having a meltdown

Yesterday started so good - I gave him small amounts of Young Again over the previous several days and he liked it. So yesterday I started that as his diet - he ate okay during the day and his numbers were amazing - he ate a little right as I was giving his evening dose of insulin but then didn't touch anything the rest of the night. Didn't act or look sick - just wouldn't eat anything. I knew I probably gave too much insulin. I saw his numbers go down and gave him a few pieces of kibble he wasn't supposed to have. This morning he came and woke me up as usual and seemed very anxious to eat - his amps is 426. Except he won't eat anything - either the Young again or the Royal Canin glycobalance. I even put out a little canned which I know would make him sick in larger quantities just sniffs and walks away He is purring and preening and not appearing ill , but won't eat. How much insulin should I give after eating basically nothing since yesterday afternoon?
I don't know how much more of this I can take - as time goes on, it's getting much more difficult

 

update - I pulled out the Purina DM dry that I started out with when he was first diagnosed and he ate some of that Now I have to give him some insulin but don't know how much - 1.5 units?

 

Carol I feel your pain. While Colin is eating, I'm feeling like you that I don't know how much more I can take. If I saw any progress at all, I think it would spur me on and make it easier. I don't know what to tell you to do. Just know you're not alone.

Glad he ate some!

 

@Sharon14 This has taken over my life I only got a about 3 hours of sleep last night I think he may be a kitty that can't be controlled. My vet said some cats can take up to a year to regulate - but with his weight loss he doesn't have that long

 

I looked at your spreadsheet. Yesterday's numbers were beautiful- Yellows and blues. (Colin and I dream of those.) maybe the high number this AM is a bounce. What did you decide to shoot?

 

about 1.75 (eyeball) I know - yesterday I thought Young Again was the answer. He develops food aversions very easily - had hepatic lipidosis several years back, and wouldn't eat anything he had eaten prior to that. I really don't know what is going on now - I don't think your numbers look that bad - no blacks (which is my threshold) for bad numbers

 

Remember I'm using a human meter which reads lower than your Alphatrack, so some of my high 400's are probably 500's. I will never give dosing advice, but I wonder if you shouldn't get a bit more aggressive. It's scary, I know, but yesterday he had beautiful numbers but not really near a hypo. If Colin did that, I would get nervous and ask for help too, but at this point(I've been treating him since March). I think I would shoot at least 2, if not 2.5 as usual. Again this is NOT dosing advice. Maybe Sue or Rachel will be up soon to guide you for tonight. In the meantime it's good you gave him a shot you are comfortable with. Try to get some rest today.

 

I am just worried that he won't eat anything more today

 

I understand completely. I haven't had a day where Colin won't eat, and he doesn't have tummy problems, so I would probably be worried like you about that. I'm just to a point where I'm ready to push Colin. I'm concerned because he has been so high for so long and even though he looks ok, I know this is hard on his kidneys, and I need to make some progress. I had such high hopes for the insulin change, and I know it's only been a couple days, but I see no progress and I know some of that may be my fault because I'm still having problems with injections. I may try to shave a spot so I can see his skin better.(I'm sure he'll love the clippers!). I hope Murphy has a good day and his appetite picks up. Have you checked out the slippery elm bark? I don't have the links, but google it and read about it. Maybe it will help Murphy.

 

@Sharon14 thanks for the encouragement - I'm just trying to give him 0.5 units more of insulin but he is trying to bite me when I do it - I will look at the slippery elm - I have never heard of it I was about to shave Murphy too but I am finding the tent in the shoulder area has worked for me, although Murphy still tries to bite me when I do it good luck

 

Has he eaten any more? Could it be the lower numbers have lowered his appetite? I don't know if that's something that could happen. If he's trying to bite you, just let it go. When Sue or Rachel come on they can help you get back on track.

 

Hi Carol, I don't think it's a good idea to give more insulin after you all ready did. Wait till the next shot time to dose more if you feel he needs it. I remembering wanting to do the same thing and I was advice not to do that.

 

I am sorry, Carol, that you feel so overwhelmed. Sharon is right - the last two cycles had some lovely blues, but yes, he bounced each time. If you have to skip today, just think of it as a fur shot and a day off for both of you. Take a nap and don't test.

