Confused - Why does vet say ok to shoot when AMPS BG is 106?

Discussion in 'Prozinc / PZI' started by Debbie & Mishka, Feb 21, 2018.

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  1. Debbie & Mishka

    Debbie & Mishka Member

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    Feb 18, 2018
    OK -- I'm new to all this and receiving conflicting advice. I hate to doubt by vet, want to trust him, but....

    Mishka is soon to be 17 y/o. Diagnosed last month. Testing with AlphaTrak. No spreadsheet. Vet says 1U of Prozinc 2x a day, but when I did test at +4-1/2 hrs out, I got 86 and 87 BG both times. I let Mishka nibble on food then tested at 5-1/2 and BG went up a little. Mishka wasn't eating that well, so vet said it was ok to go to .5 U 2x a day. Now, I'm not sure when to shoot, when not to shoot, etc. I took my numbers to the vet on Monday and he said it was ok to give 1U even when the AMPS BG was 106. That worries me. Last night Mishka's BG was 131 at 11+ out from AM shot. I gave him .5 U insulin then tested at +5 and BG was 155. He never seemed to get comfortable, drinking more water than usual and just seemed plain irritated every time I tried to pet him, etc. This morning AMPS was 176, which was higher. I gave .5U this morning and then again tonight when PMPS BG was 186. He seems to feel better and gave himself a nice long bath. He eats nothing but Fancy Feast now. I just don't understand what "safe" numbers are to give him his insulin. Two years ago he was diabetic and went into remission when we took his dry food away. That vet told me not to give insulin when BG was 175. So very, very confused......
     
  2. FurBabiesMama

    FurBabiesMama Well-Known Member

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    Jul 6, 2017
    Hi. I had a vet tell me to give the planned dose regardless of number. She said, "Even if it is 100, give the dose." She could not be reasoned with on it, so that was the end of our relationship. I had an example to show her of when Mia's number was not even as low as 100, and I gave her a reduced dose, and she went too low. So, what would have happened if I had given the full dose?! We then found another vet (internal medicine specialist) who was MUCH more knowledgeable about feline diabetes. It was such a relief to have an intelligent conversation with someone about it. Everything he said was in line with what I had learned from my own research. He said he wished all pet parents were like me - quite the contrast from that other vet who did not like me questioning her or going against anything she said, no matter how wrong or dangerous.

    The general 'rule' when you first start is not to shoot at 200 for human meter and more like 250 for AlphaTrak, but as you get some testing data, you can lower that no-shot number to what is appropriate for your baby. At this point, I know I can give Mia her full dose if her number is below 250.. even a little below 200.. but I would not give her the full dose if she was at or close to 100.
     
  3. Becky & Baby Girl Kitty

    Becky & Baby Girl Kitty Well-Known Member

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    Sep 15, 2017
    Just saying FurBabiesMama has great advice. This forum has a lot of excellent info on the stickies to read & learn. Unfortunately most vets are not well trained in feline diabetes. A hypo event is very harmful to our babies...
     
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  4. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Debbie - Welcome! And great job getting going with home testing!

    Here is the link for the spreadsheet we all use:
    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/

    Make sure you set up the one for the pet meter if you're going to keep using the AT2. Or the human meter if you're going to switch over. The color coding is all automatic, so you just need to input your numbers and the rest is done for you.

    Oh, and here are the directions to understand the different columns, but also feel free to ask if you're not sure on something:
    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/understanding-the-spreadsheet-grid.156606/

    FBM's story illustrates a common problem with vets and feline diabetes - they often just don't know a lot about how to manage it. They do their best, but they have limited experience or expertise in this disease as it relates to cats. And also, as she said, the more data you collect, the more you study your cat's responses, determines when you can shoot a full dose, a reduced dose, or no dose.

    Cats who have been in remission and relapsed are harder to regulate the second time around and often require a more aggressive dosing method. We are more than happy to help you get that figured out. My kitty is on his second round as well, and I often need to shoot his full dose on numbers that are much lower than I ever imagined would be safe. But again, I collected a lot of data before I knew what was safe for him and what wasn't.

    Let us know how we can help, and if you have any trouble with the spreadsheet just ask - we have someone who is great at helping with that and can get you connected.
     
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  5. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 25, 2013
    Welcome Debbie and Mishka! You’ve gotten some great info already so I won’t repeat it. What other questions can we help with?
     
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  6. Debbie & Mishka

    Debbie & Mishka Member

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    Feb 18, 2018

    Thank you!!! Just all a little overwhelming!
     
  7. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 17, 2016
    It sure is! Take it in small bites and come here to ask any/all questions you have. :)
     
  8. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

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    Dec 27, 2017
    You picked a good place to get guidance. There is no need for me to repeat what was already said- just remember this is a a race. You aren't trying to compete with anyone to see who can go into remission first.

    In regards to your vet--in the end it is ultimately your choice, as you hold the syringe, but until you have suffice data I'd be cautious.
     
    Debbie & Mishka likes this.
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