First shot need advice.........

Hi,

This morning is supposed to be "first shot" for Bandit. So far not going well.

He's 6 and was feral when we got him. He's a gentle cat, but still has the flee instinct as his default tactic. Dr. thought I'd be able to sneak up on while he was feeding. But with the recent visit to the Vets yesterday he turns and scoots. She's in surgery right now and I've got a call in.

It's not the shot itself that's worrying me, he'll probably hold still if I place him on a table and "just do it". And I'm not squeamish about the injection itself, we practiced at the Vets yesterday. What I am worried about is creating an adversarial and unpleasant precedent to something that might have to become routine (crossing our fingers on remission, but preparing for the long haul).

I fed him, he didn't come out right away, once eating when I approached he high tailed it (no pun intended). He's still wary from yesterday's Vet visit. Now he's under the bed. Since we're trying to get timing down, I might have to wait till tonight for the first dose since the 12hr interval is starting to slip past our schedule.

My thought is this, tonight I get him when it's time to feed and just give him the shot, then feed him. My problem is, if it spooks him he might not eat. If I feed him and approach him, I'm right back to where I am now, and I'll have to play goalie and grab him, giving him an unpleasant association with feeding.

I'm going to get this done, I just don't want to make it harder on my self and him in the interim by not being smart about it.

Thanks for any advice in advance.

 

Lots of us gave them the shot when their face is deep into their breakfast or dinner. Since you get the number before then, it doesn't matter if they get the shot with food. But if he is already nervous about this whole thing, you might try sitting next to him and petting him while he eats, talking to him. Then the next time, give the shot. Some people with a feral cat have had to literally lock themselves in the bathroom with them , wrap them up in a towel and give the shot. But it would be really nice if you were able to give it while he is calm, so I'd keep on working on that.

And it does also involve your having confidence about doing this thing. If you are firm and know that he needs the shot and you will be giving it, that is best. They can sense our insecurity.

 

It might have to be a tad adversarial to start. He needs it, it's gotta happen. He's not the sort that can be soothed into much. He's either in a communal mood or he's not.

While he is skittish he rebounds in a few minutes from most things unpleasant for him. For example he doesn't like the gas grille on the deck. No idea why, but the hiss of the gas, the plume of the flame, send him to one of his safe spots. After I'm done and the back door is closed he generally comes out to check things. Other than something major like the car ride /vet visit, he's more aloof than afraid most of the time. Even when he is finally cornered when in the house and held, he never scratches or bites or squirms, he sort of just gives in. He's a strange combination of independent/solitary, but not combative. It's the initial grabbing him that's the biggest pain. He was physically oblivious to the shot when at the Vets. We did 3 practices with water (distilled?) and there was no reaction what so ever. Because he didn't have a safe spot to go to, he just laid on the exam table with no need for restraint or anything.

He just came out and finished his food, but it's too late to do the first injection.

Tonight I'm going to put out his food, let him eat for a bit, then just grab him and do it. I think he'll go hide for a bit than come out and eat again. I really don't have much of a choice at this point. I need a starting point, to gauge anything.

Thanks for responding, sometimes just bouncing things back and forth makes you think of a course of action.

 

Hey there. Have you ever tried feliaway? It is a pheromone spray which relaxes cats. Maybe try to spray a squirt to the eating area prior to him eating and see if that will relax. Maybe put him there for a minute before you give the food and then just go over and pet him as he eats and then try to sneak the shot it. Maybe that could help. Or try a bit of cat nip prior. It makes my cats "stoned" a bit, very mellow.

 

I have some nip, and it helped with the carrier on the second visit in a couple of days. First was for the testing and diagnosis, the second was for the practice injections. I'll pick up some spray too.

Thanks.

 

I like Bobbie's suggestion. I heard for some cats, it really makes a difference. How wonderful of you for giving a feral a home.

 

Everything went fine.

I let him eat for a few minutes. Crept up slowly, he saw me, I petted him, he didn't scoot, tent, jab, done. He scooted if only because of the sensation, but in less than in a minute he was munching again.

 

Way to go!!!! Good job Daddy bean!

 

Now he doesn't even scoot, he just keeps eating. The wife gave him his shot tonight, so now we can coordinate the 12hr interval. Right now we're just concentrating on that. On the 19th we're doing an all day testing and reporting the numbers via Email to our Vet.

We going to be just fine.

