Experienced PZI users only please...

Discussion in 'Prozinc / PZI' started by Jena4277, Mar 4, 2018.

  1. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    Aug 8, 2017
    Thank you for the Info!!
     
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  2. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    Aug 8, 2017
  3. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Yup, exactly what Kris said. Sometimes there is a little back and forth on dose to soften the curve a bit. Her curve is pretty steep right now. If the drop from PS to nadir is more than 50% it can cause bouncing and just not feel good to the kitty, so the aim is to keep bringing the nadir down, but also to get the PS numbers to come down with it, and that can take some finesse. So we lower and you can see the first cycle she got a 94 which is great, then the nadir starts to slowly creep back up, so the dose has to go up a little too. Because her curve is so steep, a fat 1.0u is a better next move than going straight to 1.25u, although you'll almost certainly be back at 1.25u soon. The baby steps just help ease her into it.
     
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  4. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    You guys are a great support system! :cat:
     
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  5. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    I only pricked her once tonight. 70 at +5 with a fat 1u...Interesting
     
  6. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Yes, interesting! I'd keep the fat 1u for a little bit then. How was your snow day? Do you get another one? Did you get a lot of snow?
     
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  7. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    Agreed.
    I had 13inches about an hour ago. It’s turning to slushy rain which will stop around 3am. I work a half hour north and they were supposed to get up to 18.
    Haven’t heard from my superintendent yet. He usually makes the call around 5am.
     
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  8. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Geez! I hope they cancel school for you...driving in that kind of insanity would not be fun. Did you guys keep your power? I've heard it got really bad in some places....
     
  9. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    Our lights were fickering. Definitely cancelled. Our drifts are over two feet like at the end of our driveway. About to go out and clear it!
     
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  10. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    Hi. So I am a little frustrated. I was able to pill Abby with cerenia last night. It was a struggle. Tonight I couldn’t do it. I got it in supper far in her throat, shot her some water, she smacked her lips, I put her down, and out came the pill, destroyed. This vomiting has been occurring since January if not before. She hasn’t vomited yet today, but she did the other day two days off the pill and I’m sure she will again, it’s just a matter of time. I read about vomiting versus regurgitating. She is definitely heaving from her stomach. What comes up depends on how recent she has eaten. Mostly just water or foamy white liquid someotimes brown from her food, rarely a whole meal she just ate, I think pure food came up one time in all of this. The vomiting is so often (speaking as if it were last week) that it has become second nature, interrupted sleep following her around with towels to catch it at 1 2 3 am...just a nightmare that has become part of a daily routine. I am at the point where I cannot connect the vomiting to anything. She had it before this pancreatitis diagnosis and before this hyperthyroidism diagnosis. I’m just worried something more serious is going on. I am also trying to figure out the cerenia thing. I will buy a pill gun I think. Not sure if they sell the in stores? I did see them on amazon.
     
  11. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Oh Jena, that is so stressful! I'm pretty sure we are all familiar with the "following around with a towel" zombie walk. I'm so sorry you're having to do that so frequently.

    Sam fakes me out with swallowing the pills sometimes too. One trick I've found is to have a treat at the ready and as soon as I think he's swallowed, I put the treat in front of him to eat. If he eats the treat, the pill goes down the hatch too.

    Have you watched this video: Sam isn't as nice (or as small) as the kitty in the video, but this technique does work reasonably well. One thing I've learned is that a hard surface is needed. If I try it when he's on a rug or furniture it doesn't work b/c he can get traction and get away from me. Another trick is pinching off a tiny bit of a pill pocket to wrap around the cerenia. Then when he does spit it out (which he usually does a few times before he swallows it) it's usually salvageable instead of completely destroyed. I swear he sits there and laughs at me every time he manages to spit it back out. It's like a game for him. He doesn't even run away. Just spits it out, laughs, and waits for me to try again. :cat:

    Oh, more tricks....while her head is tipped back and after you've tossed in the pill, gently stroke her throat. This triggers a swallow reflex. Or hold her mouth closed gently and blow on her nose which is also supposed to make them swallow.

    And mostly just patience, persistence, and some gentle reward for yourself once it's over! Pilling a cat is probably the hardest thing we have to do.

    As far as the ongoing vomiting, it's possible that she's had low level p-titis for awhile. In many cats it can be a chronic condition and go on for a long time. It's also possible that she has IBD, an acid-y stomach, or a food allergy. There are a number of things that can cause ongoing vomiting in kitties, so while it may be something serious, it's really more likely that it's something more common.
     
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  12. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    Thank you for the info! Will try the treat and pill pocket trick. I did the whole nine yards and she still managed to pull a fast one. I have seen many YouTube videos. I should add PhD to the end of my name :smuggrin:
     
  13. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    These kitties of ours are awfully wily! Their ability to avoid swallowing a pill is unbelievable sometimes. May the force be with you!
     
  14. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Might try rubbing some butter on the outside of the pill or pill pocket too. That could help it slide down the throat more easily since it's kind of slippery!
     
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  15. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    Can I just tell you - I rolled up the pill, legit with more talent than making Xmas cookies, in cream cheese since she ate that the first couple times. Rolled it so tight no way she could eat around it....she’s chowing down and out came the pill. #%*$! So I ended up putting it in her food, hiding it and she gobbled it up without knowing.... indentured servant for the #win! #queen takes the big L. :joyful::joyful::joyful:

    I am still wondering what the trick is to getting her preshot numbers out of 300. :bookworm:
     
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  16. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Well done, good and faithful servant!!!

