Diabetic kitty in NYC shelter--Updates below, getting better

Hi
Here is a kitty on the Pets On Death Row facebook kill list for tomorrow (PODR is a rescue group who posts the shelter's info.)

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid= ... =3&theater

I have posted this on Diabetic Cats in Need on facebook...we need donations first of all to add up to help fund a rescue to pull and treat this kitty.

I'm trying to decide if I can do it. I probably can't because I have my hands full with cats and 2 fosters right now...but also want to get a handle on it.

Can someone more knowledgeable than me (or several of you) please give an assessment of the medical write up for this kitty? This kitty will be killed first thing in the morning if not pulled. No time to procrastinate on this one, must give the notice to a rescue group to pull by midnight or the wee hours of the morning.

thank you
Martica

 

Re: Diabetic kitty about to die in NYC shelter--pls help ass

I don't know if the link worked--it's the very skinny kitty in this group:

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set= ... 253&type=3

 

Re: Diabetic kitty about to die in NYC shelter--pls help ass

If clicking on the pic doesn't work...go to this link, which seems to--and then scroll in the arrow right by the photo on the right to the right, next photo

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid= ... =3&theater

 

Re: Diabetic kitty about to die in NYC shelter--pls help ass

The page won't display for me.

 

Re: Diabetic kitty about to die in NYC shelter--pls help ass

Did you try scrolling thru? If you click on another picture and then click the arrows to the right you can get to him. Shane, actually he's 10 years old, skinny, grey, standing and meowing.

 

Re: Diabetic kitty about to die in NYC shelter--pls help ass

I don't understand all their abbreviations...
But he was testing BG 295, then later that day at 695
Urine glucose 4+, ketones 1+
They've given him two shots of H 1u,
It says DKA, but they have run blood work.
He's gotten fluids but is still dehyrdated.

Then there is contradictory info saying he's not had insulin in two days?
He's been there for less than two days and they marked him for PTS?

 

Re: Diabetic kitty about to die in NYC shelter--pls help ass

They kill fast there. I tried to save one kitty who was literally given 1 day and wasn't even sick or anything, just terrified and aggressive because of it. Gorgeous 14 year old Russian Blue. I was too late getting to him.

What is hyperthyroid/poss neoplasia--does that mean a tumor on the thyroid possibly? And isn't thyroid treatable? Iv'e never dealt with that.

Anything else besides the diabetes that might be of concern?

I think you were reading the BG readings backwards--check the dates--he was 695 and then they gave him insulin and he got down to 295. I think. And it might be for the first couple of days he got none. Not sure.

Does it look like he's dying or do you think he can live?

 

Re: Diabetic kitty about to die in NYC shelter--pls help ass

I think Ddx means differential diagnosis.
The possibilities are Chronic Kidney Disease, Ketoacidosis/diabetes, hyperthyroidism, or possible neoplasia (cancer)

Basically a kitty that needs a full medical workup to determine what is wrong.

 

Re: Diabetic kitty about to die in NYC shelter--pls help ass

Martica,
The picture looks like he's starving to death. Look at the size of his head compared to his body size. That could be due to long term uncontrolled diabetes, but could be a sign of lots of other things, including Hyper T or cancer.

 

Re: Diabetic kitty about to die in NYC shelter--pls help ass

I'm trying to decide if it's more than I can handle--both time-wise and finanically...

 

Re: Diabetic kitty about to die in NYC shelter--pls help ass

Martica,
Time wise I have no idea, but you've seen the DCIN FB page right? Maybe that can help you? Won't hurt to investigate that option...
Carl

 

Re: Diabetic kitty about to die in NYC shelter--pls help ass

Hi Carl
Yes, I posted there twice earlier and no one responded at all.

It's a slow night on all the Pets on Death Row pages. Everyone is at Xmas parties and not on their internet I think...bad for the cats that need saving...

 

Re: Diabetic kitty about to die in NYC shelter--pls help ass

Hi Martica

I'm just seeing your post now. What did you end up doing? To answer your question, this is a very sick cat. With aggressive treatment (he'll need to be hospitalized) he might live, it will take $ though. He's blind, so he might be hyperthyroid -> hypertensive or he could be hypertensive from CKD (chronic kidney disease). Seems like a nice kitty

 

Re: Diabetic kitty about to die in NYC shelter--pls help ass

((((Martica))))

DCIN was alerted to Shane a few times in the past 36 hours. Shane is a very, very sick cat and, among other reasons, DCIN cannot afford to save him. DCIN has fundraised and spent more than $10K on DKA cats in the past few months. And those were cats with committed homes. Not "strays" as Shane is.

I suggested to the NYC rescuers who contacted DCIN that the NYCACC not wait the required "reclamation" period and lovingly euthanize Shane ASAP. We can't save them all, and Shane is too sick to save. It would be more kind to help him move on.

To allow others to understand what is happening, the NYCACC has a convoluted process for approving rescues to pull cats from its shelters. Information about the animals that are on the rescue list is only available to "approved" rescues. Most cats that are marked for destruction have a day, maybe two, for an approved rescue to pull them from the shelter. Individuals are not allowed to adopt the cats that are marked for destruction. It is a complicated procedure for a rescue to become "approved" by the NYCACC to pull a cat. Except for one rescue (the way I understand it), the rescues that are currently NYCACC-approved to pull cats marked for destruction will not place a cat outside of NY.

NYCACC's shelters, and its "approved" rescues, is a system that DCIN does not presently have the resources to deal with. DCIN does not have a shelter facility or fostering network that could become part of that process. And DCIN certainly could not afford to pull a DKA cat.

I feel very badly for Shane. And the other diabetic cats that make their way into that system. DCIN was able a few months back to rescue a diabetic cat from that system. It took an incredible amount of effort, and in the end it turned out the cat was not diabetic. That is part of the problem. The NYCACC will not slow down and allow careful evaluation of a cat's medical status.

So for the time being, DCIN is unable to work with the NYCACC shelter and its "approved" rescuers. I will continue to "hide" any NYCACC diabetic cat brought to DCIN's FB page. It's not fair to DCIN's friends, or to the folks here on FDMB, to present you with diabetic cats that DCIN does not have the resources to save.