It sounds like the food issue is causing you the most stress. Have you asked the vet about pancreatitis? I hesitate to throw another issue in the mix, but wonder if eating makes his tummy hurt. (Sometimes if they seem to want to eat but then won't is a symptom) Marje put this pancreatitis primer together and it is very informative. Maybe look at some of the symptoms and see if they sound familiar. I know it would seem like an additional problem, but it is manageable and pain meds can make a huge difference if it is that it hurts to eat.

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/a-primer-on-pancreatitis.83108/

If he will only eat the dry Purina, then that is what you feed. And you work around it by increasing the insulin. Your dose yesterday was good with the Young Again. His nadirs were safe (we don't worry unless they go down below 50). It is promising that he can drop into blues. Now it's a matter of finding a dose and a food that can get him into those better ranges.

 

@Sue and Oliver (GA) , I think Sharon all ready dosed a reduced amount of .75 units and wanted to give another .5 unit. Is that a good idea?

 

Carol gave 1.75

 

Yes, thanks Sharon, I forgot the number one. It did sound like she was trying to dose another .5 unit, correct?

 

Sorry, I missed that she was able to give him a dose. I think it was a good choice and still urge you to take a day off. He won't be dropping too low so plan a nap or a walk or a movie? Leave him some food and see if he will nibble on it.

 

Carol, just some more encouragement, it has only been since 8/2 that Murphy was DX, it will take longer than it has been to regulate him. My cat was DX the end of May, and he still isn't regulated. The important thing is to keep him safe, which you are doing. And he is getting some nice numbers. When I was overwhelmed like you, Sue advised me to do something fun, go for a walk, a movie, a nap. Be good to yourself and try to relax a bit. He is doing pretty good with the diabetes. The eating thing is a problem, does he like tuna? Maybe a bit to jump start his appetite, parmesan chees sprinkled on his food or some bonita flakes sprinkled on top. Whatever it takes for him to eat. Or maybe crush some of the of DM and put it on top of the wet food.

 

@Sue and Oliver (GA) , I think Carol is using an Alphatrak not a human meter.

 

Thanks for the advice - I did dose the 1.75 and tried to give him another 0.5 units about 20 minutes later but didn't (and won't) do it His eating issues predate the diabetes -yes, it is the food issue that has me most upset because he is so unpredictable - this is the first time since his dx that I've had to deal with it and I can't really trust after I give him a dose that he will eat normally. Add to this Friday I finally got a baby scale and he has lost a significant amount of weight in the last month so I'm desperately trying to push the calories I so appreciate the opportunity to vent and all the helpful advice I am feeling rather pessimistic about the long term though

 

Thanks, Lucy. So your low range is around 66 - 68, Carol.

 

Hi, Carol. My Squallie can sometimes be a finicky eater. I use Pure Bites dehydrated chicken or turkey treats to crumble over his food, it's the only thing I have found that gets him to eat when he doesn't seem to want to. We play a "game;" I crumble a treat over his food, he eats a little, repeat, repeat, repeat...until most of the food has finally been consumed. Also -and I have no idea why this works with him- I can almost always get him to eat if I use a regular table spoon and scoop up very small portions to offer him, on the spoon. Guess it makes him feel special, lol.

 

Vent all you need, I get it. Oh, do I get it. One day recently Bubba didn't eat much at all and I needed to dose him. I was advised that as long as he eats at least a tbsp. of wet, go ahead and dose.

 

Squallie was born with a silver spoon in his mouth!!!

 

thanks for the ideas - have you ever heard of a cat that doesn't like tuna? well, it's Murphy - he won't even drink tuna water. This pre-dates the diabetes, but despite repeated attempts, he has never tolerated any type of wet food - he loves it, but after a day or two, he vomits and won't eat for a day or so. Once about two years ago, when discussing this with my vet, she said "lets hope he never gets diabetes" Cruel irony. This inability to feed wet food obviously severely limits my options now. That's why I had such high hopes for Young Again. Buy Pure bites at Petsmart? I may try the parmesan cheese don't know what I would do without this forum Your advice is so much appreciated

 

@ Bobby - if eating just a little, what dose were you advised to give?

