Discussion in 'Prozinc / PZI' started by Jena4277, Mar 4, 2018.
Thank you for the Info!!
Yup, exactly what Kris said. Sometimes there is a little back and forth on dose to soften the curve a bit. Her curve is pretty steep right now. If the drop from PS to nadir is more than 50% it can cause bouncing and just not feel good to the kitty, so the aim is to keep bringing the nadir down, but also to get the PS numbers to come down with it, and that can take some finesse. So we lower and you can see the first cycle she got a 94 which is great, then the nadir starts to slowly creep back up, so the dose has to go up a little too. Because her curve is so steep, a fat 1.0u is a better next move than going straight to 1.25u, although you'll almost certainly be back at 1.25u soon. The baby steps just help ease her into it.
You guys are a great support system!
I only pricked her once tonight. 70 at +5 with a fat 1u...Interesting
Yes, interesting! I'd keep the fat 1u for a little bit then. How was your snow day? Do you get another one? Did you get a lot of snow?
I had 13inches about an hour ago. It’s turning to slushy rain which will stop around 3am. I work a half hour north and they were supposed to get up to 18.
Haven’t heard from my superintendent yet. He usually makes the call around 5am.
Geez! I hope they cancel school for you...driving in that kind of insanity would not be fun. Did you guys keep your power? I've heard it got really bad in some places....
Our lights were fickering. Definitely cancelled. Our drifts are over two feet like at the end of our driveway. About to go out and clear it!
Hi. So I am a little frustrated. I was able to pill Abby with cerenia last night. It was a struggle. Tonight I couldn’t do it. I got it in supper far in her throat, shot her some water, she smacked her lips, I put her down, and out came the pill, destroyed. This vomiting has been occurring since January if not before. She hasn’t vomited yet today, but she did the other day two days off the pill and I’m sure she will again, it’s just a matter of time. I read about vomiting versus regurgitating. She is definitely heaving from her stomach. What comes up depends on how recent she has eaten. Mostly just water or foamy white liquid someotimes brown from her food, rarely a whole meal she just ate, I think pure food came up one time in all of this. The vomiting is so often (speaking as if it were last week) that it has become second nature, interrupted sleep following her around with towels to catch it at 1 2 3 am...just a nightmare that has become part of a daily routine. I am at the point where I cannot connect the vomiting to anything. She had it before this pancreatitis diagnosis and before this hyperthyroidism diagnosis. I’m just worried something more serious is going on. I am also trying to figure out the cerenia thing. I will buy a pill gun I think. Not sure if they sell the in stores? I did see them on amazon.
Oh Jena, that is so stressful! I'm pretty sure we are all familiar with the "following around with a towel" zombie walk. I'm so sorry you're having to do that so frequently.
Sam fakes me out with swallowing the pills sometimes too. One trick I've found is to have a treat at the ready and as soon as I think he's swallowed, I put the treat in front of him to eat. If he eats the treat, the pill goes down the hatch too.
Have you watched this video: Sam isn't as nice (or as small) as the kitty in the video, but this technique does work reasonably well. One thing I've learned is that a hard surface is needed. If I try it when he's on a rug or furniture it doesn't work b/c he can get traction and get away from me. Another trick is pinching off a tiny bit of a pill pocket to wrap around the cerenia. Then when he does spit it out (which he usually does a few times before he swallows it) it's usually salvageable instead of completely destroyed. I swear he sits there and laughs at me every time he manages to spit it back out. It's like a game for him. He doesn't even run away. Just spits it out, laughs, and waits for me to try again.
Oh, more tricks....while her head is tipped back and after you've tossed in the pill, gently stroke her throat. This triggers a swallow reflex. Or hold her mouth closed gently and blow on her nose which is also supposed to make them swallow.
And mostly just patience, persistence, and some gentle reward for yourself once it's over! Pilling a cat is probably the hardest thing we have to do.
As far as the ongoing vomiting, it's possible that she's had low level p-titis for awhile. In many cats it can be a chronic condition and go on for a long time. It's also possible that she has IBD, an acid-y stomach, or a food allergy. There are a number of things that can cause ongoing vomiting in kitties, so while it may be something serious, it's really more likely that it's something more common.
Thank you for the info! Will try the treat and pill pocket trick. I did the whole nine yards and she still managed to pull a fast one. I have seen many YouTube videos. I should add PhD to the end of my name
These kitties of ours are awfully wily! Their ability to avoid swallowing a pill is unbelievable sometimes. May the force be with you!
Might try rubbing some butter on the outside of the pill or pill pocket too. That could help it slide down the throat more easily since it's kind of slippery!
Can I just tell you - I rolled up the pill, legit with more talent than making Xmas cookies, in cream cheese since she ate that the first couple times. Rolled it so tight no way she could eat around it....she’s chowing down and out came the pill. #%*$! So I ended up putting it in her food, hiding it and she gobbled it up without knowing.... indentured servant for the #win! #queen takes the big L.
I am still wondering what the trick is to getting her preshot numbers out of 300.
