Frustration from HK! Cannot bring the figures down!

I am a new member from Hongkong. I have a multiple cat houehold with 21 cats. They were all stray kitties before & now my family. Rosy is 12 & confirmed diabetic in Dec when I found her loosing a lot of weight. My vet did not support home testing ( which I found out from this forum, wished I had known earlier) & is conservative with his prescribtion. Rosy had a blood test in Dec with the blood sugar reading at 500. vet recommended Lantus pen insulin jab of 1 unit per day. Rosy made no improvement & her clinical sign alarmed me to take her to the vet twice a mth. The vet said her figures were still high . Lantus increased to BID 2units a day. Because of multiple cats, I have free feeding of dry food & canned served once each morning. Steamed chicken fed every evening. My cats love the dry food since they were fed dry food when they were young living in shelters. I tried to increase Rosy's diet to canned food but she developed diahrrea (creamy soft stool). I had to stop on the increased canned food.
Since last wk, I noticed she goobble on her food, excessively drinking & peeing... She's bearing walking, her hind legs are dragging. I started on home testing since yesterday. Had tried to download the spread sheet but was unable to achieve doing so. Please bear with me on these figures...

26/2
11:00 preshot 28.6 ( gave 2 units)
14:38 30.6
16:54 26.3
19:07 31.4
22:30 begin giving her 3 units of the Lantus insulin pen

27/2
10:36 preshot 28.8
16:13 32.4

I am very frustrated because why is her numbers so high after the increased shot? I am very afraid of loosing her because she's such a sweet girl. She beared with me despite my clumciness of those multiple pricks... Am I too impatient for the med to work?

Please help me!


helen

 

Re: Frustration! Cannot bring the figures down!

I can't advice you on the dosing, but hope others will come along.

The problem with her back legs is called diabetic neuropathy and will resolve once you find the right dosing for her.

 

Re: Frustration! Cannot bring the figures down!

Here is the conversion of the numbers, so others have it easier to help out


Feb 26th

AMPS 11am - 515 - 2 U Lantus
+3.5 - 551
+6 - 473
+8 - 565
PMPS 10.30pm - 3 U Lantus


Feb 27th

AMPS 10.30am - 518 - 3 U Lantus
+6 - 583

 

Re: Frustration! Cannot bring the figures down!

Thankyou so much Ann& Scatcats! I am still figuring on downloading of the spread sheet Can you help to figure out the dosage on B-12? I got a bottle at GNC at 1000mg per tablet.

Helen

 

Re: Frustration! Cannot bring the figures down!

Unfortunately I can't help with the B12. We don't have it here in Sweden so I've never used it.

 

Re: Frustration! Cannot bring the figures down!

Welcome!

Is the B-12 you got Methylcobalamin B-12? There are different types of B-12 supplements, and it's only the Methyl B-12 that helps with neuropathy. Here's an example of the type you're looking for: http://www.amazon.com/Vitacost-Vita...UTF8&qid=1321902593&sr=8-13&fb_source=message. I ask because I think I've only ever seen Methyl B12 come in 5mg (5000 mcg) pills.

The recommended dose is 3-5 mg (3000-5000mcg) per day. If your kitty has pretty bad neuropathy, I would go with the higher end of that dose (5mg). The cat will just pee out the excess, so there's no harm going high. Getting her numbers down will also help.

What food are you feeding her? If she's still eating dry food, that could be keeping her numbers high. Diabetic cats need a low carb, canned diet. However, please do not remove the dry food unless you are testing and prepared to lower the dose--many cats see large drops in their blood glucose after switching to a low carb diet which can cause a dangerous hypoglycemic incident. Most cats on a low carb canned diet do not need much more than 1u of insulin.

Here's the link on how to set up a spreadsheet: http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207. If you can publish that in your signature, the members here can more easily give you advice on the Lantus dosing. Also, check out the stickies in the Lantus forum: http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewforum.php?f=9. There's a wealth of information there about Lantus and how it should be dosed. Dose changes for Lantus should be done in .25u-.5u increments so as to not miss the cat's ideal dose. Too much insulin can keep Blood Glucose just as high as too little insulin. Are you using the needles that come with the Lantus pen, or a regular syringe? In order to do the smaller dose adjustments, we recommend the .3cc, 8mm syringes with half unit markings. You draw the insulin out of the pen with the syringe just like you would a vial.

 

Re: Frustration! Cannot bring the figures down!

Thankyou for your reply Julia!
I've just found out I got the "wrong type" of B-12 ohmygod_smile I think I'll need to finish it myself I'll order a few btls from US which will take at least 3 wks to arrive Hongkong.
Rosy is still having free feeding of dry food whole day plus 1/3 of a canned food in the morning. Steamed chicken was fed every evening. I understand the need to switch her to canned food but she developed creamy soft stool when I tried to give her more on canned food last wk. Antibiotics was prescribbed by the vet & she was put on the Hills w/d dry. Her soft stool & diarrhea cleared. This wk I tried again to increase on canned & her stool became soft again.
Because of my multi cat environment I cannot take away the dry food. Rosy is eating & drinking non stop!
We don't have that many low carb canned food in HK & I am worried about her having a diarrhea. Is the Wiskas Ocean Fish a better choice than the dry w/d food she's eating?
I am using the Lantus pen with disposable needle. The increment is fixed as I turn the nob on the pen. I learned from here that forum users are using disposable syringes for drawing the insulin. This I may need to do so. My vet is not supportive on home testing but I've started on home testing since yesterday when I found out Rosy's numbers are so high.
At the moment I am trying hard to find a way to stabilize her.


Helen

 

Re: Frustration! Cannot bring the figures down!

Because of the dry food, you are likely to need a lot of insulin. Do the best you can to keep the amounts of each food type consistent, otherwise the glucose is going to fluctuate a lot day to day, and probably within the day. That will make the insulin dosing a nightmare to adjust.

In the Lantus forums, there are sticky posts which it will help you to read.
They discuss how to use and store Lantus, as well as how to adjust the doses.

STICKY: LANTUS & LEVEMIR - NEW TO THE GROUP? PLEASE READ...

STICKY: LANTUS & LEVEMIR - TIGHT REGULATION PROTOCOL

STICKY: LANTUS & LEVEMIR - INFO, PROPER HANDLING, & STORAGE

 

Re: Frustration! Cannot bring the figures down!

Yikes...I would get rid of the dry W/D. That stuff is VERY high in carbs, and just about the worst thing to feed a diabetic cat. If you have to have a dry food around, the hills M/D is better, but I would really work on getting rid of the dry completely. You mentioned that loose stools are the reason why you stopped transitioning fully--maybe you could gradually raise the amount of canned food again and reduce the dry and see if she takes to it a second time? Some cats need to be eased into diet changes very slowly. The poop should firm up once she's used to the canned food.

