Freckles/Judy - 01/27 PMPS 232, 216@+2, 191@+3, 167@+4

Judy and Freckles

Judy and Freckles

Member Since 2019
Yesterday's post

Haven't seen much blue on this dose. We did have a FS on cycle 1. Looks like I'll be increasing Freckles' dose to 7u tonight? She managed to get into some human stew last night that was left sitting on the counter, so I'm sure that didn't help her numbers at all.

Second question - I'm wondering if I should be talking to my vet about switching to Levemir? It seems that's the trend when cats start getting higher doses. I'm not sure of the reason for switching other than Lantus is an acid base and can sting some cats - any other reasons?

@Wendy&Neko and @Marje and Gracie what are your thoughts?
 
Yes on the increase.

As for Levemir, a couple reasons besides the Lantus sting. I think you mentioned skin twitching earlier? Another reason, which doesn’t particularly apply to Freckles, is often cans get a bit better duration, and are flatter on Lev. Pamela’s Amethyst being an extreme case of that if you haven’t looked at her SS yet. And next, if there is IAA present, a switch in insulins can confuse the antibodies and get a good response to the new insulin. And finally, if caregivers want to starting using R insulin as a bolus, then Lev’s nadir timing is better suited for it. R is a whole other topic on itself.

I have seen cats on Lantus on quite a bit higher doses than Freckles. I didn’t switch until after reaching Neko’s max dose and on the way down again. There is a later onset and nadir, which personally suited me better, wished I had switched earlier. But for some people the later times don’t work. I think you have to decide if there is a sting present and decide based on that.

I also think talking to your vet about testing for IAA and acromegaly should be up on the list.
 
Thanks Wendy.
Wendy&Neko said:
I think you mentioned skin twitching earlier?
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Yes, sometimes she twitches and other times there is no reaction at all. I'll have to start noting what injection site she twitches at.

Wendy&Neko said:
There is a later onset and nadir,
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The earlier onset and nadir suit me better as I'm usually headed to bed around Freckles' pm nadir time (+4 or +5).



Wendy&Neko said:
a switch in insulins can confuse the antibodies and get a good response to the new insulin.
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Wendy&Neko said:
I also think talking to your vet about testing for IAA and acromegaly should be up on the list.
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I did speak to my vet on Jan 10 regarding testing for IAA and acromegaly, when Freckles was in for her dental. He didn't feel there was a need for testing then but when I asked about switching insulins he thought that a switch to a different type (maybe he said Prozinc or Caninsulin - can't remember but it wasn't Levemir) may be in order. When I posted what the vet said regarding insulin, someone said that it was a step backwards rather than forward (I can't find that thread right now).

The vet also said that her numbers weren't "...that bad". I agree that her numbers have come down, but I would sure like to see them down lower!
 
I practically had to arm twist my vet to get the tests done. She consulted the local internal medicine vet who thought you didn’t need to test until dose of 10 units. :rolleyes: I asked her to humour me. Earned a lot of credo when both came back positive. The RVC study showing one in four diabetics has acromegaly had a average dose of 7 units, some as low as 1. Yup, one unit acros. Loudogg has IAA and never got up to 4 units. There are probably more, but most people don’t test until at 6 units and far less research has been done there.

And yes, Caninsulin or Prozinc would be going backwards. Less duration. We get people on those insulins switching to the L’s, not the other way around.

Freckles numbers are good for a caregiver that doesn’t test. Which is probably what your vet mostly sees. It’ll be easier on her kidneys if you can get more blues, less higher yellows.
 
@Wendy&Neko called the vets and spoke to technician and she will get me the necessary info about sending blood sample to Michigan State University (that is the only place that does the testing for acromegaly and IAA right?). I forwarded the 2014 WSAVA Congress paper highlighting recent research.

Also relayed my interested about trying Levemir, so I will see what the response is. Sometimes I get better results by speaking to the tech than speaking to the vet. :rolleyes:
 
Yes, on MSU. Only other option is England, shipping likely more pricy to there. And they don’t test for IAA. It’s only a $15 add on, well worth getting if blood is going there anyway. You are near Saskatoon?
 
Judy and Freckles said:
@Wendy&Neko called the vets and spoke to technician and she will get me the necessary info about sending blood sample to Michigan State University (that is the only place that does the testing for acromegaly and IAA right?). I forwarded the 2014 WSAVA Congress paper highlighting recent research.