Well done, good and faithful servant!!!
As for the pre-shots -- is the thyroid medicine a life thing, or a med that is taken for a period of time? The high numbers are likely a combo of p-titis, inflammation from the arthritis, and diabetes. So there might not be much to be done for them while figuring out an anti-inflammatory for the arthritis and waiting for the p-titis to ease up.
Sam's numbers come down quite a bit when he's between p-titis attacks, so hopefully Abby will settle down as well when she's feeling better.
@Kris & Teasel @Djamila her pm preshot is HUGE at 495. I tested her at +5 today and she was 85...didn’t think she would drop so low after that. She didn’t eat anything strange either. Should I stay with the fat 1 tonight?
Also will not be home tonight to test.
I gave her same dose.
I was away from home when you posted. Don't worry about the red PS - bouncing from the lovely dark green. That's a very nice nadir range number so I'd keep the fat 1 u for now. I put more weight on the lows than the PSs when assessing a dose.
That was sure an icky PMPS. Looks like we were all out last night! I'm so sorry no one was around to respond. Glad to see she's back to a more normal number this morning.
how does the snow look? Are you going back to work this week?
We went back Friday. We have 3-7 coming Tuesday. Looks like more cancellations. We already lost a day of April vacation.... luckily I will be in Europe on a field trip with 17 of my students!
Abby’s arthritis is super bad right now. Limping and unable to jump up whereas a couple weeks ago she was a gazelle. Can this still be pancreatitis? The vet said more bloodwork in three weeks but I’m sad watching her in pain. Should I get pain med or arthritis med first?
Limping sounds like arthritis but there's usually a more gradual build up of mobility problems. Does she have signs of neuropathy in her back legs - walking lower on her legs?
Pain meds would give more immediate relief. Arthritis meds like Adequan have a cumulative effect.
No, she hasn’t gotten to the point yet but i can tell it takes her backside a bit more effort to jump up on the couch.
Many people find that an oral B12 supplement helps a lot over months. One popular one is Zobaline, available online.
Why do people freak out if the numbers are in the 300's or 400's? When it gets so high that the meter only reads "HI", that is when you should really start to worry.
Actually, 300s and 400s can be very high for some people. I wouldn't tell people when they can and cannot worry about something. We all worry about our kitties because we love them.
@Kris & Teasel @Rachel @Djamila
Hi ladies ! Hope all is well with you. I haven’t gone back up to the 1.25 yet but I am seeing more and more consistent reds on the fat 1.0 and it’s freaking me out bc she had previoisly been steadily in the 300s (not that it’s good but it is better) I want to move her up but I can’t monitor her during the day. Tonight i will take a test after parent teacher conferences. Joy.
I’m not so sure these reds are bounces anymore and I don’t have enough data to tell but they are getting more frequent. Could she have just evened out here? When should I go up to 1.25?
Thanks in advance as always!
Actually it’s better to be much more proactive than that.
Sometimes a dose seems to go "stale" after a while. It's hard to say without mid cycle data though. Two choices: 1. keep this dose and do a proper curve on the weekend; 2. increase to 1.25 u on Saturday and get at least one test mid day and before bed both Saturday and Sunday.
You said you can get a test in tonight? Can you monitor this weekend? If you did a curve on Sat and determined the dose wasn't causing a bounce, you could increase on Sunday and still monitor.
I agree, it's important to be proactive about those 300 and 400 numbers! You don't want to wait for it to be HI before you do something. With that in mind...you're testing for ketones, right?
Hi again - I stopped the cerenia bc I wanted to see how she felt and 5 hours after normal dose she vomits everywhere. I have two pills left = 8 more days (I am get more) but should I wait to see if the vomit was something else and skip another day or should I just give her cerenia tomorrow night and not take any chances?
Sorry my phone didn’t load the new comments and I just read them
Now. Ok I will do a curve Saturday and then change Sunday if I need to. She just tested 291 at +5.
Yes. Came back negative a couple days ago.
She tested 219 at AMPS today....what in the world lol She is a puzzle
They are puzzles for sure! Keep the fat 1 u for now and try for more tests on the weekend.
As far as the cerenia, I think if she's eating okay, and just vomited once you could give it a little more time, but if you see any signs of nausea - turning her head away from food, smacking lips, walking to food and then walking away without eating, hanging her head over the water dish/sitting by the water dish but not drinking, etc. - or more vomiting, then I would restart.
She hasnt vomitted in three days off cerenia - yippee!
I bumped her to 1.25 last night. I took some numbers today, not exactly a perfect curve because I overslept and didnt get a +2/3 that I wanted. But I think she did ok granted her AM number was lower than usual. If I see any light greens in the future, I should lower the dose for 2 - 3 cycles and test to see if that evens things out? Thanks all. She is feeling much better. phew. (dont want ot ginx myself though)
I'm very glad she's feeling better. If you get a lime green number in a cycle you should drop the dose by 0.25 u.
So glad to hear she's feeling better! Hope it continues.
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