Canned foods themselves should not cause loose stools. If she continues to have a loose stools after a week or so, perhaps there is an ingredient in the canned that she does not tolerate well. Many cats are allergic to fish, for example.

When reading the ingredient labels for foods, things that don't have any grains tend to be low carb. So look for something that has no wheat, soy, corn, or rice. There are some Whiskas flavors that are low carb, as well as Felix (if you have that brand there). Here's an international food list: http://binkyspage.tripod.com/nonusfd.html. Hopefully you might have some of the UK foods in Hong Kong?

 

Re: Frustration! Cannot bring the figures down!

hi Helen,

Well, let's see what we can do for you to help Rosy and her numbers....

First thing I will mention is that if you can't remove the dry food from Rosy's diet, she will continue with the high numbers, and you will need to give her much more insulin because of the dry food diet.
I am not sure if anyone has mentioned or not, but many cats are DIET CONTROLLED where they do not need insulin once they are switched to low carb canned food.
One of my cats, Shadoe, would have high numbers like Rosy is having if she got just a mouthful of dry food in her mouth.... I had to put the dry food for another cat in a place where Shadoe could not get. I don't think the change to wet food from dry would give her diarrhea so there could have been some other issue going on. Would it be possible to have Rosy try only wet food for week maybe?
If you can look for canned cat food that is a pate and not grilled or with gravy or sauce, I am sure the carbs would be lower than the dry food Rosy is eating now.
The food is pretty important, so it's something you should try to consider.

For your pen, people are not using the pen needles for their cats; they are getting syringes, the disposable single use ones, that have 1/2 unit markings on them. Can you see if you can get syringes to use?
I have attached a picture of a pen to show you where to insert a syringe to draw up insulin.
The dosing for Rosy may need to be in between full units so the dial will not be good for you.


I am so relieved to hear that you are home testing..... too many vets say home testing is not needed, but there are no human diabetics who don't test themselves at least a half dozen times a day, so why would an animal dr say you don't need to test your cat?
Good for you. What blood glucose meter are you using?
Now, for all of your testing, people around here record the numbers in s spreadsheet that others can see and be able to help you better.
Create your Spreadsheet

Because you are getting such high numbers for Rosy, see if you can get a container of KETOSTIX from a pharmacy so that you can test Rosy's urine for ketones.

The BG numbers from your testing are not like the ones most people here understand but there is a conversion tool you can use if you like.
BG Conversion Calculator


Now, if you have any of the vet food still left, maybe you can take it back and say your cat stopped eating it. The vet food is not good quality and it's very high in carbs, plus it's more expensive then the other better foods.

Be sure to post as often as you like and ask questions too.
I was thinking maybe you can add your location in the subject of the first message of this thread and someone may be able to help you with good foods to get that are near you.

 

Re: Frustration! Cannot bring the figures down!

I am so tired because of sleepless nights worrying about Rosy & reading materials on the web on how to help her. Now even my other cats are stressed sensing mummy's very upset...
Thankyou all so much for your patience & time to help me & Rosy. Yes. I'll try to increase her canned food again. Since they are having a small portion on the Wiskas in the morning & it was fine before, I will try with Wiskas again.
How do I keep on feeding her with canned food since she's always asking for food? Every time I feed her on canned I need to take her to another room where other cats cannot access the canned. I don't want to cage her. Is it much worse if she developed diarrhea & losing water? I am most scared of this. Feeding canned food will need her to change from free feeding to caging her with ample canned food. Will that be ALL she can eat on the canned? Hate to see her starving...
I did try to give her those no grain dry food hoping its low carb, but she's not eating since her other dry food is always around. This is very difficult in a multicat family where they used to have a buffet of food 24 x7.
Anyway, as for the Lantus, I think I'll need to keep on the current dosage since her numbers are high & I've just increased since yesterday. I need to work on the food for her.
Do I need to keep on daily poking her since her figures are on a constant high? As for the ketone stix, I've got a few pcs from a vet clinic & will take her readings today. I'm using the Bayer tester.
I am so afraid that her high blood reading is caused by other hidden causes eg cancer...this is suggested by my vet although he found nothing suspicious atm.
I'll keep my update here, she's too sweet for me to give up.

 

Re: Frustration! Cannot bring the figures down!

And looking at the international food list makes me realise cats here in HK are mostly fed on dry since we don't have much choice on canned. We have lots of "premium" small canned food but not not much choice on "big canned". We have Wiskas Ocean Fish, Chicken w Tunna etc. Friskies, the yellow canned also come in favor as Wiskas.

 

There is an alternative dry food if you have to have some to supplement but you would have to put all the cats on it to make it work and it also would be very expensive for so many. There's also a prescription Purina DM that is low carb, Evo makes a low carb and there is a list for dry foods also. Those are the two I know of that are fairly low other than the no grain ones. There are lots of no grain dry foods that may be low carb. All of these are premium foods though and will be expensive for so many. I hate to see a cat caged though. Diabetes may be a lifelong condition.

One of our members, Brian, made a wood box with windows that has a door that only a magnet can open. He put the magnet key on the diabetic cat's collar so only she could get in there and keeps her food in there. Maybe we can find that link to show you and you could build something like that to protect her all wet food. I'll go look for it. Are you handy or know someone who is?

Melanie & Racci

Edit: Here is the special food box: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=63851&p=691360&hilit=brian box food#p691339

 

I'm a stay at home mom for my cats. I can give Rosy her wet canned while fencing her from the rest. Since she is on constant craving for food, that will be difficult to provide unlimited serving on canned food. For her I'm willing to everything as long as that will make her better. Ive tried adding canned which lead to her diarrhea in the past wks, so afraid will hurt her even more. But anyway, I'll try again today.
I've seen the cat with key to access restricted in a video before. Our living space here is so small that putting another box in the room is near impossible. I'll not cage Rosy but I'll try to put the dry food to area she cannot access since she is unable to jump at the moment.
I'll try my best to work on the spread sheet. Do I need to do the daily pricking again. There is no risk of a hypo atm.

 

The only way you will know what the correct dose for Rosie is, is if you do the testing at least 3x per day. Before her shots, and at +6 hours after her morning shot which is probably her lowest point. Her dose is base on the lowest point of the day. That is why it is so important as well as it keeping her safe. She will get used to it and come running for her test to remind you if you make it fun and always give treats when you test. Most of our cats do.

There are also dangers when their bg is too high and they should be tested for ketones then too. You would not know when she is in danger or whether the insulin is working without testing her. Her neuropathy is caused by her bg being too high. Racci has that also but it gets much better with Zobaline (methyl B12) with no sugar.