 

That is so nice to hear! Good luck with the testing and keep us posted

 

Yes, congratulations - so glad to hear this
You guys are doing great!!

 

Can we get you to set up your signature. That way when you need some help the peeps here will know a bit about you and bandit. If you look in mine you can see the information that I shared like Bubba's age, when he was diagnosed (DX) what insulin he is on, food we are feeding, the meter used and any thing else you would like to share that can fit in three lines.


In the upper right corner of the screen, within the dark blue bar, you will see ID, Inbox, and Alerts

Click on your ID.

On the left, under Settings, Click on Signature.
This is where you will put information that helps us give you feedback. You are limited to 2 hard returns, so separate pieces by | or -.
This is where you paste the link for your spreadsheet, once it is set up.
Add any other text, such as
your name | cat's name | date of Dx (diagnosis) | insulin | meter
general location (city and state/province)
any other pertinent issues like if there are any food issues, history of DKA, hepatic lipidosis, pancreatitis, allergies, IBD, etc.
Click the Save Changes button at the bottom.

Always click the Save Changes button at the bottom when you have changed anything.

Also, has anyone talked to you about food? We recommend low carb wet food under 10% carbs. Dry foods are too high in carbs. Many of use Fancy Feast CLASSICS, or 9-Lives PATES, Wellness NO GRAIN, just to name a couple. Here's the link and the carbs are in the 3rd column from the left.

foodchart

 

Also, if you set up a spreadsheet, you will be able to email your vet the link and they can view it anytime.

Our spreadsheet instructions are here.

 

Way to go! Sounds like your Bandit is going to take his shots just fine. I also have a tuxedo kitty, so wonderful you took in a feral cat. Best of luck with the testing and well..everything!

 

Signature set up, and spread sheet ready.

Bandit from when I got him (lighter for scale):

EDIT:
Is this a reliable source for products? Seems a too good to be true price when compared to other vendors: http://www.countrysidepet.com/alphatrak-2-blood-glucose-meter-starter-kit/

And Thanks again Everyone.

 

He is adorable and how precious that you have that video of his youngster days! I don't know about the site you posted someone else will have to weigh in on that.Good job setting up signature and SS!

 

He was so small I had to fumigate the fleas blanket style and pick them off of him, direct applications was too toxic for him due to his low weight. But he rebounded quick. There's other videos on that YouTube Channel of mine, but I have a tough time watching them. They're of our long time cat Houdini who passed after 20 years. He would eat anything.

He's better already. This morning he flopped on the bed, purred, and fought with me under the covers, etc. He hadn't done that in weeks. I thought he might be just turning into the laziest cat I've ever had, of course we know now the cause of his lethargy.

I'll do some more research this morning before I order the meter.

 

What an awesome video of little Bandit. Also great job in setting up your signature and spreadsheet.

How to Read a Spreadsheet
Regarding the spreadsheet and how to read it. BJM has a great explanation which is below:


The colored headings at the top are the ranges of glucose values. They are color-coded to clue you in as to meaning and pattern.

Each day is 1 row. Each column stores different data for the day.

From left to right, you enterthe Date in the first column; the AMPS (morning or AM pre-shottest) in the 2nd column and the Units i.e. the dose given in the turquoise column.

Then, there are 11 columns labeled +1 through +11. If you test at +5 (5 hours after the shot), you enter the test number in the +5 column. If you test at +7 (7 hours after the shot), you enter the test number in the +7 columnand so on.

Halfway across the page is the column for PMPS (evening or PM pre-shot test). To the right is another turquoise column for Units i.e. the dose given at the evening shot.

There is second set of columns labeled +1 through +11. If you snag a before bed test at +3, you enter the test number in the +3 column. It is suggested that you test before you go to bed to ensure your kitty is safe for the night.

We separate day and night numbers like that because many cats go lower at night and we want to see the pattern.

The nadir (mid-cycle or somewhere usually between +5 and +7) is the lowest glucose between shots. There is a general period when it will happen which is specific to the insulin being used and testing then helps make sure your cat doesn't go too low. Some insulins like Novolin, Caninsulin and Vetsulin nadir may be at +4.

 

Good job on the spreadsheet. Hurray on getting the shot down! Now for your full fledged membership to the Vampire Club.

While you are waiting for the meter (if I am right you haven't started home testing yet) you might start to desensitize him.