 

Re: Diabetic kitty about to die in NYC shelter--pls help ass

Hi Jess
Well the funds were the issue for me. Why does vet care have to be so exorbitant? I understand that there may be some concessions for low income people but what about if you're a sort of decent income but you are still living in NYC and have vet care for multiple cats, etc. It's still prohibitive to help a sick kitty.

Venita, I didn't see Shane until he went on the e-list last night. I do volunteer work with Anjellicle and they could have pulled him for me and i was toying with it all night. It was the funds that were the issue and I was hoping there would be some more pledges that would cover a chunk of his immediate medical fees which seem like they would be up to $1000 in the next week. But only $120 was raised, not nearly enough.

I also was up this morning and in my car and near the shelter and was tossing and turning whether to just show up there. But again, it was the funding. I was thinking that even if he died it still would be better for him to have his last few days feeling loved and cared for. But I still couldn't just fork out $1000 for that to happen. I currently have 2 other foster cats I saved 2 months ago (one is a senior 9 years who appears to be healthy but needs a dental, etc.)

It seems to me that since Shane was walking he was in better, rather than worse shape. Although who knows. Poor baby.

 

Re: Diabetic kitty about to die in NYC shelter--pls help ass

Shane is still alive, apparently untl 3pm NYC time. It is now 1:20pm. I've just put a plea out for donation pledges to see if I can round up the $2000 or so it will cost to treat him at the vet--he's in DKA.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid= ... =3&theater

IF that doesn't work, go here and scrolll from another cat to him.

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set= ... 253&type=3

 

Re: Diabetic kitty about to die in NYC shelter--pls help ass

Hi, Martica ~

Just sent you a PM. This breaks my heart...

Eva

 

Re: Diabetic kitty about to die in NYC shelter--pls help ass

((((Martica))))

You are indeed a most caring soul to help Shane this way. And bless Angelliclecats for sponsoring this rescue.

I will be among the first in line to donate for Shane's care. I am heading over to DCIN's Facebook page now to let folks know you are rescuing him and will need $ and prayer help.

 

Re: Diabetic kitty about to die in NYC shelter--pls help ass

I haven't yet seen a chip-in from AngellicleCats for Shane's care. I have set up a DCIN chip-in for Shane, and will forward all donations to AngellicleCats or the vet as soon as I can make contact. The DCIN chipin is here.

 

Re: Diabetic kitty about to die in NYC shelter--pls help ass

Waiting to hear more. Bless you, Martica, for trying to help Shane.

Eva

 

Re: Diabetic kitty about to die in NYC shelter--pls help ass

Did the chip in for Shane earlier today. :YMHUG:

 

Re: Diabetic kitty about to die in NYC shelter--pls help ass

I donated to Shane as well, his story just about broke my heart. Martica, you are an angel. Please update us when you can. Fingers and paws crossed that Shane is ok.

 

Re: Diabetic kitty about to die in NYC shelter--pls help ass

Hi, Everyone ~

This morning, I received the following message from Martica. I'm sure she won't mind that I'm sharing it here:

"So waiting for news, but as of 7pm last night he was not eating and was on IV fluids. But when I picked him up he was weak but alert and still getting up and moving a little. So I took that as a good sign. Have no idea of BGs or ketones, but apparently he is also hyperthyroid. Anyway, we are doing the blood tests, so I guess I"ll find out later."

xo
Martica

I know Martica will update us when she learns more. Hope precious little Shane starts feeling better soon with the loving care he's now receiving.

Eva

 

Re: Diabetic kitty about to die in NYC shelter--pls help ass

Sorry I didn't update, I thought I did (I have several pages to update!) Basically no real news but here's the latest:

UPDATE ON SHANE-Thurs-15-Dec-1pm:
Went by vet and Shane is still in intensive care. Spoke to vet tech who was in a rush. She said he’s the same and I wasn’t allowed to see him. She said he could not be moved (brought upstairs) and I wasn’t allowed downstairs. She said he is on IV still. His potassium was low so they’ve added that to the fluids. He ate a little on his own but gagged and so now he is on anti-nausea meds. He is on antibiotics, not sure why. They did his bloodwork but wouldn’t let me see, said I had to wait to talk to the doctor tomorrow. She said they were checking his blood glucose every 2 to 4 hours (I forgot which she said) and it was mid300s and then mid200s so pretty good. She could not tell me about ketones or thyroid. She said he would be there “for a while” and wouldn’t be coming home soon because he’s very sick. So hopefully will get more info later today, from Kathryn, the founder of Anjellicle who may be able to speak to a senior vet tech. The doctor who is dealing with him won’t be in until tomorrow. (Not sure why the other vet there couldn’t discuss, but maybe because this is a rescue situation.)

The vet tech seemed to have no idea what I was talking about when I said ketones or keotacidosis...she said you'll have to talk to the doctor, I can't diagnose. So that worries me abit. I never had to deal with that with Fred luckily, so not sure what it entails--need to search the site and read up here on it. But his BG at the shelter I believe was 800 and ketone was 1+. I guess the way they handle it, as I recall is monitoring and fluids, which he's getting so that's good right?

best
Martica

 

Re: Diabetic kitty about to die in NYC shelter--pls help ass

I might have missed this, since I don't have my glasses on and its a bit hard to read.. but if you're planning on adopting or fostering Shane, why won't they give you any info? Is it because right now he sort of belongs to the rescue? Just curious.

Also, was there a chipin or paypal I missed? I wanted to donate for him.


-Sarah

 

Re: Diabetic kitty about to die in NYC shelter--pls help ass

HI

Here is the chipin that Venita of DCIN started. She will forward the donations to Anjellicle.

http://dcintiko.chipin.com/mypages/view ... 2c09bf4212

It's very frustrating this vet, I have to say. I don't know why they won't tellme more but I have a feeling they treat everyone like this. The vet himself is great, it's just everyone else--hard to get any info out of anyone. They are busy, but whatever. I just called and was trying to find out about the ketones and how he is doing. A vet tech wouldn't speak to me, again relayed to me by a receptionist who really didn't know much of the medspeak.

So they said he is still the same, not eating Last blood glucose readings were: 283, 218, 138. I said well they better give him more calories if he is that low now. She said they were force feeding him. I sure hope they don't give him more insulin. They could not tell me anything about ketones. Apparently the doctor who sees him is not in until tomorrow AFTERNOON. This is frustrating.

