Confused when to give insulin

I'm very confused when to give insulin and when not too. Sam is on Prozinc 1 unit 2 x a day.
He tested 135 this morning (2/18) and I didn't give his shot but at 2pm Mountain Time he was at 291 and I eyeballed 1/2 unit (my syringe is 20 units).
He started taking insulin 2 days ago and I'm very confused, not sure if I'm ding anything right

 

Re: How often to feed a cat?

What insulin are you using? With the milder, longer lasting insulins like Lantus, Levemir and ProZinc we usually test the blood glucose levels, feed and shoot the insulin. We always shot while Oliver was eating and he never seemed to notice. If you are using a harsher insulin like Humulin, you want to feed and be sure he has eaten before you shoot.

Some people feed 2 meals daily at the shot times. Lots of us divide the amount we were planning to feed into several small meals during the day and night, hoping to support the pancreas. We freeze the canned food and leave it out to thaw or use an automatic feeder.

What kind of insulin? What dose are you starting with? We advocate feeding wet low carb food once you are testing at home.

 

Re: How often to feed a cat?

I changed my cat's diet to wet food and his insulin needs dropped immediately.

Regarding frequency, later I started feeding my cat six times a day and that changed his insulin needs again, like sue described, his pancreas seems to respond to frequent small meals and currently he is off insulin. Perhaps this will work for your cat.

But IMPORTANTLY, if you are already giving him insulin, then don't change his food till you have started home testing. If his insulin need drops, and you don't know it and give insulin, he could hypo which is dangerous.
http://gorbzilla.com/diet_tips.htm

Question to more experienced people: if melancia hasn't started with insulin yet, and she has the right food, and the cat has no ketones, she could try a day or two on several feeds a day of low carb wet food, right?

If you are in the US or Canada, you might find cat foods that you recognise on these lists
http://binkyspage.tripod.com/canfood.html
Look at the "carbs" column, (fourth from left). You are looking for under 7 % calories from Carbs, so a number under 7 in that column.

if you are Australian, look for Whiskas Loafstyle (must be loafstyle, not the others), or any NaturesGift, or FancyFeast Royale Roast Chicken. The brands are different in the different countries so only follow those names if you are Australian. If you are in the US or Canada, look at Binky's lists.

 

Re: How often to feed a cat?

I have and continue to free feed my cats. We started with dry food and learned about how bad it is to feed, so when I got everyone to eat canned food, I continued with the free feeding.

What I do, is add a lot of water to the canned food - I use one can of water to one can of food. Most people when they add water, they will add 1/2 - 1/3 can of water. (I just give a lot more).

Anyway, the added water, will help keep the food moist longer and also ensure that your cat(s) are getting enough in their bodies, without having to hover at the water bowl.

I typically put out fresh food twice a day. However, when Maui was on insulin, she could eat 2 1/2 cans of Fancy Feast at one time, so the amount of food to put out, really depends on the cat and the frequency of when to put again depends on the cat.

If you want an alternative to actually feeding meals or creating meal times, free feeding is a good way to go. And if you are using lantus, levimer or prozinc, free feeding will work well those insulins.

 

Re: How often to feed a cat?

If your kitty is recently diagnosed diabetic it is extremely important that he eats, whenever he wants. I am concerned because you say he barely eats. Newly diagnosed diabetic cats who aren't eating could develop a life-threatening condition called diabetic ketoacidosis. It can happen to cats who've been diabetic a long time too, but in the beginning stages they may have an underlying infection and if they aren't eating and not receiving insulin or even not enough insulin, that is a recipe for trouble.

You can purchase ketone test strips at any pharmacy. You can then test his urine at home. At this point, I think testing for ketones is just as important, if not more so, than testing blood glucose.

We can give you tips on foods he might eat better, how to collect urine and how to test BG. Please let us know more details, such as insulin type and food type so we can help you further.

 

Re: How often to feed a cat?

I just started giving him insulin today. he is taking ProZinc 1 unit 2 x a day. He is been eating nature's variety wet food but I'm looking into making his food myself using the recipe from catinfo.org but I know it will take me few days of a week to get all this figured out. I am not sure if it's a good idea to change him diet since I just started on the insulin today.
I would love additional tips for his diet since my vet was a bit inconsistent. I think i will feed him 3 x a day for now because he is eating like a bird. I will look into the ketone test tonight too!
I purchased Relion glucose meter. although my vet was very supportive to home testing he discouraged me from using human meters. He said cat's blood is different from human's and I won't get an accurate result. He talked me into getting a pet specific meter and he he will order it on Saturday but I was wondering if I should just cancel this order since it seems like everyone uses regular human glucose meter!!

Thank you so much for all your help I really appreciate it. My cat means the world to me!!

 

Re: How often to feed a cat?

ProZinc is a mild longlasting insulin which should work well, and one unit twice daily is a good starting dose.

Lots of people here use the ReliOn; many have taken it to their vet and compared readings on the same sample and it is close enough to work. (we base doses more on trends and patterns so a difference of 30-40 points even is not a problem.) Yes, the AlphaTrak is nice, but both the meter and strips are expensive. The other issue is that they are not available at your nearest drug store like human meters, when you suddenly need to increase testing and run out.

So, can we help with testing? You might get him used to it first. Pick a place where you plan to test. A blanket or towel or on the couch or bed. Take him there and play with his ears awhile and then give him a treat. Then add heating the ear. Then clicking the lancet and heating the ear. Each time with a treat. Practice on yourself with the meter so you are comfortable with how it works.

We all have tips that helped us. We needed to get his ear very warm and we needed lancets that made a big enough hole. (human diabetics usually use 30 gauge. You want a larger gauge like 25-28)

Here is a huge document with everything you wanted to know about ProZinc. Too big to read in one setting but lots of good info.

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=32799

 

Re: How often to feed a cat?

I used a Relion meter, so do a lot of people on the forum. Some do have a pet meter.

Good luck! I, too, also use the recipe to make my own food which my Sneakers loves... currently (it changes with her moods).

I have condensed the recipe into a one page format if you would like it to review. But reading the whole thing helps to get the reason you do the stuff (like scrambling the whites) is the best to understand it.