So pick a place. On the counter, between your knees on a towel, on the couch or bed. And always go there. Find a treat he loves: PureBites and Bonito flakes are popular here. And only give it for testing. Take him to the spot first. Pet him. Mess with his ears a little, praise, treat and let him go. Then, add the rice sack (thinnish sock filled with raw rice heated in microwave until very warm). Some people give them a all over rub with it until concentrating on the ears after a few times. But regardless, pet, praise, warm the ears, treat and release. The idea is that by the time you add the poke, they are ready for the treat.

Try the meter on yourself first. See how long you have with the strip and how to insert it. See how the lancet works. If you get the AT, I think it comes with the heavier gauge lancet (25-27 gauge). That size usually gives you a better hole than the 30/31 people use. Put a flashlight behind his ear so you see the vein that runs down the side and the capillaries that run off it to the edge. That's where you want to aim.

Glad he is acting more like himself. That is always great to see!

I don't know about the lower price for the AT. It would sure be nice but I am a little suspicious. I think Abbott is the sole provider? Maybe ask them or your vet?

 

I think Paula, @woodsywife, orders from Countryside.

 

Awww, he was so cute and little, how lucky he found you! He looks very much like my Tuffy, who was a feral barn kitty. Glad to hear he is already feeling better!

 

Yes it is reliable and fast. Just got 2 boxes. And like normal Smokey decided he had to use one immediately. I'm ordering 2 more today.

You can also buy on Amazon. That is where I brought the meter. Strips I get from Countryside.

 

Here's another vendor with the AlphaTrak starter kit at $54.99 (25 test strips)
http://www.allivet.com/p-2438-alphatrak-2-starter-kit-blood-glucose-monitoring.aspx

 

Thanks for the links and advice.

He chased a neighborhood critter or outside cat from window to window last night. Something he hadn't done in a while. I'm 52, my wife isn't far behind me, I had one daughter from my first marriage and she's grow with children of her own, other than that no other children. We're fortunate that we don't have many responsibilities outside of working, and can set up a routine for Bandit. A mini-vaction we were eye-balling has to be put on hold for now. But we've never been big on those hence not having gone on one in long time. We were planning one if only for the "we should get away" factor, because it seemed like something we should do, not something we wanted to do. We're homebodies for the most part, so again this additional step in our routines isn't all that life altering. Just a hiccup. Again we're fortunate that way, I'm sure it's not the same for many others, and I applaud those who do this while juggling other things in life.

 

Hey Daddy Bean, so nice that Bandit is active again! That is a nice confirmation that he is feeling better. Also, it was nice to hear a little something about you and your wife. I too applaud all those who are juggling at home children, full time jobs and the care of their sugar cat. By the way, what is your name? You could add it to your signature if you'd like.

 

Normally I'm old school internet, and prefer anonymity. Location, job, marital status etc etc are all universal things one can have in common. A name is a name, I PC gamed with people for 11 years who never knew my real name, and even when it was eventually revealed to them, they never used it. But with Bandit being my forum I.D, I suppose it does get confusing, so it's Kevin

 

Tip using ALPHA TRAC. I put the strip partly in but not so it turns on. Then poke(s). Once I see a drop of blood I finish pushing the strip in to turn on. So by the time (couple of seconds) the meter is ready, I have a good size drop. Oh watch out for the head shakes! Can lose that drop fast.

 

I understand about the anonymity thing. It'll be good to address you by something other than Bandit's Bean.

 

Hi Kevin! Glad to know your name. I understand the old school internet thing...this is really the only place I would use my real name. Honestly, this group has become my family.

Glad to hear Bandit is doing well!

 

Thanks for the tips.

Bandit is oblivious or dare I say it, even expecting of the shot now. AlphaTrak 2 should be here tomorrow, I'm going to do a couple of test in preparation for the big day. Not to mention I'm very curious about his numbers. I can't imagine they are not better, since he is better.

 

We'll be anxious to hear. Have you done some conditioning with treats and heating the ear?

For reference: we generally think of cats being regulated if they are in the mid/lower 200s at pre shot and in double digits at nadir (5-7 hours after the shot) but not below 50, which is nearing hypo range. We suggest new diabetics not get a shot under 200 but stall. Wait 20 minutes without eating and retest to be sure the number is rising, not falling, and over 200. Then consider shooting a smidge less than the previous dose so you don't reproduce the same thing the next cycle.

