frustrated

I'm not really sure where to post this so I'm going with this one. I live in a household with 4 cats and a dog. 2 of the cats I board for someone else while he is in law school. However, in January he will be taking them back until summer when he goes back to Washington D.C. (I don't like them going back and forth but I've explained this to the owner and hes going to do what he wants)

Angus is the kitty I'll be talking about. Angus is 10 years old. Neutered male. I've been boarding him since 2005 off and on. In 2005 he weighed a nice 14ish pounds and was a very happy cat, but in September of this year, I noticed that he was losing weight. He had to get his shots anyway, so we took him in and I told the vet of my concerns of his recent weight loss. He weighed 12.6 lbs at this point (but I don't know when he started to lose weight) The vet said it could just be a seasonal thing. wait a month and come back to me if he's lost more weight. (the owner wanted to stay with this vet because he is cheap, and overall he's done a good job with other peoples pets) So a month goes by and I weigh angus on our home scale with my husband getting on weighing himself and then getting off and then weighing Angus there didn't seem to be much change maybe an ounce? I didn't call the vet. About three weeks later I saw that Angus was skinnier and I could feel his bones so we weighed him again and he was 10.6 lbs. I almost fainted right there. I alerted the owner but finals week was upon us and he was very diligent that I not go to the vet without him. (a few times I almost went out the door but I didn't know what the legal implications could be) we went on that friday, and the vet said that it wasn't a very good day to get blood because fed x wouldn't be able to take it after we left because he'd been there already. (yes, I gave this huge lecture to the law guy about how he needed to let me take him earlier in the week) At first we all thought it was hyperthyroidism. So the next monday I took him in and the vet called back 2 hours later saying when he prepared the blood for the mail the blood was very fatty and he tested the glucose and it was 2 times what a normal cat should be (even for car rides) I kept asking him "should i change his food, should he be on insulin should he eat more or less?" the doctor said he wanted to wait for the thyroid test to come back which was another 2 days which was negative. Finally, that thursday which was Last thursday in fact The law guy and my husband took him to the vet (I had just had surgery and couldn't go) They came in feeling glad and like it was going to be easy. (I was very skeptical of this because i've worked in vets offices before and I know how something can seem and then go very wrong) We got W/D Science Diet for the complex carbohydrates and Humulin N (now I'm reading this may not be the best option) These are really small needles and its past midnight and I can't figure out what the dosage is in my head here so I'm going to write it out for you. Its a 3/10 cc syringe with 30 units in it. He is having us give Angus 3 little lines of insulin. what is that?.... .03cc's? Anyway I give that to him twice a day every day at 12am and 12pm. I was doing it in the scruff but I'm going to start doing it in the hip area. Afterwards he gets some fancy feast wet food (I have 4 cats here give me a break on the cheap wet cat food here....). Thats the story....Now, here is what I'm seeing that I'm having a hard time interpreting.

He's still drinking alot of water, and when he eats the wet food he really wants to eat all of it. He still seems to be losing weight and I'm going to check him tonight (i know, your not supposed to rely on your household scale but this one was exactly on when we checked it with the vets office) Hes getting to be like one of those 20 year old cats that have no fat left and all you can feel is bones. I checked his hydration levels with the pulling of the skin and its about 2 seconds to lie flat. Its christmas eve now and I'm not going to rack up ER charges. When I changed the litter box last night all the liter was just soaked. i change them frequently (completely change them) The one thing I'm upset about is that the vet didn't tell them to get a blood meter, or what to look for if he is in trouble. Like, I'm not really sure whats going on right now. He doesn't look "sick" but he looks like hes trying to figure out what in the world is going on and definately doesn't look like the same Angus I knew earlier this year. He doesn't look like he feels very good. The Law guy is in new mexico right now and believes that when I say Angus is doing good right now that if angus isn't doing good the next day he questions why such a change in one day. I try my best to explain it in english and non veterinary terms but he just doesn't get it.

I guess I should check his gums too. Hold on Ill check weight and gums and write it down so you don't have to wait for a reply. okay according to my scale he weighs 11.2 pounds. Again, my scales have been right so far but I'd like to have my husband weigh himself and check tomorrow as well and then again at the vets office whenever we go back. his gums are pink. He is however sitting at the water bowl and has been for quite some time.

