Chuck's bouncy journey, part 10.

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/chucks-bouncy-journey-part-9.171132/page-2

Negative for ketones!

 

Chuck only ate 3.1 oz out if the 4.5oz I gave him. Should I reduce his dose?
+8 350
AMPS: 348 (+11)

Was going to give 5.6 units but now I'm not sure!

 

I got him to eat a little more by putting his lick'em treat on it. I think I'll give the full 5.6 units and monitor.

 

He ate 4oz out of the 4.5 I gave him which included .2oz pumpkin. He had a few bites of YA. 1T YA left out for him.
1oz pate at +2.5 and 1T YA at +5.5.

I think maybe the food was too old. It was in the fridge for a few days and he's been spoiled with a fresh can every meal lately. Hopefully the 5.6 units is enough. I figured he was over the bounce so I cut it back a bit. I want to try free feeding (monitored) YA for his pm cycle if he's not too high by then. I figured I'd test and put the bowl out an hour early. Then test after two hours to see where he's at then give insulin. I might completely chicken out or change my mind by then so we will see...

 

Poor you, Steph ... so many variables to juggle! Tell Chuck I said to stop the nonsense NOW!!

 

Sorry Steph! I think it was like...2AM when you posted this where I am lol. I swear, we have so many bouncy kitties these days!

 

He's eating very slow again today. PMPS was "HI" at +11

 

Sore teeth?

 

I'm starting to wonder... I noticed yesterday when he ate some YA that he didn't chew it. His breath is awful but it has been for years. Vet never said they were infected before... Just said some cats just have smelly breath. I think I'll call the vet in the morning. Maybe we can get bloodwork repeated and get his teeth checked. I'm hoping the addition of YA hasn't caused some pancreas issues.
It's in the back of my mind that maybe he's nott feeling as starving now because he's getting dense calories in the YA that he snacks on. I really hope this is the reason. He ate about 3oz again then went back for more. I gave him 6 units anyways since he was HI. I'm going to monitor hourly.

 

Could be the YA but might be worth having vet check his mouth along with bloodwork. Maybe you can catch a developing problem before it gets out of hand.

 

+1 568
+2.5 346
2tsp YA
+4 279
+5 344
+6 574/536!!!!! What in the ****?!
I gave him 1 unit. **DO NOT COPY MY DOSING** My vet approves microdoseing for Chuck! Do NOT do this without experience and vet consultation.

I have no idea what he got into. Had to have been dog food! The YA hasn't done this before so I don't think it's the YA. Trying to get a ketone test. I'm not a happy camper!

 

Breathe, Steph, breathe ...

 

I get so upset... At myself. I do tell him when he gets into stuff, "you're eating yourself to death! Please stop!?!" I am shocked at his numbers. I was afraid he would be to low on the 6 units. Hah. Joke is on me I guess. I'm worried he's sick too. I get a bit obsessive over it. I just want to do the best I can... And I fail too often.

 

Has his eating been sub par all day? What about activity level, demeanor, etc.? If he's brewing an infection somewhere (mouth? UTI?) his numbers will be wonky. Will you be making an appointment with the vet tomorrow?

 

I am calling the vet in the morning. He's been sleepy today and yesterday. The last 3 meals he has eaten around 3oz then finished the other 1-1.5 oz within 2 hours. He wasn't up and yelling at us for food like he usually starts around +9/+10... Tonight he was on the table begging for food at +3/+4. Showed some interest earlier in Kitty's food but usually if I leave the room he's plotting on how to get to the the quickest and scaring kitty off. Tonight he was lying in his chair just looking over at it. Didn't even try to get up to go get it.
He is eating "enough" but I'm worried about the sudden change. YA says within a few days they eat less because their body realizes they are getting enough of what they need in smaller amounts.
I'm thinking about holding off on any YA until after the vet.
Kitty is also eating less but he's acting normal.
+7/+1 554
Testing again in a few minutes

 

I also have ten parameter urine test strips I can try to see what his looks like. They're human strips so I'm not sure how it compares.
+8/+2 455

 

This is what I have...

 

He just showed interest in some baby food mixed with water. Two pea sized drops of baby food and 16 ml water. He probably drank 10-12 ml of it. Hoping to get a urine sample.

 

Sorry, Steph, I don't know how to interpret these.