 

Whoops. Forgot the Alpha Trak, Kevin. So, just as a reference point, add about 30 to those references. We don't have exact correlations for Alpha Trak and our human meters, but that will still give you a general reference. And the low point, at which to pay attention, would be around 68.

 

Having trouble getting blood from the ear. Finally did it about an hour after he ate. 66 on the AlphaTrak2 (a tad low? add 30 is 96) . Either way that's not too bad post meal right?

Sorry I just don't have the brain power right now to correctly comprehend the conversions accurately and post them, it's going to be enough just cornering him (every 2 hours) since the first GB test didn't go thrillingly. I tried last night with no results and laid off as to not spook him too much. Today I finally just removed the protective cover on the spring loaded Lancer and jabbed the vein till I heard a distinct piercing of the skin. Got about two droplets, plenty for the test, but between the snapping of the automatic lancer and holding him down, he's not exactly happy right now.

I need to run an errand in the interim, and test him when I get back. I'll call my Dr. with the first test number.

 

Welcome to the Vampire Club! . I am hoping it wasn't a pre shot number? 66 is low on an AlphaTrak.

We suggest new diabetics not get a shot under 200, but stall. 20 minutes without feeding and retest. You want to be sure the number is rising, not still falling and over 200. Don't feed during that time as food as that can raise the levels and then you won't have a "true" number. Once you have some data and a better idea of how your cat reacts to the insulin, you can gradually lower that number.

We generally consider a cat regulated if they are in the lower to mid 200s at preshot and double digits at nadir (usually 5-7 hours after the shot) but above 50. At 50 you start paying attention, give a little regular food and retest in 20 minutes or so. If the numbers drop in the 40s, add a teaspoon of gravy off high carb food (do you have a hypo kit?) and retest. You want three rising tests before relaxing.

Remember your levels on AlphaTrak will need to be adjusted for these ranges. Wish we had Those specific guidance a.

 

Also, for the first 2-3 months, I would occasionally get a lower than expected reading, and it was because there was too little blood on the strip --so it was an error. When I repeated, making sure there was a good sized bead of blood, the reading was more or less what I expected. So I just wanted to put that out there. Also I personally have much better luck not using the spring loaded lancer - just holding the lancet by hand.

 

Forget the "add 30" logic! If you saw a 66 on an Alpha track, you don't need the number going any lower than that. On a human meter, the number would be lower, not higher.

When was this in relation to the shot? Assume there was a shot, how much did you give?

 

2 units
Shot and food are the same time. So about 1hr after food and shot it was a 66. He's come out and I'm going to try another test.

 

Sorry, Kevin, forgot the AlphaTrak. Where are you now? I am glad you fed after the 66 and we're hoping he came up. Please give us some more information. Did you have a preshot number?

Please get another test and let us know. You may need to give him some honey to bring up his levels.

 

Good idea. You don't want the number going lower. You might have to intervene to not let that happen.

 

Just swung by the Drs.

She'd like the same thing, another test then one before his shot tonight. 66 is a tad low, it could be that it's fast reacting with him. He's not showing signs of anything abnormal.

 

I would get that test as soon as possible. 66 is "below normal". Especially that soon after eating and a 2u shot. In theory, Prozinc will keep pushing the numbers down for 5-7 hours in most cats.

 

Hi, Kevin - Another AlphaTrak2/ ProZinc user here. Did your vet get a BG # when you went by there? What was that #? And what was the # your vet got on the day Bandit was diagnosed?

Yes, 66 is too low, and as you got no preshot test before dosing him and this # was an hour after the dose/food, we don't really know where he was at before you shot him. I'd recommend you give him a little more food now. Please be aware that some cats do not exhibit symptoms of hypoglycemia - so when you've seen a # this low after a dose, is best to go by BG#s, rather than by any textbook-type list of hypo symptoms.

You just had your first lesson in "why you should always test BG before shooting insulin." (Most of us have been there, too.)

 

Thanks, Robin. Another set of eyes is a good thing.

 

Hi Kevin,

Can you please clarify (in case I missed it, sorry...) exactly how long ago you gave the shot? Please tell us in hours rather the actual time because we're in different time zones.

And regarding symptoms of low blood glucose: Some cats show no symptoms at all until the 'hypoglycemia' is quite advanced. So don't let the 'absence of symptoms' fool you. Be guided by the numbers. If the numbers are low, take action to raise or stabilise them, even if there are no symptoms of low blood glucose. As we say around here, "Better too high for a day than too low for a minute."