And Sneakers free feeds, kind of, through out the day. Morning she gets fed, currently around 3 oz, I leave one or two frozen cubes (the chicken recipe frozen into ice cube trays 1 cube=1 oz) out for her while I am at work, and then when I get home I'll feed another 2 oz, her shot is 2 hrs later and I feed one more oz, and bed time gets another oz.

And we do Prozinc as well .

Heather

 

Re: How often to feed a cat?

Hey, and Welcome!

Hershey was diagnosed Nov, 2011 and started on ProZinc in Jan. We feed Wellness canned <6% carbs and feed 4 times a day (shot times and +6). We have an automatic feeder, but I'm almost always here at feeding time. We started with the iPet glucometer because my husband wanted to go with a pet specific meter, but the strips about broke the bank! We recently switched to the Relion Confirm; you can see Hershey's SS to see how it compared for us.

You're off to a great start!

Take care -

Libby (and Hershey, too!)

 

Re: How often to feed a cat?

I add a lot of water (not quite that much) and it makes a stinky soup which they then flick about the place while they drink it... I've started putting a teatowel down as a table cloth because it gets pretty gruesome! Gah! Cats! I'm a big fan of adding water though, (1) they like it (2) water is good for cats and (3) because as you say, it will keep his food fresh once I've got an automatic pet feeder sorted out for the night feeds.

I'd love to free-feed but Akbah is a puker: he'd happily gobble down all the food I put out in one hit, and then puke it up about 5 minute later. So I dole it out for him.

PS I use a human meter, AccuChek. Avoid the ones called FreestyleLite, they test too low, like, 150 or so too low? Which means you could think your cat was alright when in fact it is not. I used a FreestyleLite for awhile and learnt that lesson the hard way. :-| I was VERY annoyed about that.

 

Re: How often to feed a cat?

Gosh I had typed a long reply but I don’t know where it went.

As far as home testing goes, I’m having a hard time finding the right spot on his year to get blood, when I finally got some I put it on the wrong spot of the strip. I also changed the gauge size from 30 to 26. I’ve been rubbing his years too :/
I wanted to wait on the insulin until I figured out how to test him but my vet said we needed to get him started on prozinc today but I’m a bit nervous. Since I just gave him 1 shot today should I not give his second one tonight until I’m able to test him or should I just give his 2nd shot tonight and keep trying to get a blood sample?

About the ketone test I have another cat too so how would I go about testing him?
Sue and Oliver thank you and I will read over the link you sent me.

Hmjohnston yes I would love the condensed recipe you have. Would it be possible to email it to nadjabs@yahoo.com please?

Thanks everyone your suggestions are greatly appreciated!

 

Re: How often to feed a cat?

I mentioned how to heat the ear in your other thread- rubbing it often isn't enough.

Here is a link showing the sweet spot:

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m267/chupie_2006/testingear/sweetspot.jpg

You can also get the drop onto your fingernail if you need to and test from there.

 

Re: How often to feed a cat?

Thanks sue and olvier!
I was able to test him but the result is 21 mg/dl which doesn't make sense to me I thought it would be much higer than that.

 

Re: How often to feed a cat?

Oh, I add water to Hershey's food, too, but only about 3 T, just enough to mash it good. He likes it that way. I've read that you should heat the food to room temperature, but he doesn't want to hear all of that - just wants it straight from the fridge!

Ketones - we started testing a few weeks ago...I guess it was about two since we've tested three times now...okay, DOUG has tested three times. ;-) We decided we'd test on Tuesday or Wednesday, cleaned his box and waited for him to go...and waited...and waited...and, you get the picture. So, Thursday evening Doug went out the back door (of course, Hershey was following to see where he was going) and he says when the cold air hit Hershey - he hit the box! I wish I could've video'd that moment when Doug came falling all over himself - muttering - trying to get a strip to catch him before he finished! (We have two cats, also.) It was much like the Bill Cosby routine where they're so excited that the newborn made a poo and call the grandparents, etc. :lol: So, that's how we do it. We try to catch him mid-stream, about once a week, and he doesn't even seem to notice.

 

Re: How often to feed a cat?

Congratulations on getting a test!

but that is a very low number.
Test again now, as he might be in danger of hypos. Don't panic, but read this
http://felinediabetes.com/hypo-emergency.htm

Test again, if you still get a low number, (1) give him some carbs (I use a bit of honey mixed with water and some wet catfood)
(2) make a new thread here, click on 911 at the top and say there is a hypo, you will get help quickly that way.
(3) Follow the isntructions on the sheet (link I gave) till his numbers are coming up and you think you are past the 'nadir' of the insulin.

how long ago did you shoot?

 

Re: How often to feed a cat?

Test again to make sure it is an accurate number. Sometimes if you don't have enough blood, it won't give you a good reading.

 

Re: How often to feed a cat?

He's not been eating, you commented, and you've put him on wet food, so maybe he didn't need much insulin.
If he really is that low, in the long run this might be a good sign that your cat might be able to be regulated with diet.
But in the short term hypos are dangerous.

Hope you are there, reading posts, and can retest. I wonder if it was a wrong reading?

 

Re: How often to feed a cat?

I'm having a hard time testing him again. I poked him a million times but the problem was getting enough blood on that little tiny hole of the test strip, he wasn't cooperating either. I gave him insulin this morning at 9am and need to give him another one in 1 hr.
Should I not give his second insulin jsut in case?
Maybe it was just a bad reading. man this is harder than what I thought it was going to be!

 

Re: How often to feed a cat?

I would think it was a bad reading. That number would be dangerously low, and very unusual for ProZinc 12 hours after the shot. He is acting normally, right?

I would skip the shot. You will get so you are able to consistently get blood, but it does take practice.

 

Re: How often to feed a cat?

yes his acting just fine. I gave him 2 pieces of treats so he is a little happier with me. Yes I will skip the shot tonight then and keep poking him until I get better with this thing. I'm finding it hard for the blood to drip into the hole beacuse of his fur. he is black too.
Today is my birthday and i wonder if I should go out tonight with hubs or if I should keep my eye on Sam even though he seems to be fine :/
Thanks everyone!

 

Re: How often to feed a cat?

ProZinc, I'm not familiar with, but I think probably you can go out, if you don't give another shot.