 

I gave his normal dose at that time. I would imagine that you tried all flavors of wet, correct? Think it was on another thread that someone said that beef and fish are two big allergy offenders in cats. Will he not eat chicken or turkey either? And wondering, when he does eat can, dose he scarf it down quickly resulting in him regurgitating it immediately? Or does he throw it up later? Just trying to figure out if he has the scarf and barf thing going on.

 

I can't give any dosing advice, I'm fairly new here as well, but I can certainly give encouragement! You are doing a great job with a tough situation! I know it doesn't seem like it now but dealing with diabetes will get easier.

As for the Pure Bites, I think someone else here said they got them at a pet store, maybe Petsmart; I order mine online.

Have you ever tried raw for Murphy? I've been feeding raw, along with some canned (which I know Murphy can't eat) for about a month. I didn't think my cats would eat it, but they love it. I use Nature's Variety Instinct raw chicken, in the small nuggets. Don't know whether or not that might be an option for you.

What is your dosing routine? It sounds like you dose and then feed? Most folks here feed first, after the PS test, and then dose. It would probably make it easier on you for the times when you need to figure out a reduced dose.

Murphy is such a cutie!

 

Lucy, do you give the Nature's Variety as a snack or a meal? If a meal, how much would you give?

 

/

My guys usually eat three times a day; I give each a half a can of FF Classic Turkey and Giblets, and mix in 2-2.5 oz of the frozen Nature's Variety Instinct Raw. Everybody seems to be doing extremely well on this diet, and it's okay for both Squallie and Candy (IBD) so that makes my life a whole lot easier. If they seem to be extra hungry, I just add in a little more of the raw.

If someone had told me six months ago that not only would I be treating a diabetic cat, and one with IBD, and getting everyone to eat raw, I would have told them they were crazy; funny how we end up doing things we never thought we'd do!

 

@Bobbie - In the last 5 years since I adopted him, I have tried all varieties for almost all the major brands (Friskies, FF, Science diet, Iams, etc) the pattern is always the same - I try to introduce it gradually (1/4 small can/day) he loves it and eats it (prefers it to dry) but just when I am up to more than 1/2 can/day, he has a day or two of vomiting, not eating at all, seems nauseous, won't even look at the canned food, but after a day or two will return to the dry food. He has always seemingly had an occasional bad day (unrelated to canned food) where he won't eat anything all day, but when I wake up in the morning, he has cleaned out his food dish (this is the first time this has happened since his diabetes dx) but last night he didn't eat anything at all. Maybe I overdid it on introducing Young Again too quickly. I may try the Nature's variety Instinct raw - where do you get it? Can that be the only food? I've heard of many cats getting diarrhea with raw food diets.
I feed first and then dose - the issue with the dry food is that he doesn't eat it all right away - like yesterday he ate a little, so I dosed him, and then he didn't eat any more for the rest of the day - that was unexpected.

 

Do you think he could eat just a small amount of canned food everyday? If 1/4 of a can doesn't make him sick, just give him that much and the rest of his meal the dry, and don't even try to feed more canned than that. Do you think he could tolerate that day after day? It's not perfect, but it would lower the overall carbs.

 

I know it can be discouraging but please don't give up. You really are doing a great job! A lot of diabetic kitties do lose weight because they are unable to use the calories they consume so they start breaking down their own body fat. Hopefully, now that Murphy is on insulin, he will start to gain back some of that weight.

Yes, you can feed raw as a complete diet. I get my Nature's Variety at our local Concord Pet. I imagine almost any of the big chain pet stores would carry it. Many vets do not recommend feeding raw (including my own!) because of the risk of salmonella, both to the cat and the owner. I feed it primarily because I have a kitty with IBD and it is one of the few things that doesn't give her terrible diarrhea. You could also try cooking for your kitty; lots of people cook for their cats, mostly chicken it seems, and their cats do very well. If he likes the YA maybe you could try mixing a little raw or home-cooked chicken in with it to see what he thinks.

 

Hey Carol! I would have chimed in sooner but we had a rough night at my house (no kitty problems, just to clarify!). In the end, he's got to eat...so if you find something he'll eat, feed it. If it's dry food with higher carbs, we will just have to use insulin to work with it.

