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Cutie Pie diagnosed on 8/13/19

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by Limekitty, Aug 17, 2019.

  1. Limekitty

    Limekitty Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2019
    Cutie Pie is a 14 yr old Maine Coon (15 lbs) and is a sweetheart. I've been reading this board for guidance as we have a good vet, but I realized I needed more info to test, feed and dose. The vet prescribed ProZinc and said to give her 2u twice a day for 2 days then increase to 3 u twice a day. I set up the spreadsheet for the past 3 days and today was the 3 u day. She was at 308 amps then at +3 160 and +9 73. She's had 4.5 oz of FF thru out the day and is currently at 170. I don't want to give the 3 u but thought maybe 1.5 ?? Any help is appreciated. Thanks, Carole
     
  2. Idjit's mom

    Idjit's mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2018
    Carole, we are looking for a more experienced member that is familiar with Prozinc to advise.

    We see so many vets advising increases of whole units, and we usually see how the starting dose does for some days while gathering testing data, before making increase or decrease suggestions. Per info on Prozinc the usual starting dose is 1 U and you have not had much time to gather data.

    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/prozinc-pzi.24/

    I think what you may see tomorrow is higher BG again, after the lower BGs today. It's called "bouncing"
    Here's an explanation of what we call "bouncing". It explains why a kitty's BG can go from low to sky high: (possibly contributing to your kitty's high BG at the higher dose he's on)
    BG goes low OR lower than usual OR drops too quickly.
    Kitty's body panics and thinks there's danger (OMG! My BG is too low!).
    Complex physiologic processes take glycogen stored in the liver (I think of it as "bounce fuel"), convert it to glucose and dump it into the bloodstream to counteract the perceived dangerously low BG.
    These processes go into overdrive in kitties who are bounce prone and keep the BG propped up varying lengths of time (AKA bouncing).
    Bounce prone kitty repeats this until his body learns that healthy low numbers are safe. Some kitties are slow learners.
    Too high a dose of insulin can keep them bouncing over and over until the " bounce fuel" runs out and they crash - ie., have a hypo episode. That's why we worry so much about kitties that have had too high a starting dose prescribed by the vet and the owner isn't home testing.

    @MrWorfMen's Mom
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2019
  3. Idjit's mom

    Idjit's mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2018
    Just FYI, be very specific and descriptive in your titles, you need dosing information right now and members won't know it. They will think your title is more of just here I am, here's my story, etc. It's all a learning process and I'm so very glad you are questioning and learning, and found this board.
     
  4. Limekitty

    Limekitty Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2019
    I see now I should have kept to the 2u this am. Since her last test is at 169 I'm thinking of leaving food out for her tonite and no shot. I appreciate the feed back :)
     
    Red & Rover (GA) likes this.
  5. Red & Rover (GA)

    Red & Rover (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2016
    From: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...prozinc-pzi-insulin-for-diabetic-cats.164995/

    The proper sequence for dosing insulin is: Test/Feed/Shoot. In the beginning, if your cat’s BG is not up to at least 200 mg/dL {11 mmol/L}, if your schedule allows, you can stall (without feeding) for 20+minutes, then retest the BG. You are looking for a number that is rising, not falling and up to 200 mg/dL {11 mmol/L}. If you stall once, but can’t do another round of stalling and your cat hasn’t reached a BG of 200 mg/dL {11 mmol/L}, you’ll need to skip the dose and wait until the next cycle. NOTE: Because pet-specific meters (such as the AlphaTrak2) often read higher than human meters, you may want to adjust the NO-SHOOT number to 225 mg/dL {12.5 mmol/L} or even 250 mg/dL {14 mmol/L} This gives you an added margin of safety when using an AlphaTrak2 or other pet-specific meter.
    IMPORTANT NOTE: Do not feed your cat within the two-hour window right before the scheduled dose time; doing this can raise your cat’s blood significantly, giving you a higher BG number based on food. This could result in your giving insulin when you should not, or giving more insulin than you should.


