Dosing Advice

Discussion in 'Prozinc / PZI' started by Adam Flowers, Dec 3, 2017.

  1. Adam Flowers

    Adam Flowers Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2017
    Still trying to determine what dose suits Mogee best. Looking at his SS you can see we started the FF on 11/9. Those greens were nice at first but I believe the numbers were that low because Mogee was getting accustomed to the wet food (had been on dry all his life) and was hardly eating. Plus I believe, since I switched him cold turkey, his stomach was upset and that contributed to eating less as well.

    He had a period of really good blue's but I thought I should raise a bit since it had been over a week since we had seen green.

    I know I have not stayed at a given dose for a long period of time but it looks to me as if Mogee is giving the same numbers at 2 units as he is at 2.75. But once I get to 3 units he gives a green once but then seems to not get as low as he would with the 2 units after a day or so.

    Does it look to anyone like the 3 units is too much and is making his numbers awkward and is dropping too fast causing the rise? Should I stay around 2 for a longer period of time? Or should a stay at 3?

    I know the answer will also depend on PS's but I am just at a loss at the moment on how much insulin he should be getting.

    Thanks for all the help guys!
     
  2. FurBabiesMama

    FurBabiesMama Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2017
    This kind of stuff is SO maddening. It would be nice if the numbers would just make sense. :) I think I would be looking at which dose keeps him in good numbers for more hours of the cycle. I mean, going into green for an hour does not seem as valuable to me as staying in the blues for several hours. I'm curious to see what the more experienced folks have to say on this.
     
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  3. Adam Flowers

    Adam Flowers Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2017
    He was 255 PMPS. I went ahead and gave him the 3 units. I will monitor him closely tonight. If he doesn't drop much, I may reduce the dose in the morning back to around 2.5 (depending on AMPS).

    @FurBabiesMama that's a good point about being in the blue for a longer period of time than an hour in the green... I too, am curious about that. As always, thank you for your advice :)
     

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  4. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Hi Adam! You're doing a great job keeping up your data and you really haven't moved the dose around all that quickly. Prozinc can handle changes every 3-6 cycles. There are a few places in your spreadsheet where you moved faster than that, but for the most part you're doing fine.

    It looks to me like 3u has given you some good numbers. I wouldn't suggest lowering unless something happens where you need to for safety. Often after getting a lower-than-usual number, a kitty will stay high and flat for a few cycles. I'm guessing the 96 a couple of days ago triggered the flatter cycles you've seen since then. It doesn't mean the dose isn't working. It's a totally normal response while the cat's body stabilizes and begins to adjust to lower numbers. See what happens tonight. I'm thinking either tonight or in the next couple of cycles you might see another good number if you hold at this dose. He may need a smidge more insulin before you start to see consistently good numbers, but I think I'd give 3u another cycle or two before increasing to see what happens.

    When you lower the dose, it stalls the progress, so try not to drop back if you don't have to. Let me know if you have any questions about all of that.
     
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  5. FurBabiesMama

    FurBabiesMama Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2017
    Mogee looks like he is thinking, "I'm too sexy for this couch." :cool:
     
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  6. Adam Flowers

    Adam Flowers Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2017
    Thank you for the advice and taking the time to look over Mogee's SS. He had his 3rd lowest PMPS (255) but I still went ahead and gave the 3 units. I am going to keep a close eye tonight. I am hoping his dose doesn't have to increase much more, if at all from here.

    I probably slowed the process by dropping him from the 3 units back when I changed him to all wet but I was scared of the low numbers that early in the curve but knowing what I know now, he was that low that early because he wasn't eating that much the first few days when we started the wet. Now that he is more accustomed to eating the pate, I feel he's eating and appetite is back to normal.

    I will keep him at 3 units for a couple more days and see what happens and go from there. You guys are great!
     
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  7. Adam Flowers

    Adam Flowers Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2017
    It appears that Mogee is going to stay level tonight. Still so crazy to me that he can have a low PMPS of 255 and get three units to only get to 211 @ +4. I know this takes time, just frustrating. Was getting better numbers at lower doses but not low enough.
     
  8. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Well shoot. I was really hoping he'd do better than that tonight. I think you could either give 3u another cycle or two to see if the bounce clears, or you could try 3.25 tomorrow. Conventional wisdom is that a bounce can last up to six cycles after the low, but the "low" wasn't really that low, so there is a little room if you want to try an increase sooner.

    This can be a frustrating little dance. Hang in there. You're doing a great job!
     
  9. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2013
    Those high flat numbers are always frustrating! I agree that you can probably stick with 3 for a few more cycles or increase...I think if it was me, I might stick with the 3 for one more day and then increase if you don't see a better number. But it's really up to you...as Djamila said, the low wasn't that low, so you could definitely increase and see what happens. :)
     
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  10. Adam Flowers

    Adam Flowers Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2017
    His AMPS was 241. I stayed with the 3 units. I hope it doesn't bring him too low this morning as I am not able to test until about +6 or +7. I may leave work and test @ +3.5 since I'm already worried he could go low.

    Thanks for the advice everyone
     
  11. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    He should be OK. Today's AMPS is in the same range as 2 days ago when he gave you that nice dark green nadir number. Sometimes you have to take these risks because you can't be there all the time. That's why SS data is so valuable. You can see a history of his responses and make more educated guesses about what might happen. :)

    Such a handsome boy! :smuggrin:
     
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  12. Adam Flowers

    Adam Flowers Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2017
    Thanks @Kris & Teasel. I guess I just worry too much. I only work about 5 minutes away from my house. This last 2 months has been so difficult and stressful. All I do in the morning while at work is worry about Mogee and if he is going too low or not. I think the shock of going right into the green after switching to wet food scared me, even though it should have made me happy. Those couple days after the switch where he dropped to 62 and 77 @ +3 really worry me now because I don't want him to drop that fast or be helpless when I'm not home. The 77 @ +3 was with only 2.25 units with a AMPS of 281. I strongly believe those numbers came low that quick because Mogee was still adjusting to the wet low carb food but it still worries me in the present.

    You guys are all so great. Have a good day everyone.
     

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