Dosing into remission ?!

Discussion in 'Caninsulin / Vetsulin and N / NPH' started by trapnurse, Jul 10, 2017.

  1. trapnurse

    trapnurse Member

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    I'm happy and excited but I don't want to do the wrong thing. I'm trying to micro dose but I might need some help! How should I go about dosing with such low pmps and amps!! I'm trying to micro dose but I can't find any where that sells half unit marked u-100 needles and I wanna keep him on this great new lower bg trend!!
    Any help is greatly appreciated though it's not an emergency .
     
  2. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Oh Wow! Cloud's SS is a thing of true beauty! hapydafhf.gif You are turning my green eyes a much deeper shade of green! :woot: He's doing fantastic on the 0.25u however you are measuring it.

    Walmart has the Relion brand 3/10 cc, 31 gauge, 8mm (5/16") needle, with 1/2 unit markings in their product line although if your Walmarts are like ours in Canada, the syringes available in the pharmacy differ from store to store. A lot of folks here order from ADW Diabetes. They have a variety of brands available.... just make sure you check the full description for the 1/2 unit markings. A gauge of 29 to 31 is fine but I'd stick to the 5/16" needle. There are shorter needles and some folks are fine with them but I found myself more prone to fur shots with the shorter ones.
     
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  3. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Cloud is doing wonderfully well!! :D
     
  4. trapnurse

    trapnurse Member

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    Uuummmm.... he's at 99... is that.... normal? For a ampstgat is I opted for no shot cause hot damn....also will not shooting this morning make him sensitive to it later if he goes up high 100s again? I fed him , do I wait and shoot in 30 if it's up? I'm just trying to make sure he doesn't go back off track. Sorry if I seem overly anxious
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2017
  5. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    UMMMMM.....yep, quite normal. I think you have a kitty on a mission and it's a good one! That is great. I too would have skipped the shot. PM pre-shot may be up a bit as a result (or he may surprise you) but not to worry, you'll get back on track in short order! Go Cloud! mini-graphics-cheerleader-864459.gif
     
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  6. trapnurse

    trapnurse Member

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    Thank you for the reassurance ~ I'm just trying to keep him healthy as I can and I sometimes worry I am incapable so I get overly anxious but here's to fingers crossed!
     
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  7. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Just so you know....normal BG for a non-diabetic cat using a human meter is 50 to 120 so right now Cloud is well within normal range! This is such good news!:D:D:D:D
     
  8. trapnurse

    trapnurse Member

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    Another low pmps of 141 tonight, reduced to 0.10, hope I made the right move but he seems to be on a great streak!!
     
  9. trapnurse

    trapnurse Member

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    And now he's at 60 two hours into his cycle and my room mate tested and told me. He is giving him some high carb gravy FF. With a drop or two of honey. I don't want to panic and send him into abounce but I'm not home to monitor and take care of this situation my anxiety about is pretty bad... I based his shot off previous data from his spread sheet I don't know why this happening and it's frustrating he was so close to being good. He's probably heading for a huge bounce.
    I feel so dumb because every time I have him In a good trend I mess it up again with bad judgement. I'll log this episode via edit to limit it to one post I hope that's ok. I'm a bit frazzled.
    Pm shot at 10 pm.
    60 BG at 12:30
    68 BG at 1:00 am
    101 BG 1:30 am
    114 BG 2:30 am
    121 BG 3:00 am

    Self comment:: I think I may have jumped the gun seeing it so close to 50 but it was heading down drastically so I think I may have also averted a hypo episode. Any thoughts when any one else wakes up is appreciated, also can any one tell me what BG number I should actually start giving him honey at? I'm tired of sabatoging my own progress by panicking. Sorry if this editing and adding to this post was of any troubleto any one else I'm an over anxious person and I am trying to keep it controlled but working right after his shot is given can be so nerve racking.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2017
    Reason for edit: Anxiety / information
  10. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    OH Allie! :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug: You need to take it easy on yourself and no apologies around here! You are handling this beautifully and should be proud of how well Cloud is doing and how you are managing this. Cloud is giving you a workout right now and all you can do is make judgement calls based on history and whether you or your roommate can monitor. When a cat gets this close to "normal" numbers, it can be challenging but you are NOT going to lose ground by skipping a shot when you need to or feel more comfortable doing so. You will get Cloud back on track in short order. You are not sabotaging anything.

    When you are home and have a situation like last night, feed a bit of HC gravy and retest in 20 minutes to see whether BG is holding, rising or dropping and make decisions based on your data. Some would say don't use honey until kitty is below 50 however with Novolin, I would be inclined to do exactly what you did last night especially when you are not home to monitor intensely and are relying on someone else to deal with the situation. No matter how reliable the other person is, we all have a need to be in control when kitty drops that low so go with your gut. It's usually right. And it was right last night.

    If you see a little bounce this AM, just stay the course. The bounce will pass and doesn't need more insulin. If it's low enough that you are uncomfortable giving insulin, then skip the shot.