As far as the diarrhea, go very slowly with her so she doesn't get sick. Just increase it a little at a time every day and let her get used to more wet food a little at a time so her body makes the transition without getting diarrhea.. Try a different food than the last time and if she starts to get it, go back and use less again for a day. Just do it slowly. Some cats are more sensitive than others. Don't let her diarrhea get bad. You'll have to find a happy medium for her and go slow.

My cat is a dry food junkie too. I have just got her switched over but she still prefers her dry Purina DM. I give it to her as a treat for her tests and medicine. Just a little bit like you would give treats. I still sometimes have to supplement her wet meals with it but it makes a tremendous difference in her bg, 100 points sometimes! I really try not to because of that. You would be very surprised at the difference. Racci had to go all the way up to 5 units because of the dry food.

Melanie & Racci

 

You might want to read this old thread for suggestions on foods available in Hong Kong: http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=9952&p=109545 It looks like Wellness is available there?

 

Re: Frustration! Cannot bring the figures down!

Don't you worry yourself so badly because you are right; the cats can sense it and will also get upset.
OK another thing about food. they are very hungry before getting regulated.
Both of my diabetic cats ate alot before I found their 'good' dose. Oliver was eating 30oz a day, and Shadoe was eating 24oz a day!!! They really acted like they were starving, but it is due to their bodies were not able to extract the nutrients from the food to run the body. NOW, they eat way less.... I think Oliver may be around 12oz and Shadoe less than that. I think it's a common complaint from most people when they first start on insulin and getting their cat healthy again.... the cats are always seeming to be hungry. Let Rosy eat a bit more and no, you won't need to keep her in a cage. because of your others, you may need to set her aside to be sure she gets her food, and you may want to watch that she does not eat any of the dry food because the dry food is causing her HIGH numbers!
I like the Bayer tester, that meter is my favorite. As for when to test Rosy, you want to test her just before every shot. You need to know that it is safe to give her a shot. So test her in the am before the morning shot, and also in the pm before her evening shot. Many people like to do a test just before bed because many cats have lower numbers in the evening. I think those 3 tests every day are pretty important.
Once a week or so, it's good to do a curve. You can test Rosy ever 2 or 3 hours between 2 shots, so you can see how the shot is working during that 12 hour period.
Here's how many cats will react to insulin over a 12 hour time:
How to do a Curve
Example of a typical curve:
+0 - PreShot number.
+1 – Usually higher than PreShot number because of the last shot wearing off. May see a food spike in this number.
+2 - Often similar to the PreShot number.
+3 - Lower than the PreShot number, onset has started.
+4 - Lower.
+5 - Lower.
+6 – Nadir/Peak (the lowest number of cycle).
+7 - Surf (hang around the nadir number).
+8 - Slight rise.
+9 - Slight rise.
+10 - Rising.
+11 - Rising (may dip around +10 or +11).
+12 - PreShot number.

Some cats have NADIR earlier than others and some have later. The insulin you are using does not last the entire 12 hours, so you are likely going to see the lowest number earlier, maybe around +4 or so, but you won't know until you are able to do a curve and see how Rosy is reacting to the N.

Don't worry; it's tough in the beginning, and we have all been so worried about out cats. We want to do what is right, but we don't really know what that is and we for sure don't want to hurt our cats and we want them better as soon as possible!

I want you to start watching for other things, other improvements. Too often, we focus on the numbers, the high numbers, but we have to watch the whole cat.
You should see Rosy look better, maybe a shinier coat, or more clear eyes. She may have a bit less urine in the litter box, and she may stop drinking gallons of water. She will start to act like the old Rosy.

 

Thankyou so much for all your help & encouragement! I'll keep on trying to stabilize her. I've ordered the Meth B12 from the online site but will take some time to arrive.
I started adding 1/3 of a canned Wiskas to her yesterday & she's having very smelly soft stool today. Tried giving her the Wellness One No grain Dry which she refused to eat at all! Maybe she's not that hungry after all? The canned Wiskas she loved & gobbled.
I gave her Sub-q 100ml this morning since water will be essential for the flushing of sugar from her body. Poor girl cried & struggled... :sad:

 

I would remove the dry food as it is adding to her high BG numbers.

For the fluids, you can try to use a smaller needle; the ones you have are likely size 18ga and that's a pretty large needle. Both of my cats hated it and tried to get away. Get some smaller needles from your vet, ask for 22ga UTW and you should not have as much problems. The fluids will drip in slower, but it will be easier on her.
Also, you can split the fluids into 2 sittings. Try giving 50ml in the morn and another 50ml in the evening.

 

Thankyou Gayle Shadoe & Oliver!

I am using a 21g 1TW needle for the Sub-Q She hated it when the water accumulated inside her body. I am injecting her at her scuff neck area. Did try on her leg part but her struggling was worse, maybe more painful because her read leg is already skin & bone.
I gave her 2 portion of Wiskas today now is only 2pm here ( let her to free access to the Wellness One no grain dry food which she refused to eat) Have to see how she react to the canned. I will feed her more water by syrnge in additional to the Sub-Q.
Just keep my fingers crossed on that she wont progress from the soft stool to diahrrea then I'll need to stop the canned & switch back.

 

Just wanted to say hi.

Give her body sometime to adjust to the canned food. It truly is the best thing for her & FD. Are you on a feeding schedule with her? When it's feeding time can you take her to the bathroom & shut the door? She then can eat all of her food & when she is finished & you let her out she might be less apt to want to eat anymore food/dry. It's going to be hard to regulate her on dry food. Once you get her BG #s down she might not act as hungry or want to eat as often. Also, her neuropathy might improve on its own once her diabetes are under control, but it might not. From what you described about her walking & her back legs it sounds bad. I am glad you got the methyl b-12 ordered.
Have you visited this website? It has some really good information.
www.catinfo.org

Jenn & Baxter

 

I am trying to feed her 4 small meal of canned food today. Yes she is isolated when eating so that the rest cannot get to her food. She seems better so far today ( now the time here is 5pm) Ive fed her 3 small portion of the Wiskas since this morning She seems not that hungry & thirsty now (maybe because she hated the Wellness One no grain dry on the table!) I'll do a blood test tonight before the shot to see how. Will update ! Tks

 

What happened? What happened? confused_cat
I was worried by Rosy's sleeping all day that I checked her reading. Just now it's at 16.1 (which is =290 @ +8)! ohmygod_smile This is a huge improvement from yesterdays! Her reading yesterday @+5 was 583 !
What did I do different? I gave her 100ml sub-q this morning at 9am. I took away her favourite w/d vet prescribbed dry food. I gave her free feeding on Wellness One no grain Dry which she never took. I gave her 3 small portion of canned food. Is that the crab Wiskas canned working? Or the 3 units of Lantus starting to work? or was she on a near empty stomach that had brought her numbers down? Now I pray that she wont have soft stool after the change so that I can keep on with the canned.

