Diabetic Neuropathy/BG Regulation Need Help

Hi My name is Michelle and I am writing about Charlie. My 15 year old diabetic cat. I've had him since he was 3 days old. He was rejected from the litter and I rescued him. He' was diabnosed with diabetes 5 months and just developed neorothapy and he went completley limp going on 4 days. I've read Jasper's story regarding how well Jasper responded to Methylcobalnin. I just started giving Methyl B12 to Charlie (he's on day 2). Does anyone have experience with neurothapy this severe? Is there hope that he will recover? Please share your experiences with me. I am in a difficult situation and I don't want to give up but also don't want Charlie to suffer. Thank You for advice. Michelle :sad:

 

Re: Diabetic Neuropathy Diagnosis-Need HELP

Is he on insulin? have you taken him to a vet sence he went limp? What are you feeding him? and is there any other information you can give people here that you think is important to know aobut your cat and how you are careing for him at home.

I personaly have had no occurances of whats happeing to your cat but knowing the answers to these questions could possibly help the people who will be comming in soon to better help you. I really hope he gets better and regains proper leg function.

 

Re: Diabetic Neuropathy Diagnosis-Need HELP

Yes. he is on insulin. I check it myself very often to make sure he is regulated. He takes 1.5 units a day. I've been trying to keep his BG under 250 as much as possible. I am very new to neruopathy. He eats Natura Cat food (dry) which is the lowest in carbs of any cat food I found. He is still drinking and eating. I am very new to this myself. 4 days ago I noticed when he walked he stopped in the hallway to rest then got up and walked to his water bowl and couldn't keep himself up. I immediately took him to the emergency. He was there for one day and I picked him up and he could no longer stand. His vet checked is blood work and all his organs are completly normal. He rulled everythig out and diagnosed him with diabetic neurpathy. He said there was nothing more I could do so I searched the web and found Jasper's story which sounded exactly like what Charlie had. The site recommed Methylcoblanin (methyl B12) so I just started giving it to him. He is just on day two but I have yet to see improvement. The site as well as the doctor said that it was from him not being regulated. The vet said try and regulate him and try the Methyl B12 because at this point there was nothing he could do for me.

 

Re: Diabetic Neuropathy Diagnosis-Need HELP

My Harley had it but not as severe, the Methyl B-12 did help but it takes awhile to see the improvement.

What insulin are you using? Are you keeping track of his blood glucose numbers?

Have you thought about changing to a wet low carb food, it is much better for a diabetic cat.

 

Re: Diabetic Neuropathy Diagnosis-Need HELP

my guy has neuropathy also...we're trying MB12, massage, etc...but what i have gathered from the experts here is that 1. it takes time, and 2. regulation is key...

there are a lot of people here with a lot of knowledge...i'm a newbie, so i dont give advice, but you'll get some input from some great folks here...

good luck!

celi & binks

 

Re: Diabetic Neuropathy Diagnosis-Need HELP

Houdini had neuropathy, not quite that bad but walking on his hocks. It does take time with the Methyl B12 as well as getting the BG's down. One kitty at my vets office had his hind legs completely splayed out and couldn't stand at all....the Methyl B12 and insulin regulation worked a charm and gradually he was walking again.

Be patient it does take time......

 

Re: Diabetic Neuropathy Diagnosis-Need HELP

I'm not an expert in this area by any means, but I question whether a cat who is kept under 250 can go suddenly limp from neuropathy. Were his potassium levels checked? any chance he threw a clot and/or had a stroke?