I don't know really how to handle it. It IS through the rescue group, that is who will be billed and will pay. So I'm technically the foster, although realistically the adopter, but anyway, I just don't know how demanding I can be. It's tricky. I would not stand for this if I could. Anyway, hopefully he's ok. I guess the same means not worse, but I would like to think he's getting better but they are not saying that. I don't know why. His BG is certainly better. Sigh.

 

Re: Diabetic kitty about to die in NYC shelter--pls help ass

Please make sure they keep force feeding him or tube feeding him, so he doesn't have problems with his liver.
My kitty was DKA and while in the hospital they gave him insulin, fluids, helped his electolytes and potassium, he had a feeding tube, and he had a couple of tranfusions. He had a tube in very leg. It was a long time ago, so no details, but I do remember visiting him and peering at the chart once, attached to his cage and seeing a 26 and asking if that was his BG because that's what it looked like, along with a bunch of other BGs. The next time I visited him, there was no chart for me to peer at and question.
Sending best of luck and wisest of vet vines to Shane.

 

Re: Diabetic kitty about to die in NYC shelter--pls help ass

DCIN continues to collect funds for Shane's care. I haven't done the accounting, but it seems that I have seen about $350 for Shane. I need to communicate with the director of Angellicle Cats about how DCIN goes about paying those donations to the vet.

Shane's chip-in is here.

 

Re: Diabetic kitty about to die in NYC shelter--pls help ass

just made a small donation. Praying for Shane

 

Re: Diabetic kitty about to die in NYC shelter--pls help ass

Hello, Everyone ~

Martica, we're thinking of you and Shane this morning. Waiting for some news...some good news...about him has got to be so very hard for you. We all want to hear the news that the sweet little guy is improving. Maybe today when the vet handling Shane's treatment is in, you'll be able to get a better update.

Keeping you both close in our thoughts today,

Eva and Hubby Ken

 

Re: Diabetic kitty about to die in NYC shelter--pls help ass

Thank you, so much. I'm start to get more worried. So frustrating dealing with this vet's staff. I called this morning and she said I'm busy can you call back in 30 minutes. I called back in 60 minutes and their voicemail was on. The founder of the rescue group I work with has a vet appt with 2 cats their today so hopefully she will get more info by being there. They said I could talk to the doctor this afternoon. I hope the poor little guy is eating.

What does everyone think of the liver shake? I was poking around and came upon the recipe on here. As a near-vegan it's going to be hard to make, but I wonder if I make it and bring it to the vet would that be a good idea?

thanks
Martica

 

Re: Diabetic kitty about to die in NYC shelter--pls help ass

Finally spoke to the receptionist at the vet. She refuses to tell me anything. Says they are in surgery and I have to wait until after for when the vet gets in and does 'callbacks'. Beyond frustrating.

 

Re: Diabetic kitty about to die in NYC shelter--pls help ass

Hi Martika,
You are truely an angel to take on this kitty. I remember how you gave such great care to Fred. Shane will be lucky to have you. I tried the liver shake when Blackie was very sick and he couldn't tolerate it. And someone told me that if you are going to try it, to use chicken liver, not beef liver. Sorry for your frustrations with the vet. I hope Shane is better soon and that you will be able to take him home soon.

 

Re: Diabetic kitty about to die in NYC shelter--pls help ass

Update on Shane-Fri-16-Dec-9pm:
Went by vet so I could speak to him and hopefully see the kitty. I was able to stay with the kitty for one hour and kiss him and pet him and talk to him. He is very very very skinny. He is probably a 14 pound cat that weighs about 7. But, he is pretty strong. He kept getting up and trying to walk. He wanted to walk off the table and I had to use a little bit of strength to stop him. He would alternate lying and then getting up and trying to walk. He also stood on all 4 legs for a while an sat up tall for a while, both while I petted him. All the way from head to tail. His tail was very active, and I took that as a good sign—alert and I think curious. Everytime people walked past or a noise was made he looked to see what it was.

He had a very slow IV catheter on his leg. His eyes were very sunken, a sign that he is still very very dehydrated even though he’s now been on fluids non-stop for 48 hours. His body temperature was low but I think—not sure—that after my being with him and giving him lots of love he warmed up a bit. I think he felt better from the affection.

Spoke to the vet and he said that he was ‘stable’ but not necessarily improving. I asked what is the definition of improving and he said “…being able to be mobile and not get weak from it and have to rest. Eating,..” which he still is not although they said that he did so on his own once. He said all his electrolytes were very low and that was worse than the ketones and probably the reason why he was feeling so bad. He was going to either do another blood test tonight or get the results and he said he expected the electrolytes to have improved, although hopefully not too much because then something else would be the cause of his still weakness/anorexia, etc.

He said that Shane would be there 5-7 more days if everything went well. I asked for something for Shane to eat hoping he would eat for me, but he would not. Turned his head away.

I got a copy of his bloodwork, not sure when this is from, I guess from the evening of when he first got in. It says ‘received 12/15/2011’ and ‘reported 12/15/20111 03:00am. I brought him in the afternoon of 12/14.

Here are only the figures for things that were abnormal. If anyone can interpret, I would appreciate it:

BLOOD
Total protein 5.1 LOW (Range 5.2-8.8)
AST (SGOT) 416 HIGH (10-100)
ALT (SGPT) 181 HIGH (10-100
Total Bilirubin 4.6 (HIGH) 0.1-04
Phosphorus 1.9 LOW (2.4-8.2)
Glucose 410 HIGH (64-170)
Calcium 7.4 LOW (8.2-10.8)
Sodium 133 LOW (145-158)
Potassium 2.1 LOW (3.4-5.6)
Chloride 72 LOW (104-128)
Cholesterol 243 HIGH (75-220)
Triglycerides 183 (HIGH) 25-160
CPK 1416 HIGH (56-529)
Hematocrit 24.9 LOW (29-48)
MCV 36 LOW (37-61)
MCHC 382 HIGH (30-38)
Platelet Count 185 LOW (200-500)
Neutrophils HIGH 8690 (2500-8500

URINALYSIS
T4 0.7 LOW (0.8-4.0)
Protein 1+ HIGH
Glucose 3+ HIGH
Ketone 3+ HIGH
Bilirubin 2+ HIGH
Blood 2+ HIGH
RBC 11-20 HIGH (0-3)

Are those liver values indicating fatty liver disease from not eating?
His glucose has gotten lower100s-300s since this test I think.

