Ducky PMPS 141 +3 40! WHAT?!

Hello, Ducky is at 40 BG at +3 I just am having a really hard time figuring this out.... I gave him 3 tablespoons of Wellness core, and he ate it really quick. he doesn't seem glassy eyed or drunk... But I am freaking out a little... What should I do and why is he all over the place like this!

 

What is Ducky's BGL after eating? If not at least 60 and climbing, please give him some karo syrup, or honey. About 1mil to start.

~M

 

Hi,
how long should i wait to test again?

 

Hi Angel,

First take a deep breath. So wonderful that you are hometesting and caught this low number. Here is a hypo info sheet: http://www.felinediabetes.com/hypogly.htm Print it off and have it handy.

Good idea to feed a little. Don't give a whole lot of food. If he gets full, he won't eat and bring himself up. Test again in 15 minutes after that 40. Do you have higher carb food on hand? Syrup? (Not to give right now, just in case he dips lower.) If he isn't climbing, you will need to try the higher carb or syrup.

I'd suggest you go back up to your subject line and add the 911 icon. Just to get more eyes on your post.

 

test like right now....and every 15 minutes there after until climbing over 60 with three increasing numbers.

~M

 

He is at 42 now...

 

Based upon your spreadsheet, it looks to me as if you are changing his dose amounts waaaay too frequently.
Too much insulin will set him off to a rebound - then he goes high and you changed the dose again fearing that the dose was not working.
Lantus needs at least a week at one set dose to 'settle' before changing the dose.
If Ducky were mine, I would go back to 1unit BID and keep it there for at least a week while feeding nothing but lo-carb food and testing before every shot and at least at the nadir as well.

~M

 

Please test again in 15 minutes to see if it is still climbing.
The goal is to get him over 60 and he still has at least 3 hours before he nadirs.
And don't panic. It will not help you, or Ducky if you panic.
We are here to hold your hand thru this and most of us have been in your shoes a time, or two ourselves

~M

 

O.K., so...test again.

We call this the lather, rinse, repeat part of the sugar dance...lows happen to most everyone.

What foods do you have on hand?

Best-
Michele

 

What's happening, Angel? Keep us in the loop so you won't lose your responders. This time of night the board is pretty quiet. If we know you need help, we will stay up.

 

He is down to 40 again... I have dry purina cat chow, and low carb wet, and regular table sugar....

 

I have Honey too

 

I would let him have a couple of tablespoons of the dry - but please realize it is going to take at least 30 minutes before it does anything to help his blood sugar go up. You might want to give him a wee bit of honey - rub it on his gums. Test every 15 minutes.

~M

 

Agree with Mary on dry food. Some people mix a little of the syrup with the dry. You are doing great. Remember to breathe. One time through this and you will be an expert.

 

no medium carb or high carb cat food (something with gravy)?

how's ducky been eating today (trying to see if there's another reason besides the dose for the lower blood glucose reading)? if he's been eating normally, the 40 is your cue to reduce the dose next time. either reduce it by a hair so it's between 1.25 and 1u (probably make it just a tiny hair over the 1u mark) or bring it back to 1unit.

i know the numbers can be alarming, but this is a very good sign (when we're talking dose reduction this early in diabetes treatment). because the 40 didn't really rise significantly after a few bites of core, i'd be trying something a little higher carb on a low number like this.

 

Breathe...okay... got it...he ate some dry and I got a little dollup of Honey into him as well... i will check again in 15 minutes.

 

You are doing great, sweetie.
Hang in there and know we are here with you.

~M

 

To answer your question Chris, He ate normally. He loves to eat, I have switched him to a low carb food about a week and a half ago... Do any cats get one dose of Lantus per day? Or is it always two?

 

You are doing so good. The best thing is that there are ways to combat the low numbers and as Chris and Cleo said, this is good news - or will be when you get past this evening. Time for dose reduction - no question that the insulin is working. And the lo carb food - sometimes that can make a huge difference.

Still showing no symptoms right?

 

Cats do best on a 12 hour dosing schedule of lantus.

~M

 

it's pretty rare for a cat to get lantus only once a day. what we try to do is taper them down gradually so we can still shoot them twice a day even on a very low dose. some kitties end up getting 0.1u twice a day before they go off insulin entirely.

next time you go cat food shopping, i'd bring the food chart or note for yourself the canned food varieties that have around 6%, 10%, and 16% carb off janet & binky's food chart (always keep a few of those medium to higher carb food cans handy for when you need to get his numbers up a little). so if ducky goes into the 40s again, especially only a few hours after he got lantus, you'd give him a lick or two of the higher carb (lots of cats here like grilled salmon fancy feast, but go for something you know he'll like). that'll get his number up faster or slow down a drop.

 

Another thing to be aware of. After the honey and high carb, you may get a unusually high number in the morning. That is to be expected. Don't react to it by giving more insulin.

 

I am glad that you said that, Sue.
I was thinking it awhile ago and then got distracted by fighting cats and forgot to type it! :-/

~M

 

Okay, He is up to 50 now. Check in 30 or 15 you think?

 

The only symptom that I noticed was he was lying on the floor in the bedroom, a little unusual but I have been in there all night with him and he does tend to hang out where ever I am.. Or the food...

 

I'd do 15. I mean, what else do you have to do, right? Seriously, the honey can bring them right up but they lose the effects fast too.

 

Okay - 15 it is ... poor little ears.......

 

After tonight is over, Angel, you really need to go over to the Lantus board and ask for dosage advice. viewforum.php?f=9 I read your earlier posts and you have seen some low numbers. Lantus works best with a consistent steady dose and when you see movement, a tiny adjustment.

