? George is new here, Thanks for all your help!

Well I think I'm posting in the right place now. I finally got his Number it was 403....
We started 10/31/15 when I had my hubby take George to the vet. He had lost wight and was peeing a lot (the littler box was like mud) I was sent home with a box of syringes and a prescript for insulin at Walmart.
I was told to give him 3 units every 12 hours ... that was it ... Then I found you all here... BLESS YOU!!!
I've gotten nothing but LOVE from all of you. When I came home I thought for sure I would have to put George down. My Hubby, At first, said we couldn't afford this. Thanks to a great friend near Green Bay Wis. she had 7 vials of insulin. I found Walmart and a site on the web has syringes a lot less than what the vet charged me. ($46) You all led me to wet food, low carbs, and love. Jim (Hubby ) is softening up. Money is tight so I pray I can do this.

 

That is great you got a reading! And I'm glad you are feeling more comfortable with George's diagnosis. Keep asking questions and we'll keep answering the best we can. One thing, the 'GA' in you're title is for cats that have passed away, so you may want to remove that

 

is that better ? thanks

 

Could anyone forward me the Insulin Spread sheet .. I can not get it open from my computer .

 

Here's the "How to get the FDMB spreadsheet" link

You have to have a Google account...and if you have any trouble, just holler! There are lots of us that can set it up for you!

 

got it

 

Well. George's numbers this morning was 409 I gave him 2 units of the Novalin N .. I know it is preferred that I change insulin . this is what the vet gave me and it is what a friend has for me free. so if there is someone that can help me with determining how much to give him, I would appreciate it. I need to get over the added $$$ and plan ahead if we travel. I had a very nice talk with another member that called and talked to me for a lengthy time. I really appreciated it.
I have the chart now ... how do I use it ?


Have a GReat Day Everyone !!!
Cindy Lou

 

N tends to be pretty harsh and have a fast onset, so testing will be your friend. Always, get a number before each shot (we suggest new diabetics not get a shot under 200) and then, as soon as you can, 3 and 5 hours after the shot, to see how fast the shot hits (a 50% drop in the first 2-3 hours would be a fast drop) and when it hits its lowest spot. You can mange the cycle with food sometimes, feeding small snacks when he starts down to get him back up a little.

If you are changing the food, I would test often. Our suggested stating dose is one unit. We like to start low and go slow, raising the dose if needed, based on your testing. It's easier and safer than getting low numbers, having to raise them and then trying to figure out how much to reduce. Maybe restart at one unit and test often?

Here is the protocol for N. It was written a long time ago as very few people use N now.

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/vetsulin-caninsulin-humulin-n.19/

Your first job is to find the onset, the nadir and the lowest point and then to see how long it lasts. In most cats, it doesn't last 12 hours so preshots can be high (insulin is gone) and the nadirs (lowest point) are low.

 

Good Morning Cindy Lou, I hope this explanation helps. Ask if you need clarification.

Understanding the spreadsheet/grid:
The colored headings at the top are the ranges of glucose values. They are color-coded to clue you in as to meaning.

Each day is 1 row. Each column stores different data for the day.
From left to right, you enter
the Date in the first column
the AMPS (morning, pre-shot, test) in the 2nd column
the Units given (turquoise column)
Then, there are 11 columns labeled +1 through +11
If you test at +5 (5 hours after the shot), you enter the test number in the +5 column
If you test at +7 (7 hours after the shot), you enter the test number in the +7 column
and so on.

Halfway across the page is the column for PMPS (evening, pre-shot, test)
To the right is another turquoise column for Units given at the evening shot.

There is second set of columns labeled +1 through +11
If you snag a before bed test at +3, you enter the test number in the +3 column.

We separate day and night numbers like that because many cats go lower at night.

The nadir is the lowest glucose between shots. There is a general period when it will happen which is specific to the insulin being used and testing then helps make sure your cat doesn't go too low.

 

@Sue and Oliver (GA) , I don't think the Novolin Protocol linked on your post.

 

Novolin is the same as Humulin, just a different manufacturer and name.

 

Are they comparable to Vetsulin?

 

Thank yo for helping me understand. I did go to the page explaining Novilin N that helped to !

 

thanks I have a lot to do

 

One day at a time. You are doing great!

 

Hi Cindy! I know there's a lot of info to absorb all at once and you're doing fantastic! Sue is really experienced and I think her idea of going down to 1 unit is a good idea if you're switching to low carb wet food. Then after you test and shoot, try to get a couple of tests later in his cycle to see what the nadir (lowest number in his cycle) is. Like we talked about in the other thread, you don't want him to go below 50 because that's hypo. But if he spends time in numbers between 50-120, that's actually good because it's healing for his pancreas.

Sometimes when their numbers go lower than they're used to, they react by bouncing up high again. So he might have these high numbers at the pre-shot tests because he's going low during the day and then bouncing back up once the insulin wears off. Some cats get used to the lower numbers and stop bouncing, and some, well... they're cats and they do what they want (maybe they bounce one day but not the next!). The more tests you get, the more data you'll have so you can figure out his patterns.

Can someone help Cindy figure out how to link her spreadsheet to her signature? @Bobbie And Bubba, @Sue and Oliver (GA), @Chris & China?

 

Hey Cindy see if this helps you. If not holler and someone will help you.

Instructions for pasting the SS link in your FDMB Signature block:1. Login to FDMB and click on your user name in the upper right corner.