How bad does this look? Hopefully it’s improved from this. So I think I need lots of prayers still. They do not do 24 hr care at this vet. So basically he is unattended in the middle of the night. He said I could transfer him but it would be to a much more expensive place. He said it would probably be $5000 for a week. The vet said I could come visit again tomorrow, but not daily.

Should I make him that liver drink and bring it to him? They said they would give it to him if I did.
Any feedback welcome.

thank you ((((((alll)))))))
Martica

 

Re: Diabetic kitty about to die in NYC shelter--pls help ass

Yes, some of those values do show liver distress. Given he isn't eating well on his own, you should talk with them about whether they are helping him to eat--finger or syringe feeding--and whether it would be prudent to put in an Esophageal feeding tube (an E-tube). The not eating is a serious part of DKA, and many DKA cats do have trouble with fatty liver.

 

Re: Diabetic kitty about to die in NYC shelter--pls help ass

"I was able to stay with the kitty for one hour and kiss him and pet him and talk to him." -- Oh, Martica, I'm so glad you were able to spend time with Shane and to show him some love. That dear little guy needs all kinds of help, but I think feeling loved is so important for him. Thank you, Martica...wish I had $5,000 to send to you for caring for this precious, forgotten kitty. {{{Martica and Shane}}} Will you get to see Shane every day now?

And I agree with Venita about those elevated liver enzymes being a real concern. I'd want to know how much food they're getting Shane to eat. An E-tube might become a necessity. When you talk to the vet again, please ask about that.

Thanks for the update, Martica. It's good to hear that Shane is stable. We'll be looking forward to better news that Shane's improving.

Take care,
Eva

 

Re: Diabetic kitty about to die in NYC shelter--pls help ass

UPDATE on SHANE TOdAY- SAturday 6pm--17 Dec:
I was able to be with Shane for 2 hours today and he was a million times better! Apparently his bloodwork from last night is not hugely better, but his demeanor was. Not only was he perkier and standing and trying to walk (off the vet table but he couldn't because of his IV) and totally alert and responsive, he was PURRING the entire time! And head butting and kneading with his paws! He clearly felt much much better and looked content. SUCH a difference from last night! He had eaten on his own today apparently, and a good amount. And when I was with one of the vet techs had some chicken and he ate a couple of small pieces (but didn't want more). At that time his blood sugar was 97, a little low for more liking but when I left they were going to feed him. So I'm much better since he is!

I posted some pictures on my Facebook page. Don't kow how to post them on here.

thank you everyone for all your support.

 

Re: Diabetic kitty about to die in NYC shelter--pls help ass

Yayyyy! Go Martica & Shane! I'm so glad Shane finally has some love in his life!
Avery

 

Re: Diabetic kitty about to die in NYC shelter--pls help ass

:RAHCAT :RAHCAT :RAHCAT

 

Re: Diabetic kitty about to die in NYC shelter--pls help ass

Martica, what lovely news about dear little Shane! Your love for that precious little cat has got to be helping with his progress. Thank you for taking care of that sweet little guy. Loved seeing his photos on Facebook...my hubby was looking over my shoulder and said, "Shane's perking up".

Are Shane's electrolytes and liver enzyme numbers looking any better? As Shane starts eating more and feeling better in general, maybe those numbers will improve.

Thanks for your wonderful update on Shane, Martica.

Take care,
Eva

 

Re: Diabetic kitty about to die in NYC shelter--pls help ass

Thank you for the update. I am so happy Shane is doing better. I am still praying for him.

Pattie

 

Re: Diabetic kitty about to die in NYC shelter--pls help ass

fantastic news, I'm so happy!

 

UPDATE on SHANE from Sunday 18 Dec

Thank you for all your support and prayers! I wasn't able to see Shane yesterday (Sunday), but a friend of Anjellicle's and the vets was. This is the report she sent to me:

"Quick follow-up - went and visited, and the techs said he's doing extremely well considering how he came in and said his transformation was "magical." I gave him some extra pets and rubs and he is SO SWEET! I gave him an extra blanket (I'm not supposed to touch but was extremely careful) and while I was placing it he kept trying to head but my hand! So, so sweet and mushy and gentle and kind. Definitely older - I wonder if older than 10. (That, or not well taken care of until now, or both . What an angel sweetheart!"

So really awesome news. I dropped off some Merrick and Nature's Variety cans today for them to give to him. Am hoping to be able to see him tonight. Hope he's eating regularly now.

 

Re: Diabetic kitty about to die in NYC shelter--pls help ass

God bless you for loving this kitty. I wish I could help with his Vet bill. I can only afford prayers and you have them.
jeanne

 

Re: Rescued and Loved Kitty

Hi, Martica ~

I'm loving your reports on dear little Shane! "So, so sweet and mushy and gentle and kind." -- Martica, have you been able to visit Shane lately? Thank you for caring about this precious little guy the way you do.

Take care,
Eva

 

Re: Diabetic kitty about to die in NYC shelter--pls help ass

Hi Eva and everyone,

Thank you for all your support, it really means a lot and is so helpful. It's a little scary getting back into the 24/7 care of a diabetic kitty and now I'm gearing up for it. I visited Shane on Monday night and he was doing GREAT. I posted pics on my Facebook wall if anyone wants to have a look--Martica Heaner on fb.

He gobbled up a can and 1/2 of food I gave him, was purring, alert and overall acting more like a normal, not so sick, kitty.

I have not seen any bloodwork on anything, this vet and their staff and not very communicative and it's hard to keep calling and bug them. But I did get a call yesterday from the receptionist asking me to bring in Lantus. So Venita has kindly offered to ship a pen off to them which hopefully they are getting any hour now, while I sort out buying all my inventory of supplies and more insulin.

I take that to mean that they are going to switch Shane over and that means I get to bring him home in a couple of days. This morning I dropped off a letter to the vet plus a bunch of back up research-study evidence for him to review in case he's not familiar with Lantus (and my impression is that he is not). I asked him to start Shane on 0.5 U BID. So hopefully he will be conservative and do that.