Don't lose heart! I know how hard this is, but you can do this. I agree with Sue...you need a break. Take yourself out today...go shopping or to a movie or just take a long, lovely nap. You deserve it!

 

Yeah, maybe what @Sharon14 suggested, just 1/4 can of wet and some of the YA or the DM, whichever he'll eat. So, it sounds like he is a grazer if during the night, he cleans up his bowl. So, if he will tolerate 1/4 can of wet, figure out what the calories are the wet you feed him (Fancy Feast classics are somewhere around 98-100 calories per 3 oz. can) and the calories in the dry food that you measure out to add up to what he should be eat in a serving. The rule of thumb for feeding cats is about 20 per cat pound. You will want to calculate that for his ideal weight. So say he should be 10 lbs times that by 20 and he should be getting 200 calories a day. My cat I give 360 -400, he's 17 lbs. but should be about 20 lbs.

 

Rachel is right, what ever you can get him to eat, that is the important thing.

 

You can also get freeze-dried raw and I'm guessing the risk of salmonella is a little lower with it.

Sue and Rachel are spot-on with great advice! It's great if you can get him onto a low-carb diet but ultimately you may just have to go with what you can get him to eat and adjust his insulin accordingly. Just don't give up. As I've been reminded many times by wiser minds, this is a marathon, not a sprint, changes and results tend to come slowly, but your efforts are so worth it!

Follow some more great advice and take a break from it for a few hours, you need some time away from it. Sending hugs for you and chin scritches for Murphy!

 

@Squaliesmom - may be a strange question but can you heat up the raw food (to kill salmonella)? Murphy doesn't like chicken (won't touch tiki cat succulent chicken or other cooked chicken I've offered him) What has me upset is that he has lost about 3 lb (from 11 to 8) while he has been on insulin - it's with different baby scales but it can't be that off. Although if you look at him, he doesn't look ill.

 

Is this the first time you've weighed Murphy on your scales? I ask because the other day, at the vet, the tech took Colin to the back and weighed him. She came back with 11.6! I was stunned so we weighed him on another scale and got 12.9 which is what I've been getting at home. Anyway, how does he feel when you lift him? Can you feel his backbone? Take note of these things too to help you keep track of his weight.

 

Yes, I just got a new baby scale. His ideal weight is probably 11 - ~ 6 months ago, he was up to about 12.5 lb @ dx 8/2 he was 11.25 in ER vets scale, on 9/2 11.3 on my vets scale, and Friday 8.3 lb on my new scale. He does seem thinner but it is to hard to tell with all that fur But after your message, now I have hope that it could be a pound or so off. He doesn't feel all that much lighter when I pick him up, but I am feeling unsure about everything today

 

I don't have a baby scale, I have one of the old kinds and I always have to reset it. Don't know why. Is there a way to calibrate the scales? Try weighing something that you know exactly what it weighs. See if it's accurate.

 

To calibrate or compare: Go in your pantry and find an unopen bag of something like a 5lb of pinto beans, or 5 lb of flour or 1.5 lb of sugar.

When Merlin was first dx he was 8.8 lbs. He is a large cat and his before weight was 12 lbs. He lost weight fast and was skin and bones by the time we saw him (my daughter and I thru-hiked the Appalachian Trail and was gone for six months). It basically took me a year to get Merlin somewhat looking and feeling better. To be quite honest, I am surprised that he lived. For the first year, he would get sick, vomit, get constipated, wouldn't eat and soon after diabetic dx, we also found out that he is Stage 3 kidney disease. It was a really rough year. He would bounce, bounce and did some more bouncing that sometimes would last for days.