Testing is really hard at first, for lots of us. I had a horrible time till Akbah and I worked out our routine.
Have you rewarded all that poking with some kind of treat (a really good brushing, or a bit of meat/chicken... every cat has something they will forgive you for)

Regarding tests (when you have the fortitude for another go, maybe a bit later)... the things that helped me/us were:
1. long time spent warming the ear: 60 seconds, with the ear warmer on the ear and the cat being scratched on the other ear / stroked down the spine. I think this part of the test is kind of Akbah's almost favorite part. But for me, the warm ear just bled more. Lots more. I was surprised.
2. after a week or so of testing, the ears have more capillaries and they bleed easier. So it gets easier for a physical reason as well as for emotional ones.
3. Finding the sweet spots. Akbah's right ear bleeds better than his left, and I get blood anywhere north of that notch, even up around the tip of the ear can be good
4. Also I discovered that blood comes after a pause, rather than necessarily straight away. I run my finger along the ear towards the prick spot, and that helps for blood to come out.

 

Re: How often to feed a cat?

If he really is that low, he is already hypo and he should be given syrup or gravy to raise his blood sugar.

Can you keep trying on the blood tests to try to get another reading before you go out? I would not leave a kitty at 21 home alone.

The more you warm the ear, the more likely you are to get blood. Keep poking until you get something. To be sure to get some blood, you can take the tip off the lancet and poke the ear directly with the little needle, right at the vein. I wouldn't do this every time, but since it's kind of an emergency...

You can also test your own blood sugar to get used to the machine and see if the results make sense. Normal human BG is 65-99 mg/dL (fasting) and < 140 two hours after a meal.

Keep us posted!

Lori

 

Re: How often to feed a cat?

And for black ears, I use a torch held in my teeth. Apologies to my dentist. It means I can see what I'm doing, and I can see the blood when it comes.
PRobably I need to set up a lamp to shine on the testing couch, soon.
Some people put a bit of vaseline on the spot to keep blood from hiding in long fur, if your creature is of a fluffy variety.

 

Re: How often to feed a cat?

You can poke on the inside of his ear so it is easier to see.

I would feel fine about leaving if I was sure he wasn't that low. It isn't too likely, but I can't say for sure.

 

Re: How often to feed a cat?

thak you I will try before I leave just to make sure! I will keep you posted.

 

Re: How often to feed a cat?

Mmm and when Akbah was low, (the lowest he ever got was 34.2) he never showed any signs of hypo, except hunger. And a bit of sleepiness.
It would be great if you get another reading which is higher than 21.

 

Re: How often to feed a cat?

Calm down - it is difficult getting used to this whole new routine, but you WILL get it! Hershey is black, too (3 out of 3 cats we've had are black :smile: ) and sometimes I'm better at the poking than other times. But, try to stay calm - they know when we're getting stressed and it stresses them, too. When we first started, Doug had to do all of the testing and I would sit quietly with my eyes shut tight, wincing! So, I promise you - it DOES get better!

It does sound like the result was off, so keep breathing (I know, sometimes that's easier said than done!) and keep trying to get another reading. As Sue said, it would be unusual for a really low reading that far into a ProZinc cycle. Try to get another reading (to set your mind at ease), plan to skip the shot and (If you get a better reading) go out and enjoy an evening with your husband. Happy Birthday!

 

Re: How often to feed a cat?

I am just stopping by to say Hi & welcome.

All of FD is hard in the beginning. Once you get into a routine it becomes easier.....Promise!

Are you using a rice sock to heat the ear? I always heat Baxters ear first. It was hard in the beginning to get his little ear to bleed & I always felt so bad making him bleed. With time it became easier.

I want to invite you over to the ProZinc forum. If you have any questions about dosing or any other questions about ProZinc all of the ProZinc users will be able to help you.

Jenn & Baxter

 

Re: How often to feed a cat?

So I tried to poke myself as suggested so I get used to see the reading but I tried it 4 times and didn't get enough blood, I used 26g and also 30 g lancets/ My husband is starting to think I have no soul!!
I wonder if I really suck at it or if it's a lancet issue.. (relion) I will continue to practice and try again on Sam.
I appreciate the suggestions and will try them side of the year, torch, vaseline and all that

As usual I will keep you posted
Thanks!

 

Re: How often to feed a cat?

Relion lance pens don't work! If that's the only one you have you might have to try without the top. I'm sorry. It's easier to see what you're doing but easy to go too deep so be gentle. Hold it up close to the ear until ready then give a quick light poke.

I feed Racci 3x, once after each test, and she free feeds at night or for that matter, in between. She just switched to wet food & is not thrilled with it at all so I coax her to eat by bringing it to the test spot and making it special. She gets to eat it on the ottoman and drink out of a littlle glass desert dish and get told how yummy it is and how good she is and if its shot time I do it while she's eating usually. This works for her and might work for your furbaby too to get him eating again. Eating and drinking is very important for a c at on insulin. They do best usually with a lot of small meals.

One thing I find that I do when I don't get blood is not press hard enough from the back. Remember when you poke that you have to keep firm pressure with a folded couple of tissues or paper towel behind the ear. I use vaseline after warming and I get the ear really warm. Also, Racci has one ear that just won't bleed so try both ears.

Good Luck and Happy Birthday!

Melanie & Racci

 

Re: How often to feed a cat?

MommaofMuse was able to get hers to work with a different brand lancet. do you have any other lancets? I couldn't get mine to though. I'm surprised you got even one test done with that. Try and find a Freestyle Lite lance pen (not the meter). Their pens are really good but there's a problem with their strips.

Melanie & Racci

 

Re: How often to feed a cat?

Have you tried freehanding the lancet, without using the pen device at all? That's what worked for me; i could see exactly where the needle was going. Just hold the little lancet firmly between your thumb and index finger. The quicker you go, the less painful it is. I have never gotten the hang of using the pen, so I just always use the lancet by itself, and it works much better. Try it on yourself, on a fingertip; most likely you will get blood. You can also test on the paw pads.