Jen

 

Re: Diabetic Neuropathy Diagnosis-Need HELP

Thank you all for your responses. It is so comforting knowing that I am not the only one going through this with their best companion. The neurothapy may have started graduall becuase I did notice he was walking a bit strange but his paralysis came very sudden. Tuesday he was fine and by Thurs. he could not walk or stand. Before this happend, I only gave him insulin if his numbers were below 250; otherwise, I waited until 280 to give him Lantus. I did this because I had a really bad scare where I almost lost him which was so scary and had it not been for this site I would have lost him. Now I am trying my hardest to keep him better regtulated. I give him Lantus twice a day in the morning and at night. I am targeting to keep his numbers BG within 100-180 but it is extremely difficult. His curve yesterday looked like this so I am being more aggressive. By using 2.5 units
4:30 367 1.5 untis
9:30 201
3:30 305 1/5 units
9:00 180

 

Re: Diabetic Neuropathy Diagnosis-Need HELP

Oh, please don't raise the dose like that. Read the stickies at the top of the Lantus forum viewforum.php?f=9.

Please, please, please read those stickies and post for help in that forum or this one. Lantus is more complicated than vets lead you to believe.

Sorry to be short, but I gotta go and I hope this will bump you up and get more eyes on your post--maybe you can edit it to say "need help with Lantus" or something similar.

 

Re: Diabetic Neuropathy Diagnosis-Need HELP

I did not consider a stroke. I will touch base with the vet to see if his potasium levels were checked.

 

Re: Diabetic Neuropathy Diagnosis-Need HELP

I will check the Lantus forum to seek guidance on the proper dosage. I will stick withthe 1.5 until I investigate further. I am still knew to all that is available in this site.
I don't think it was a stroke because I've really struggled getting him regulated. He got a bacterial infection a month ago and his numbers were sky high. I got him to down to the 250-300 range for about two weeks.

 

Does anyone have information on cat's regaining how to walk from a stroke or from neuropathy? Please share your experiences with me. I really want Charlie to walk again. This experience has been extremely difficult for me and especially on Charlie. He is a troper and has been so graceful throughout this entire ordeal.

 

See this link viewtopic.php?f=28&t=24801&p=249488&hilit=rambo+neuropathy#p249488

and

http://www.felinediabetes.com/weak-back-rear-legs.htm

There used to be a progression of pics somewhere but I can't find that page. It can be reversed or at least vastly improved if that is what it is. As far as I know, methyl b-12 is not going to be detrimental in anyway, so I'd certainly add it.

 

Lantus needs to be given in a certain fashion but most important is to give the same dose every day, twice.
Here are the sticky info sheets for you to read:
Tight Regulation Protocol
LANTUS & LEVEMIR – INSULIN DEPOT –AKA- STORAGE SHED
Lantus&Levemir – Data Ready to Shoot Low Numbers

Most people are tracking the BG numbers on a google spreadsheet so that it's easy to see by all and to allow others to give helpful suggestions on dose etc. You can click on the links in my signature to see the sheets I keep for my two cats. It's also very helpful for you to see the patterns in the numbers.

The main guidelines for dosing with Lantus / Levemir:
"General" Guidelines:

--- Hold the initial starting dose for 5 - 7 days (10 - 14 cycles) unless the numbers tell you otherwise. Kitties experiencing high flat curves or prone to ketones may want to increase the starting dose after 3 days (6 cycles).

--- Each subsequent dose is held for a minimum of 3 days (6 cycles) unless kitty earns a reduction (See: Reducing the dose...).

--- Adjustments to dose are based on nadirs with only some consideration given to preshot numbers.


Increasing the dose...
--- Hold the dose for 3 - 5 days (6 - 10 cycles) if nadirs are less than 200 before increasing the dose.

--- After 3 consecutive days (6 cycles)... if nadirs are greater than 200, but less than 300 increase the dose by 0.25 unit.

--- After 3 consecutive days (6 cycles)... if nadirs are greater than 300 increase the dose by 0.5 unit.


Reducing the dose...
--- If kitty drops below 40 (long term diabetic) or 50 (newly diagnosed diabetic) reduce the dose by 0.25 unit. If kitty has a history of not holding reductions well or if reductions are close together... sneak the dose down by shaving the dose rather than reducing by a full quarter unit. Alternatively, at each newly reduced dose... try to make sure kitty maintains numbers in the normal range for seven days before reducing the dose further.

--- If an attempted reduction fails, go right back up to the last good dose.

--- Try to go from 0.25u to 0.1u before stopping insulin completely.