So here are some of the things that I tried:
* Pepcid AC - 1/4 tablet in am and 1/4 tablet in pm. This helped a lot. Sometimes when he wouldn't eat, I would syringe his Pepcid AC and then wait about 30 minutes before I would try food again. Sometimes, I would use this daily even though he was eating.
* Coconut Oil (Cold Pressed, Organic) - Sometimes I would put this on his food and other times, I would have him lick it off a spoon. For some reason, my dogs and cats love the taste of coconut oil. When I go to the pantry, and they hear me open the can, they all come a running. I don't think it has any carbs and it helps with allergies, itching, etc.
* Organic Chicken/Beef either Broth, Granules or Bouillon Cubes - You need to make sure that there is not any additives or sweetener. I would make a little au jus and let him drink it (when I was desperate) otherwise, I would put it over his food. With the bouillon cubes or granules, you can make it stronger. I would freeze the broth and put it in a bowl for in between meal snacks.
* Add Pure bites, Bonita Flakes, Parmesan Cheese over food. For some reason this did not work as well but I always went back to try it. I bought the Pure Bites at Petsmart. Because my other cats love it, I go to the dog section and by the bigger pack. It is much cheaper than the little kitty packet, but you have to break it down to little pieces.
* Medium Carb Food - It seems that the higher the carb, the tastier it is. Again, in desperate events, I would mix the medium carb food with the lower carb food. By medium, the carb percentage was 8-17%. That seems to work pretty good and it only affected the BG for a day or two. I would rather get him to eat and deal with the BG numbers.
* Miralax - Sometimes, his constipation led him to not want to eat. So as long as he was not completely blocked, I would give him Miralax. At first, I gave him daily (1/4 tsp BID).
* Salmon - I am a vegetarian so this always hurts to go shopping for this, but I go to the Natural grocery store and buy organic (no dye or additives), wild salmon. I would dehydrate and sometimes cook it and sprinkle on his food. One of my cats don't like tuna much but they love the salmon.
* Exercise - About 15-30 minutes before feeding time, I would get the old fuzzy thing on a stick and would have him chase it or something. Even if the other cats join in and Merlin would watch, he still is getting into it.
* Puree Meat - Merlin doesn't like shredded chicken whether I boil it for him or if it is in one of those Tiki cans. So I would puree the chicken or any meat or fish. I think it is because he only has one fang so he seems to like the soupy stuff better.

Merlin never gained all his weight back but he is now at 10.4 lbs. For the first 1 1/2 years, I fed him almost every 2-3 hours or whenever he wanted. I figured that as long as he is hungry, I would feed and hopefully, he would gain the weight. Now, we go about every 3 hours and typically he usually only wants 2 tablespoons (sometimes 3) per feeding.

Hopefully there is something new here that may help.

 

That's a good question, and one I do not know the answer to. I would suggest contacting the manufacturers for guidance with that, they are usually very good about getting back to you quickly with advice and help with their products. Ironically, Squallie will not eat the Tiki Cat chicken, which all my other guys just love, but he will eat the Instinct raw chicken, go figure!

Has your vet told you what Murphy's ideal weight should be? Different scales can have a pretty big variance. Does your vet use one of those big stainless steel scales/exam table, or does he use a baby scale? My vet uses one of the big ones, and told me that my baby scale will give me different readings as it is designed to weigh lighter objects. @Merlin Cindi has some great ideas, too. When Squallie was first diagnosed he had lost about two lbs, I had to feed lots of small meals throughout the day and night, as well. And exercise is very important; Squall was a chubby, lazy senior, but now he is an active, fit senior, and enjoying it!

 

thanks for all the great suggestions I usually have been giving him a pepcid in the am mixed with his zyrtec and probiotic
my vet uses a baby scale - I just got one - put a 8 lb hand weight on it and it weighed in a 8.14 so I guess it's pretty accurate my vet has said his target weight was 11 lb
your posts have made me feel better that there is some hope regarding the weight loss- the diabetic dry and Young Again are very high in calories so in this case, that is good - just have to get his body to use the calories
I will try to exercise him more - getting dry food, I am torn between offering it every few hours or just free feeding him - especially at night - I will have to leave some in his dish
the downside of this is that it will be unknown whether his amps was food influenced or not (this is assuming I can get him to eat) and if he's not starving in the am, I can't ever be sure he will eat before/after the am insulin (pm too for that matter)

 

I've seen people talk about timed feeders. Maybe they would help so he wouldn't have food 2 hrs preshot.

 

the feeders are a good suggestion Has anyone ever tried the baby food meats?

 

I have with my Sug, GA, when she wouldn't eat, she would eat baby food. Might be a good option for you.

 

I've used baby food for cats that wouldn't eat too. Just remember it's not a complete meal for a cat nutrient wise. How is Murphy this afternoon?

 

If you feed baby food, just make sure it has no onion flavoring added.