You're doing a great job. And you certainly won't be the first person here who perfected their hometesting skills because their cat was in low numbers. In fact, you're in very good company.

Eliz

 

I added the "911" icon to make sure people see this thread. I'll show you how to do that later in case it happens in the future.

 

As you can guess, we're all waiting to hear what kind of a # you get with that next BG test (which I hope you've managed to get.)
Don't have to read the rest of this post right now ... let's concentrate on getting that BG test result, ok?

I know how hard it can be to get a feral-rescue to cooperate with you at test-time, Kevin. Bat-Bat was rescued @ age 1 month, and is still very "fractious." But that said, I have managed, with gentle persuasion, to get her to be much more cooperative. And rest assured, there are few nerve endings in the edges of a kitty's ear, so is more like a mosquito bite to a cat (rather than the often-searing pain of pricking your fingertip, where there are lots of nerves).

I asked about the BG# your vet got on Bandit at diagnosis because cats (and especially ferals, I think) can spike #s much higher than usual in a vet clinic: called "stress hyperglycemia." (Even 100+ pts or more.) Which underscores the importance of home-testing before an insulin shot: Without a preshot #, you are shooting the insulin - quite literally - in the dark. While some vets actually discourage home-testing, that's just ludicrous: What doctor would prescribe insulin for a human diabetic and tell them they don't need to check their blood glucose before they inject a dose? Not a one!

Our goal here is to help you get your diabetic kitty's BG regulated safely; that's why we're all so glad that you've started testing! And here's a little more good news for you: You may even find that Bandit's next preshot BG# is really not nearly as high as it was at the vet's office. And wouldn't that be wonderful!

 

I didn't take Bandit to the Drs (today), just stopped by for advice from her.

7:00am feeding and Shot (2 units):

BG test at about 9:15 of 66.

Unsuccessful attempt at getting reading at about 2:00pm. Couldn't get it to blood up this time.

I just feed him half a can of food (2:42pm) because of the low numbers.

Will attempt a preshot test at 7pm tonight and perhaps another one soon since he's out from under the bed eating, and his angst is subsiding.

Original number day of diagnosis 400.

 

3:25pm approximately 40 minutes after half a can of food: 218.

 

Good. I'm glad you gave him some food, Kevin. That 1/2 can certainly did the trick - and great job in getting that test!
(How did Bandit react this time around?)

 

Ok, that's actually a good thing. It looks like the food pushed up his numbers. Part if it is also probably a "bounce" - his body's response to experiencing a low number earlier in the cycle. They may go higher, but that's no big deal.

 

Better. I put a flashlight under his ear, so I could see the vein better and just pressed the lance against it, till I heard a faint snap of the skin. Small bloodlet this time, but enough for the meter.

So 218 isn't too high? Or normal for right after a meal when not accompanied by a dose of insulin?

 

No, 218 is not too high. It isn't even drastically "above normal" on the meter you are using. Some, but not a lot.

The 66 that you saw an hour after shooting and feeding this morning - that number was most likely NOT due to the shot you gave an hour beforehand. That is what caught my attention when I saw it. It usually takes 2-3 hours before the shot really starts bringing the numbers down ("Onset" is what we call it). And then it will continue to cause the number to fall for several hours after that. 5-7 hours after the shot is what you would expect as far as when the insulin is reaching its "peak effect".

I am guessing that if you had been able to get a test before that shot this morning, his BG would not have been too much higher than the 66, and we probably would have suggested that you not give insulin on a number that low. Which is why the people who saw this earlier hopped onto the thread, so you would be aware of the situation and possible "emergency" that could take place.

 

OK, I think I'm getting it.

Even though the shot should drive the number down, it wouldn't likely do it that quickly (2hr after shot), so the pre-shot number was probably low to begin with. The 1/2 can probably boosted the number, but the only real way to tell is by confirming a pre-shot BG level.

I'm filling out the Spread Sheet. I suppose the pre-shot should go in the +11 column in that it is 11 hours after the AM shot, and 1 hour before the PM shot?

 

Am I correct in assuming that Bandit will get his preshot BG test in about 2.75 hours from now?
(You'll let us know what that # is before you shoot any insulin, right?)