    I am thrilled to see Cloud doing so well but I also completely understand the anxiety of having kitty shooting low numbers at you and how difficult that is to deal with when you are working. Just keep Cloud safe and work on keeping the numbers low when you are home to monitor closely.:D
     
  11. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Great advice from Linda. You're doing really well with Cloud. I think you handled the situation properly. :bighug::)
     
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  12. trapnurse

    trapnurse Member

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    It's so comforting to read this sort of reinforcement after this situation, I'm actually an hour shy of going home and plan to test him. I always worry I'm asking dumb questions ( though I search and check for the answer all over the site first before posting a thread). I just worry all my backtracking will lose progressive ground on a path to a possible remission. Thank you guys for the patience and help. I'll keep posted here on any episode or progress once I'm home .
     
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  13. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    We always say, "There are no dumb questions." :)
     
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  14. trapnurse

    trapnurse Member

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    I need a bit of rest before his shot but I just got home. Roomie checked him at 6:30am he was at 190 and at 7:30 he's at 170. Any input on if I should shoot if over a certain number and should I stick with 0.25?
     
  15. trapnurse

    trapnurse Member

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    I ended up giving him no shot at 190 BG at 10 am because I can't stay awake long enough to monitor him. This graveyard / the worry attack last night while at work took my ability to stay concious for today. Hopefully I can give him a shot today and hope it won't bounce him.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2017
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  16. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    Wow look at Cloud's turnaround! :woot: You might be looking into micro dosing if he continues his mission ;)
     
  17. trapnurse

    trapnurse Member

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    He's certainly certainly turning around! He's holding at 198 tonight on his own? With that information, and his SS can any one input any opinions about if this is remission hopefully, also should I take him to the vet to check for remission or is that a self decided thing?
    Side question: should I try to microdose him if he holdover 180 -170 like this?
     
  18. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    On the forum they consider a kitty in remission (OTJ) once they've not had insulin for 14 days and are holding between 50 - 120 on a human meter. The normal range numbers. Seems a lot of kitties hang in the middle normal range, 80's to low 100's. When you can monitor, I think you could try the micro dose :)
     
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  19. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    It certainly looks like something good is going on and that Cloud may be heading for remission. He's still a bit over normal but he is also holding his own without insulin so the outlook for remission is hopeful. Microdosing is definitely something you may need to employ to get him over that last little hump but I'd still recommend only doing so when you can monitor first to see how he reacts. .

    There really isn't anything the vet can do at this point to tell you whether this is the onset of remission or not. If you get to the point where Cloud is staying within normal range without insulin and has done so for 14 consecutive days, then the vet could run a fructosamine to confirm but at that point, you'd already have readings to confirm anyway so I think it would be a waste of money. If you continue to get readings too low to give insulin, the other option might be to switch over to a longer lasting insulin that brings about a gentler drop in BG over a bit longer period each cycle but for now, Cloud is doing fantastic albeit at the cost of some frayed nerves for you. Just do what you are comfortable with to keep him safe and you sane. ;)
     
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  20. trapnurse

    trapnurse Member

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    I think I'll skip the shot if it's under 200 today then because I wannafeel safer him being a bit high while I work then not. Thanks for the info on remission advice you two are lovely! ~<3
     
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  21. trapnurse

    trapnurse Member

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    I think I found the way that works for me to micro dose. Though I may need to learn about more slower long lasting insulins to get him ( I'm sure this forum has spot for that learning session) to switch cloud to, but for now I can microdose by measuring o.25 then putting it out on a cap or plastic sterile surface then drawing up only badly almost half that drop!
     
  22. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Allie, there is some information on drawing up micro doses around here somewhere but I'm not sure where. I'm bagged and heading for bed so I'll find it tomorrow and post for you.
     
  23. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Hi Allie, As promised here is a link to some fine dosing instructions. It was done for use with Lantus but will work the same for the Novolin as they are both U100 insulins. Just scroll down to the "Fine Dose Pictorial Guide". Hope that helps a bit. There is also a method one can use with calipers and there is some info on that too but it's my understanding that it can be a bit problematic with certain brands of syringes just because of their construction. Did you get the half unit marked syringes yet?

    I see Cloud continued to hold his own last night despite the missed shot in the AM yesterday. What amazing strides he's making! :joyful:
     
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  24. trapnurse

    trapnurse Member

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    I have not yet found which ones to buy online because I've been busy with work but I'm gonna try and buy / find them today! Any suggestions on a good brand? And he did!! He's 109 right now and I just woke my my grave yard shift!
     
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  25. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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  26. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    I use the BD brand but then I don't have any other choice here is Canada! :rolleyes: I do find that sometimes the plunger can be very sticky making it hard to finesse out small amounts to get to the right dose but it seems to be an intermittent problem and I sometimes wonder if it has anything to do with the age of the box or their storage. There is a paper ruler for doing micro dosing using the BD syringes which I had totally forgotten about. If you should happen to go that route and want the ruler, let me know. :)
     
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  27. trapnurse

    trapnurse Member

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  28. trapnurse

    trapnurse Member

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    I might need it but I can't print it due to printer lacking sadly ;-; so other route it is!!!
     