 

True, it would only be used to jumpstart Murphy's appetite. And, if he would eat it, then maybe you could start adding it to the food you wanted him to eat.

 

well, now I feel ridiculous - his pmps was 456 (not bad for him considering I gave him such a small insulin amount this am) he eagerly ate 1/8 cup of Purina DM this evening (he'll get the other 1/8 cup in a few hours) and I re-weighed him on the new baby scale on a hard surface (not carpet) and his weight is 11.4 (so he hasn't lost 3 lbs)! I think his inappetite yesterday was either 1) his periodic inappetite which I have no idea why it happens but which has happened regularly in the 5 yrs I have had him or 2) I increased his Young Again too quickly I learned so much from you all which I will take forward to make Murphy healthy again ps I hope this post is not too optimistic

 

I forgot one more thing that I did and I will edit on my earlier post. Merlin doesn't like shredded chicken whether I boil it for him or if it is in one of those Tiki cans. So I would puree any meat. I think because he only has one fang, he seems to like the soupy stuff.

 

I was thinking the same thing - do you use a food processor? will he eat Tiki Cat pureed?

 

I have a vitamix. I never thought of puree the Tiki cat food but that is a good idea too.

 

So glad things are looking up! I see you got brave and upped his dose a bit too. I think that was the right thing to do, Go Murphy! Hope to see some pretty blues

 

So glad to hear he ate well! And super happy that he hasn't lost as much weight as you feared he had, that's wonderful news!!! The trick to using the baby scales is to find a convenient, hard surface for it and then not moving it, if you want to get consistent readings.

 

Yeah! I think you will sleep a lot better tonight with some weight removed from you. Good new, we love good news!!

 

Speaking of good news, Bobbie, Bubba had a good day!

 

Yes, he did! And, after only shooting .5 unit last PMPS to get him back on schedule, his AMPS wasn't horrible! Thanks for that brilliant suggestion, Sue! My life became easier and I slept great last night.

 

All the good news! I'm so glad to hear that he ate well!!!

Don't feel silly Carol. Someday, I'll tell you all about the periodic meltdowns I've had. We all get tired out and reach a point where anything freaks us out and we panic. I totally get that!

I'm also thrilled that Bubba is doing well...that was a great suggestion from Sue!

 

Hooray!!!

 

Carol, how is Murphy today?

 

@Sharon14 thank you for asking - he coughed up a hairball last night - which was definitely part of the issue- as is usual, he develops a food aversion to everything he was eating at the time he felt sick, so now he won't touch pumpkin in addition to the Young Again and Royal Canin He scarfed up his 1/8 cup DM this morning and is already begging for more I'm going to puree Tiki Cat chicken today to see if he will eat that, maybe with some parmesan cheese on top I got so many wonderful suggestions yesterday, for the first time in many weeks, I am hopeful. I am also going to give myself a little break and stop obsessing about this for awhile
what about you? Are you going to have Colin clipped so you can see the shot better? I was about to - even bought the clippers- but since I've been doing the tent over the shoulder blades, I've been better at the injections - although I still am anxious because I can't see where the needle is going I see you had some lovely yellows yesterday - that is very encouraging!!

 

Good that Murphy ate something this AM. How are his numbers with the dose increase? As for shots, I thought I gave a good shot last night, but when I went to kiss him on his head I could smell the insulin, so I don't know... I may try to clip him today, I know he won't like that though. I have to go to town to work a few hours today too, and I worry about him especially with the new insulin. I wish I could stay on the ProZinc. It seems much more forgiving, and I'm more comfortable with the small group we have here.

 

Sharon- what are the reasons you are switching insulin?

 

Colin was up to 5u 2x/day and we saw no progress. I'm wondering about Acromegaly, but since there's nothing I can do about it if he has it(treatment way too expensive), my vet and Sue and Rachel suggested a change to see if that'll help.

 

[QUOTE="Sharon14, post: 1505459, member: 13302" I wish I could stay on the ProZinc. It seems much more forgiving, and I'm more comfortable with the small group we have here.[/QUOTE]

Sharon, you can absolutely hang around. You have good insights into FD and know about ProZinc. We love to have you post. (Consider that I haven't had an FD cat in 6 years; I still post)

We can't help with Levemir dosing. I'd suggest adding something like NEED DOSE ADVICE when you need help. The forum is much bigger than this one and threads get lost, but if you indicate you need help right away, they are good at getting back to you.