In a situation where you get a low number and need to get blood, you can aim to nick the big vein on the ear. It will bleed a LOT, so make sure you have a cotton ball or paper towel handy to put pressure on it after you test as it can bruise easily, but when you are low, getting blood is more important as a hypo can go south very fast. If you get a big blob of blood, you may want to get a little on your fingernail and test from there as sometimes too much blood can cause a meter error. But too much blood is better than no blood in an emergency situation. I would not automatically assume that a 21 is a meter error; it's a critically low number if it is accurate, and if you see that again, you will want to be testing often.

 

Re: How often to feed a cat?

Thank you I will try to use the lancet without the pen. It sounds scary but I totally can see the point. I can't see where the lancet is going to poke him with the pen..!
Melanie and Racci will the freestyle lite strips work with the relion confirm meter? What problems did you have with the freestyle strips?

Sam ate all his food for the first time but someone metioned hunger being a bad sign...!

 

Re: How often to feed a cat?

No. Strips only work with the meter they go to. Freestyle strips are no good. They're lance pens are really good. Their lancets might work in the Relion Pen though.

Melanie & Racci


Edit:
didn't answer your other question. A lot of people had readings that were 100 points or so off from other meters with them so you don't want to use them.

 

Re: How often to feed a cat?

I started with a freestyle lite meter and that's the lancet i use, with the top off, poking free hand, it is good and useful
But I am grumpy with the meter itself, somethign about the strips means that it measures low, so when your cat is in the 400s it will say 250 or so, which means you don't worry when in fact you need to.
I now use an AccuChek for the strips and the meter, but poke with the FreestyleLite lancet. You could poke with any lancet, in fact you could poke with anything that works - as all you need is blood from your cat, which you then put onto your 'good' meter (relion, in your case?).

Is it not a strange world you find yourself in, looking for ways to get blood from your beloved cat? There was once a thread here with the subject line: (something like) the mysterious case of the bloodless ear.

 

Re: How often to feed a cat?

Sorry to run off. It was time for Racci's shot and test and tonight was her night for the bloodless ears! Poor girl, I am just not good at not having a pen top. Trying to use pens I'm not familiar with and that stink is horrible. I finally got some but felt so bad for her. I still have to bother her again for her miralax & special powder for her bottom.

Melancia, what I was thinking was using the pen without the top and freehanding it that way, not just the lancet. I don't know if that's what you understood but if it's easier to just use a lancet for you, that's fine too as long as you do it fast and don't scrape him. Just in and out. :smile:

BTW, it is a good sign that he's eating again. You definitely want him to eat when he's on insulin or he could overdose or get sick or get hypos. Even healthy cats should not go more than 2 days without eating anything. Their organs can start shutting down. It's important to coax them or even force them if need be after they don't eat for a while before the next shot. Offer their favorites-chicken, cheese, baby food, tuna, whatever they really like that doesn't have sugar or high carbs preferably.


Melanie & Racci

 

Re: How often to feed a cat?

I am very frustrated this morning, I finally got good blood bu using the pen but not with the top but the relion meter said it wasnt enough blood where there was blood. I tried 3 times!! I will buy AccuChek this morning. So I shouldn't give him any insulin until I am able to test him right? last time I gave him prozin was yestarday at 9am.
Well I am running to the drug store right now!!

 

Re: How often to feed a cat?

There isn't a good choice here. it isn't good for him to go without insulin, but shooting blind is dangerous too.

You can "milk" the ear when you get a drop that's too small. And remember, you can put it on your fingernail if you need it.

Sometimes it is just a matter of being too cautious. You want to poke with confidence. And poke again in the same spot.

You'll get it.

 

Re: How often to feed a cat?

I went to the farmacy and the AccuChek strips are so expensive!! just a bit cheaper than the alphatrak strips :/
Sue and Oliver I actually got a lot of blood this time by not using the lacent pen but error messages were appearing in the monitors e-7 and e-6. I wonder if there was too much bllod? gosh I can't win
I ended up not buying the AccuChek. I wonder if I get a pet insurance through metlife if they will cover it? I have a preventive care with banfield...
I think i will give him insule and keep trying to use this stupid relion meter :/

 

Re: How often to feed a cat?

Getting the blood is the biggest part of the battle. What do the directions say about those error messages?

If you decide to go with a brand name meter, you can buy the strips through eBay. (senior citizens sell their excess diabetic supplies). Just be sure the expiration date works for you.
And that the seller has a good reputation.

 

Re: How often to feed a cat?

It sounds like you may have a defective meter. I would suggest returning/exchanging the meter for another one - tell them it's not working properly - by the way, have you attempted to test it on yourself, just to be sure that it might be defective and not your technique?

Also, I recommend getting a bayer contour meter - it requires a tiny amount of blood and is very easy to use.

Try putting petroleum jelly on his ear and then poking - the blood will bead up on the jelly and you can easily sip it from there - this will prevent the blood soaking back into fur. And for dark/black ears - I suggest using a flashlight - it really does help to see what you are doing.

 

Re: How often to feed a cat?

thank you, the direction said that these codes coud be either not enough blood or too much blood.
I tried to test it on myself last night but I didn't get enough blood.
I will try to exchange the meter to another one, we'll see if walmart lets me because I tried to exhcange the lancets from 30 g to 26g and they didn't let me, the box wasn't even opened or anything!!
are the strips for the bayer brand affordable?

 

Re: How often to feed a cat?

They are more than relion. I don't know how much they actually cost. I'm sure you can find them online at a reasonable price.

The important thing for the immediate - is that you get a working meter and strips and start testing, so you can see what's going on. And then look for reasonably priced strips.

that's just my opinion

 

Re: How often to feed a cat?

thanks H & M. After doing some neglected homework I'll look into bayer or see if I can exchange mine.
Until I get this all figured out, hopefully today, should I give him insulin? I don't know what will happen if I don't give him any :?

 

Re: How often to feed a cat?

I get my accuchek strips on amazon or ebay--they're way cheaper than in the store.

 

Re: How often to feed a cat?

I buy my strips at Hocks.com. They're cheap. Also you can put cheap diabetes test strips in google and see what you get. I'm afraid of ebay. I've been screwed too many times there. I would give him his insulin even without the test. He needs it and it's only 1u. He hasn't had it for 24 hours.

Melanie & Racci

edit: as long as he is still eating!

 

Re: How often to feed a cat?