 

You are doing great! Keep testing her as often as you can because the change to canned food might cause her sugar level to go down quite a lot.

I would also give the canned diet a few days to settle with her, even if you see some soft stools. If she goes a few days on it and is still having problems, then you can re-assess (maybe she is allergic, or it doesn't agree with her for whatever reason), but sometimes it just takes a bit for the cat's system to get used to the new diet. If it is still an option for you (although I know she ended up eating all canned yesterday), you can try to transition her gradually onto the canned. Just give her a little more canned, and a little less dry, each day until she is eating all canned. That can be easier on their stomach whenever you are transitioning to a new kind of food.

 

The W/D is VERY high in carbs--I'm not surprised her blood sugar would drop once it's removed, even with dry food still in the mix. Please be very careful, however and keep testing several times a day. 3u is a rather high dose and change the diet can cause big drops in numbers. You want to make sure you're monitoring frequently to prevent a hypo incident.

 

All the other cats will benefit from eating canned food too, and then you wouldn't have to try to keep her out of it.

If you're really feelling adventurous, you might consider a raw food diet, following the recipe on Cat Info It could, depending on prices there, work out to be less expensive and easier to obtain.

 

OK your update makes me smile!

what happened? well, you removed some horrible food, that dry food, was causing Rosy to have horrible HIGH numbers!! so don't let her have any of the dry food and you may even find that she will be needing LESS insulin!

You are doing great, and making good decisions for her.... just keep her on the wet food, take away the W/d and Wellness dry, and test her before giving shots.... you may find that as she gets the dry food out of her system, she will need very little insulin.
Dry food can take up to 3 days to clear the body and show you good numbers, OK?

 

Re:

This is really frustrating! Just when I thought we are on the right track, her numbers shot up again!
Rosy had a few pcs of the Wellness no grain & a small portion of fresh steamed chicken filet at 9pm . Her pre shot number at 11pm is 32.1!! What did I do wrong? Why can't we stabilize her? Is there something wrong with her other than a generic diabetic case? I'll not give her the normal dry food for the night although she is asking for food now. She got to take the no grain if she's really hungry.
I think I'll soon go crazy!!

 

At pre-shots and +12 in the insulin cycle the insulin has run out and my Simba always goes high.

So stay sane

 

Thankyou!

May I know is free feeding a definite no no in this diabetic uncontrolled condition? In my multicat (21 cats)family, free feeding is the norm. Do I have to worry about not giving enough food to Rosy since we are in the transition period as I've took away her favorite dry food.

 

I only have 2 cats so feeding mine is easy, but BJM have 12 cats and should be able to give better advice on how she solved the feeding in her house with Spitzer being diabetic and the others not.

 

You can still free feed her. Just put a lot of liquid in the food so it doesn't get hard. She will think it's gravy if you mix it. That's what several of us do. Since you put the others food where she can't get it that shouldn't be a problem. You just have to make sure they can't get hers. ;-)

You're doing a great job!

BTW, When you test her before a shot, if her numbers go below 200 you should let us know so we can advise you on dose. 3U will probably have to be adjusted to a smaller amount since you are doing such a good job with her. Don't be alarmed at numbers going up and down. They all do that but especially new diabetics. If you look at my link for the ss you will see that Racci is still doing it.

Melanie & Racci

 

Since I don't want to cage her, that will be extra hard since they were used to having buffet served 24x7!

Thankyou for the encouragement! Everybody here are so helpful & kind! Im such a bad & clumsy mummy, 3 mths already I am still useless to help Rosy to get her figures down. Another sleepless night did not help her. Really want to give in to her craving for the food she love. Give her the food, it will poison her. Don't give her the food, it is so difficult to say no to that starving face. I'm also worried that too little food will hurt her. What if she refuse to eat ?
I would like to explain that the 3 units of Lantus I'm injecting maybe a different dose from the understanding here. I am using a Lantus pen with a disposable needle every time. The 3 units is by the fixed measurement from the tip nob on the pen.
I did not draw out the solution for injection. The 3 units is not a measurement from an injection syringe.

 

When you said you gave a few pcs of Wellness, are you talking about DRY food? If yes, those 'few pcs' may be causing part of the HIGH numbers. One of my cats CANNOT eat even just a few pcs or her numbers go very high.

If you mix half as much water into the wet food, the water will fill up your cat.

Now, in the start, your cat is used to the high numbers, and those numbers are 'normal' to your cat.
You give insulin and the numbers come down to better numbers, to numbers that are close to the healthy normal, BUT your cat feels uncomfortable with the good numbers; they feel bad.

So by the end of the 12hrs, you will see higher numbers again.
REMEMBER: Lantus is dosed on the LOWEST number in the 12 hours and not what the number is at shot time.

 

Yes those were Wellness Core no grain dry food which she's most reluctant to eat. I was unable to replace all her dry since I am afraid she'll get the creamy stool again from canned food. I am afraid I might be starving her.
Rosy was acting more like her normal self when her numbers got down. She stopped her crazy eating & drinking which was a good sign. Just like any mummy, it hurts so much to see her in constant hunger. Once the numbers soar, she wanted food & water. :cry:

 

Until you remove all of the dry food, you will very likely have high numbers.

If you have worries about the stool, then ask the vet about a cause, but by feeding the dry food you are causing her to have the high numbers.

Dry food is not good, so if you are worried about starving her, feed more wet food and also add water to the wet food to fill her up. When most cats first start on insulin, they eat LOTS more because their bodies are not able to extract the nutrients from the food that they need, so fee MORE wet food and NO DRY food at all.

If you want her numbers to come down lower where she was acting better, you cannot feed any of the high carb dry food, not even a few pieces.

 

Another morning another day! Good morning my lovely friends!

According to the vet, Rosy's creamy stool was caused by the increased on the canned food I gave her & bacteria found in her stool sample . This was 2 wks ago. Before this her stool was always normal. She was recommended to stop on canned & put on antibiotics for a wk. The condition did not improve & my vet recommended the w/d dry food which immediately stopped the creamy stool. That's the time when her condition got worse, she was eating the free feed on w/d.
I've learnt from the forum that the dry food with carb is slowly killing her.
Another thing I've recently learn is the feeding time in related to the Lantus jabs. I'd like to know how is your feeding schedule? Is my free feeding causing the fluctuation in the figure?