2. Select "signature".

3. Put your cursor in the text box and then click on the "link" icon above the text box:


4. A text box will open that states "link"; paste your link into the box next to "URL":




5. This will place the link in the original text box. Modify it to look like this example (note additions to beginning and end of link and put your cat's name before "Spreadsheet"):


6. Click "save changes" and you're done!! Great job!!!! Remember to ask for help any time you need it.

 

I think i got it linked but I don't think I'm doing it right. I had trouble getting readings today an by what i'm reading I'm doing this all wrong.
This is my routine maybe someone can suggest where I should do what.
6:30 is when i get up and George is patiently waiting by the door, waiting for food.. I test or try to test, then I feed and give 2 units. by the time I get back from work 4:30 he's starving so my understanding is that the insulin is worn off..? that is when i try to test again. and feed ... should i be waiting till 6:30?

well, any words of wisdom?

 

Even with insulin, the cat will still get hungry! For some cats, it can help to divide the meals into 2+3 smaller mini-meals per shot, to spread out the calories. As you work to determine the best dose, the hunger will tone down some.

Almost there with the spreadsheet.
You need to share the spreadsheet to anyone who has the link.
Log into Google Drive
Open the spreadsheet
In the upper right corner is an icon to share; click that
select who can see the spreadsheet (anyone with the link)
Then click done.

 

done ...

 

Hi Cindy Lou!!

On your spreadsheet, the number that goes in the AMPS and PMPS columns are your test results, not the actual time. There's no particular place to put the time that you shoot on the spreadsheet because we don't look at times as much as we look at how fast and how low the dose has taken them....so it doesn't matter if you shoot at 6am and I shoot at 10am....2 hours later, 5 hours later, etc....is what we're watching for...those "+ times"

You always shoot as close to every 12 hours as possible

It's actually better for them to have smaller meals so the pancreas doesn't have to work so hard, but with Novolin, it's also important for the to have food on board about 20-30 minutes before you actually shoot (so when it hits, there's something for it to "work on")

There's no reason you can't leave food down for him during the day or use an auto-feeder (or take some canned cat food, add water and freeze in an ice cube tray....you can leave some "food-cicles" down and when they thaw, they're like fresh food) for him to eat later in the day

You just want to not have food down for him for the 2 hours before shot times so that when you test, you get results that aren't influenced by food

 

It took me a bit to wrap my mind around the SS also. It's really not hard after you understand it.

AMPS is the AM Pre-shot test (always test before shooting to make sure they're high enough to give insulin)...then the U column is for "Units" (how much you gave)

The +1, +2, +3, etc are for how many hours since shooting...so +2 is 2 hours after the AM shot, +9 is 9 hour after, etc.....Since we're all over the world here, saying "he was at 148 at 8pm" doesn't tell us anything...we need to know how long since his last shot

At the end of a 12 hour cycle, it's PMPS time! (PM Pre-shot) and the whole thing starts over.

What time zone are you in by the way?

 

Hey Cindy. Good job getting the spreadsheet set up.

The Remarks column is useful for putting things like your note about having trouble getting a reading, and your times, and what he ate, and anything else you want to record. Having the notes in the Remarks column will help you someday when you need to look back on what you did in the past.

 

Gotcha

Great news his numbers 383 so something went right ... Sorry it is taking me so long to get the gist of it... thanks for the TLC in guiding me ...

 

Glad you got it. What I just posted to you was something someone posted to me that helped me finally get it. We all have a teacher that can break through, LOL

 

Hi Bobbie, sorry not to answer your question sooner, I was in the hospital for sleep studies, ugh.

Yes, they are very similar to Vetsulin and are usually handled the same way as Vetsulin.

 

Sleep studies?? What did they find out: our sugar babies are causing us to be sleep deprived? In all seriousness, I hope you are okay.

 

I'm fine, thanks! One of my Drs thinks I have sleep apnea because I'm tired. I don't think I have sleep apnea, I'm tired because I don't sleep, lol! Seems to me to be a straightforward diagnosis.

 

So let's fix your SS a little. On 11/3, you need to put your 430 & 403 in your AMPS and PMPS respectively (column B3 & O3). Delete the time that you shot. On 11/4, you didn't get a BG number but you probably did shoot so put that in there (C4). I am assuming that you went ahead and shot 2u both times. Then your comment that you put in the +1 column, you may want to move that over to the comment section (AB3). 11/5 looks good. Did you get any extra testing in between your AM and PM times?

 

you would be surprised, I have had sleep ap for years. I have a Cpap machine and it does wonders... it's not the sexiest but you sleep so much better.

 

Fixed it

 

You can wake up in tiny amounts you don't notice, other than feeling hung over the next morning without benefit of partying the night before.

 

Hey Cindy Lou! How's the curve going today? I just reread some older threads to see what insulin you are on. It's Novolin, correct? If that is correct, when you get a chance, could you put the insulin type in your signature? It will help those who are helping you with dosing to know which insulin George is on. Hope it's going well for you today. The first curve is always tiring.

 

Hi Cindy. I just got back from the post office. I sent you a meter with a brand new fresh battery (I had to go to three different stores this morning to find the right one), lots of testing strips and 28 gauge lancets, some cotton pads for staunching the blood droplet, and some neosporin with pain relief. They are supposed to be there on Monday.

I hope George is doing well today.

I also went to my Walmart to try to buy you some urine ketone test strips, to include in the package, but they were all out. I would suggest trying to buy some from your Walmart as soon as you can. They are $6.64 for 50 strips.

 

You are an ANGEL <3

 

Since he's at 520, you can probably wait until PMPS for his next test. I wonder if he's going lower at night time.
I would suggest starting a new post asking for dosing advice, or changing your Subject Line to ask for dosing advice.