I like his yellows.

 

My civvies wouldn't eat when I first got her. But she had just had her leg amputated. She was only 4 lbs and 1 1/2 years.

Tried everything including baby food. Some one suggested Proplan because of the gelatinous in it. She licked all the gelatin and eventually started taking bites a few days later.

Proplan savor chicken and spinach and beef and carrots are low carb at least I'm told that over the phone. They are mailing me the information.

Another is FreshPet. It's in the refrigerator at the pet store and some grocery stores but in the dog side. This is what they told me:
The carbohydrate amount in our cat foods:
Vital Complete Meals is 3.3% as fed and 8.4% moisture free.
Freshpet Select Roasted Meals Chicken Recipe is: 3.3% as fed and 8.4% moisture free Freshpet Select Roasted Meals Chicken & Beef Recipe is: 3.5% as fed and 8.5% moisture free.
Freshpet® Select Chicken & Beef Cat Food Recipe Slice and Serve Roll is: 4.0% as fed and 9.8% on a dry matter basis.

Maybe one of these will get him eating.

 

Hey Carol - once you think you got the "tenting" technique (over the shoulders) accomplished, start moving that tent around to the sides or shoulders. You can also tent on the sides near the barrel (horse term) or rib cage or shoulder. That way, it doesn't get sore in one area. I do my injection in the AM on the left side and my PM shots on the right sides and I move all up and down the body. I stay away from the hips because Merlin is very thin there but I have heard of others shooting there too.

 

That's how my ex-vet told me to give the shot; my new vet tells me to give it in the same place each time, said it helps have consistent results. I don't always listen to the vet, lol. I do worry about him getting sore in that spot if I always give it in the same place.

 

Yeah, I have read here on this site that it is best to stay away from the spinal area. I also read that it is best to give near the side/stomach as it absorbs better, hence better numbers. I tried experimenting to see if that is right but I couldn't really tell. Seems like there is a study somewhere out there on the best place to give a shot. I have heard of others, injecting on their stomach. I don't think I could get Merlin to lay on his back while I gave him a shot. So I just keep giving shots up and down, all around his body now. I can tell where he may have a little scar tissue near his top of his shoulder because the needle goes in a little different than other virgin areas and that is where I always shot at first.

 

My vet told me not to do the scruff of the neck that studies show that it doesn't absorb as well there so, I don't shoot there.

 

Lol, my vet told me the exact opposite!

 

Really? Do you shoot in the scruff? Because if you do and you and Squallie are working it, I will start shooting the scruff!!!

 

I do now, since I've been with my new vet.

 

Guess where Bubba is getting his next shot?? Good to know. Glad we had this conversation!!

 

A close personal friend of mine is a feline-only vet (who I really trust but who unfortunately lives too far away to be my vet), and because I was having such a terrible time giving Murphy his shots (on his side etc) she showed me on her cat - she said feel for the shoulder blades, pull the skin in a tent up from there and shoot in the tent. this area is not in the scruff of the neck, but a little farther back. She also said that the insulin will be consistently absorbed there as opposed to varying the location every time. However, in the very long term, she said eventually vary where I shoot . Since I started doing this, giving the injections have been MUCH easier for me - previously, I was having a hard time not shooting muscle and intra-dermal and even finding a good place. Murphy was not happy, and while he does notice when I shoot now, it is much better.

 

Glad things are looking brighter today Carol! Sometimes we just need a break, when it seems overwhelming. You are doing a great job! Good luck with finding just the right food/foods, that would be frustrating I am sure. Rupert eats everything in sight now, so at least I don't have that issue. I do shave Rupert around the shoulder blades and neck area, it is so much easier to see that my needle is in before injecting. He doesn't seem to mind the clippers, which surprised me, he actually purred last time I did it! Maybe feels like a mini-massage? Keep up the good work and remember to be kind to yourself also.

 

Just a little shout out to Bubba and Colin for having some nice numbers! Whoo hooo!

 

Yes, that's where I shoot, it's just a little behind the actual scruff.

Same reasoning my vet gave.

