Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by Beth 73, Dec 20, 2016.
@Kris & Teasel @Critter Mom @MrWorfMen's Mom ....what is going on ?????
Hard to say, Beth. Stress? New thyroid dose? UTI? Will you give 0.25 u tonight?
I don't know... I am totally confused....
I don't know what to give tonight.....holistic vet said it didn't sound like he had a uti...urine output was normal today...that number shocked me...I am a bit shaken
So glad I have you all ....
Only out of ordinary thing was about 5am this morning I checked on him and he was sound asleep...didn't respond to,petting and when I picked him up he was a little limp but came fully awake....that was scary
My holistic vet said to only up thy dose by 1/2 for a 3/4 pill dose
He is laying on couch now....been sleeping most of day , as usual....
Should I increase dose tonight????? I will feed him in 30 minutes and shot in one hour
How far along in the cycle was this, Beth?
And how long after the thyroid med dose?
If he were mine I would not increase the dose - especially on a night time cycle.
About +11 this morning.....about 9 hours after thy med....then gave it again at +1.5 this morning....it goes out of their system in 12 hours
In kitchen now meowing to be fed...
Could be combined stress and thy med increase
Did Elmo eat his usual meals today or could he have gone lower at some point while visiting with Dr. Pat and is now bouncing? Also, I'm wondering if doubling the thyroid med has now slowed his whole system down and that cats do get the effect of a thyroid med increase faster than humans. I know Menace has sometimes sent me into panic mode just as Elmo did to you today but I have always found she was running high rather than low so it's likely he's off because of the higher number he's now unaccustomed to.
I'm with Mogs. I never change things up on a night cycle unless it's a dose reduction. I'd go with the same dose as before. Better too high for the night and back to puzzling him out tomorrow.
So stay with the full .25 ????
I will be up regardless after this ...
No. Needs to be lower. Let me look at Elmo's spreadsheet for a few minutes ...
Last time I checked was +4 and he was 130....let him be after long day yesterday....I knew in my gut to not double that thy dose and Dr Pat confirmed it today..to only go up by another 1/4 and test in a month...
This AM you gave 0.25 u minus small drop. I certainly wouldn't increase at night. Stay the same?
I did give .25 minus one small drop.....I don't know, Kris...I trust you alls judgement /experience right now ....
I have to admit that I thought the increase in the thyroid med was a bit aggressive. My sister-in-law has hypothyroid and her dose was last adjusted by 0.112mg. I know this is the opposite problem to Elmo's but if humans can be effected by that small a dose adjustment, then one would logically think a tiny cat would need even finer dose adjustments whether hyper or hypo thyroid was involved. Given cat's higher metabolism though, that might not be the case.
Beth, none of us are experts with hyperT (or diabetes for that matter because we are always learning!) so the next time your gut tells you not to follow the vet's advice, don't be afraid to raise that flag. You know Elmo much better than any of us or your vets. Our advice was based on not changing everything at once and muddying the waters making it more difficult to get a handle on things and I still think that is the best course of action.
Has Elmo been a bit sleepier than normal today - or possibly a bit 'wiped out'?
Also, can you give me about 10 mins or so to look at his info and have a think?
between you all and having that appointment today with DrPat(which I planned a week ago just cos) I am breathing deep and know everything is going to be all right!!!
Yes yes yes....he is currently eating well...seems perfectly normal...
Not really wiped out...except for that scary brief weakness this AM he has been normal
Trusting your gut is usually the way to go. It rarely lets you down. He should be fine on that dose, Beth. You can relax.
What time was that relative to the increased thyroid meds dose?
.25,or .25 minus one small drop???
Thinking cap on. Back shortly ...
9 1/2 hours...3 hours from it being out of his system..
I've got my daughter texting me that her friends new puppy has parvovirus and is hospitalized...hopefully I can keep my conversations straight here
Take ur time, Mogs..it is well and everything is going to be well in Elmo land....bit confused but well
Just to confirm:
5am = PM+11?? Is this correct?
5AM is one hour before I take AMPS at 6AM and 2 hours before I give shot at 7AM
So relative to the injection time it's PM+10. Helpful info. Still thinking ...
After I give his insulin I'm going to emergency text DrPat for thy med advice ...
Take ur time , Mogs
Beth at what actual clock time did you do last night's PM+11 test for the spreadsheet?
Actual clock time was 5AM
It was early this morning..about an hour before I get up at 6
Got ahold of Dr Pat and she said skip thy dose tonight....my gut feeling again but is nice when there is backup
That thyroid dose increase is the only thing different today.
@Kris & Teasel @MrWorfMen's Mom @Critter Mom .....so I am to give .25 minus one small drop and check BG every hour til I drop ????
Yep it is...she is the best...gave me her own cell number for emergencies...
Thanks for the info.
Just to confirm I've got facts straight, you noticed the odd symptoms at 5am and you did the BG test at that time and the result was 177.
Vetsulin's crystalline fraction typically kicks in at about +7 and may produce a dip in BG between +7 and +10. I was just a little concerned that Elmo might have had an uncharacteristic dip in BG which might then have had something to do with his being slightly out of it at 5am when you roused him. With the previous BG of 133 I think it unlikely that he went low.
It's tricky when a new variable is introduced (the T meds) so it's always wise to be cautious.