    What sticks out to me is that your vet increased too much and too fast. If you increase by 1 unit increments, it is possible to skip right by the best dose for the cat.

    It would help if you started to get a couple of tests during night-time cycles to get a fuller picture of what the insulin is doing. A lot of cats tend to go lower during the pm cycle.
     
  6. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Hello and welcome to FDMB.
    The usual starting dose for ProZinc is 1u and possibly 1.5u for a large kitty but at 15lbs. Cutie pie isn't that large.
    Can you clarify what happened at PMPS on the night of the 14th? It looks like you may not have been able to get a pre-shot test or perhaps you were trying to get back on schedule and skipped the shot. Is that correct?

    Looks to me like Cutie Pie has been bouncing for a couple of days which is normal but could also be from the dose being too high and it's possible you are just seeing the end of the bounce today but a full unit increase in dose is huge.

    If Cutie Pie has no history of DKA or ketones then I'd reduce the dose to 1.5u for a few cycles and then increase in half unit increments as needed.

    I would also suggest you get a test before bed every night. A lot of kitties go lower at night than during the day so it's important to get some info on what's happening during the night to figure out dosing. Without any night time data, you are really only seeing half the story.

    One housekeeping item.....your signature says you are giving PZI which is a different insulin and it says "tid" which is 3 times daily. Can you change it to ProZinc and BID. And can you add the meter you are using so we have that for quick reference too. Thx.
     
    Red & Rover (GA) likes this.
  7. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    I saw you skipped the shot tonight and I agree that was the right thing to do.
     
  8. Limekitty

    Limekitty Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2019
    I fixed my signature line ~ thanks. On the 14th, I was trying to get back on schedule and did skip the shot. The syringes I have are U40. Should I have the U100 instead for more accurate dosing?
     
    MrWorfMen's Mom likes this.
  9. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    I'm betting your U40 syringes do not have half unit markings??? You can do more precise and smaller dose changes with U100 syringes using the conversion chart but U40 syringes with half unit markings are fine too.
     
  10. Idjit's mom

    Idjit's mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2018
    Carole, you can use the U100 syringes for fine dosing, but there is a conversion chart and you have to be very careful to use the right dose. I recommend you read the stickies at the top of the Prozinc forum which gives a great deal of information about using Prozinc. Even if you have visited that forum, and read through the information already, it's good to go back and read slowly and carefully. There is a lot to learn and you can't do it all at once, no one expects that.
     
  11. Limekitty

    Limekitty Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2019
    Thx, I'll reread the forum in the morning. My U40 syringes don't have half unit markings so I'll look into that, too. Appreciate the support from everyone!
     
  12. Idjit's mom

    Idjit's mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2018
    You will get there, no doubt. It's just a step by step process, and every single cat is different. It's a learning exercise for all of us every time. Rest well tonight, and wake refreshed and ready for another day.
     
    Limekitty and CandyH & Catcat like this.
  13. Limekitty

    Limekitty Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2019
    Thx for the encouragement :) Sorry I didn't get on eariler to post. She was high this am so I gave her 2 u. I'll probably have a question or two later. This board is awesome!
     
  14. Idjit's mom

    Idjit's mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2018
    This board is indeed awesome. Please do keep in touch, as often as you like. We don't know how to help if we don't know what's going on. Regarding dosing, the best place to post is right in the Prozinc forum. There are experienced Prozinc users that can advise you well, and the Prozinc members are terrific.
     
  15. Limekitty

    Limekitty Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2019
    We had better numbers today. She's at 199 so I'm going to give her some FF and check in 2 hrs before dosing.
     
  16. Idjit's mom

    Idjit's mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2018
    A good day, good Cutie Pie!!!
     
  17. Limekitty

    Limekitty Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2019
    Yes it was :) She's so good with the testing but I need to get better at the pokes in the ear!
     

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