 

Canned food does not cause bacteria in stools. Why would it? However, the bacteria is likely causing the runny poo. The antibiotic should take care of the problem--I would not stop feeding the canned.

 

Yes yes! That's when I started giving the w/d dry food that in a week time Rosy became worse with her sugar problem. Although I was not home testing at that time, I noticed her excessive eating & drinking. Maybe to be fair to the vet & the Hills it's a coincident cat(2)_steam confused_cat
Rosy was having the creamy stool even when she's on antibiotics. It is the feeding on w/d that stopped the issue. Maybe she is intestinal sensitive to canned? :?:

 

Some cats are very sensitive to changes in their diet and need to go more slowly even if it means higher numbers. I don't know if Purina prescription DM dry food is available in HK but that is low carb for a dry food and if you give just a tiny bit & I do mean a tiny bit, it won't affect her numbers too badly. I have had to switch Racci from it to canned food. When Racci eats a full meal it can make a huge difference in her numbers, like as much as 100 points! But if I give her a few here and there handfed as treats, it does not affect her numbers much, she is still in the 100's and she knows if she eats her canned food she will get some afterwards and as treats and she doesn't get an upset stomach. Racci hated Core also. I disagree about trying to force it on her all at once if she has an upset stomach. Your vet probably has that food. You can get it online too but you'll pay freight that way. Just remember that it is a supplement, not a meal.

Also, antibiotics will give a runny stool also so just make sure you give plenty of water to make up for the water she is losing.

I feed Racci at least 3x a day and more if she wants. I feed her after her am test before her shot, after her +6 hour test, and after her +12 hour test before her shot. If you feed closer than 2 hours before a test it will affect the numbers. That's okay as long as you know they will be higher and that doesn't really matter. But for those 3 tests you don't want to affect them and want true numbers so I usually pick up the food 2 hours before those times. Otherwise I also leave out some watered down wet food.

 

I have a stool question for you. when you say creamy stool, are you talking about color or texture?
If you are talking about a lighter color, I think it should not be a concern.
If you are talking about looser stool, or diarrhea, that's a different thing.

If there is bacteria in the stool, there's your problem as the others have said, and I don't think that the Whiskas food could be the cause.. what about trying a different flavor of the whiskas canned food; maybe she does not do well with the crab flavor.... see if you can find a chicken or turken flavor wet food.

You mentioned that she is not eating the dry food, so there is no point in putting it out for her.

Just keep feeding the wet foods and testing her BG and recording the numbers.

 

Rosy is not having soft stool at the moment; fingers crossed. Ive started on giving her canned Wiskas since yesterday. Wiskas is one of the type my cats are all used to eat. Maybe I am not feeding her much on the canned that's why there is no soft stool so far.
Yes, that's what I am advised to do. Develop a new scheduled feeding time for her in related to the Lantus injection. Ive started today. When you say " If you feed closer than 2 hrs before a shot it will affect the numbers" ? I am advised to feed her half hr before Lantus shot. :?:

When I try to increase her canned intake a few wks ago, her stool became loose with form & shape, then next day became unformed mass. I took her to the vet found bateria in her poo sample. Prescribbed antibiotice for 2 wks. Situation became worse, then next like whipped cream in yellowish milk coffee colour. After this she pooed more often & the stool is in liquid form. I considered that a diahrrea & took her to see the vet. Vet prescribbed w/d since antibiotics did not stop her soft poo. She was not on any canned food at that time. Two days after the w/d, no more soft stool. I was so surprised.
Two wk after eating w/d her diabetic situation became worse. Excessive eating, drinking, peeing & her hind leg dragged.
Did I do something wrong?

 

Rosy is not having soft stool at the moment; fingers crossed. Ive started on giving her canned Wiskas since yesterday. Wiskas is one of the type my cats are all used to eat. Maybe I am not feeding her much on the canned that's why there is no soft stool so far.
Yes, that's what I am advised to do. Develop a new scheduled feeding time for her in related to the Lantus injection. Ive started today. When you say " If you feed closer than 2 hrs before a shot it will affect the numbers" ? I am advised to feed her half hr before Lantus shot. :?:

When I try to increase her canned intake a few wks ago, her stool became loose with form & shape, then next day became unformed mass. I took her to the vet found bateria in her poo sample. Prescribbed antibiotice for 2 wks. Situation became worse, then next like whipped cream in yellowish milk coffee colour. After this she pooed more often & the stool is in liquid form. I considered that a diahrrea & took her to see the vet. Vet prescribbed w/d since antibiotics did not stop her soft poo. She was not on any canned food at that time. Two days after the w/d, no more soft stool. I was so surprised.
Two wk after eating w/d her diabetic situation became worse. Excessive eating, drinking, peeing & her hind leg dragged.
Did I do something wrong?

 

Can somebody please confirm if I should give her food before the injection? I read it from here
confused_cat
http://www.bd.com/us/diabetes/page.aspx ... 01&id=7373

 

The Americans and Canadians that have replied to you, aren't up yet.


I would say you can feed her first and then give the insulin.

 

Most people just test blood glucose and inject the insulin while the cat is eating. You can certainly test and give insulin right after your cat is done eating but I wouldn't wait more than half an hour or so. For most people, it's just easiest to do everything while the cat is distracted with food. You don't want to feed more than 2 hours or so before giving the Lantus because the food can spike blood glucose levels.

With some types of insulins, you do want to feed some food a half hour or so before giving insulin and the rest of the food after giving insulin but that is not necessary with Lantus.

The BD web site has general guidelines of how to manage a diabetic cat. Some may not apply to the use of Lantus. I suggest reading the stickies at the top of the Lantus group to understand how to use the insulin with a cat: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewforum.php?f=9

 

ETA: When using Lantus, you don't want to give her food from 10 hours after the last shot until shot time. So, the last two hours in the 12 hour cycle, you do not want to feed. When you give the shot, after you test to make sure she is high enough to get insulin, then you can feed her. Sometimes, if my cat has an upset stomach, I will test first to make sure it is okay to give insulin, and then I will feed him to make sure he eats, and while he is eating I will give the shot.
Normally, I test, shoot, and feed, all within the same 5 minutes. Does that answer your question?

You don't want to feed in the last 2 hours of the cycle, so that the test you do before giving the insulin is not altered because of a food spike from just eating. So, test first, then shoot and feed, or then feed and shoot.