One possibility why PMPS is higher tonight is that Elmo had a slightly larger drop this morning - elevated AMPS and lower nadir without any food steering. I wonder whether there might be a bit of bounciness and a bit of med change in tonight's higher PMPS?
Assuming that you're OK to monitor Elmo, I'd suggest doing the 0.25-small drop tonight, Beth.
@Kris & Teasel, @MrWorfMen's Mom - will either of you be around to keep an eye out for Beth and Elmo? I'm absolutely hanging here so won't be online.
PS: Beth, perhaps give Elmo his little pre-nadir snack(s) if he drops fairly quickly from the higher PMPS.
Thank u, Mogs...we will be fine...Dr pat said to skip thy med tonight and give fluids so have all fronts covered.
Will do Mogs...u think testing hourly is enuf ??
Oh no just orally
Cool. For info, sub-q's can sometimes impact BG (lowering effect).
I agree with you Mogs' re: dose recommendation and will be around to keep watch with Beth. Go rest up and look after the Noodler Mogs! I'm going to go "shoot" my little sugar and heat up some food. Will be back very shortly.
You all are the best....question on how often to monitor BG???
Beth, I'd check Elmo at your usual +1.5 and then play it by ear as far as testing and food is concerned. We have to watch his steps and listen to his directions right now because he's changed the steps a bit through no fault of his own.
He be dancing funky right now.....that you, Kris and Mogs have done this dance for so long impresses and amazes me. You r women of steel !!!
And thank u for Elmo sitting with me....I'm praying and believing it will be a short night...glad Mogs could go rest because of you and Kris
Linda, could u give me some steering advice to stop him from bouncing??? Going to test at +1....what number should I respond to with 1 t low carb food ???
We need him to come down slow, correct ???
Guess I'm curious as to good downward movement numbers ....what would be best case scenario and how to achieve....I'm trying to lead in this dance, aren't I ?
Ideally, yes but until you switch over to Lantus, the definition of slow is a little more warped and unpredictable.
Oh Beth! You don't seriously think you get to lead do you? Elmo is a CAT. Dogs have owners, CATs have slaves. You are Elmo's slave and you do HIS beckoning and he doesn't have to give you clues as to what his beckonings might be. He's leading this dance and you are following! Only when he trips on his own feet do you get to lead him back to a respectable position!
So what would be a good + 1. +1.5 number ? And at what early number would I need to steer? Getting ready to get +1 , just for grins
Big mistake. HUGE!
I have to go shopping now ...
Yes, I have taken my sleep meds.
Mogs, take care of your self !!!!!!
What! The little scamp has dropped 100 points already?!?! WOW! Ok yes I would say perhaps a little steering might be good but just LC and just a tiny bit.
Just waiting for the dose to kick in. (Fnar, fnar...)
As long as u r here at our Elmo watch party, should I steer at +1 135....100!point drop in one hour
What's a tiny bit ???
Check again in 30 minutes and we'll see what he's got up his sleeve tonight!
A tsp or so.
No steer now ??
Now you see why I really don't like the idea of sliding scale dosing for Vetsulin. It can really pull down unexpectedly high preshots.
Oh oh...messages crossed... got it tsp low carb
After a drop like that I'd be inclined to give 2 tsps of grub (LC).
BUT, you are currently under the influence of sleepy time meds , sooooo
Ok, vetsulin is officially #~%€}#%. !!!!!
Seriously, I am learning so much tonight....thanks once again to the Kitty Cavalry
Checking again at +1.5 in about 10 minutes
+1.5.....132......steer ? One tsp LC ???? Test again in 30 minutes at +2 ????
Gave one teaspoon at +1.5.....test again at +2?????
Yes m'am! Sorry was off on another thread for a couple of minutes.
No biggie...u all have taught me well ......testing at + 2 in about 10 minutes..
Ok. I'm waiting with my fingers crossed that he's slowed down!
I heartily agree....and u r so right about cats....takes great self confidence to be their " slaves"....dogs smile, dogs wag...then there's Garfield
+2...133....to steer or not to steer, that is the question ???
And test again at +2.5 ????
Did you give him 1 or 2 tsps. at +1? I know you gave him 1tsp at +1.5. I'd test him again at +2.5 but hold off on feeding again just now. Let's see if he'll surf for us.
I gave 1t at +1and 1 t at +1.5
So don't test at + 2 ???
Ok, 1 tsp. seems to be holding him for now so let's skip a snack right now and test again at +2.
OHOH! I see I made a boo boo up there. I meant +2. Good catch Beth! See you got this girl!
Mercy, if I don't write it down it floats away to Neverland...I am an obsessive note taker....even makes me batty sometimes but sure has come in handy during this Adventure with Elmo
Hold on, this time stuff drives me crazy. He was 234 at PMPS, 135 at +1, 132 at +1.5 and 133 at +2 so he's surfing for now. Test him at +2.5 and then if he's still surfing, give him another little snack and leave him until +3.5 unless he shows any signs of anything unusual.
Sorry ladies. Had to be away from my computer for a while. Is everything under control?
I can only read these numbers if they're in a vertical column ...
Yes Kris everything is under control except I think I just confused Beth about timing but I think we're good now.
Just to summarize,
+1 - 135
+1.5 - 132
+2 - 133
She's going to test him again at +2.5 and see if he's still surfing. If so, I suggested she give him another tsp. and retest again at +3.5. Hopefully by then we'll know we warded off that major drop he threw at +1 tonight.
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