Wish I knew more about the bloods, but I just don't. I will either be able to see him tonight or tomorrow night hopefully.

thank you all, and thank Rebecca for having this lifesaving site, and to Venita for all her kindness, expertise and help.

martica

 

Re: Diabetic kitty about to die in NYC shelter--pls help ass

this warms my heart! I am so happy to hear Shane is doing so well and that he might be coming home soon, and to such a loving home!

 

Re: Diabetic kitty about to die in NYC shelter--pls help ass

Good Morning, Martica ~

Your photo on Facebook: Loved seeing Shane Sebastian licking his lips after eating lots of food! What an adorable, lovely little guy he is. And what a lovely person you are for taking care of and loving him the way you do, Martica. What a wonderful gift it would be if you could take him home for Christmas.

Thinking of you and Shane today.

Hugs,
Eva

 

Re: Diabetic kitty about to die in NYC shelter--pls help ass

Sure would like to see a couple of pictures here - I don't do facebook any more as I've had 2 virus' attempted to download from that site. This warms my heart....

BUT sure do wish you'd edit your ORIGINAL message and remove the '911'. Change it to a heart or something....that 911 causes heart attacks!

BIG HUGS and extra pets and thoughts for Shane,

 

Re: Diabetic kitty about to die in NYC shelter--pls help ass

THANK YOU MJ!!!!! Oh he looks SO much better!!!! There's something special about that cat....

BIG HUGE HUG!!!!

 

Re: Diabetic kitty about to die in NYC shelter--pls help ass

I've posted a new picture of Shane on my Facebook wall and here is his latest update--visited him tonight. I also sent the photo to Venita so maybe she'll post it on the DCIN blog she did for Shane.

PDATE ON SHANE- FRIDAY 23 DEC -8pm: Here is Shane tonight. It was pretty impossible to get even this one picture because he was moving around so much--meowing and wanting to walk on the floor and jump off the table! Back to normal scaredy-cat behavior. But he was purring and sweet and very strong, despite being so darn skinny. His eyes look amazing--sooooo much better. He had a little rough ridged area on his right eyelid before but that seems to be totally gone now. His fur was shinier and he just needs to put on about 7 pounds and he'll be fine! One of the vet techs told me that everytime she comes in he rubs against his cage and is so sweet and a joy for them to have there. He is bone thin, though. Gotten fatten this little guy up. The insulin should help. Dr G said I could bring him home on Monday.

 

Re: Diabetic kitty about to die in NYC shelter--pls help ass

Hi, Martica ~

Shane's so very precious. He's looking good. I know you'll be so glad, Martica, to get your little guy home on Monday. I'm sure he'll start putting on the pounds once you get his diabetes regulated with insulin and continue to feed him well. That darling little guy will thrive under your loving care. He's already starting to. Thank you for loving Shane right from the beginning, Martica...beautiful!

Take care,
Eva

 

Re: Diabetic kitty about to die in NYC shelter--pls help ass

I don't do Facebook, either.

Sure would like to see some pictures here.

So happy Shane has been rescued for Christmas !!!

 

Re: Diabetic kitty about to die in NYC shelter--pls help ass

There are new pictures of Shane on his DCIN Blog page. http://fdmb-cin.blogspot.com/2011/12/shane-in-ny.html

 

Re: Diabetic kitty about to die in NYC shelter--pls help ass

Thanks Venita. Shane does look better, even if way too thin.

Shane is getting a loving home for Christmas !!!!

 

Re: Diabetic kitty in NYC shelter--Updates below, getting be

Martic, he looks fantastic compared to his original picture. I do not understand why he cannot come home today......no one is going to be there all day Sunday except to do meds whereas he could spend all day with you if he was allowed to go home.

 

Re: Diabetic kitty in NYC shelter--Updates below, getting be

He's looking so much better, he'll be gorgeous with some more weight on him. I sure hope you get to bring him home soon

 

Re: Diabetic kitty in NYC shelter--Updates below, getting be

HUGS Shane! U iz lookin' MUCH bedder - not wonderful yet but SO much bedder! MamaBean will get you all well again!

HUGS Martica!!!

 

Re: Diabetic kitty in NYC shelter--Updates below, getting be

Thanks so much for adding Shanes picture here. My computer wont load fb so it's good to see Shane here.

 

Re: Diabetic kitty in NYC shelter--Updates below, getting be

Well thought things were getting better but now a new concern. Please everyone weigh in on the scenario tonite. Here is the scenario, please let me know if I am misinterpreting the situation--and how Lantus works. This is an excerpt from a letter I wrote to the rescue group head explaining the situation

________

I was at the vet's. I"m home and now I'm even more concerned. I tried to take Shane home and they wouldn't let me without the head of the rescue group's permission (because at the moment I"m only technically the foster). And she is traveling, tried voicemail and text but didn't get a reply in the time I had (about 5 minutes because they were closing) to hear from her. Here is the note I just wrote

______________________________________________________________________________________
I was at the vet's for nearly 4 hours tonight, waiting because the vet had told me Friday night I could take Shane hoome on Monday.

They started the new insulin on Friday night (3 days ago). I gave the vet the research (academic journal articles) and the dosing protocol that was recommended by a vet association, and asked him to start with a conservative dose-- 0.5 unit BID. I told him (and the literature said, too) that you must stick to this dose for 3 days before increasing because there is also an overlap effect that occurs wiith this long dose and specific insulin. ON Friday night he was very interested in the studies I brought him, they were from past 2 years and said he didn't know about them (they were comparing cats on PZ--his kind of insulin, to Lantus--the kind I want to use). Cats are more likely to go into remission with the Lantus.

Anyway, without boring you with too many details. Tonight when I finally was able to see him, he told me that Shane' numbers had been super high (blood glucose) but they'd increased the dose 2-3 times and this is only a 6 lb. cat ( I weighed hiim tonight) This is way too much.

He said they brought the numbers down to the 300s (high but kind of ok) (375 at 2pm today) and he said they wanted to regulate a bit more before letting him go home. I reluctantly said ok, although at this stage, the regulating is a nuanced procedure and going higher with the insulin dose is not the answer.

