EVO question with Lantus

[Mandy & Rex (GA)]

Rex was getting 0.5U, but I just bumped it up to 1U because his bg's were staying in the 400's. I suspected maybe he was still snacking on the Fromm's dry food (high carbs), even though I didn't see him at all until I finally caught him yesterday. I'm picking up EVO dry food today after work. My question, I was told to start at 0.5U if he gets only wet food and 1U if he eats dry food. But if EVO is 8% carbs and it will be more of a snack, is 1U still good? He gets a full can (5.5 oz) a day in 2 feedings. I don't want to do more feedings so all the cats are used to getting wet food 2x a day for when I'm gone over a weekend or on vacation and the petsitter comes over 2x a day.

 

[rhiannon and shadow (GA)]

I had a friend who had a cat who would not eat wet food no matter what ( and she and I tried to think of every possibility to make it so)

She had switched to Evo dry.... thinking it was low enough but it wasn't for her cat.
She was the first successful diabetic cat to actually go into remission after she switched to Young Again.

Since you have been shooting 1 unit now a few times, I would consider next increase being only a quarter unit at a time....
and imho, maybe it's time to do that soon.

 

[Mandy & Rex (GA)]

I haven't switched over fully to EVO yet. Today was the first day of a tiny bit being mixed in with Fromm's. I have like 6 cups left of Fromm's I need to use up.

 

[Doodles & Karen]

With dry food in the picture on SLGS, you hold the dose for 7 days unless he drops below 90 before doing any dose changes and should do a curve before doing so. I think he's fine at the 1u but agree to increase in .25u increments moving forward especially with food changes. If Rex will eat just wet food it's the best way to get him into remission. If not, EVO, while lower in carbs will not be low enough in carbs to achieve remission. EVO is also specifically known for causing urinary crystals.

Young Again Zero Carb while expensive up front is worth it in the end if you need to leave dry in the picture. Many have gone into remission on it. No judgment here, I had a die hard kibble addict until the end even after pulling my hair out and every trick in the book.

 

[Cherish Gallagher]

With dry food in the picture on SLGS, you hold the dose for 7 days unless he drops below 90 before doing any dose changes and should do a curve before doing so. I think he's fine at the 1u but agree to increase in .25u increments moving forward especially with food changes. If Rex will eat just wet food it's the best way to get him into remission. If not, EVO, while lower in carbs will not be low enough in carbs to achieve remission. EVO is also specifically known for causing urinary crystals.

Young Again Zero Carb while expensive up front is worth it in the end if you need to leave dry in the picture. Many have gone into remission on it. No judgment here, I had a die hard kibble addict until the end even after pulling my hair out and every trick in the book.

Why does Evo cause crystals?

 

[Mandy & Rex (GA)]

If Rex will eat just wet food it's the best way to get him into remission. If not, EVO, while lower in carbs will not be low enough in carbs to achieve remission.

Thank you. The dry food is more for another cat. Rex is snacking more than anything and he has cut back a lot compared to what he used to do.

I'm bummed to hear EVO could lead to urinary crystals after hearing good things.

 

[Doodles & Karen]

Why does Evo cause crystals?

I don't have the scientific answer to that. My civie cat got them while on Evo and never had them before and hasn't since we stopped feeding it and all her kidney values went back to normal. She eats wet and YAZC now. @Wendy&Neko had the same experience before FD. If you can get all your kitties on the wet food it's best. I do leave the wet food out all day and just my civie does graze on it.

Freeze dried raw such as Stella & Chewy's or Primal can be served dry (better if water added) but an alternative for those that "need" dry food.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

My civie or non diabetic cat got crystals on EVo. Dr. Lisa Pierson did a recent post on dry food and urinary issues here: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...r-more-than-just-carbohydrate-content.175004/
Basically it comes down to lack of water as a primary culprit.

 

[julie & punkin (ga)]

The dry food is more for another cat.

I would try to move this kitty to the canned low carb or raw that Rex needs, rather than the other way around. It would be good for him too. When Punkin became diabetic we moved our other kitty to canned as well, and it turned out that her chronic diarrhea went away on it. Worked out better than we ever expected.

Dr. Lisa has lots of tips here for transitioning dry food addicts to canned/raw.

 

[Jill & Alex (GA)]

If not, EVO, while lower in carbs will not be low enough in carbs to achieve remission. EVO is also specifically known for causing urinary crystals.

Why does Evo cause crystals?

I don't have the scientific answer to that. My civie cat got them while on Evo and never had them before and hasn't since we stopped feeding it and all her kidney values went back to normal. She eats wet and YAZC now. @Wendy&Neko had the same experience before FD.