 

I figured I'll do one and see what it says I can take the results with me to the vet. Maybe it can be a stating point. I really hope I'm wrong about him being sick.

 

Crossing fingers for you and Chuck.

 

+9/+3 505

 

I've missed two urine samples! I put plastic wrap on the litter that little turd went in the other corner! Then he dug around the second time and moved it and peed under it.
He has moved to the table and is yelling for his breakfast. He is chasing me into the kitchen too. So that is a bit relieving.
Testing at +11/5 then +12/6. Just wondering if you think I should give his usual dose if he's going up? If he's in 500s the normal dose would be 5.8 units.

 

+11/5: 376
Wow. Looks like it will be a reduced dose for AM cycle. Might stall an hour.

 

+12/6: 438
Stalling for 30 minutes. He's acting normal and yelling at me to feed him.

 

AMPS +12.75/6.75: 444
Fed 4.2oz plus .2oz pumpkin
Ate slower than usual but faster than yesterday.
Giving skinny 5.4 units @+13/7. Will monitor closely.

 

+1(+8): HI
+2(+9): 480

 

Suppose to get a storm today. I'm not sure if I'll be able to get him in at the vet today. Might be Tuesday or Wednesday.
They might be willing to draw blood quick and visit with the vet once the roads are safe to travel since he's diabetic.

 

I know you're panicked, but it does sound like he's feeling a bit better. Could just be a little off...some days my kitties won't even look at breakfast for a few hours (I think they're actually too tired sometimes lol). Let us know how things go...

 

Can't remember exactly, but I think the leukocyte test isn't reliable but the others are. If you post in Health and tag Larry and Kitties, he will probably know for sure.

 

OMG Steph! He's thwarting you at every turn! I'm glad he seems to be feeling better. I don't see your posts until AM my time (EST) so can't be of much help ...

 

So this morning and this afternoon he's back to his usual self! He pestered me all day for more food. Bossing Kitty around. He hasn't had YA for about 24 hours now. I don't know if it was the YA or maybe just an off day for him. I didn't get to talk to the vet today but I can call tomorrow early to see if I can catch her before she gets busy.
+3 399
+4 305
+7 245
+11.75: PMPS: 251 retest was 301
Fed 4oz super super- he DEVOURED it in less than 5 minutes!
Gave 5.6 units.
+1 415
+2 334
+3 261 .2oz baby food plus .5oz water snack

 

I really wanted to try the "only YA food" tonight since his BG was so good but since he was feeling off yesterday I figured I'd wait.

 

Glad he's feeling better!!!

 

+4 173

 

Hurray for Chuck back to being Satan!

 

I'm so glad I was wrong! BUT I will keep a close eye on him and if he gets feeling yucky again I'll get him in for tests. He hasn't had bloodwork done since August 2016 so it couldn't hurt to get it done.

 

+6 191

 

+8 192
+10 495!!
Probably a bounce. *Sigh*

 

I just started following you because I was told that you have a lot of experience w ProZinc
Can I ask why you measure out Satan's food?

 

We started to measure it because it was an easy way to make sure he was getting the same amount each feeding and it ruled out the possibility of one of us (me or DH) estimating the amount high or low and influencing his BG levels.
I also used the calorie calculator on this forum to determine how many calories he would need to maintain his weight or in his case how many he needed if I wanted him to get back to 12-13 pounds. (when he started prozinc he was only 9 pounds!) I divided the calories per can to get the calories per ounce and calculated how many ounces he needed to reach that amount of calories.
He's a very bouncy kitty and he is also very reactive to ANY food. Once we reach +6 he will increase quick from any food even if it's carb free. Just 4.5 oz of low carb pate will make him jump 300 points at least if he doesn't get any insulin.

 

AMPS (+11.25): "HI"
Fed 4oz chicken&tuna pate. .5oz pate snack scheduled at +3.
Gave 6 units.