Anyway, then i was able to visit with Shane and the vet tech came and took his bg. IT was 'hi' which means super high--like 600s or higher--bad. So the triple dose was the not answer, this proved it.

Then I found out that they were ONLY taking blood glucose at 8am 2pm and 8pm...then nothing at 2am because no one is there overnight...then 8am again. So basically they are completely missing the nadir. They should be doing curves--which are BG readings every 2 or 3 hours.

Also, I found out that they were ONLY feeding him at the shot time--so 8am and 8pm...so when he's reaching his lowest BG level--his nadir--he is getting NO food. And if he's high when they shoot the insulin and then they feed him it shoots him even higher and the insulin takes 4 hours or more to do anything...and by that point it's super high--and then he's starved because he gets no food, and so chances are he's going into hypoglycemia--and bouncing way back up again--this is called the Somogyi effect.

When the vet first told me that he had gone HI in the BGs, I said it sounds like a somogyi effect, he said no I dont think so. But since they are ONLY blood testing 1 time during the 12 hour insulin phase, and NONE at the other over-night phase--he has NO WAY of knowing.

When I realized during the visiting period with Shane (which was a while later after meeting with the vet) what they were doing I decided I wanted to take him home. He was high, they were about to feed him and give him too much insulin, then leave him alone all night. The one girl said that Id have to get your permission and sign that against-medical-advice waiver and I said fine. We couldn't reach you and they finally said well we're closing we can't wait (meanwhile it was 8:45 pm I'd been there since 5pm). The vet was in surgery at this point so I could not speak to him.

So, anyway, I had to leave and I am very worried about Shane. They do not know how to handle this insulin, they are treating it like the short acting kind, which I specifically gave them the info not to. I was being diplomatic and everything but I'm very very concerned and want to take him home. They are not monitoring him in the way they should nor feeding nor dosing they way they should. Most vets do not know the nuances of the daily care of treating diabetes. As long as he doesn't have ketones, he's out of harm.

anyway, I guess i need your permission to take him tomorrow but I really do not want to leave him another night. Unfortunately I work, teaching a fitness class until 8:30pm tomorrow, so unless I can get him early in the day, around lunchtime, I'm not sure I can collect him at night since I think they close at 6 or 7 on Tues?

could you please email or call giving me permssion to get him tomorrow?

I'm very worried about him tonight,, they are giving him way too much insulin. They didn't give the first dose a chance and didn't feed him at the right time.

anyway, despite that he's looking good although he was very agitated tonight, which is what can happen when BG is high, they feel bad. But he was still purring.
______________________________________

now I"m worried about him all night.

PS. the head of the rescue group has now given me permission to collect him tomorrow; also I emailed the vet--not sure if he check's emails though--explaining a little of the story...

 

Re: Diabetic kitty in NYC shelter--Updates below, getting be

I will be praying for both of you today..

 

Re: Diabetic kitty in NYC shelter--Updates below, getting be

Oh, Martica...you've got to get Shane out of there right away! That vet and his techs just don't understand how Lantus works. I'm very, very worried (as I know you are) that they'll overdose Shane and cause a hypo when there's no one around to help him. PLEASE take him home as soon as you possibly can, Martica. And that sweet furguy needs to eat...lots of mini-meals throughout the day. It's quite likely that some of those bg highs are from rebound hyperglycemia caused by too much insulin. As you've mentioned, Lantus doses should be held for several days, not increased the way that vet's doing it.

Gosh, I'm so worried about both of you now, Martica. Please keep in touch to let us know when you can take Shane home where you can give him much better and safer care.

Eva

 

Re: Diabetic kitty in NYC shelter--Updates below, getting be

Hi Eva
Thanks for your response. Part of what I need is reassurance that I'm am thinking it's wrong and that I'm correct in doing so--it's still nervewracking to go against what a vet says....the good news is that I got the news from the head of the rescue group that I could take him out, she gave her permission, and she apparently left a message for them late last night to that effect. But I was worried about him all night, woke up smack dab at 3am worrying, and that would be right about the time he'd be hypoing if he was. So hopefully that wasn't a premonition or anything.

I haven't done the insulin thing for over a year now since Fred died so a little scary to trust my own judgement again.

So next concern, hopefully he's ok and I can get him at lunch--is that I need to figure out what to do for his next dose tonight. Hopefully they did NOT raise the dose even more last night, but anyway, consideirng that he is on up to 2 units Lantus BID now...should I bring him back to 1/2 U or what? anyway, gotta go to work but will report back later.

thanks again for all your help
martica

 

Re: Diabetic kitty in NYC shelter--Updates below, getting be

Also, there is a diabetic kitty that needs a temporary foster for 3 weeks--in NYC area, or sourrounding. If anyone can do it let me know and I"ll pass on the info. I told them to contact Venita and also post here. I think I'm overwhelmed with what I'm about to take on to deal with another.

 

Re: Diabetic kitty in NYC shelter--Updates below, getting be

Hoping you can get Shane today - he looks so much better. I'll bet with the Lantus you can get him into remission in no time like I did with Cedric. I bought an autofeeder for Cedric so that he gets 4 small meals a day. the stray I rescued has one 2 and is on the same schedule (although he apparently told cjleo that he thinks Cedric gets better food - they get the same stuff). cedric went into remission after a month on Lantus.

Good luck, keep us posted and God bless you!

 

Re: Diabetic kitty in NYC shelter--Updates below, getting be

Martica, I'm so relieved that you'll be taking Shane home today. It would be really helpful to know what kind of blood glucose readings the vet and his techs were getting before starting Lantus. If the vet won't give that information to you, Martica, maybe the head of the rescue group can obtain Shane's blood glucose readings prior to starting Lantus. From what I recall, you mentioned some fairly normal, or at least not extremely high, numbers. If that's the case, it makes me think even more that Shane's current highs could be caused by Lantus overdosing.

For a cat that's had DKA as Shane has, you do need to be sure that you're giving sufficient Lantus. What is the current dose that the vet has Shane on? Maybe more experienced Lantus users could suggest a new starting dose for Shane, Martica.

Hang in there,
Eva

P.S. Could the head of the rescue group get copies of all of Shane's medical records for you? Heck, you're paying for the treatment Shane's received, so you should have that information.