My civie or non diabetic cat got crystals on EVo.

Hey ladies! This is how quickly rumors can get started and myth becomes reality on the FDMB.
Two incidents of kitty developing crystals while being fed Evo is not enough to draw any conclusions much less make a blanket and specific statement such as "EVO is also specifically known for causing urinary crystals." KWIM?

Over the years, we've seen many, many kibble-addicted kitties being fed some Evo without any problems... and yes, some of them have even gone into remission! Don't get me wrong, I am not a fan of feeding ANY cat dry kibble. Wendy is right when she said it basically comes down to the lack of water being the primary issue... although, there are others such as dry food being too high in plant-based versus animal-based proteins and dry food is often contaminated with bacteria, fungal mycotoxins, storage mites/cockroaches and their feces. Yuk!

I recommend this website to everyone I know who owns a cat: Feeding Your Cat: Know the Basics to Feline Nutrition. It's well worth reading!

 

[Mandy & Rex (GA)]

I would try to move this kitty to the canned low carb or raw that Rex needs, rather than the other way around. It would be good for him too. When Punkin became diabetic we moved our other kitty to canned as well, and it turned out that her chronic diarrhea went away on it. Worked out better than we ever expected.

Dr. Lisa has lots of tips here for transitioning dry food addicts to canned/raw.

My civvie Keena, for some reason, can get sick from the canned food. It's not common, but once in a while, he will eat the canned food and immediately regurgitate. I do not know why. I am now limiting him to Chicken and Turkey Whole Earth Farms canned food to see if it makes any difference. He has gotten sick twice on the Chicken flavor so I might have to feed only the Turkey. He won't eat the Friskies stuff. I do hope to transition him over to that somehow as it's a lot cheaper in the long run. When he does get sick, he wants to go eat dry food.

Hey ladies! This is how quickly rumors can get started and myth becomes reality on the FDMB.
Two incidents of kitty developing crystals while being fed Evo is not enough to draw any conclusions much less make a blanket and specific statement such as "EVO is also specifically known for causing urinary crystals." KWIM?

Over the years, we've seen many, many kibble-addicted kitties being fed some Evo without any problems... and yes, some of them have even gone into remission! Don't get me wrong, I am not a fan of feeding ANY cat dry kibble. Wendy is right when she said it basically comes down to the lack of water being the primary issue... although, there are others such as dry food being too high in plant-based versus animal-based proteins and dry food is often contaminated with bacteria, fungal mycotoxins, storage mites/cockroaches and their feces. Yuk!

I recommend this website to everyone I know who owns a cat: Feeding Your Cat: Know the Basics to Feline Nutrition. It's well worth reading!

Thank you @Jill & Alex (GA)!
I did worry after I heard about the urinary crystals. However, it will not be the main source of food in our house. The cats like to snack in between their 2 meals. I refuse to do more than 2 feedings a day because we will be gone several times this summer and if they were accustomed to getting 3 or more meals a day, they would not be happy going to 2 meals a day those times. I am now putting up the dry food at night.

 

[Jill & Alex (GA)]

I refuse to do more than 2 feedings a day because we will be gone several times this summer and if they were accustomed to getting 3 or more meals a day, they would not be happy going to 2 meals a day those times.

Please try to maintain an open mind and remain flexible in all aspects of Rex's treatment. His numbers are very high at the moment so restricting meals to twice a day may be ok now, but that will change and when it does... feeding mini-meals or allowing grazing may become necessary to keep him safe.
Just sayin'...

 

[Mandy & Rex (GA)]

Please try to maintain an open mind and remain flexible in all aspects of Rex's treatment. His numbers are very high at the moment so restricting meals to twice a day may be ok now, but that will change and when it does... feeding mini-meals or allowing grazing may become necessary to keep him safe.
Just sayin'...

I do understand that. That's why I leave dry food out for snacks between meals. Just trying to run out of Fromm's dry food so it's all EVO because that will cut down 20% of the carbs!

 

[Cherish Gallagher]

Hey ladies! This is how quickly rumors can get started and myth becomes reality on the FDMB.
Two incidents of kitty developing crystals while being fed Evo is not enough to draw any conclusions much less make a blanket and specific statement such as "EVO is also specifically known for causing urinary crystals." KWIM?

Over the years, we've seen many, many kibble-addicted kitties being fed some Evo without any problems... and yes, some of them have even gone into remission! Don't get me wrong, I am not a fan of feeding ANY cat dry kibble. Wendy is right when she said it basically comes down to the lack of water being the primary issue... although, there are others such as dry food being too high in plant-based versus animal-based proteins and dry food is often contaminated with bacteria, fungal mycotoxins, storage mites/cockroaches and their feces. Yuk!