 

The "preshot" number would go in the columns marked AMPS and PMPS. Most people will test the BG, then feed, then give the shot (assuming the BG number is high enough to warrant giving a shot). A 5-10 minute sequence of events.

Yes, the shot will drive the number down, but usually not until "onset" happens, usually 2-3 hours after the shot.

Here is what you would see in a "normal" 12 hour cycle:

AMPS/PMPS - the number would normally be "free from food", in that food shouldn't be given in the two hours prior to getting a preshot test. That way you know that carbs from the food aren't influencing the number
+1 to +2 - The number might rise during this period. Because the food will be pushing the number up before the insulin starts to push it down
+2 to _+3 - Prozinc should be reaching the onset point, where it will start pushing the number down
+5 to +7 - The insulin should be having its biggest effect, and the BG should go as low as it will likely go that cycle and reach "nadir".
+8 to +12 - The BG is most likely coming up because the insulin should start to wear off.
+12 - that would be AMPS or PMPS, when it's time for the next scheduled shot.

Of course, lots of things can change, it wouldn't always look this simple. Food given during the cycle can affect the numbers. Sometimes onset and nadir will happen earlier or later than expected. Duration might be longer or shorter than 12 hours. But in a perfect world, that's what a PZI/Prozinc cycle should look like.

 

So, Kevin, we probably expect a high number tonight (could be in the 300 range?). But it is most likely a bounce from the low numbers today. A bounce is when the body perceives a lower number than it is used to and releases extra glucose, making the number bounce up.

Regardless I would reduce the dose. Did the vet suggest reducing the dose?

 

66 was a couple of hours after the AM shot.

He was a 154 at 7:00pm PMPS.

 

So he dropped from the number earlier this afternoon? I would skip tonight. It is unusual for the numbers not to climb after a low like today and he is still lower than we would suggest a new diabetic to get insulin.

Tomorrow he probably will be high, if you skip tonight. I think I would still reduce the dose to one unit. Then, you can raise slowly and carefully based on your numbers at home.

What do you think?

 

Hey, that 154 is a very good blue number. But you will want to monitor him tonight, given that we really didn't know what his preshot # was before you gave him the dose this morning.

Is that correct, what I'm seeing in his SS: Did you just give him 2 units tonight?

 

Crap the wife just gave him his shot, and feed him.

What should we do? I'll test him in a few hours and make sure it's not too low. Wife held him this time around and it was a lot easier.

 

Ok. For future reference - as mentioned earlier - we don't recommend shooting at below 200 when you're new at this - but it's okay, Kevin.
I'd like to see you test him at +2, and then we'll go from there when we see that BG#. (If his # is rising, that's a good sign.) But this cycle we will still need to make sure he doesn't drop too low later overnight, either.

Don't worry, we'll hang out with you on this.

 

How much? 2 units? You are going to test every hour or so, monitoring carefully. If he drops lower than 80, I'd start giving him some gravy off the high carb gravy food. (Normally you could wait until the 70s, but he is likely to be sensitive to insulin and may drop faster than usual.). You want to give him little bits of gravy so he will eat when you need him to bring up his numbers, not a big meal.

Do you have gravy food? Karo syrup or honey? If not, I'd go get some.

 

Did Bandit eat a full meal before that dose? How much food was that, please?

 

Sorry, Sue's right - you probably want to start checking earlier than that, given the situation you ran into earier today - like test him around +1 or so (just to be really on the safest side here).

 

Hi Kevin! It's been a rough day, I'm sure, but I'm with everyone else. I'd get some tests in and make sure that you have karo or honey as well as gravy food in case you need to steer.

 

154 was before shot.

Full meal/can after shot.

I've got karo syrup, ready to go.

 

That's great that you've got syrup handy. We'll see what the #s tell you to do ...
(Looks like you'll be getting in some good testing practice tonight.)

 

Have you been able to get a test, Kevin?

 

I just got home. Looks like you've got plenty of help but I'll watch silently from the peanut gallery

 

97 as of +3 hours.

Found the vein quick, he's not nearly as upset because it was swift.

 

Glad to hear you got a test. It isn't super low but there isn't a whole lot of room to drop in the next couple hours. Did you give him a little something to eat?

 

I gave him a few crunchy treats, should I do a half can?

 

I'd give him maybe 1/2 can of the wet food. And I would get another test in 30 - 40 minutes. We want him above 68 and he doesn't have a lot of room to drop.