Random Notes...
Because of the cumulative nature of Lantus and Levemir:
An early shot = a dose increase.
A late shot = a dose reduction.

A "cycle" refers to the period of time between shots. There are 2 cycles in one day when shooting twice a day.

Sometimes a dose will need to be "fine tuned" by adding some "fat" or "skinny-ing up" the dose.

By seeing the above guidelines, you can understand the comment about increasing the dose too aggressively. Also, it's very important to stick to the 12/12 for giving shots, with room for maybe a 15min diff either way if needed.

Please ask all questions you may have, many here can help you get the answers.

 

I am removing the rainbow from your post. We are accustomed to seeing that when a cat has gone to the rainbow bridge (that is, has passed).

 

All- Thank you for the advice. I am so new to the message board and didn't realize what the icons meant so thank you for removing the rainbow. The links are great and I have a lot of reading to do in order to help Charlie. He is on day 3 of the Methyl B12 but still has not been able to stand yet. He is in good spirits. He loves to lay in the sun so I place him there to cheer him up. I have also been massaging his arms and legs. Thank you again for the advice all of you are so Awesome, it is really comforting knowing there are people that care and are willing to help me and Charlie. It brings us a lot of hope!

 

So glad he's feeling better.

I have to say though, if you have the resources, it might be a good idea to take him to another vet. I've never read about neuropathy symptoms so sudden and severe...

 

My cat Nomad was on the brink of dying about a year ago.I had to agrue with the vet who suggested putting him to sleep.Iwouldn't give up on him yet.there are prescription medications for people neuropathy. I don't know if any are approved for use in cats. If you live near an urban area I would check to see if there is a Vet. Neurologist in the area. Good luck and I hope you find some other options.

 

Thank you. I will speak to another vet tommorow and have him review his medical records. I will not bring him because all the vet visits are so tramitic for him. This is the most difficult thing I've had to confront. I have my lows and my highs. I see Charlie and hate seeing him immobile. It breaks my heart. I cry all the time because I keep wondering if I am doing the right thing for him. I look into his eyes and wonder what he is thinking. I tell him that it will be ok and to be strong. I don't want to lose hope but it is devasting to see him like this when last week he was okay and walking around. I feel that he may have neurothapy because he would lay down really slow and his little paws would shake when he walked around the house. This was happening for that last 3 month but who know it may have been a stroke. I feel guilty I didn't do more reasearch on this. Then I wonder if something happened at the vet that caused his symptoms to worsen because he seemed worse when he got out. He was under observation for 5 hours and had to be seddated because he isn't friendly at the vets. I wonder how much longer he can tolerate being like this since it has only ben 5 days and it seems like an eternity. I was fortunate to have the time off of work these past few days but I return on Monday. Luckily I have a friend that will feed him while I'm away. Sorry for the long message but I had to get it out.

 

Iwork in the human care field and I have seen some of my human diabetic patients make drastic improvements. Does kitty seem to be trying to move at all? Can he hold up his head or crawl like kittens do? If he is stil trying to be mobil or moving, this would be a more hopeful sign.tell charlie he has plenty of people and cats purring for him.

 

Hi. He can barely move his front paws. He pretty much can't move at all. He can put his head and neck up and move it around. I just read Sergi's Passing post and now I'm wondering if Charlie had blood clot. Charlie just started to loose his appetite and does not drink as much water. I am losing hope quickly. I am starting to wonder if he is being patient waiting for me to let go. I am really in a tough spot where I don't want to give up but I don't want him to suffer either. I am really confused and depressed :YMSIGH:

 

At this point,I would agree with some other readers that this is beyond neuropathy.I don't know the area you live in. Maybe some other readers can suggest a larger vet practice or University vet school clinic. You need a referral to a more comprehensive care setting so you can get a more clear diagnosis. From there you can make a decision.Can another member in her state give her some suggestions?