I recommend this website to everyone I know who owns a cat: Feeding Your Cat: Know the Basics to Feline Nutrition. It's well worth reading!

Thank you. I was really worried after reading that. It's hard to get a handful of different opinions especially when you're already freaked out over the diagnosis itself. I would love to only feed Angel wet food and she would love it also but we have another cat in the house that won't touch the stuff. We have tried countless times. He has gone on several hunger strikes that lasted near 2 days where we finally just gave him his food back. He's very stubborn and will literally not even TRY the wet food. He's a kibble addict and to make matters worse he's very overweight at 28lbs. We definitely need to try the transition again in the near future. I just know it's not good for indoor cats who get fed on a regular basis to go long periods without eating. So each time we only let it go about 1.5 days with him not eating.

 

[Jill & Alex (GA)]

I would love to only feed Angel wet food and she would love it also but we have another cat in the house that won't touch the stuff. We have tried countless times. He has gone on several hunger strikes that lasted near 2 days where we finally just gave him his food back. He's very stubborn and will literally not even TRY the wet food. He's a kibble addict and to make matters worse he's very overweight at 28lbs. We definitely need to try the transition again in the near future.

I have a non-diabetic kibble addict here, too. It took what seemed like 4 of the looooooooooooongest months of my life to get him switched over to wet food. One thing that helped was to pick up all food after his evening meal and then put out canned food first thing in the morning when he was good and hungry. Another little trick I used was to sprinkle ground up kibble on top of his canned food. At first he'd only eat a bite or two before I'd have to let him eat some kibble, but eventually he would eat enough that I would feel comfortable allowing him to go without food for another 6 hours or so. Then we'd repeat the whole process. Towards the end of about 4 months I decided to switch to raw food. I don't know if it was coincidence or my kibble addict was just ready, but he took to being fed raw food like a duck to water. That was eleven years ago and we've never looked back.

Good luck with transitioning your kibble addict! I feel for you. It can take a ton of patience and boat loads of perseverance to transition some kitties.

 

[Carol & Murphy (GA)]

Hi Catgirl - when I first adopted Murphy (about 7 years ago now and years before his FD diagnosis) he too vomited every time I fed him wet food - I tried all varieties of fancy feast and many other brands at Petsmart. It wasn't until his FD diagnosis that I started to try to figure out what could be happening - after reading about carrageenan and xanthan and other gums (there's info on the ibdkitties.net website) I now only buy canned foods without those additives (and there are just a few brands) but Murphy can now tolerate wet food and eats that primarily. He frequently won't touch the wet until I give him about a teaspoon of dry - I use Wysong's Epigen90. Evo elevated his blood sugars, and he won't eat YAZC. Sometimes it is like the kibble settles his stomach -

 

[Mandy & Rex (GA)]

Hi Catgirl - when I first adopted Murphy (about 7 years ago now and years before his FD diagnosis) he too vomited every time I fed him wet food - I tried all varieties of fancy feast and many other brands at Petsmart. It wasn't until his FD diagnosis that I started to try to figure out what could be happening - after reading about carrageenan and xanthan and other gums (there's info on the ibdkitties.net website) I now only buy canned foods without those additives (and there are just a few brands) but Murphy can now tolerate wet food and eats that primarily. He frequently won't touch the wet until I give him about a teaspoon of dry - I use Wysong's Epigen90. Evo elevated his blood sugars, and he won't eat YAZC. Sometimes it is like the kibble settles his stomach -

Could you tell me some of the brands? I don't think Whole Earth Farms wet food has carrageenan, but not sure about xanthan and others.

 

[JanetNJ]

I don't think 1 unit is cutting it. Time to up the dose. Don't want her to stay in those high numbers so long if you can help it. I'd go to 1.5 and see what happens, but chances are you'll wind up higher than that.

 

[Mandy & Rex (GA)]

I don't think 1 unit is cutting it. Time to up the dose. Don't want her to stay in those high numbers so long if you can help it. I'd go to 1.5 and see what happens, but chances are you'll wind up higher than that.

I thought with SLGS, I should be increasing only 0.25U at a time. I already "cheated" and increased from 0.5U to 1.0U last week. I plan to do a curve tomorrow.

 

[Carol & Murphy (GA)]

Could you tell me some of the brands? I don't think Whole Earth Farms wet food has carrageenan, but not sure about xanthan and others.

okay here are the ones I use - I do think carrageenan is the main culprit though
Ziwipeak, Nature's Logic, Bravo, Impulse by Halo, Nulo, Only Natural Pet Power Pates (found online at Only natural pet website), Nature's Variety Instinct, Koha