 

So he is so high that the meter only said " High"
He does have very high numbers on his SS. If you look at ours and look at Nov 2015 , we had high numbers to and was suffering from neuropathy. his then vet had him at 5 units. But he was also eating Dry MD food then. The very day I switched him to can food, he started his short road to remission and his neuropathy started " reversing " ( it was completely gone less than three weeks after he went into remission )

Last week I started using a new vet, he couldn't believe that his old vet had skittles on 5 units . He said that's enough for a adult tiger! My old vet also hated me home testing and threw a fit when I took him off of the prescription food I was getting from them. They were just not supportive of the believes that we have here in this group. If I had continued to listen to her I know in my heart that skittles would have never went into remission and would still have neuropathy

 

Our first vet started him on 7 units twice a day no matter how much food he ate! That is how I ended up here. He was going too low and I had looked at this site before going on insulin and came back and joined the forum after getting a bad feeling about his dose.
Chuck was 560+ at the vet when diagnosed. He was running in the 350s after strictly wet food diet. But he was eating the wet DM and friskies.
I switched vets and she basically told me, "well what do you need me for besides the insulin?" Joking of course. She is a big fan of home testing and was very impressed with the spreadsheet. She is wonderful. Night and day difference in cost and knowledge.
He does have some neuropathy and arthritis. He has mild IBD too. Dx without a biopsy.

 

+1 595

 

+2 505

 

Isn't it great when you find a vet who supports you?

 

Sighing along with you, Steph. Keep on keeping on ...

 

+4 358
+5.75 281

PMPS (+12.25): 203 retest 196!

I'm trying the YA zero today. I put a full cup in the bowl and will measure it after he's done eating. I'm going to test BG at +1 and +2. Then give insulin.
Or do you think I should give a token dose of half a unit? Then test.

 

OMG on that PMPS!!! You're just on the edge for dosing ...not sure what to say. You could try a token dose to see what happens. What I'm doing with Teasel now if a PS is too low even for stalling is to feed him, wait 45 min, test and then dose a slightly reduced dose. It's worked twice so far. Maybe you try a version of that. ECID though!

 

He ate 4.69 ounces of food. I think that's two days worth of YA and now he's snacking again.
+1(from meal/PMPS) 399

Do I need to wait another hour for a shot? Or can I give him the shot now?

I'm thinking 3 units since he's almost 400 already.

 

12/10/16 AM cycle I gave a 4.6 on a 322 two hours after his meal and he got into blue. Maybe I should try 4? He seems to be responding better to the insulin now vs then, unless I'm just seeing a wishful thinking trend.

 

Try 4 u now. It's all experimentation because every day he presents you with new "challenges". He'll probably be more sensitive from the lower number.

 

I think there's more blue now on his SS.

 

When I do the feed/wait/shoot technique I try to visualize how the rising BG from the food will dovetail with the gradual onset of the insulin dose. I reduce the dose a bit - just learning how much at this point. I'd say that BG at 399 at +1 is sufficient even as the food effect wanes to counteract the slow buildup of insulin action. Make sense?

 

Just tested again... 477 after 20 minutes!
Think I'm giving 4.4... Think that's OK?

 

I think so. He's on his trampoline again - Mr. Quick Draw McGraw ...

 

OK just gave him 4.4 units and a pep talk about how that food is "zero carb" and he needs to get on board with being NORMAL. LOL and to quit eating so much! This is all that's left of the 1 cup!

 

That's your PM dose, right? I'm asking because it's not on the SS yet.

 

OMG! Little Mr. Piglet! What's the recommended daily allowance of YA again?!

 

Yes that's pm dose. I'll update SS now. For 10-13 pounds I they're supposed to eat 3 tablespoons (I think there's 16 tablespoons in a cup) when free fed and once they realize they don't have to binge eat.
I weighed the bowl with the food in it before he ate to see how many ounces he ate. Easier than dumping it and trying to measure that way.

 

I hope Chuck doesn't get bunged up from wolfing it all down - or the messy reverse.

 

+1 375

 

I think he might get some loose stool or diarrhea... Could be wrong but his belly was gurgling and I could hear it.

 

Looking back at the 12/10 pm and AM cycles he doubled his preshot numbers without insulin...
Kinda bummed to see he did the same with the ya zero but I'm sure when he doesn't eat 3 days worth he won't spike as much... If at all...

 

+2 408

 

+3.2 374

 

Hopefully when he calms down about the food you won't see the spiking!

 

He's surfing in the 350s... I was thinking about a .2 microdose. (DO NOT COPY MY DOSING)
I rather not have two doses to worry about so I might just see where he's going and we can feed and dose 2 hours early.
I'm going to pick up his food at midnight that way if we need to shoot early it's not a food number.