 

Thank you Jan. I am really contemplating putting Charlie to rest today. I just can't bare it any longer. He wont eat and drink and I can't subject him to the agony of another doctor's visit. He would probably have a heart attack going through that again. It has been so challenging but through all this Charlie has been so graceful and strong. I've left countless messasages for two vets to return my call so we can review his medical history and give me some advice. I'm torn becuase my husband tells me to let him die naturally and not shorten his life. I am so sad but still trying to be strong for him. Thank you again for your support.

 

Yes, it is always a hard decision to make. Sending purrs and prayers.

 

My heart goes out to you. I have to agree that this sounds like something far beyond neuropathy... and I am so sorry that your vets are not responding to your calls. This sounds quite urgent- especially if he is not eating or drinking. If he does not yet have ketoacidosis, he is in danger of heading there. If you cannot get a vet to return your call, or come to your home, I strongly urge you to bundle Charlie up and take him to the nearest ER, as soon as possible. I understand what your husband is saying, but Charlie needs to be helped. He sounds very, very ill. Very sadly, it is possible that he cannot be helped to get better, but he may need your help in other ways that only your heart can decide.

Know that many thoughts and prayers are coming your way. Wishing you strength, wisdom and peace. Wishing gentle comfort to sweet Charlie.

 

Hi Everyone, Today I had to put my little angel to sleep. It was his time and I am at peace with my decision. He went away peacefully at home in my arms. I will forever miss him and treasure the time we had together.

Thank You from the bottom of my heart for all your prayers and support. This is wonderful site with so much love and support for our kitty's. God Bless You all and your furry friends. Love Michelle

 

I am so sorry to read this, but not surprised. Something happened and you have given him the ultimate gift of peace....

Hugs

Jen

 

I'm so very sorry. He is happy and whole again, and even though I know it hurts your heart you did the right thing.

 

I am so very sorry for your loss.
wings_cat

 

Sorry to hear about Charlie.I think part of the problem was you never got a clear diagnosis.He may have also had kidney failure, cancer or some other condition.I am sure you did your best and Charlie had a long, good life.it is never easy to lose anyone, feline or human. You may wish to consider joining the grief support group on this forum.Our thoughts are with you. Jan, Nomad and other kitties

 

I am so so sorry .... it was obviously something beyond the diabetes, and he trusted you to make that one last decision for him. You let love guide you, and you know the decision was right, but it's still the most painful thing we ever have to do for our sweet furbabies.

I give you this one thought to keep:
I am with you still; I do not sleep.
I am a thousand winds that blow,
I am the diamond glints on snow.
I am the sunlight on ripened grain.
I am the gentle autumn rain.
When you awaken in the morning's hush,
I am the swift, uplifting rush
of quiet birds in circled flight.
I am the soft stars that shine at night.
Do not stand by my grave and weep;
I am not there, I do not sleep.
Do not think of me as gone-
I am with you still- in each new dawn.​

My deepest sympathies. Wishing you comfort in your memories of a life well loved.

Fly free, sweet Charlie. You will be missed.

 

((((Michelle)))) I am so very sorry. Fly free, dear Charlie. wings_cat

 

I'm so sorry Michelle for the loss of your dear Charlie.
Fly free little one, till you meet again.
jeanne

 

I'm so sorry to hear about Charlie. He knows you loved him so much.

 

Oh, Michelle, I am so sorry for your loss.

 

I'm so sorry for your loss ... I know you loved Charlie very much .. Fly Free Charlie ...

 

Michelle - so very sorry for your loss ... I read the whole thread, such drama - and your love for Charlie is so completely evident and so very touching. Please rest assured he is now flying free with a joyful heart for the love which surrounded him and which came from you.

 

I'm so sorry for your loss. Until you see your loved one again..

"TWO-MEWROW"
There is I and You, which makes TWO.
In this world where there is so much love and sorrow
It is I, whom must wait for the 'two-mewrow'
In the quiet moments I think I hear your pitter patter in the hall,
I find it wasn't you at all.
For a moment I am lost in sorrow
Then a tear of joy, knowing you are free,
It is I, whom must wait for the 'two-mewrow'.