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  29. trapnurse

    trapnurse Member

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    Ahh! That fine dosing thing helped a lot actually!!! I think I can do this a lot easier now!
     
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  30. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    I like visual aides :smuggrin:
     
  31. trapnurse

    trapnurse Member

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    I don't know if this is the right place to post a celebratory post but cloud is at 117 an hour before shot time! The first normal numer since ever!
     
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  32. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    animated-cat-image-0009.gif You can post celebratory posts anywhere you like around here! We love them! I am just heading off to bed and so glad I saw this. It'll make for sweet (or should I say less sweet ;)) dreams! Congratulations Allie and Cloud! :joyful:
     
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  33. trapnurse

    trapnurse Member

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    Second night of no shot! He's at 108 at 9:30 pm there's no way I'm changing a shot, but now all I gotta do is find a way to ween down that AMPS.but second no shot!!!
     
  34. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Keep going Cloud!!! WHOO HOO! animated-feeling-smiley-image-0091.gif
     
  35. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    Anyone think she should try the 0.10U dose if Cloud's AMPS is above 145 to try and get a similar PS to give the same dose? Hoping to help lock his "R word" in (ANTI JINXING!) :smuggrin:

    Cloud is doing amazing :cool::D:cat:! I hope you'll keep your SS up, trapnurse! I've referenced Cloud's situation 2 or 3 times now for new members that have joined with kitties on high doses :)
     
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  36. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Yes Cloud is becoming a famous poster child at this point! I too have referenced Cloud's happy tail....oops tale! :joyful:

    @Yong Yes I think it may help to get a teensy bit of insulin into Cloud when pre-shot is high enough. He seems to be holding his own and not rising a lot even when shots are missed. Reminds me of another cat who rode the rails between not quite shootable but slightly elevated pre-shots and normal numbers and ended up starting an OTJ trial without really meeting all criteria and that little guy has done great and is still in remission. Every cat reacts differently so to some extent it becomes a case of trial and error and sanity maintenance for the caregiver!
     
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  37. trapnurse

    trapnurse Member

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    I'm giving him 0.25 in the morning since he seems to not need a shot at night? Or should I go the other way around? And lower to 0.10 ?
    And I'm glad cloud can help teach other sugar babies and sugar parents!
     
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  38. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    While the one shot a day is nice for us, there is speculation about how getting 2 shots can have a better remission :). I'm still going to vote for trying 0.10U if his PS is >140 twice a day :smuggrin:.
     
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  39. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    I agree with Yong. The ideal would be to keep Cloud in normal range for as much of the day as possible. With only one shot per day there is still a bit of a roller coaster albeit a much much gentler one than initially. While Cloud may very well do this on his own, a little consistent dosing every 12 hours might just help get him over that final hurtle but of course twice daily dosing is still going to depend on those pre-shot numbers and I'd wait to try it when you can monitor through the first cycle or two.
     
  40. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    What a success story! :D
     
  41. trapnurse

    trapnurse Member

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    He's at 127 tonight I do t feel safe about giving him insulin because if I fall asleep he might hypo while I'm out cold.
     
  42. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    That's fine Allie. Safety first at all times and Cloud will be just fine. 120 is still a normal BG and 127 is within meter variance of that so he's doing just great and your decision was spot on! :D
     
  43. trapnurse

    trapnurse Member

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    I finally got my monojecy half unit marked syringes!! And they have officially made it's so easy to do what I need to do!!
     
  44. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Great news! Now you won't be going quite so cross eyed drawing up doses! :woot:
     
  45. trapnurse

    trapnurse Member

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    I'm not sure why but I think cloud bounced ._. But he hasent had any thing but his normal food and his normal food times though he is at 203. I'm hoping he'll go back down. I don't want to have to dose him 0.25 tonight
     
  46. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    I think you are spot on. Cloud isn't quite used to those lows in the 80's yet so either skip or dose the 0.1. Don't shoot more insulin for a bounce because the bounce can break at anytime. Extra insulin could set off another bounce or take him even lower mid cycle and that you don't want to do. That was a lovely cycle today even with the bounce! :D
     
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  47. trapnurse

    trapnurse Member

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    Will do~ ! I'd prefer to be consistent so I'll just dose him 0.1 as usual and monitor~ thank you!!
     
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  48. trapnurse

    trapnurse Member

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    He came down to 143 before shot time so he got 0.10 and he's at 73 at +3 hours so I plan to be up a bit to monitor if I can but he seems to be fine~
     
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  49. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Wow! :joyful: Cloud is definitely heading in the right direction. Don't feel compelled to give insulin (even teensy doses) if pre-shots are that low and you're working/wanting for sleep etc. and can't monitor. He's doing great and a missed shot isn't going to hurt your progress. He's going as low as you want him to go while on insulin. I wonder if he bounced yesterday and cleared it real fast......or maybe he saw a squirrel through the window just before you tested and got that 203! :woot:
     
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