I would call Walmart and see if they will take it back & exchange. Tell them it's defective. If not ask for the supervisor there, then the phone # for corporate and talk to them. All they will do is replace it if you tell them it's for you. Then I would buy the Bayer Contour and strips. See who is cheapest on strips. I think it is Hocks. I know they weren't outrageous. See if you can find a freestyle lite pen lancet and get that (put it in google) or wait for me to do so because I need one too. ;-)

I would not keep skipping his insulin as long as he is acting fine and eating well. I would make sure he has a meal before his insulin but after his test. He should have insulin as close to 12 hours apart as possible. Perhaps you can get the supply situation settled today or by tomorrow at the latest. I have shot Racci without testing but its a little different because I know Racci's likelihood of hypos is very small & I know when she is high and low. Just make sure he's feeling well when you shoot and has eaten.

Melanie & Racci

 

Re: How often to feed a cat?

Just an FYI...you can't return anything to do with blood testing to the store, even if it's unopened. They won't take the chance with bloodborne pathogens. It may even be a legal thing.

With the Relion...are you waiting until it beeps and tells you it's ready to test before getting the blood on the strip? If you get the blood before it's ready, it will give an error. When the meter is ready for the blood, it will beep, and a picture of a drop appears on the screen. Another newbie kept getting error messages and this turned out to be the cause. i push the strip in before I pick up the cat, so it's ready by the time I have a sample. When you first turn it on, it will give the last reading, then the code from the test strips, then it tells you it's ready...it takes a few seconds. I don't think any brand takes a smaller sample. I got a test this morning on a drop the size of a pinhead.

I find if, immediately after you poke the ear, you take the edges of the hole and pull apart gently and then squeeze back together, it makes the blood flow a bit easier. Also, try using the pads of the paws to test; many people have better luck there, and there are plenty to rotate between so the feeties don't get sore.

 

Re: How often to feed a cat?

Hi Melancia,

I bought a Bayer Contour meter ($20.99) and strips ($67.99 for 50) at Rite Aid (California) just a few days ago. Expensive... would never do this if I were not about run out of ReliOn strips! This will now become my back up meter. Delivery of my relion strips was delayed...be aware of that possibility when shopping online. I'm now a satisfied possessor of some 250 relion trips! Make sure you check expiration dates of strips you plan to purchase online and even in a store.
Best wishes,
Sophie

 

Re: How often to feed a cat?

That strip price is a ripoff! I paid 24.50 at Hocks.com http://www.hocks.com/diabetic-supplies/blood-glucose-test-strips.html

Edit: I found the Freestyle lancing pen on Amazon for 6.99 with 100 lancets from American Diabetes, free shipping.

Melanie & Racci

 

Re: How often to feed a cat?

I recommend you keep testing on yourself until you get the hang of it. Make sure you read all the instructions. There's usually a correct order on when to insert the strip into the machine, wait for it to be ready, then add blood. Make sure you have a big bead of blood first then hold the strip to it. The blood needs to go on there all in one go. Is it a sipping type strip or a pad strip that the blood goes on? Sipping types suck the blood up the middle and are much easier for cats as they require way less blood. If it's a pad, it's easy enough to do with a human finger but I found it nearly impossible for Scout to aim it correctly and get enough blood on there.

HTH,
Lori

 

Re: How often to feed a cat?

Hi,

My Sasha has had diabetes for more than five years, and I was not good at home testing. Things still went very smoothly somehow until fairly recently. In recent times, after he has been diagnosed with chronic pancreatitis, I have been trying this week to learn to home-test. It can be difficult at first, from what many say, but then almost everyone says they get the hang of it. I am still working on it, and I've decided to ask a vet tech who is a friend to help show this to me.

If you are questioning what you should do today, there are a few crucial things -- your kitty needs to not skip eating and you don't want to go without giving insulin if it is needed. Can you call your vet's office for guidance, and even -- as a backup -- run the kitty in for a quick blood glucose test? That would be preferable than taking any guesses.

My own advice would be to not try to learn everything at once. Home testing is very important, but if you are working with a good vet you can get some guidance on the insulin injections and on feeding your kitty regularly, and making sure you get into a regular routine...just while you get up to speed. I know this could be upsetting to some, but if you are making yourself crazy trying to home-test today, that isn't good either. it's more important that you get the rest of the routine down, perhaps use your vet as a backup in a pinch right now, and take it slow. Don't pressure yourself too much at once.

The ketone testing is important. I've just started to do this myself, and it's a good thing to do. I actually caught some urine as Sasha was doing this in the litter box. Here is a link with helpful info:
http://www.sugarpet.net/urine.html

Hang in there, and know you and your beloved feline will do very well!

Sending gentle hugs and positive vibes,
Susan

 

Re: How often to feed a cat?

Thank you. I gave his insulin this morning!
Maybe I'm not using my relion meter correctly then? Not all of my attempts I had the stripe inside but my last one I did. Maybe it didn't get there all at once either.
I will keep trying with my relion confirm today if it doesn't work after following your suggestions I will use the hocks website. I'm surprise how much cheaper the strips are comparing to the price I saw at walgreens this morning!!

Thanks Susan for the ketone test link I will definitely try that too. I'm just wondering how to get urine form him. He doesn't squat to pee so there is a lid on his box otherwise he would pee directly on the wall! I might try to take him outside because he might think he is going to the vet and pee before he gets in the car except last time I took him to the vet he peed on his way home instead. My other cat uses the bathroom outside (from the most part) but Sam is indoor only. I might try to find the special type of litter.
I can't be more grateful to all of your help. I don't think I could make it only with the instructions of my vet!!

 

Re: How often to feed a cat?

From what I've noticed many of you free feed you cats, some feed 3 or 4 times a day. My vet is still telling me to feed him 2 x a day but I want to feed him 3 x. I don't want to disrespect my vet but I I think eating 2 x a day is very little :sad: I just don't know sometimes when to listen to the professional or when to go with my guts!

 

Re: How often to feed a cat?

Hi Melancia,

One thing to remember is that you are the one who loves him and knows him, not your vet or any of us even tho we want him to get well & you to succeed at getting him settled. You have to go with your gut. In this case, the research backs up that diabetics do best with small frequent meals. Read up on it and see what he wants. Diabetics don't process food or water correctl;y. They are always hungry and thirsty and urinate like crazy usually. It's good to always have water available and to feed small amounts often.