 

Thankyou! Will try to do as info.
and...Ive uploaded my spreadsheet at the below link:-
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AofnpS_gQdLmdHdnWmw3MVZIS0xqRHczS0VDWS1XV1E&output=html

 

Hi there,

I am not trying to give an advise here, but I want to ask you guys if the following idea makes any sens...
Wouldn't Caninsulin/Vetsulin be more appropriate for a cat that has BG levels like that? And especially if Tortie says that after an insulin shot the numbers dont get any lower?
I've read somewhere that Lantus was known to be a "softer" insulin that works on a longer period. As opposed to Caninsulin/Vetsulin that works right away (30% of the effect) and than degressively (70%) until the next 10 or 12 hours.
My vet told me that she doesn't recommend Caninsulin/Vetsulin for cats that have relatively "stable diabetes"cuz with that insulin it's harder to avoid that "rollercoasting" effect of the BGs levels. But for a cat like Tortie's I would think it is very important to get the numbers lowered as soon as possible. MAYBE a quicker insulin could help?

 

Sometimes when the high numbers are severe and it's necessary to get them down as soon as possible (in the case of diabetic ketoacidosis, for example), a faster acting insulin is used in conjunction with a slower acting insulin. However, something like Caninsulin/Humulin N does not work well by themselves in cats because of their metabolisms. Cats have metabolisms about twice as fast as people and dogs--so the Caninsulin does not have the duration of action needed to lower blood glucose consistently over the course of a 12 hr cycle. It usually only lasts about 4-6 hrs, where the longer acting insulins have a duration of 12 hrs in cats. There's a good chart on this page showing a Caninsulin curve: http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Caninsulin, vs. a typical Lantus/Levemir curve you can see here: http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Levemir. You can see that the second curve is much flatter--which is what prevents the "rollercoasting" effect you mention.

The problem with the high numbers here is twofold--first, there is still dry food in the mix which will keep numbers consistently high. Second, the dose was raised too quickly--dose increases should be made in .25-.5u increments instead of whole units. When you raise the dose in whole units, you are likely to surpass the cat's ideal dose. Too much insulin will keep numbers just as high as too little insulin, which is why it's very important to follow one of the recommended dosing protocols for Lantus--either Tight Regulation (which has the best remission rates), or Start Low, Go Slow.

 

You have brought up a good point about caninsulin working quickly in the front half of the cycle.
While Caninsulin/Vetsulin may not be great to use as your basal insulin because it will not last the full 12hrs since cats have faster metabolism, it can be used as an alternative to Humulin R as a bolus to assist when you are having high numbers around ps times, or rather, in the same situations as when many in the US and Canada use R.

In the beginning, it's very hard to see such high numbers, and it's vital to test urine as often as possible for ketones, but with such constant high numbers as Rosy is getting, Caninsulin would not be sufficient, and could be dangerous with ketones in the picture here.

On Rosy's spreadsheet, there are 2 columns labeled U if you can put the dose for the shot given in those 2 columns as opposed to the far right Comments column, it will be most helpful to those who are reading the spreadsheet.

Now, it looks like you have only 3 days worth of test numbers recorded so far, and all the numbers are during the am cycles. Would it be possible to get some test numbers from the pm cycles? It's almost impossible to know what is going on with numbers from only half days... many cats go lower at night, so with no test numbers, Rosy could be going low in the pm cycles and then bouncing back up higher during the daytime. I don't think that's what is happening, but we don't know because there are no test numbers to prove that theory right or wrong.

You did get a 26.3 and a 16.1 around mid cycle on the 26th and 28th, so you are seeing some movement to lower numbers a bit, but Lantus does not like the dose being changed all the time.... you need to stick to the same dose, for am and pm shots, for at least 3 or 4 days in a row.
If you want to go with the 3units at am and pm, fine. When the shed/depot is settled, you will start to see better numbers, but you will not see improvement if you feed any dry food at all and keep changing the dose.

Here are some DOSING guidelines to help you along:
"General" Guidelines:
--- Hold the initial starting dose for 5 - 7 days (10 - 14 cycles) unless the numbers tell you otherwise. Kitties experiencing high flat curves or prone to ketones may want to increase the starting dose after 3 days (6 cycles).
--- Each subsequent dose is held for a minimum of 3 days (6 cycles) unless kitty earns a reduction (See: Reducing the dose...).
--- Adjustments to dose are based on nadirs with only some consideration given to preshot numbers.

Increasing the dose...
--- Hold the dose for 3 - 5 days (6 - 10 cycles) if nadirs are less than 200(11.1) before increasing the dose.
--- After 3 consecutive days (6 cycles)... if nadirs are greater than 200(11.1), but less than 300(16.7) increase the dose by 0.25 unit.
--- After 3 consecutive days (6 cycles)... if nadirs are greater than 300(16.7) increase the dose by 0.5 unit.

Reducing the dose...
--- If kitty drops below 40(2.2) (long term diabetic) or 50(2.8) (newly diagnosed diabetic) reduce the dose by 0.25 unit. If kitty has a history of not holding reductions well or if reductions are close together... sneak the dose down by shaving the dose rather than reducing by a full quarter unit. Alternatively, at each newly reduced dose... try to make sure kitty maintains numbers in the normal range for seven days before reducing the dose further.

In case you have not seen the info on the shed, here's the info:
Lantus & Levemir – Insulin Depot –AKA- Storage Shed

There's a storage shed/insulin depot under your cat's skin. It has first dibs on the insulin. Once it is filled, the insulin that you shoot doesn't have to go into the shed. It can be used. The shed HAS to be filled before the Lantus or Levemir gets to use the extra on cat's BGs. So by skipping shot, or waiting too long to shoot, or giving a fur shot... the cat starts dipping into it's shed and the next shot or shots have to partially go to refilling shed before they can work on BGs.

When you get impatient and overfill the storage shed by upping the dose too fast, you get into a situation where at first it looks like nothing is happening because the shed is still filling up. Then you reach the point where it is totally full and yet you are still giving a dose that's too high. Now suddenly none is going into shed, because that is full. It is all working on the cat... and the numbers drop out on you.

Worse case scenario is when you over fill the shed/insulin depot... get very low numbers... then empty out shed by dropping dose too much... or having to skip the shot. Then you'll see high numbers from the combo of the effects of rebound and an empty storage shed/insulin depot. Most react by bumping the dose back up which overfills the shed/depot again resulting in a roller coaster ride to nowhere. Not the way to work this insulin.

~ written by jojo and bunny(GA) and Y

INSULIN DEPOT
One's subcutaneous "spare tank" of insulin, which has yet to be used by the body.
Because no insulin injection is immediately 100% absorbed by the body, the yet to be used insulin stays under the skin, the system drawing on this "reserve" as needed. Any such insulin effects that last after the insulin's expected action is over are also known as carryover in some literature.