Any ideas where I am going wrong? Any ideas what to do (other than go to the vet on christmas day or a sunday) I know that the Law guy was going to take him to the vet again when he got back so like the first days in January. Thanks to all-
Lily

 

Hi Lily and welcome to FDMB

During the early days of diabetes treatment - the kitty is literally starving - they can eat-eat-eat but without insulin, all the food energy (sugar) goes out in the pee.

Insulin takes the sugar from the blood and feeds it to the muscles.

The excess sugar that goes out in pee slowly damages the kidneys over time.

There are better insulins available, but you have Humulin N. It is better than NO insulin.

first - the shots - 3 units is a pretty high dose -- we recommend starting at 1u every 12 hours and work up if needed.
The insulin just needs to go under the skin (subcutaneous aka subQ) rather than into the muscle (IM or intramuscular). So you may want to inject more forward on the kitty.
Lift the skin where it is loose and poke the needle into the gap between the skin and the muscle.
Use a new syringe for each shot because the tiny needles dull very quickly.

you can feed any high protein - low carb canned food with good results, and all your cats can eat the same food. Google "Janet & Binky's Food Charts" and choose flavors with less than 10% carbs. The canned food list is split into OLD and NEW because it got very long. Check both if you can't find your local brands.

It is very important that the kitty eat before you inject Humulin N -- it starts acting pretty fast, and if the kitty has not eaten or pukes -- the N can cause Hypoglycemia (low blood sugar)

 

Thanks for the reply.

I knew how to dose him just from working in a vets office but I appriciate the run through again as I was reading I was checking off things in my head making sure I was doing it correctly.

Now, the vet says one thing and this forum for diabetic cats is saying another and I'm not sure who to listen to.
The vet says to put the insulin in the scruff because the hips are too meaty (of course I'd do it SQ)
The vet says to feed wet food AFTER he gets the shot so its something to look forward to, but your saying to do so before?

I understand completely that the sugar running through his kidneys like it is can ruin his kidneys (I've had a cat who had ethlyne glycol poisoning from people painting our house and I saw what it did to his kidneys) So I suppose my question here is if he's continuing to pee that much how do I slow it down? and my next question is if 3 units is kind of high obviously without doctors recommendation I wouldn't want to move it down any without seeing what his blood sugar levels are...I guess maybe monday.. well monday is full for me so Tuesday, I should call and maybe discuss the dosage and maybe go get a glucose monitor? I'm wondering if this vet had alot of experience with diabetic cats. Its fine if he didn't I'm glad he was willing to treat Angus.

Many thanks to all-
And happy christmas eve-
Lily

 

Hi Lily,

Phoebe gave you lots of good advice. I would suggest that you post over on the Feline Health page as few people on this forum use Humulin and very few people post on this page. Copy this thread by highlighting the http address at the top of this thread. Then go to Health (viewforum.php?f=28) and start a new topic. Copy this thread into it.

It is hard to hear conflicting advice from strangers on the internet. I like my vet but she had not dealt with many diabetic cats. This forum has helped regulate and get hundreds of cats into remission this year alone. Vets are like gps - they know a little about a lot of things. We know a lot about feline diabetics and our protocol works. When my Oliver was diagnosed, it was at Christmas. My vet told me to give 4 units of insulin twice a day, keep feeding Science Diet dry and see her in January. Thank goodness I came on this site, started hometesting, realized it was way too much insulin, changed his diet. Every cat is different, but he was off insulin in 6 months. My vet was amazed; she had not heard of hometesting and the value of wet lo carb food.

Hometesting is the other part of this puzzle. Here is a good beginning site: Newbie hometesting site and a video: Video for hometesting You will need these supplies:

A human glucometer. Any one that sips and takes a tiny sample is fine. The meters are often free at drug stores; it’s the strips that are expensive. You can, however, buy them on ebay at less than half the price of stores. Lots of people here also like the ReliOn from Walmart. It is an inexpensive meter and its strips are the cheapest around.

Lancets and a lancet device. Usually, until the ears “learn” to bleed, a 25-26 gauge is good. Any brand will work.

Ketone strips. (Ketostix) Just like human diabetics use. You will sometimes need to test urine if the numbers are high.

Rice sack. Make this out of thinnish sock, filled with raw rice or oatmeal and then knotted. You heat this in the microwave until very warm but not hot. Then heat the ears before poking.

Also nice to have. Flashlight: so you can look at the ears and find the little capillaries that come off the vein running down the ear. Vaseline: Put a tiny smear where you want to poke. It will help the blood bead up.

We have taught hundreds of people over the internet to test their cats at home. We would love to help you help this kitty you have in your care.