A lot of vets mean well but just aren't up on the latest research. Some vets are supportive of home testing and others think we're unable to handle it and would rather make money by making us come in. :smile: It all depends. Your vet started you on a good dosage of a good insulin so you're ahead of the game but that doesn't mean that you have to go against what feels right especially when he's lost so much weight.

Melanie & Racci

 

Re: How often to feed a cat?

Just dropping in to see how you're going. Its always a trial by fire, starting testing. I hope you have some luck today. Don't give up! Things are looking up, you're even getting blood, which is usually the biggest problem. Did you shoot?

 

Re: How often to feed a cat?

Thank you for your support once gain :]

this is true some vets aren't up to date. I remember the first time I was told Sam might have diabetes I asked my vet if I should change his diet and he said no. This is when I found catinfo.org. The vet wanted to prescribe specific diabetes food but I told him I wasn't settle on it, he said he wasn't a nutrition expert so he trusts Hills and Purina, but he respected my opinion which I'm glad, he didn't force me to do anything! He was supportive with home testing but since I'm not using alphatrack I don't know if he will like it!! oh well..

By the end of this day Sam will have eaten 1 can 6z of food, I haven't seem him eating like this in a long time! I'm so happy with him :]

Yes I gave insulin to him this morning but I will try to test him before I give the other dose tonight. I was probably using the meter incorrectly so we'll see how things will go!
I will keep you guys posted :}

 

Re: How often to feed a cat?

Melancia,

Everyone here has also been helped by others when they were new and soon you will be able to help others too that are new and trying to learn all this new stuff at once and worried about their furbabies so don't think anything of it.

It's great that he's eating so well. Just remember with the testing to always put the strip with the black or striped end in the meter, facing up and the part you get blood on sticking out and always wait till you see the blood drop on the meter before putting blood on it. I'm not sure what order your strip goes into your meter. Some go in first, some at the last minute but they all have that in common.

What I do is stick my strip in the meter, halfway (not enough to make the meter start, this way it is ready. When I have a drop of blood, I stick the strip the rest of the way in and grab the blood with it but I never used your meter so better read the directions and listen to those who have. Mine only takes a second to get ready once the strip is pushed in.

Your vet sounds pretty supportive. Just stand up for what you believe nicely. Just say he's starving and you have to feed him more often or don't even mention it, or you could try to educate him about it by bringing in some materials from online research if you feel comfortable doing that.

BTW, I tried using the lancet without a pen today on Racci's +6 test and it was easier than a bad pen. I'll be doing it that way until my new Freestyle pen comes.

Melanie & Racci

 

Re: How often to feed a cat?

GOOD NEWS!!! I was finally able to test Sam! I was doing it all wrong. His result was 362 though :/ if the human meter isn't that accurate do you think it is 50 over or 50 less than 362? I know at the vet's office he tested 400.

That is good you used the lancet without the pen. I also find it very helpful!

I'm soo happy :]
Thanks for your valuable suggestions!!

 

Re: How often to feed a cat?

all meters have a +/- of 20% but you just use the reading on the meter as it is, it is not uncommon for BGs to be lower at home than it is at the vet's office due to Vet Stress.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang

 

Re: How often to feed a cat?

Oh Good on you! :thumbup
And I'm strangely pleased to see a number in the three hundreds, that's much better than 21!

Do you have any plans to do a blood glucose curve? That's the next step.
You take a reading every couple of hours, to work out what is happening over the course of 12 hours.

When you do one, choose a day when you have the time; maybe this weekend? So long as puss will cooperate.
Actually I found that my first couple of curves were good, because it meant Akbah and I got into a routine with it. He learned that the testing meant special treats and a fuss being made. Soon enough, my civvie Hannah worked out that tests means treats, and now they both line up for it when they see me getting the lid off the testing tin: a biscuit tin containing heat sock, torch, meter, lancet, strips, spare needles, a pen. There's a box of tissues next to it. So I open the tin, put the lid on the couch and line up in the lid: my pen (to write the measure on my hand afterward) the torch, the lancet, the meter, take out a strip and put it half in. Put a new needle in the lancet if required. Leave the lid on the lancet. By this stage the cats are lined up and Akbah is usually on the couch, watching. Then I get the sock and a tissue, and go to the microwave, followed by cats. Heat the sock 26 seconds, folding up the tissue to make a backer-cushion for his ear when I do the prick. Take the treats out of the fridge. Get the sock out of the microwave and tuck the tissue into it so that it warms up too. Over to the couch, followed by cats.

Akbah sits in front of me, so I pick him up and put him next to me on the couch. Inspect his ears with the torch to find my next target spot. Warm his ear for at least a minute, with lots of ear and cheek scratching, and back stroking. take the lid off the lancet, turn the torch back on, torch in teeth, take warmed tissue out of sock, tissue in ear, poke. Hopefully, that's that and there's blood. Then, holding his head and ear (some people get the blood onto their fingernail but I have unreliable fingernails, so I leave it on the ear)... Push the strip into the meter (I do this in front of ak so he doesn't turn his head too much); wait till it beeps. Get the blood sample. Show ak the screen, and tell him what the number was. Hold off his ear with the tissue for 30 seconds, with more head scratching. Put stuff away. Write number onto hand. Distribute treats. Pack up tin.

 

Re: How often to feed a cat?

oh thank you for he tips what kind os treats do you give them> I order on amazon a chicken treat that I read here on this foreum but for no i give him 1 temptation, he loves taht thing!
I think I will do the monitoring today, so I will do taht every couple hrs and post here right> cause I don't think I will know what to do with the information. I think for know it's too soon to reduce the insulin amount right? so the info I will be collecting it's just to see what happens to him?

 

Re: How often to feed a cat?

I actually just tested sam, he was on an empty stomach and I got 135 mg. Can this be right? he was 362 last night. It's been a little over 12 hrs since I last gave isulin.
He is eating now but I'm wondering if I should give his insulin this morning or not since I heard less than 200 mg there is no need to give insulin. Not sure what to do here!

 

Re: How often to feed a cat?