 

As Carol said, it's actually just a little behind the actual scruff, right over his shoulder blades.

 

Okay, that 's exactly where I shoot.

 

Thanks Lynn!!! I have a feeling it was short lived, +5 was 114, then @ +6.75 jumped up to 165. Getting ready to test at +12. Drum Roll..

 

Good luck, paws and fingers crossed for you!

 

I see it was 449 , but remember, he did have some really nice numbers lately, so there is some progress. Rupert and Bubba both keep us on our toes, eh? Did you get another bottle of Prozinc or are you thinking of switching?

 

Yeah, the little bouncer He started off lower today, 288 and that was 1 hour and 10 mins after throwing up yesterday's mouse. At 4:50 AM !! Don't know why he likes them so much, they don't agree with him Yes, Rupert and Bubba keep us dancing. I got a new bottle of proZinc when he had his dental and started it 9.25 PM. I reduced from 2.2 to 2.1 because it was new. You can see by his SS that he went his lowest at +9 and the next AM he was in the yellow for pre-shot. I just felt like I needed to give the ProZinc a bit longer. Are you going to switch?

 

I went with ProZinc again too, figured I would try one more bottle. Sure hope we can get them regulated before our new bottles are done. My country cats used to go outside, would eat their mice and throw them up too! Yuck! But they sure did help with the mice population! Guess they test good going down, but don't want to stay there. Thanks for the info, I will give a little less when I start the new bottle, which will be soon. Better to be safe than sorry. Sometimes I get a little envious of ones that get their cat regulated so quickly, happy for them, I am, but the hard ones like Bubba, Rupert, Colin, sure lead us on a dance and it's hard not to get discouraged. I worry that Rupie will have other health issues due to prolonged high numbers and that maybe I am missing some vital clue. *sigh* Guess we have to keep our chins up and keep the hope alive!

 

I hear you Lynn but, they are making good progress, I just looked at Ruperts's SS and they are both staying the majority of the time below the renal threshold and they are getting some greens here and there. Yes, chins up! They haven't been on insulin too long. Heck, some kitties get off the juice a year or two later or even longer than that. There is always hope.

 

I am still hopeful, but as the dosage keeps getting higher, I get a little scared. But, he is below the worrisome 5+ units yet, so we still have some room. I am watching Colin's SS closely, sure hope he starts to see some good numbers, nice yellows so far, so maybe he will be regulated soon.

 

I know what you mean about the increases, but it doesn't have to mean that is where they will stay. Sometimes they have to go up before that start coming down. Fingers and Paws. Sorry Carol that we high-jacked your thread.

 

I hope you're both able to get regulated on ProZinc too. The L&LL forum is so big. I haven't gotten many responses to my post. I guess I have to get more aggressive in my posting, that's not me though. That's why I like it here. I'm feeling scared & hopeless again. Alright enough with feeling sorry for myself, back to reading and trying to figure Levemir out. Thanks for letting me vent. Yes, sorry for the high-jack Carol

 

I am no longer in meltdown mode, and I received so much support and helpful information - I enjoy reading the conversation so please keep it going here

 

Are there so many more cats on Levemir than prozinc (is that why the forum is bigger)?

 

Hang with us all you want Sharon! Get creative with posting over in L&LL. Maybe one of your titles could be something like: " Are they really not manufacturing Levemir anymore ????? " That aught to get some hits!

 

Sharon - did Colin get clipped yet? How are your injections going?

 

Apparently there are. If you haven't look over there, check out how many threads in the couple of days. It's crazy!

 

No haven't clipped yet. Charging my clippers and I cleaned his ears today, and he HATES that, so I didn't want to do too much. Plan to try to clip tomorrow. I think shot went well though. Thanks for asking

 

Yes! They have a special way they post, and you're only supposed to post one thread a day because there are so many. When I posted this AM, I checked back less than 5 min. Later and my post was already half way down the page! I got a couple responses, but none with any advice, so I feel like I'm on my own, which is scary. I'll have to figure something out.

 

what's the main difference between Levemir and Prozinc?

 

I haven't figured it out completely, but Levemir and Lantus are depot insulins. They are stored up and absorbed more slowly, thus lasting longer. There may be more difference, I'm still learning.