They will eventually want a spreadsheet. If you aren't busy tonight (ha, ha) you might try to set one up: http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=16 It is color coded and makes it very easy to see patterns.

Oh, and do you have some neosporin? You can put it on his ears to help. Also, hold the ear for a few seconds after you poke and get the sample. That minimizes the bruising.

 

sue, she's already been on the lantus board, and her 1.25 dose is our suggested reduction from her vet's earlier 1unit dose increase. her spreadsheet is already linked in her signature. guessing there's more traffic here at night in terms of posting a hypo situation. i'll post there tho asking for more eyes but from the 50 we're looking good here.

is that 50 at +4 now? how long after the evening shot is this?

 

Thanks for the advice Sue, I have set up a spreadsheet and have been working to adjust his dose because I made the mistake of listening to my vet. and we increased too much but we have been trying to go down... and his numbers are so wacky....I still can't believe I listened to the vet and increased by a whole unit... eeeek... I will post a dose question in the Lantus forum.

 

Hi Chris,

that is 50 at half way to +5. He is about 15 minutes from his +5 now and I am going to test him again.

 

Thanks, Cleo. Didn't know she had been there. I did go over to Lantus when she first posted but it looked pretty quiet so I posted a heads up on community. If you will be around awhile, I will go to bed. Early morning.

Angel, you have done a great job. Hope the 50 holds and heads up.

 

thanks for your help, sue.
yep, i'm a night owl plus i'm in california so i'll be up for a while. we'll keep monitoring this thru normal nadir and til number stabilizes. 50 is good.

i posted a link to this thread on the lantus forum.

 

I am out, too. Going to bed, I am sick with something and running a fever of 101.3. ick.
You are doing great, Angel, and you are in good hands with Chris.

~M

 

Thank you Mary and Sue. You both were a great help. I hope you feel better Mary.

He is up to 57 now at +5. I will just keep monitoring for a while.

 

excellent. let's check again in 20 minutes. if he acts hungry earlier, give him a bite and test then.

 

Hi Angel. You are getting great advice here and are doing fine. I'm glad Chris is staying with you since I'm in East coast time zone... yawn...

Just to confirm what everyone has said:

• Take Ducky's dose down by .25u to 1.00 unit for tomorrow.
  Numbers below 50 indicate the dose should be decreased by .25u for kitties diagnosed less than a year.
  Ducky may have a higher number tomorrow due to a bounce reaction from tonight's low numbers. Do not increase the dose based on that number.
  The vast majority of cats do best with shots every 12 hours so the dose needs to be small enough for you to be able to this.
  Stock up on some higher carb canned food (usually the varieties with gravy).
  Canned food is a great way to manipulate numbers since dry takes longer to affect the BG numbers and longer to clear out.

Hi Chris! So great that you are here.
Angel, you are in good hands and Ducky seems to be doing well. I'm happy to see the 57, but very glad you are still going to monitor for a while.

Best of luck and I hope tomorrow is less eventful!

 

Okay, 20 mins. Thanks for the help!

 

Thank you CD. Everyone is so wonderful on this forum. Goodnight to you.

 

Great work tonight, Angel- your first is always the most fun ;-) Believe it or not, eventually you'll start looking forward to these low numbers!

Ditto the other comments about picking up some HC and MC (high and medium carb) foods to keep at hand for things like this. The Fancy Feast grilled varieties are generally HC, and the ones that say "classic" at the bottom are LC (low carb). The cans are 30c apiece at Walmart right now, pretty much the lowest you'll find them.

See 'ya in Lantus Land!

(Last bit 'o housekeeping- on your SS, mark the times you tested when they weren't on the hour. It's easier for us to read and know exactly what you've been up to. Take a look at Vesta's SS, you can see how I did it earlier today when she was low. You'll have to manually change the background color is all, since it won't recognize the extra characters.)

 

HI Angel

I see you are still online, must have been a long night for you. You did great. Hour many hours + is Ducky from the shot now and what was the last reading? Like everyone said don't stress if you get a high AMPS, it's the bodies way of trying to make things right after a big low. Get some HC wet food next time you go shopping. i hvae mine in a sealed bag marked "Do not feed, for low numbers only" just in case my DH has feeding duty and mixes cans up.

Give us an update.

 

YAY! He is at 65 now at +5 1/2. I think he is on the rise now... whew.. do you think I should test him 30 mins from now and then if he is higher I can go to every hour or so? I am wondering if I should risk sleep.

 

wanna wait half an hour and get confirmation that he is going up? one more number like this and i'd feel ok about hitting the sack if i were you.

we don't have enuf data yet to determine nadir but two consecutive higher numbers are good enuf to feel comfortable that he's out of the woods unless it's way earlier than normal nadir.

 

I am going to wait another half hour and test him. If it is higher I will feel comfortable with that.
(but I may get up in another hour for another test if I can't sleep :smile: )

Thank you for your help Chris.

 

I agree with Cleo. Make sure to leave plenty of regular LC food out for him just in case he gets hungry overnight. I'd sleep just fine if I were you though.

 

Yay, way to go Ducky, and good job mama bean.

Looks like he is out of the woods, I'd be happy to go sleepies after one more rising number.

 

He is still holding at 65. I think he is fine now. I am going to leave out some food... (which he is eating right now) and call it a night. I will update everyone with his AMPS numbers.

Thank you all for helping me through this!

 

no problem. i think he's fine, too. just make sure there's food in his bowl when you go to bed.
also, if you can edit your first post to remove the 911 that would be good. otherwise someone new may get excited thinking you need help right now.

expect some kind of rebound in the morning, but don't worry. just go ahead and shoot the reduced dose when it's time to shoot, unless he's too low, in which case you'd want to wait 15 min and test again. you keep doing that til you get a shootable number.