Hi Melancia,

Did you see the post on the first page of the health forum about low numbers? Read that. He is in no danger at 135 but that was before eating. Test him again after eating and delay his shot until he is over 225-250 which should be in an hour or two. Just remember when you delay the morning shot, you also have to delay the evening shot so it's about 12 hours away. That's great that you're testing and great that he's readting well to the insulin. Did you have a good blood drop when you tested? You might want to double check again to make sure it was accurate since that is low for 12 hours and let us know. I have to take care of Racci's test and shot soon so will be leaving for a while but will check again before i start with her and when I get back.

You're going to need to start a spreadsheet to keep track of the readings and shots so we can help you better. the link for instrucctions is: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207#p179835

Melanie

 

Re: How often to feed a cat?

Thank you Melanie.
No I haven't read the forum about low numbers but will look for it this morning!
yes I had a really good blood drop when I tested him.
I will test him again in 1 hr to see what I get and give his insulin if it's higher than what you suggested.
I will also go through the worksheet and get it setup!

thanks :]

 

Re: How often to feed a cat?

Hi Melancia,

I have a little more time now. In case you didn't find it, this is very important and you should print it out in case you ever need it. http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=61799. At 135 he is in no danger though. Have you checked him again yet? Sometimes they go up fast.

Until you know more about your cat you should not shoot at low numbers but we also have a post on shooting at low numbers. After you've been testing him for a while and done a few curves you'll get a feel for what's safe for him.

Melanie & Racci

 

Re: How often to feed a cat?

I jsut tested him and he is 291. Last time he ate as at 9am. Should i give his insulin now? but then does it mean I have to give his next shot at 1:50am? (it's 1:50pm where I live).

 

Re: How often to feed a cat?

He's really gone up! That's why I said not to wait too long. Yes give his shot now and test him about but I would lower his dose a little. It seems that his dose is too high. I would go down 1/2 unit. Do you have 1/2 units marked on your syringe? Its probably too late now but for the next dose lower it. I'm sorry I wasn't here when you needed me. I'm going to send you a pm with a phone # so that doesn't happen again.

Melanie & Racci

 

Re: How often to feed a cat?

thank you. well you have your own life and cats to take care so I understand!
No there isn't 1/2 unit on my serynge. should I eyeball 1/2 unit?
he just finished eating it so I will give his shot pretty soon.
So do I have to wake up at 2 am for his next shoot? should I eyeball it too to 1/2 unit?
thanks

 

Re: How often to feed a cat?

Yes, you will have to eyeball it. I sent you that pm, btw. I'm sorry to say you may even have to give it later than 2 if he's too low. :YMSIGH: Been there, done that. Then it takes a few days to get him back on schedule by moving him back 1/2 hour a day until he's baclk to 12. Sorry. You can check tonight about 1am though and see what his bg is, if it is high enough, 11 hours is safe as long as his bg been going up all night.

The new dose will take a few days to settle so you may see his numbers go crazy for a day. Don't worry if they do. The 2nd or 3rd day will be a better day to tell if it was a good move to lower the dose. I don't think it will since he hasn't been regular anyway but just in case.

If you ever need help right away when its important and noone is around you can also post in both the PZI board and this one to get greater exposure or change the header.Oh, and please try to get that spreadsheet up so we can better help you and keep track of all these doses and bgs. http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207#p179835 Instructions.

Edited: Was 1U PZI now .5 PZI

 

yes he is taking 2 units a day. Thank you I got your msg.
I wanted to give his shots at 9am and 9pm (this works for my schedule better).
So if at 2am he is under 200 I don't give insulin right? If this is the case for example, when should I check back? when I wake up early in the morning?
If at 2 am he is higher than 200 then I give his shot, so how do I get back to 9am and 9pm schedule?
I don't know what I'm doing and I don't want to put my cat in danger!

 

Re: How often to feed a cat?

I just saw a post I missed before. He is on 2 units? Is it Lantus or PZI? Please clear this up. This will bring him to 1.5?

You have a choice. If he is low at 2, you can either wait another hour at most because he will probably go up fast or you can wait until 8 or 9 tomorrow morning to get him closer to the time you want in which case he will be really high and still all screwed as far as schedule. You should really work hard at getting him back on a every 12 hour schedule after this time either way though and definitely get that SS going so you know what's going on with him.

Melanie & Racci

 

Re: How often to feed a cat?

he is on prozinc. I give him 1 unit 2 x a day but I just gave him 1/2 unit 1 hr ago. so I give him 1/2 unite 2x a day he will be taking total of 1 unit a day.
I'm just confused because if he was 135 this morning should I have given his shot anyways since his levels went up?
I just don't want this to happen again so I don't know if he is low, if the best solution will be not to give insulin then but give him in 12 hrs again :/
I will start on the worksheet right now.

thanks!

 

I just added my spreadsheet! But i'm just a bit confused about the + numbers, if they mean time where is 12? I don't know if my ss makes any sense..!

 

That is what I thought! I must have seem someone else's message next to yours. That's one of the reasons for a ss. It eliminates mistakes.

You could have either waited an hour or fed him and tried again. Either way would have been okay this morning but now we have to deal with what is. In the future, try feeding him to see if that will bring him up and test again . If that brought him up, you could then shoot him a little late instead of real late. Or you could wait an hour at most and try testing again, and feed after testing which would be ideal if he was ready. And the same should apply to tonight.

Melanie


I was just posting when your message came in. the numbers are + the hours since you shot. amps= am or morning pre=shot also = 12th hour and pmps would = pm pre-shot.

 

ok it makes sense now. Since he was on empty stomach he was testing low, if I had tested him after he ate his levels would have been a little higher than I could have given his shot then..
Now that I made this mess is there any way that I can fix the current situation? Could I test him close to midnight and see what his levels are? but then if it's high 12 hrs wouldn't have passed. Is it dangerous is I test him tomorrow at 9am and skip the 2am ordeal? :?
oh ok I think I understand this worksheet now but I"m not sure if what I added is under the correct field.
on 2/16 I didn't test him but I gave 1u at 9am didn't give at night
2/17 I gave 1u at 9am but still didn't figure out the meter thing, at 9pm I tested him 362 but it was right after he ate :/ and gave him 1u
today I tested him at 9am 135mg, tested at 2pm 291 gave 0.5u. does this info make sense on this ss?

thanks

 

I'm confused too now! Melancia has become Nadja! I hope that was an amicable takeover. ;-)

Spread sheet ...well, your 21 is missing, you could put it in and write a note in the comments saying it might have been a misreading. May as well keep it in case you find that Sam really is swinging that much.

