also, I am taking my first glucose reading this am...wish me luck, should I wear loong sleeves???? :)
     
  30. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    You don't need to add to your test values - your vet needs to learn what human glucometer values look like in a cat!

    The glucometer is to give you an idea of whether it is safe to give insulin, or with good data collection, how to safely adjust the insulin doseage. The numbers we use are based on human glucometers - ie "no shoot" below 200 ... on a human glucometer. It may be a hypo if less than 40 ... on a human glucometer. Don't add anything - just report the numbers you get, and note if it is a human or pet specific glucometer.

    Also, its OK to let him graze throughout the 1st 10 hours between shots, preferably with more food towards the first half when the insulin is dropping the glucose. Ideally, you want the last 2 hours before a shot without food so you can get a better idea of how he's doing. Small frequent meals are usually better for a diabetic of any species.
     
  31. Suzanne&Grey

    Suzanne&Grey Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2011
    Just a thought, my vet believed "white coat syndrome" applied to cats as well. Your cat may have a higher BG reading due to sympathetic response.
     
  32. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Yes, the breathing part of this dance is important. As said, don't worry about adding to your readings. Just deal with your meter.

    It's test, shoot and feed amps and pmps. We want a reading not influenced by food. Lots of us shoot while their heads are deep into breakfast or dinner. The rest of the day, small frequent snacks of low carb food work well for many cats - helps the insulin work, slows any lower numbers. If you want to do that and don't want to feed more, divide the total up into several meals. You just want to pull up the food 2 hours before you plan to test so the test is not food influenced.

    Good luck with your first poke. It isn't always successful the first time. We poked poor Oliver for an entire weekend before we got a drop. Our problem was a tiny lancet and not heating the ear long enough. If you have trouble, three tries and then a treat for you both. Then come back on and we will give you more tips.

    And start a new thread after your poke. This one is getting long.
     
  33. popposgrl

    popposgrl Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2012
    Suzzanne...what is BG, blood glucose, never mind, my mind is off taking a needed rest. Skye was NOT a happy camper with this am's BG test...I remembered what Carl said about using a cotton swab to stop myself from being pricked. He did not want his treats for being a semi understanding cat...I am REALLY on the ta-ta list as far as he is concerned. He hides and sleeps all day I wake him up for meals and then he goes back to sleep...I've tried to stay out of his hiding area when I do all the testing so he knows that his room is safe. But mom hauls him out of there anyhoo...
    How often do you need to test? We are in week 5 and he is still all over the charts. Also does anyone know what Somgoyi rebound is and what tests are needed? My vet had no idea what I was asking about...
    Thank you!!!
    ~Patti
     
  34. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Once we get some at home numbers, you will be able to see truer patterns during the cycles. Vet numbers are always suspect because of the stress factor.

    The next step might be a kitty burrito. We had to use this on Oliver at first; once he got used to it, we quit. We put a towel down next to the arm of the couch, plopped him on top and wrapped him until only his head showed. (treats now might be nice the first few times). I could press him lightly into the arm so he couldn't get away until the poke was done.

    One of the issues at first can be your confidence. You have to convince yourself that he is not being hurt. You are doing this to save his life and he will have to get used to it (They do - they really do!) Poke with confidence, one firm, hard poke. Then lots of praise and treats.

    http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Somogyi_rebound This article explains rebound. Bouncing is sort of a milder form of rebound. Their body "sees" a lower number than they have seen and reacts with a glucose dump. Rebound can be from a really low number to a really high one or just a pattern of higher numbers when the lower numbers aren't detected. We think rebound or bounce may also be a cycle with generally higher flatter numbers also. Not scientific, just patterns we often see. Rebound is suspected based on everyday cycle numbers, no special test.

    Time to start a new thread so you can get testing help, not eating help. :D
     
  35. popposgrl

    popposgrl Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2012
    YES MA'AM!
     
  36. Suzanne&Grey

    Suzanne&Grey Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2011
    I'm no help with insulin, Grey was diet controlled until the last few days of her life. Testing...we all know how you feel. I cried a lot because of not being able to get enough blood, etc. Reading all the tips here got me to where I could just walk up, test, scratch her head and walk away. Definately search for posts on testing tips.
     

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