If you're using only intermediate-acting or long-acting insulin alone (without any short-acting insulin), about 24 hours worth of insulin requirements are in your depot.

The larger your insulin dose, the larger the insulin depot in your subcutaneous fat tissue. Having a large vs smaller insulin depot means the effect of the insulin can be less consistent--more chance of it varying from day to day. This same insulin depot is the reason why it can take anywhere from 2-5 days to see any effect of insulin dosage changes.

This handy "extra tank" is also there to give you a hand if you miss or are late with an injection.

On the other hand, when you do miss an injection, your "spare tank" is very low by next injection time, and so the next injection may have less effect than expected!

So there's you info to explain why changing dose back and forth or too often will create problems with Rosy's numbers.

Rosy got a nice 16.1 mid cycle on the 3units am dose; keep on the 3units dose for a couple more days and if Rosy seems to stay around the 11.1 to 16.6 range in mid cycle, you can increase her dose by .25units, to a new dose of 3.25 units.

There are some cats who take a bit longer for their numbers to settle after a dose change; my Oliver sometimes took 3 days / 6 shots before I could see how a dose was working and if I needed to make a change.

Rosy is getting there; that 16.1 is a terrific number.
Just keep testing for ketones whenever you can and hopefully, this dose will begin to settle as Rosy's body gets used to the lower numbers.

Let's hope that the whiskas canned food is good for her now that her illness has been fixed with meds.

 

I'm sorry, I misspoke Where the bold writing is. I meant to say test. I always test on an empty stomach and feed before a shot. I was going too fast. I didn't mean to confuse you.

I'm so glad her diarrhea is getting better. There really is no reason to mess with the dry food then and make her numbers worse as Gayle said. That was just a last resort if she can't take the change all at once.

Melanie & Racci

 

Please don't say sorry my dear, I appreciate everybody trying to help me & Rosy in this fight. So far for these two days she did not have soft stool. It's a blessing as I can keep on my canned feeding. Sometimes in between meal, when she was most hungry crying for food that I gave her a few pcs of the non grain

dry.


Thankyou for that info. It's of great help to me to understand more. I've been taking in lots of material these couple of days & night. That really help me to understand more on Lantus & insulin jabs.
Rosy was recommended by vet to start her dose from 1 unit per day in dec. The dose was increased to to 1 unit x2 times a day after 2 week. The increment has been slow. I was not home testing at that period since the vet said no. The blood test done on Rosy was done on a pre shot & a +8. Blood was drawn from her vein on her front leg.
She was on a BID of 2units for a wk that I started on home test last Sunday (the starting date of the spread sheet). Then I raised the dosage.
The 3 units is a fixed dosage measurement from the nob on the Lantus pen. I did not draw out the Lantus & use a syringe. I am trying to figure out how my 3 units in comparison to the units as mentioned by everybody here. Please bear with me.

 

And, when you mentioned about the pm tests, do you mean testing after the 2nd shot? Her 2nd shot is at 11pm, that will have to get up in the middle of night to test her?
The rest of my 20 cats have been very stressed with what's going on with Rosy & the change in the food & feeding schedule. I really don't want to wake them up in the middle of night for home testing. We have small living space. My cats live together for easy caring for them. There is no separate room where I can take her for testing.
For the past 3 mths on Lantus, Ive been consistent with the shots. I shot her at 10:30 & 23 everyday. The canbe a plus or minus of 1/2 hr but not daily fluctuation.
Since my home testing this Sunday that I tried to change on her food & switch to canned.

 

tortie, you can test her just before the 11pm shot.

 

Tks! Will do that tonight. It's 5am here. Good morning! Because of the time difference, I've been keeping awake in the past couple of days trying to get in all the good advice from all my lovely friends here! Thankyou so much!

 

Oh, you need to take good care of yourself and get some good sleep too!

 

Just wondering but is there any way to change your shot times so that you can get at least one test after the 2nd shot?

If the 2nd shot were at 20 or 21, then you could get one test at 23 to see how the 2nd shot is working. That change would depend on whether you can give the 1st shot at 8 or 9am.

If at all possible, it's important to get a test just before bed to see how the shot is working, as many cats go lower overnite. That's why it would be good if your 2nd shot were more around 8pm or 9pm.

It would also be good if you can give Rosy a different treat, like maybe a bit of canned tuna or some pieces of raw or steamed chicken; these treats would be better for Rosy than those few pces of dry food you give her if she acts hungry. You can always give her a spoon of the wet food as well; it could be that she really needs more food. Cats are very good at self regulating; they will eat when they need to eat, so acting hungry may mean that she needs a bit more wet food. Try mixing some water into the wet food you are feeding all the cats as they will find the water is good for them and they will feel fuller longer.

Keeping track of Rosy's test numbers on her spreadsheet will be helpful to you to see how she is doing and if she needs more or less insulin.

 

I'll try to do a +2 after the 2nd shot to see her figure.
I've restricted her to 3 canned meal a day with loads of water added to the food. Stopped her from eating free feeding at the buffet table (5 different dry food free feeding 24x7) where her buddies were still enjoying the serving.
This is very difficult as I don't want to cage her & at the same time she is constantly asking for food.

 

You've mentioned the tight space, so I though I'd check - do you have shelves or some tall cat trees so the cats can get out from underfoot? That's a way to spread them out a bit more without taking lots more floor space (ie think vertically)

Also, if there is enough head room, placing some bricks or cement blocks underneath the feet of beds and such to raise them 4-8 inches, can provide some additional space underneath those, for cats, or storage.

 

I've built in cat corridor for my furry kids in the sitting room. They love going up there playing, but as they age, they are not energic . I've alot of vertical space for them but they all wanted to stay close. Only 3 pf them are male, the bulling & fighting is not much. People here abandon female kitties & keep the male. Still a lot never desex their cat. My cats were all stray. Some were from the same litter from stray mom. I think families or sibblings should not be separated that's how I've so many. 15 of them are over 10 yrs old while the other 5 are 6 yrs old. :lol: I've stopped adopting for a few yrs already. Would love to but I cannot manage anymore. Don't worry about the space for my cats. They are well taken for. It's the parents (me & my poor husband) who is having a tiny sleeping area :mrgreen:

 

:lol: That's funny Tortie. I think at this time while Rosey has high numbers she may need another wet meal. A lot of diabetic cats eat 4x a day especially in the beginning when they are not regulated and have high numbers. Once they get regulated they are not as hungry and don't pee rivers anymore or drink as constantly. It wouldn't hurt to give another meal a day and always make sure she has lots of water. Diabetics drink a lot usually.