You need that 362 over near PMPS (= pm or evening, preshot). If you tested him directly after he ate, I'd put it to the left of the shot, as the PMPS measure as their BG doesn't change that fast. But if it was an hour later, put it into the +1 box, on the right of the shot.
In the columns for the shots, write "1U at 9am" ... "1U at 9pm" so that people can see later, that the time changed.

There is a "12" over on the far right in +12, not sure what that is? Also for the day before. Need to lose those 12s, you've never had a 12 BG reading have you?

Put the 135 over to the left, in the AMPS column (am or morning, pre shot). Put the 291 in +5, as 2pm is 5 hours after 9am.
Then in the column for the shot, write "0.5U at 2pm"

Hope this makes sense.

 

It looks like the 21 happened on 17th at about 1:20? So I'd call that 1pm.
9am - 1pm is 4 hours, so put the 21 in on the 17th, after the AMPS at +4

 

First things first. I'm glad it makes sense now. Usually you would not want to test on a full stomach, some treats are ok but not on a meal. BUT if you test and get too low a reading it is ok to feed say half a meal or less, wait for it to settle 15 minutes or so and then test again and see if it's safe to shoot. Try to keep as close to schedule as possible even if it means feeding or giving less of a dose by 1/2-1 unit when he is at 200. Play it safe but he was started at 2u which may be much too high for him so better safe than sorry and you know if you skip it all together he will be very high by later which is bad for him. Understand?

Now for tonight, I would be afraid to give it almost 3 hours early without having history on him. You can test him at midnight and then at 1am. What time did you shoot him today? I would not shoot more than an hour early and only if he went up at 1 from his 12 bg. Did I explain that well enough? If you skip it altogether, in the morning he will be very high again so post here with his bg. Someone will be up. We are international. Change the beginning of your header to Help Now Please!

Your ss should have your first shots of the day, 9am in the Amps column, your tests during the day should be after that in the hours after the first shot so +1=10am.+2=11, etc. Your night shot should be in pmps and then any after that should represent the times following it. Understand now? Let me know so I can clarify before I go cook dinner. :smile:

Melanie

 

Akbah's mom is here now too. Sorry didn't notice your post about ss. I was a little confused by the name change also. :razz:

Nadja, You should also change the time zone settings when you get a chance because when you were saying you just gave a shot it was almost 6pm my time. We all set it for our own time so people know what time it was when we posted. Until you do, you'll have to be specific. :smile:

Melanie

 

Hi Melanie
Hey Nadja, Good on you for the trouble you're taking for your cat.
I've sent you a PM in case you'd like help fixing up your spreadsheet, as that all got a bit technical.

Your cat is only on 0.5U twice a day isn't he. Started on 1U, now down to 0.5?
If you did 2am tonight, then maybe you can move it back to 1pm/1am tomorrow, 12noon/midnight the next day...
Is this going to fit with your work times?

That will be really helpful to get an idea of how Sam is responding to the insulin, those frequent tests today will fill out his spreadsheet.

Regarding treats: I give akbah a little bit of meat. Yesterday, it was a bit of roast chicken from our tea. Often, its a bit of roast meat which would otherwise go on my husband's sandwiches.

 

thank you I will look at your msg because I know my ss needs some improvement!

I started at 1un but Melanie suggested me to lower the dose to .5. at the prozinc forum they suggested me to lower it to .75 :/
How can I tell my cat needs more or less?
I was also wondering if it's best to test him before he eats and right after he ate (before the shot) or just after he ate..
Today I fed him 3 small portions, he still needs 1 more for dinner, is this good? I know we already talked about how many times to fee, some people free feed other smalls portions.. I don't know what is best for him :sad: It's just hard for me to see him begging for food :?

 

I test mine before he eats. If Sam is hungry that's good, he was not eating before. Give him a wee bit more, so long as its low carb. Sam has probably lost weight recently? He's not obese or something is he?

The only reason I don't free feed is because if I did, Akbah would gobble it all up in one go and then puke.

You can only be sure if your cat needs more or less by getting frequent regular BGs for awhile, that's why if you can get BG every two hours for 12 hours would be a great thing.

 

Sam has lot some weight, a little over 2 lb.s He is now 10.9. My vet said it would be nice if he could loose a little bit more but not overnight (like the way he lost 2 lbs).

I have another cat, Franklin, he is all white and Sam is all black. he needs to loose some weight :? maybe 3 lbs. He is also on wet food, on wellness. Sam eats nature's variety, he didn't care for wellness. Franklin goes outside and I know some of the neighbors feed him because he is an adored cat in the "hood". I just don't know exactly who feeds him.
I wanted to do the curve thing today but someone said it would be pointless since I didn't give insulin this morning. today would have been a great day. I think Tuesday might work for me.
I'm just not sure if as of right now I should continue giving him 1U or reduce it. Maybe I should give him 1 U until I do the curve thing, would this be a smart thing to do?
Well I need to get some dinner. Last time I ate at was breakfast.. but this forum is addicting!
Thanks for all your help! Everyone has been great and I appreciate it

 

See what his next BG is. I think testing him at the moment would be useful, even if you didn't get a full curve, at least you'd have some idea of what was happening in his system.
LIke, if its 7:30pm there now, and you're looking toward a 1:30 or 1am shot? If you test now, and again at 10pm, and again at midnight, you'll have some idea of how much change is happening with his BG.
I say you need measurements.

 

thank you! I actually just tested him and he is 356. I must say he was a bit nervous, he is learning when I'm grabbing my stuff to poke him.. :?

 

I decided to post in the PZI forum as now that you are getting BGs, you needed more experienced eyes to look at dose and timing of shots.
And I see you are already there! Hooray!

If anyone else is looking for the rest of the conversation, its at
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=63946#p693650

 

I just posted some information on the prozinc forum on the link above