 

Sounds like a plan.
I'll be watching for your next test, Kevin.

 

I've got to hop off, but will check back here - just in case - when it's time to test my cat (around midnight-thirty in your eastern time zone).

 

Gave him the 1/2 can and just tested him (approx. 1hr later) and he's 69.

 

I see that Bandit is at 69. Did you just test him? Have you started giving him gravy food or karo syrup? He cannot go any lower at all. Since you took this at +4, Bandit could still go lower in the next couple of hours. You will need to give him gravy food now (about a teaspoon) or karo syrup now. Test in 20 minutes and get back to us. Karo syrup is only a short term solution and does not keep the BG up for very long.

 

OK, so this is what we have...

PMPS ~ 154
+ 3 ~ 97
+4 ~ 69

He ate a full can of food at PMPS. And then a 1/2 can at +3 or so?

 

I agree, gravy would be good about now. 69 is low enough. One thing though. You don't want to "fill him up" with the food. The gravy style would have more carbs, so you get more bang for your buck in terms of carbs boosting up the numbers. But you don't want his belly full in case you have to feed him again in 20-30 minutes either. So maybe 1/4 can?

 

yeah.I put a gob of karo on his paw. Will test soon.

 

lol, I'm sure that feels great for him! It'll take 20-30 minutes for the karo to show up on your meter

 

Is he acting okay? No spacey looking eyes or walking like he's dizzy?

 

Gave him a 1/4 can too.

 

nah he seems fine . A bit quiet for this time of the night. That's all.

 

ok good. test by midnight?
Just noticed you're in Lowell, MA. Any snow yet? I grew up and lived in a town toward Worcester called Grafton.

 

no snow yet. I'll test at mid night.

 

Carl - are you staying up?

 

Cindi,
I'm good for another couple of hours if need be.

 

Have you got another test yet?

 

He's kneading a blanket. Which is rare for him. Now sleeping on it. How long does the insulin push the BG down? Is it like half the 12 hour interval? If he's on the rise this next test are we out of the woods?

 

I'll test now.

 

Could you test him now? We need to make sure that he is higher than his last test.

 

Theoretically? 5-7 hours after the shot is when nadir is supposed to happen.
"Kneading dough! It's what I do!" That's awesome. Cats don't care what the meter says!

 

100

 

The nadir can and does vary; with ProZinc, we've seen it go later when the dose was too high.
You want the glucose to be rising, at a safe level, and past the nadir before relaxing.

For reference: How To Handle A Hypo.

You can give him a couple teaspoons of regular food at this point. Snag another test in 30 minutes to see if his glucose is holding steady.

 

Great!
So, you're at +5.5 with a rising number from food given an hour ago.

My opinion, others may differ...
I think you could give him a 1/4 can of food, make sure he munches it. Then leave a little out for later.

Going forward. On a preshot as low as a 154 on an AT meter, a 2u dose is too much. Many people might not even shoot at a number that low. At most, I think 1u max, if you can be around to keep an eye on Bandit's numbers. 154 on an AT is just about the top end on the "normal range" of BG as I understand it. As you saw twice today, there isn't much wiggle room when the bottom is about a 68.

 

Well 100 is much better. Isn't this a +5 test instead of +6? If it is a +5 test, I would check him one more time say in about 30 minutes. Sometimes the Karo will wear off and the insulin could take him down again. If it is a +6, he probably will be ok for the night but if you want to know for sure, just test him again in 30 minutes. We want it now to rise above 100 instead of drop again. I would leave food out for him tonight.

Now for tomorrow morning, it usually is going to be high. You probably will not want to give your usual dose because this number is considered a bounce for going down too low. I believe Sue mentioned 1u but I would jump on this forum and ask for advice before you shoot.

 

When I was posting the 154 preshot number my wife called to me from the kitchen and said "you want me to give him his shot". I just reacted to the question with an affirmative. Next time I'll pay closer attention to the numbers. I wasn't thinking the 154 was at the end of the insulin's effectiveness.

I'm going to sleep, my wife will wake me when she gets up for work in a few hours. I'll leave another 1/4 can down for him in the interim.

All in all, I'm encouraged.

Thanks so much to everyone tonight.

 

Also, from going pretty low, it is possible he could be more sensitive to insulin and reuire less than before.

 

The Dr. felt another brand of insulin might be in order, but it's awfully expensive. I forget the name.