It's wonderful of you to take in so many. It's so hard for them on the street. They're very lucky to have you

Melanie & Racci

 

Hi tortie,
just wondering on the size of your 'cans' of food you are feeding Rosy. Are they 3oz, or 5.5oz or 13oz? In the beginning, most of us have had our cats eating a great deal more than usual because they're not capable of extracting the nutrients they need from the food, BUT as they get more regulated, getting to the dose of insulin they need, their appetite drops off.
My Oliver once was eating around 30ounces a day or more! Now, he's closer to 10 or so.
My Shadoe was eating close to 24ounces a day but now she could have a day where she may eat only 6ounces or less!

If possible, aside from mixing in the water to Rosy's wet food, maybe add a bit more food if she is asking for more food. It would be good to know how much food total in ounces that Rosy is eating, and about keeping her from the dry.... you are stopping her from getting sick, so please don't think she is suffering without dry food.... she is healing now that you have taken the dry food away.

I am sure that you are going to see your Rosy looking better with each day.

 

Such Good news!! I must share with you all!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

This morning I found Rosy climbed to the top of a 5ft cat tree looking for food. Remember only yesterday, she's dragging her rear legs! And she was w/o food the whole night! I tested her preshot; its a 21 (378) ! This is such good news because she used to have preshot at 500+!!
I gave her the scheduled shot of 3u & food. Will test her later at +6.

As for the canned food give, she eat around 200gm of Wiskas canned food plus a small plate of chicken filet yesterday.

 

Good news, tortie

 

Thankyou Ann& Scatcats! I am wondering why is the figures fluctuating as much. Is it a norm for diabetics ? I've caged Rosy most of the time since her rear legs has gained a bit of strength, she can jump & get to dry food. For the previous 2 days she did not have any dry food.

 

I am hoping you can find a way for Rosy to be not caged; the dry food is not good for any of the cats, so you could try what I needed to do because I have 2 diabetics and one cat who would not switch to wet: I took up the dry food when I was not around but let the wet food available for all cats.

If your other cats are truly hungry, there is no reason why they cannot eat wet food. I once thought that I was being mean to my one cat by removing the dry food, but I was not ... if there is always wet food available for the cats, then you are NOT depriving any cat of food.... it's there but they have chosen to eat it or not to eat it, yes?

When you are around again, you can uncover/put back the dry food for the others.

Here's how I look at the dry food.
Say you have 5 children and they have all been eating McDonalds hamburgers and french fries, and ice cream and cookies, every single day of their lives. They have all this food available to them all the time, anytime they want some, they can just grab it from the table or frig and eat.
One day, one of the five children gets sick and the dr tells you goodness, you need to give this medicine, and you have to start feeding this one child fruits and vegetables and salads, cutting out all the old diet.
What would you do?

Would you go home, give the medicine to the one child, and give a healthy meal to that child, but tell that child you have to stay in your room all the time now. You can't come out to sit on the sofa and watch TV or look out any windows, or walk around free anymore because you may be tempted to grab a cookie or some of that bad foods.

Nope. I bet you would think oh oh, I need to have my other 4 children to eat those veggies because I did not realize I was feeding a diet that could possibly make them sick.

 

Another thing to consider when caging Rosey is that she is just getting back the use of her legs. You want to let her exercise those legs and use them, not keep her restricted so she can't move much. You know the saying, if you don't use it you'll lose it. That's very true.

I would put them all on the wet and do like gayle said. If the one will only eat the dry, then she will have to eat separately or when you are home or If she has a special place she likes to go to that the others don't usually go maybe you can put her food there with a cover that she can move when she's ready to eat.

 

Thankyou Gayle Shadoe & Olive! I'll move my cats from a free feeding dry plus 2 meal of wet food to a3 meal of wet food plus occasional dry (no grain). The transition must go slow since they are very stressed with what is happening now; the lack of dry put out for them during the night as Rosy is freed during the night.
The issue I am facing now is:
1/ Will a no grain diet hurt those old cat with a fragile kidney since is high in protein? None of them has kidney issue so far, thank God!
2/ We were taught supermarket canned is bad for our cats. I know the Wiskas I am feeding Rosy is not desirable but I cannot afford to hav all of them eating the no grain canned food which is extremely costly in HK.
3/ Rosy cannot go free feeding at the moment since I've limited her to 3 meals a day & the time of feed to match with Lantus. Can I free feed ?
4/ will free feed on canned make those fatties even more fat , and not to mention the fear of diarrhea for 21 cats!

I wish to move the transition quicker too.

 

MelanieAndRacci, I really don't want to cage Rosy. But because I'm giving her 3 fixed meal a day with the time matching with Lantus, I cannot let her get to the free feeding of dry food placed everywhere at home. She is freed at night when all food removed and when I am watching her closely.
Im thinking of ways to make the change smoothly for my 21 cats. They are already stressed by what's happening already.
Anybody got experience with multiple cat household. It is 21 cats with age ranging from 12 to 5.

 

If your cats are eating wet food now, you should be able to switch them to wet easily.

As for free feeding, it's MORE important for Rosy to have food whenever she needs it, but the other cats can wait till 3times a day feeding. I would leave wet food available all the time, then put down dry food just a few tirmes during the day for the the other cats. I think that wet food would be better for cats with possible kidney problems, not dry food. I would think you want to have your cats with kidney issues to be on wet food as they need the water badly.
http://www.fabcats.org/owners/kidney/crf.html

That way, you do not have to lock up Rosy like she has done something wrong.
Leave wet food down for all the cats, and then put down some dry food at meal times for the other cats.

 

I'm afraid the the free feed of wet food will bring up Rosy's bg . Her figures are still very high most of the time. Hope it will come down gradually with the new schedule & the canned.
The fatty will finish off all left out canned food & get even more fat, isn't it?

 

The dry food is much more fattening and the fatties are probably already doing that with the dry anyway so it shouldn't matter much. It will probably help them lose weight.

 

Finally there is a bit of progression with Rosy. I've updated the SS.
Still struggling with the removing of dry food from their diet.

 

All 13 of mine are basically free fed canned food, I put out fresh 4 times a day, since I'm home with them all day. But my fatties have lost weight and my skinny mini's have gained weight on this feeding arrangement, as well as one of my diabetics has gone into remission and off insulin, the other is still insulin dependent, but I have recently switched her insulin and since the switch she is getting a much better response and I now have high hopes that she too will go into remission as well.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang

 

Oh MommaOfMuse, please tell me more how you do it! Free fed of canned food, do you just leave out the food for them? How to monitor if everyone get their share? How about those resistant to canned ? My 21 cats have been having dry food ever since. 21 of them with age from 12 to 5. Do you feed them in the middle of the night?
What type of canned you're feeding them? The no grain canned is very expansive in HK.