Also relayed my interested about trying Levemir, so I will see what the response is. Sometimes I get better results by speaking to the tech than speaking to the vet. :rolleyes:
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Hi, I just wanted to chime in and let you know you are doing the right thing. Testing for acro before switching insulin gave me a lot of answers. I ended up moving to levimir after Yoshi tested positive for acro. All the best :bighug:
 
Judy and Freckles said:
LOL Just reread this and just to set everyone's mind at ease we are not cannibals! :facepalm:
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How funny!!

I have to agree on the testing. I also am a big believer in Lev being a great insulin. It does take some getting used to but it also worked great for Gracie even tho she was low dose. I also really like the way R works with it and if Freckles is acro or IAA, R is great to have in your toolbox.
 
Thanks for the information from everyone!:)

Stressedcatmom said:
Testing for acro before switching insulin gave me a lot of answers.
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So it's better to be tested prior to switching insulin? Why is that?

Vet tech emailed me back and gave me prices for testing for acromegaly and IAA so I think the vet is game. I'm also wondering if it would be advisable to also get the phosphorus tested again with the same blood draw as being used for the acromegaly and IAA - seeing as the first blood panel showed high phosphorus and phosphorus wasn't tested on the second panel.

Thoughts @Marje and Gracie and @Wendy&Neko?
 
Judy and Freckles said:
Thanks for the information from everyone!:)


So it's better to be tested prior to switching insulin? Why is that?

Vet tech emailed me back and gave me prices for testing for acromegaly and IAA so I think the vet is game. I'm also wondering if it would be advisable to also get the phosphorus tested again with the same blood draw as being used for the acromegaly and IAA - seeing as the first blood panel showed high phosphorus and phosphorus wasn't tested on the second panel.

Thoughts @Marje and Gracie and @Wendy&Neko?
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They won’t test it on the same blood panel but the vet could fill a tube from the same draw to redo the superchem. If your vet has equipment in office, they might be able to run just P.
 
Marje and Gracie said:
If your vet has equipment in office, they might be able to run just P.
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Ok. Good to know. Thanks Marje. Yes, the vet has a IDEXX machine at his clinic. I will ask about this.


Judy and Freckles said:
So it's better to be tested prior to switching insulin? Why is that?
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I really need to start rereading my posts so they make more sense!! lol. It's better to be tested for acro and IAA prior to be switching insulin? Why is that?
 
Judy and Freckles said:
Ok. Good to know. Thanks Marje. Yes, the vet has a IDEXX machine at his clinic. I will ask about this.



I really need to start rereading my posts so they make more sense!! lol. It's better to be tested for acro and IAA prior to be switching insulin? Why is that?
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For me; if I switched insulin without knowing whether or not he is acro, Yoshi would still be high and I wouldn’t know the root cause. Once he was positive, I knew better what I was dealing with.
 
Judy and Freckles said:
I really need to start rereading my posts so they make more sense!! lol. It's better to be tested for acro and IAA prior to be switching insulin? Why is that?
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I don’t know the answer to that question. IMHO, it doesn’t matter. As long as you have the tests done, then you know the root of the issue. It doesn’t really matter what insulin she’s on when you test.
 
Judy and Freckles said:
Ok. I understand, but I was thinking if I switched insulin and Freckles' numbers came down, wouldn't that be indicative of IAA?
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Not necessarily. We have had a few cats that just took a high dose of insulin but weren’t acro or a IAA. Once they hit that good dose, they can come down suicidal. Hahaha. I meant they came down fast.
 
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Judy and Freckles said:
but I was thinking if I switched insulin and Freckles' numbers came down, wouldn't that be indicative of IAA?
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Not necessarily. But knowing a cat has IAA prepares you for the possibility,mane exercise caution.
Marje and Gracie said:
We have had a few cats that just took a high dose of insulin but weren’t acro or a IAA
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in my time here, I have nothing seen a cat tested and found negative for both IAA and acromegaly (or Cushings) and be over 6 units.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Not necessarily. But knowing a cat has IAA prepares you for the possibility,mane exercise caution.

in my time here, I have nothing seen a cat tested and found negative for both IAA and acromegaly (or Cushings) and be over 6 units.
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There were a couple before you came like Randi’s Max was up to 6u. She never had him tested though but he wasn’t diabetic long enough to have IAA and once in remission, he stayed there. It seems to me I remember one other like that but can’t think who it was.
 
Ok. So it is that rare to be up over 6u and not either be acro or IAA. I see why the emphasis on getting tested then.

Wendy&Neko said:
in my time here, I have nothing seen a cat tested and found negative for both IAA and acromegaly (or Cushings) and be over 6 units.
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Is Cushings something else to be tested for or is that part of the acromegaly test?
 
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