I emailed YA. They emailed me to see how he was doing on the food. I told him about the snacks and how he seemed to not feel well and perked up after 24 hours of no YA. Could be totally coincidental. I asked them about a measured amount for him to feed restricted for a few days to make sure he doesn't get really bad or sick from diarrhea.
Haven't heard back yet bc I just sent the email an hour or so ago.

 

I weighed the bowl when I put more in it.
It was 16.65 oz including the weight of the ceramic dish and now it's .79oz lighter after 3 hours. Kitty had a few bites too.

 

+5 365
+7 324
I put up the YA. He just smelled up my downstairs in the litter box. Will give a bit extra pumpkin in AM meal... If he'll eat!

 

+9 527 retest 538
I want to feed early but I don't think he's going to eat... Hasn't had anything since +5... Not really begging for breakfast yet.

Wondering if I should put the YA out again or try giving him an ounce or two of 9 lives so I can give him a shot without worrying about him dropping to low or fast?!
Oy. He's lying around like he doesn't feel good. Has diarrhea from way too much YA at once/a day.
Could offer him pumpkin then the YA.
Not sure what dose to give if I don't feed him wet food.
2hrs 20 minutes after huge ya meal he was 477. 4.4 got him surfing in mid 300s.
If he doesn't eat a lot of YA should I give the 4.4 again since he's 527/538? Or should it be more?
What did I get myself into?!

 

I also noticed my other cat has slept all evening too.
Idk if I like this YA zero yet...

 

So I decided to feed him .25 pumpkin with 0.1oz pate mixed so he would eat it. I put 1/8th of a cup YA in his dish after he ate the pumpkin.
He didn't eat any of the YA.
I tested him before the pumpkin and he was
AMPS: 501 (+10)
I gave him 4 units even though he didn't eat any YA. I left it out and he can eat it when he wants.

I figured 4.4 on an increasing 477 was OK so a 4 unit on 501 with not much food would be just like the pm cycle this evening.
I will monitor closely and have high carb food to give if he plummets.
I plan to restrict his YA to 1/4c a day for now until I hear from YA a customer support.
I'm very stressed over this situation and it's triggering my anxiety.

 

Just had a huge puke festival in the kitchen. Chuck puked up everything he had left in his belly. Which was a lot. No wonder he wasn't hungry.
Then he started begging for food. I offered him YA and he got up and walked away.
I just fed him 1.9oz pate with .2oz pumpkin since he puked the first bit up.
He's eating the pate but not really that fast. I limited the amount just in case he pukes again.
I'm putting the YA away. Idk what I'm going to do with it yet. I know the huge amount he ate earlier is probably to blame. We will have to try again another day.
I will probably give another unit of insulin to equal 5 units if he keeps this food down.

 

What a cluster this morning has been.
AMPS(+10) 501
Gave 4 units. Only ate pumpkin.
+.5 puked up all stomach contents
+1 556
Fed 1.9oz pate and .2oz pumpkin
Gave 1 unit.
2oz snack at +3.25/+2.25
He's following me around the house yelling for more food. Drinking a lot of water.
Playing with toys when I was playing with him and Kitty.

+2/+1: 515

 

Sounds like he really just wasn't feeling great from the YA! Glad he's acting better now. I don't know much about YA but you could ask on the main forum if anyone has experienced something like this?

 

What an ordeal, Steph. I recall the odd comment from members here about YA not agreeing with their kitty. In Chuck's case, it's hard to know if it's the YA itself or the fact that he wolfed enough to feed a feral colony. Maybe give it a chance again later by feeding only a few kibbles at a time as snacks.

I hope you're feeling a bit better ...

 

I heard back from YA president himself if all people...
He ate 3-4 days worth in one sitting! Well... That is my fault. I'm going to let his belly rest for a few days then start the YA as snacks. Then do restricted feedings with the YA.
One big thing that bothered me was he said
"Our food is timed released so do not worry about feeding before a shot, that is only necessary if you are feeding a diet with carbs or feeding a canned food. It is important to check his BG before each injection and if it is below 150 I would suggest you adjust his dose accordingly. I personally feel that there is little benefit to testing in between meals; it is stressful to the cat."