    As for the pre-shots -- is the thyroid medicine a life thing, or a med that is taken for a period of time? The high numbers are likely a combo of p-titis, inflammation from the arthritis, and diabetes. So there might not be much to be done for them while figuring out an anti-inflammatory for the arthritis and waiting for the p-titis to ease up.

    Sam's numbers come down quite a bit when he's between p-titis attacks, so hopefully Abby will settle down as well when she's feeling better.
     
  17. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    @Kris & Teasel @Djamila her pm preshot is HUGE at 495. I tested her at +5 today and she was 85...didn’t think she would drop so low after that. She didn’t eat anything strange either. Should I stay with the fat 1 tonight?
     
  18. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    Also will not be home tonight to test.
     
  19. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    I gave her same dose.
     
  20. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I was away from home when you posted. Don't worry about the red PS - bouncing from the lovely dark green. That's a very nice nadir range number so I'd keep the fat 1 u for now. I put more weight on the lows than the PSs when assessing a dose.
     
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  21. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    That was sure an icky PMPS. Looks like we were all out last night! I'm so sorry no one was around to respond. Glad to see she's back to a more normal number this morning.

    how does the snow look? Are you going back to work this week?
     
  22. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    We went back Friday. We have 3-7 coming Tuesday. Looks like more cancellations. We already lost a day of April vacation.... luckily I will be in Europe on a field trip with 17 of my students!
     
  23. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    Abby’s arthritis is super bad right now. Limping and unable to jump up whereas a couple weeks ago she was a gazelle. Can this still be pancreatitis? The vet said more bloodwork in three weeks but I’m sad watching her in pain. Should I get pain med or arthritis med first?
     
  24. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Limping sounds like arthritis but there's usually a more gradual build up of mobility problems. Does she have signs of neuropathy in her back legs - walking lower on her legs?

    Pain meds would give more immediate relief. Arthritis meds like Adequan have a cumulative effect.
     
  25. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    No, she hasn’t gotten to the point yet but i can tell it takes her backside a bit more effort to jump up on the couch.
     
  26. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Many people find that an oral B12 supplement helps a lot over months. One popular one is Zobaline, available online.
     
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  27. srk4cats

    srk4cats Well-Known Member

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    Why do people freak out if the numbers are in the 300's or 400's? When it gets so high that the meter only reads "HI", that is when you should really start to worry.
     
  28. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Actually, 300s and 400s can be very high for some people. I wouldn't tell people when they can and cannot worry about something. We all worry about our kitties because we love them.
     
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  29. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    @Kris & Teasel @Rachel @Djamila

    Hi ladies ! Hope all is well with you. I haven’t gone back up to the 1.25 yet but I am seeing more and more consistent reds on the fat 1.0 and it’s freaking me out bc she had previoisly been steadily in the 300s (not that it’s good but it is better) I want to move her up but I can’t monitor her during the day. Tonight i will take a test after parent teacher conferences. Joy.
    I’m not so sure these reds are bounces anymore and I don’t have enough data to tell but they are getting more frequent. Could she have just evened out here? When should I go up to 1.25?

    Thanks in advance as always!
     
  30. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    Actually it’s better to be much more proactive than that.
     
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  31. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Sometimes a dose seems to go "stale" after a while. It's hard to say without mid cycle data though. Two choices: 1. keep this dose and do a proper curve on the weekend; 2. increase to 1.25 u on Saturday and get at least one test mid day and before bed both Saturday and Sunday.
     
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  32. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    You said you can get a test in tonight? Can you monitor this weekend? If you did a curve on Sat and determined the dose wasn't causing a bounce, you could increase on Sunday and still monitor.

    I agree, it's important to be proactive about those 300 and 400 numbers! You don't want to wait for it to be HI before you do something. With that in mind...you're testing for ketones, right?
     
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  33. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    Hi again - I stopped the cerenia bc I wanted to see how she felt and 5 hours after normal dose she vomits everywhere. I have two pills left = 8 more days (I am get more) but should I wait to see if the vomit was something else and skip another day or should I just give her cerenia tomorrow night and not take any chances?
     
  34. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    Sorry my phone didn’t load the new comments and I just read them
    Now. Ok I will do a curve Saturday and then change Sunday if I need to. She just tested 291 at +5.
     
  35. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    Yes. Came back negative a couple days ago.
     
  36. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    She tested 219 at AMPS today....what in the world lol She is a puzzle o_O
     
  37. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    They are puzzles for sure! :confused: Keep the fat 1 u for now and try for more tests on the weekend.
     
  38. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    As far as the cerenia, I think if she's eating okay, and just vomited once you could give it a little more time, but if you see any signs of nausea - turning her head away from food, smacking lips, walking to food and then walking away without eating, hanging her head over the water dish/sitting by the water dish but not drinking, etc. - or more vomiting, then I would restart.
     
  39. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    She hasnt vomitted in three days off cerenia - yippee!

    I bumped her to 1.25 last night. I took some numbers today, not exactly a perfect curve because I overslept and didnt get a +2/3 that I wanted. But I think she did ok granted her AM number was lower than usual. If I see any light greens in the future, I should lower the dose for 2 - 3 cycles and test to see if that evens things out? Thanks all. She is feeling much better. phew. (dont want ot ginx myself though)
     
  40. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I'm very glad she's feeling better. If you get a lime green number in a cycle you should drop the dose by 0.25 u. :)
     
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  41. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    So glad to hear she's feeling better! Hope it continues.
     

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