(Concerned) Owen OTJ since 6 says and numbers keep going down

It's been 6 days since I don't give Owen any insulin and his bg keeps going down...

I'm feeding him in the mornings before I go to work (around 8.30am), when I'm back from work (around 6pm) and at night around midnight. Two of theses meals are about 70 grams and the other one is smaller. Everytime, I make sure that he eats.

His food is a mix of a homemade pate (chicken chunks, minced meat, a little of liver and egg shells) which I cook when out of the fridge, with about 2 tablespoons of canned Whiskas.

I know he's eating less than before, when he had those high bg levels, but it's supposed to be normal, right? Because diabetics cats have a huge appetite. He actually has good appetite too, he begs for food, but when I give him the pate in the bowl, he just doesn't want it.

Since he went off insulin, Owen has been behaving quite rare towards his food. He doesn't want to eat from his bowl... I cleaned the bowl everytime he used it. I also tried different bowls, and different plates. I tried place them in different parts of the house, but I couldn't get him to eat out of it.

At the beggining I though that it was the food what he didn't want, but by chance I took the food with my own hand, and suddenly he got desperate to eat... Now he only eats the food if I give it to him with my hand. He also eats from the floor if something falls there. I really don't understand

Today I gave him a little bit (just a bit, I swear) of his old low (18%) carb dry food, and he did ate that from the bowl I gave him that because I'm not comfortable with these low numbers, they make me think that something is not right

So these low numbers are starting to worry me, because maybe it is to do with the food. Is his food too much low carb now that he's off insulin? Am I not feeding him enough?

 

Uh, by the way, he acts very normal, he doesn't seem weak nor anything strange, in fact he's much more active now, he plays more, runs through the apartment, scratches and groomes more often.

 

It can be totally normal for a cat to have a BG in the 40's.....my civvies occasionally test in the 30's!! (I have to hold myself back from grabbing the syrup!)

Cats can be weird....when China's being weird, she'll only eat if I sit there and spoon feed her.....if Owen hasn't been eating as much, that could also explain the lower numbers, but they're not something to worry about since he's not on insulin

 

I'm sure you'll get more experienced eyes on this, but those low numbers are great nondiabetic numbers when not giving insulin. Personally, I think it looks good. Can you try a different dish or maybe a plate. He might be associating the dish with not feeling well. Just a thought.

 

We've had lots of cats test in the 40's when on OTJ trials, and the odd one in the high 30's. We just don't want cats to go there when they are getting insulin because it leaves no room to go down. Owen has been off insulin long enough that the depot should be gone.

As for food, there are lots of tips for tempting a kitty to eat. With Neko, I find I need to keep a variety of food going. She gets bored of the same thing every meal.

 

Have you tried putting the food on a flat plate? Some cats don't like their whiskers to touch the edges of a bowl.

Sending you good appy vines. Eat, Owen!

 

Maybe he would eat from a flat plate if it were elevated.....
Maybe he doesn't want to lean over....

sounds like you've got some experimenting to do....

once kitties get a negative association with something, for whatever reason, it's hard to reverse....

 

Some kitties also like their food to be elevated - you might try putting the plate up on something higher.

As everyone else has said - these are great numbers. I'm happy to see he's dropped down further - that's where a cat off of insulin really should be. i'd caution against the dry food, though, because that has brought many, many cats out of remission. It looks like Owen may be able to become diet-controlled! That would be fantastic.

The info I gave you on remission on 8/29 also included a link to a study that showed that many cats remained unable to process glucose while they were in remission. They still need to have a low carb canned food or raw diet to hopefully, prevent them from coming out of remission.

Did we give you the directions on doing an OTJ trial? If not, here ya go. I'd call this day 6 of his trial. Go ahead and do the count in your subject line (thread title) every day so people can watch what's going on. It can be very encouraging for new members to see others on an OTJ trial.

Start the trial on the next green pre shot.

If he/she is green at your normal test times, no need to test further until the next "PS" time; just feed small meals and go about your day. If he/she is blue at your normal "PS", feed a small meal and test again after about 3 or 4 hours. If his/her number is lower 3-4 hours after a meal, then the pancreas is working!

Post every day so we can monitor your progress and see if any tweaks are needed. He/she may have a sporadic blue number. Don't panic but post before you decide whether to shoot so we can have a discussion.

After 14 days of no insulin, we have a party!!

Sometimes the trial doesn't work the first time and we have to give a little more support in the form of resuming insulin. It's not the end of the world if that happens; we just give him/her the support needed. Our goal is a strong remission and it's better to take our time to get that than to rush into remission just to have it fail later on.

Good luck with the trial!!!

Once he/she is through the trial successfully, you enter a new phase. Your cat is still diabetic but has now become diet-controlled. Continue feeding low carb food in the manner successful for your kitty. If you decide to change his/her feeding schedule, let your meter be your guide to the best times to feed. Avoid medications with sugar in them and steroid medications unless they are medically essential. Continue testing blood glucose weekly for the first month and then monthly forever. It's a good idea to weigh him/her monthly. Weight should remain stable. If he/she seems "off" or sick, or is showing signs of diabetes (excessive drinking, eating, urinating, weight loss), test his/her blood glucose right away. Keep the teeth and gums clean and healthy; dental issues can bring a cat out of remission. If you see rising blood glucose numbers, it's time for a visit to the vet!​

 

Thank you all for you advice and ideas.

I will try the elevated plate one

This morning Owen ate again from my hand, but then I put the food back on a flat plate (next to the couch this time) and he are from there

@julie & punkin (ga) thanks so much for the OTJ trial reminders, I'll follow all the steps

 

SO happy to see Owen doing so well. Doodles eats from my hand most days for at least 1/2 his meals Last night he would only eat from a spoon.

I believe this is Day 7 of Owen's OTJ Trial. You should start a new thread every day with the title "date/ Owen AMPS x OTJ Day x" so we can cheer him on. We like good news around here. Great job Ceci

 

@Doodles & Karen thanks! I will do that

But I wouldn't had been able to do this without the help and support from you and the people in this forum.

You did this great job too

 

Boots has taken lately to eating half his serving from his plate on the floor, then being a little brat and making us hold the plate up for him while he finishes it. If we're lucky, we can hold it for a second then put it back on the floor and he'll finish, but most of the time if we try that, he gives us a look like "I don't think so, servant, now continue holding my plate of noms"

So yeah, bottom line: cats are weird So experiment and see what works. I hope elevating his plate a bit does the trick!

 

That's the power of wet food!!!!!

I think that it would be very useful to have a sticky note dealing with the transition from dry to wet food when insulin treatment is already in progress, or at least to have a big Warning.

We have the SLGS protocol, without any requisite about food, and the TR protocol, with the requisite of feeding a high quality low carb canned or raw food diet. Unfortunately, this requisite isn't always respected, and we don't have anything to deal with such a transition in food.

After having personally been in this situation, I feel that it's really dangerous when advisers continue to stick to the TR protocol, and advise a dose reduction of only 0.25IU when just looking at the raw numbers.

Hopefully, in the case of @Owen & Ceci , very experienced members were available, with great advises and familiar to such transition in food, but in case none of these members are available, it could be catastrophic.