 

Re: Diabetic kitty in NYC shelter--Updates below, getting be

oh my goodness, what an awful surprise. The vet upped the dose to 2.5 U this morning. I was just posting on the Lantus tight regulation board an hour ago just to get some feedback on dosing the next shot, and I happened to be taking all the numbers down and took a +6.5 and discovered--WHOA--a hypo. Unbelievable... He was 39. I fi I had not got him from the vet they would have seen his +4 number, 200 something and thought they were doing the right thing--and they werne't feeding him for the next 12 hours!!!!!! He was still 39 even though I'd given him some chicken!

I then fed him some BG, nearly a whole 5 oz can and he was 35 at 45 minutes later. I've now given him some Nutrical and a can of Solstice pumpkin and chicken which is higher in carbs I think--could not find it on Binky's chart but it has tapioca starch as an ingredient, the gravy, I think, and looks like he's slurped up a lot of the gravy. I'm doing a BG shortly, but here is the early post with earlier number. Wow, talk about a welcome back into caring for a diabetic kitty.

here are his numbers since 12/21 (past 6 days) (I wasn't given records prior to that)

Wed-21 Dec:
+0 8am BG 351 given 2U of ProZinc, fed low carb canned (good brands I brought or DM/they switched between them)
+6 2pm BG 96
+12 8pm BG 387 2U ProZinc, fed
- no food between say 8:30pm and 8am and no monitoring

Thu-22 Dec:
+12 8am - BG HI 2U ProZinc, fed
+3 11am- BG 483
+6 2pm- BG 131
+12 8pm- BG 399, 2U ProZinc, fed
- no food between say 8:30pm and 8am and no monitoring

Fri-23 Dec
+12 8am- BG 453, 2U ProZinc, fed
+6 2pm- BG 174
+12 8pm- BG 389 , 2U ProZinc, fed
- no food between say 8:30pm and 8am and no monitoring

Sat 24 Dec
+12 8am- BG 124 (says 'Amtrack was on 4' (not sure what that means), 1/2 U Lantus, fed
+6 2pm- BG 196
+12 8pm- BG HI 2U ProZinc (switched back), fed

Sun 25 Dec
+12 8am- BG HI, gave 1U Lantus, fed
+6 no montoring
+12 8pm- BG HI, gave 1.5U Lantus, fed

Mon 26 Dec
+12 8am- BG 346, gave 1.5U Lantus, fed
+6 2pm- BG 375
+12 8pm- BG HI, gave 2U Lantus, fed

Tues 27 Dec
+12 8am - BG 302, gave 2.5U Lantus, fed
+4 12pm- BG 214
+5 1pm- I gave him a few Halo live a littles chicken treats and a couple of small pieces of fresh chicken breast roasted
+6.5 2:30pm--HYPO BG 39--am feeding now--ate nearly a 5.5 oz can of BG quail and chicken
+7.25 3:15pm HYPO BG 35 gave some Nutrical plus Solstice pumpkin & chicken

 

Re: Diabetic kitty in NYC shelter--Updates below, getting be

I am so glad he is in your care now !

Are you going to inform the vet of this development ?

 

Re: Diabetic kitty in NYC shelter--Updates below, getting be

Yes, I"m very very pissed. I gave him the academic literature supporting my wish to start low and give it a chance...and they ignored, and they did not listen to me about the feeding etc. Very very upsetting. I can't think about it now till his BGs are back up But I'm going to use this as an educational moment--and prepare a whole packet for them so they learn from it. Not that I have the time for that. I'm furious I have to say. I've ust wasted my entire day too, had so much work to catch up on. The irony is that I had to sign a WAIVER saying that I was taking the cat home AGAINST THE VET's ADVICE!! Like this kitty was safer with them! arrrggh.....and last night they wouldn't even let me taken him--assuming that he is safer in the vet ALONE all night with no food on a double dose. :cry:

 

Re: Diabetic kitty in NYC shelter--Updates below, getting be

Yes, I"m very very pissed. I gave him the academic literature supporting my wish to start low and give it a chance...and they ignored, and they did not listen to me about the feeding etc. Very very upsetting. I can't think about it now till his BGs are back up But I'm going to use this as an educational moment--and prepare a whole packet for them so they learn from it. Not that I have the time for that. I'm furious I have to say. I've ust wasted my entire day too, had so much work to catch up on. The irony is that I had to sign a WAIVER saying that I was taking the cat home AGAINST THE VET's ADVICE!! Like this kitty was safer with them! arrrggh.....and last night they wouldn't even let me taken him--assuming that he is safer in the vet ALONE all night with no food on a double dose. :cry:

ok good news

+8.25 4:15pm he is now 56...so he's gone up about 20 units in one hour...

phew. not out of the woods yet, but looking better.

 

Re: Diabetic kitty in NYC shelter--Updates below, getting be

Martica, I'm just so thankful that you stepped in to get Shane when you did today!!! And that this low bg number didn't happen when Shane was alone there overnight, although who knows how low that darling kitty went last night. OMG! My husband, Ken, and I have been so very worried about you and Shane all day, Martica.

That vet just shouldn't have agreed to start Shane on Lantus if he wasn't prepared to read the materials you gave him and to learn how to dose it properly. How irresponsible and scary!!!

I haven't been to the Lantus board yet, but I'm sure someone there is telling you to be sure to test Shane for ketones. I've come to love Shane as you and many others here have, too, Martica. I know that you'll do wonders for that precious kitty as he gets settled in with you and you get him regulated on Lantus. Bless your kind heart for loving and taking care of Shane!

Hugs,
Eva

 

Re: Diabetic kitty in NYC shelter--Updates below, getting be

Hi Eva,
You are so sweet thank you, and thank you all. This board really is such a great source of emotional support and knowledge! I really am indebted!

So here is the comment I left on the Lantus area thread. I don't know if I should consolidate to one, if so, not sure which one? The link to that one is this?

________________________________
Thank you all for all your comments and caring! This board really is the greatest.

OK, I had to leave and no one to watch him, but I put some Nutrical in his food and he actually was eating more of the Soltice when I left. Actually, it's Solstice, I spelled it wrong up above. I couldn't find it on any lists. But it has a bit of gravy so I figure that's more carby.