Hmmmm. I let him know that Chuck is on a higher dose and is bouncy so I'll continue testing and making sure he has something in his belly for shot time. And he isn't stressed by it. He's lying on the table right now with his meter between his legs hoping for a test and treat. Haha.
He also said this about the chicken raising his BG.
" BG also goes up on the chicken because it is high in protein and low in fat. Cats can still convert protein to BG so when protein is out of sync with fat the BG goes up. You need about 2 parts protein to 1 part fat for BG to remain in balance. Chicken meat is mostly protein."

I will update his SS then post his PMPS info. He's feeling better today. He even ventured outside and decided snow is NOT something he likes lol

 

In my house when I first switched to YA my little piglet Samoa did the scarf & barf right away and had really nasty stinky runny poop for several days. I ended up putting 1/4 cup in each dish (I have 1 per cat in different rooms) until Samoa stopped eating everything in sight. Within two weeks everyone had nice normal poop and the small 8# bag lasts me 3 weeks with 5 cats (Hermione does get Primal raw as her main meal 2x daily with her shots)!

I think Kris has a great idea about using it as a snack until his tummy gets used to the higher protein & fat content. I do know there are some folks who have had their cats continue to feel badly with diarrhea and vomiting Hopefully Chuck isn't one of those.

Pretty cool that that president of YA himself answered your question! But it sounds like he's pretty old school in his diabetes advice.

 

Obviously they want to back up their product if the big cheese himself contacted you. He's entitled to his own opinion on testing between shots. Yes, protein can be converted to glucose and cats, as carnivores, might be better at it than we are. I know nothing about the proper ratio of protein to fat. Sounds like they factored that into their recipe.

I hope you can use the YA at least as a snack for now and I'm glad Chuck is feeling better.

 

PMPS: 502
Fed 4 oz pate chicken flavor- he ate it all
Gave 5.8 units
1 oz snack at +3.
+1 HI
+2 449

I'll be out of the house until about +6 so I'm giving him the snack. He's also still telling me he's starving.
I'm ok with his opinion but don't agree with my cat. Some cats I'm sure are just fine with little testing. I'm a helicopter mom I guess is the term. haha I say a bit obsessive.
I have high hopes for the YA. Kitty-cow isn't very happy I took away the YA but he's even perkier and awake. He's looking out the window today vs yesterday he was sleeping in DH's recliner all evening except for the few times he got up to snack. He didn't overeat yesterday. Restricted feeding should be much easier. I have also decided to move kitty's food into DH's game room ("man cave") to keep Chuck from being tempted.

 

+6.3 287

 

I've seen worse from him!

 

Come on down, Chuck!

 

+8.75 309

 

Surfing so far... Shhh don't tell him that! LOL

 

+10.5 361

 

Looking good!

 

AMPS: 304 (+12)
Fed 4oz chicken flavor
Gave 5.7 units (fat 5.6)
1oz super supper snack at +3
He ate like normal this morning!
+1 552 thinking the preshot was a false lower reading...

 

Glad he's eating better again!

 

Data, Steph, data ...

 

+3 324
+5 233
+7 196

 

PMPS 429 (+12.5)
Fed 4 oz super supper
Gave 5.8 units
+3 1oz chicken & tuna pate snack

 

+2 339

 

+4 278

 

+6 391
He must have found something he thought was yummy! I just cleaned the house too so I'm not sure what he would have found.

 

Where there's Chuck's will, there's a way ... some tiny piece of kibble he's scooped out from under the edge of the stove or something.

 

I wouldn't be surprised he if swatted april for a piece of hers when she was eating! Brat. I gave him a micro .1u at +6 *Do NOT copy my dosing*

+8.25 437 So he's either surfing or still going up. My money is on going up... I won't be home tomorrow after +4.5 til after pmps at +2.5 or +3...
Hopefully he won't be over 600... that tiny .1 is like nothing for him but I didn't want to overdo it and cause a mess at amps. Just wanted him to slow down or surf...
It's our birthday tomorrow but I'm the only one getting cake! *mean mommy* He'll be 10 and I'll be 33... 2nd birthday without my mom and it's proving to be harder than the first. Last birthday we celebrated together was my 30th... she was in icu on my 31st and nonverbal. Guess it's best the last one we celebrated was a "big" one... bittersweet memories.