OK the good news:

7:30pm
*11 and he is 209 !!!!!! woo hoo! Of course, if the vet were taking this, he would see it be, oh, 250 in an hour and think--OH YES, 2.5 Units IS THE RIGHT DOSE. meanwhile, repeated hypos day after day.

OK, so he had very little carbs really. He pretty much ate 2 full cans of 5.5 oz low carb, high protein food, plus just a bit of NutriCal....so that is maybe the best scenario?

The big question...should I give him a 1/2 unit tonight at 8pm? or 9pm? or at all? sort of afraid to.....but then again, with a small dose it should be safe right? Not sure I understand how this past week might have affected his shed...or if he has one...can anyone enlighten me? I'm going to post this on the other thread too...maybe I should consolidate somehow.


thank you!!!!! feeling much better. He's purring. I have not checked for ketones. I have not seen him use the bathroom yet. Oh, is that meter that Sienne mentioned the Precision Xtra, does that do BG AND ketones in the blood? I guess if so I should just totally switch to that then (even though I've just spent $150 on test strips. I'm behind on meter technology, still using my old OTU.

are we out of the woods? should I feel safe? I will continue to monitor but sounds like things ok...he is still occasionally nibbling on the remnants of his food. I think he's pleased because they were literally starving him at the vet. He appears to have lost weight there--if the shelter weighing was correct. They had him at 7.2 lbs. After 10 days of the vet he was 6.5 last night.

OH, and when I came home, Shane had escaped from my office (it's a sliding door, no way to lock in from the outside) and he was mingling with my cats--one of them was hissing. I was trying to separate them. Might be a lost cause, there's a big desire to see what's on the other side of the door for all of them.
________________________________

 

Re: Diabetic kitty in NYC shelter--Updates below, getting be

Good Morning, Martica and Shane ~

Hope today is starting out a bit easier for the two of you, Martica. I know you're getting some good advice on the Lantus board. You're going to wear yourself out trying to post about Shane on both boards when you already have your hands full taking care of that dear little guy. Since getting some Lantus dosing advice/support is your priority for Shane now and you'll likely be posting daily on the Lantus TR board, maybe you can just post the link to your Lantus board discussion thread here. That way, anyone following what's happening with you and Shane (and there are many of us) can read your Lantus board postings.

I believe you've mentioned that you have a One Touch meter that you've already bought new strips for. That's a good meter, Martica, so I'd stick with it even if you do buy one of the ketone testing meters, too. My husband and I have a Precision Xtra meter that we use only for ketone testing. There's also a less expensive meter, the Nova Max, which tests both glucose and ketones. American Diabetes Wholesale has a pretty good deal on a Nova Max kit:
http://www.americandiabeteswholesale.com/product/nova-max-plus-glucose-ketone-meter-kit_3400.htm
And CVS Pharmacy has Nova Max ketone test strips for one of the cheaper prices I've seen: http://www.cvs.com/CVSApp/catalog/s...kuId=832606&productId=832606&_requestid=10285

Some members are having trouble pushing the Nova Max ketone strips into the meter, so you might ask about that here first. Several members are using it successfully though and can help with it. Of course, the urine ketone strips are the least expensive if you're able to test Shane for ketones that way.

What a harrowing, but beautiful, ride you've been on with darling Shane, Martica! Thanks for taking us all along with you.

Wishing you and Shane a great day,
Eva

P.S. "OH, and when I came home, Shane had escaped from my office (it's a sliding door, no way to lock in from the outside) and he was mingling with my cats--one of them was hissing. I was trying to separate them. Might be a lost cause, there's a big desire to see what's on the other side of the door for all of them." -- I LOVE how curious and active little Shane is! And your other kitties, too.

 

Re: Diabetic kitty in NYC shelter--Updates below, getting be

Here's what's happening with Martica and Shane on the Lantus TR board...

 

Re: Diabetic kitty in NYC shelter--Updates below, getting be

thanks eva for that info. Actually last night I went on ebay and got a precision ultra meter for $16 plus postage. Figured might as well. I didn't get the ketone strips for it yet though. I still have not been able to catch him peeing and he has a little worse diarrhea. He's now in hiding and I can't find him. At least I can get some work done, but he's due for an ear test pretty soon so I can see if he got anything at all and if the 0.25 did get in if it's going to make a difference at all. I guess he must be feeling bad too and that's explaining his growling hissing behavior, or maybe it's just the other cats Who knows, you'd think he'd be thrilled to be out of the shelter and the vet cages!

OK, so yes, I'll just go ahead and post on the Lantus thread--link in comment just above (thank you eva)

thank you all and a million thanks too to Venita who's been such a godsend. Let's hope things get easier!

 

Re: Diabetic kitty in NYC shelter--Updates below, getting be

Hi, Martica ~

Been thinking about you and Sebastian lately and wondering how everything's going. If you stop in, we'd all love to hear how you two are doing now.

Take care,
Eva

 

Re: Diabetic kitty in NYC shelter--Updates below, getting be

Just came across my old thread from last year. Sebastian (Shane) is doing fantastic. He is now 12 lbs. He doubled his body weight. He is being regulated on 0.25U Lantus only once a day. I am not tightly regulating him because I just can't deal with it right now, but he's staying int he 200s one one shot a day.

The chronic diarrhea he had from Dec-March is totally controlled by giving him a little bit of raw with his canned regular low carb meals.

He just had a long-put-off dental this week--had 3 awful teeth pulled. I'm hoping with paws crossed that we get even lower numbers as a result, he def. had tooth resorption and chronic infection.

He's happy, purring a lot, bullying my other cats a bit, but that is getting better. More importantly, he wasn't murdered by the shelter, and he is now getting experience that humans are kind and loving--not the piece of sh** owners who left him to wither and die untreated. He still gets a little scared when I hold him. But he is very affectionate and must be with me at my side at all times. Things are good with him. He is learning to trust again.

Thanks for all the support last year, I really needed it. I never intended to get a new diabetic kitty after Fred night so soon (1 year later) but once you have the skills and knowhow in helping these kitties it's probably morally wrong not to use them!

 

Re: Diabetic kitty in NYC shelter--Updates below, getting be

Wonderful news!