heading towards remission

Discussion in 'Caninsulin / Vetsulin and N / NPH' started by BBelshan, Mar 23, 2019.

  1. BBelshan

    BBelshan Member

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    Feb 11, 2019
    I am still not great at testing. My spreadsheet is full of holes. My poor cat has tolerated it well. I have to do it while he eats his regular food as he is not interested in no carb snacks and they don't last long enough. Many times he has already eaten over half of his food by the time I do get a good sample. I wonder how quickly his number raise on the friskies pates. I swear I poke each ear at least 3 or more times and I still don't always get enough blood, but when I do, he has great numbers. Lately I've only had to give him a drop every couple of days. Today was the lowest he has ever been without insulin. 83!! He has one more vet trip scheduled this Thursday to remove his splint and make sure his sprain has healed enough. He always has to be sedated to be checked out and the stress might raise his numbers again, but we are so close! I know he hasn't been off of it long enough to consider it being official, but I feel like we can see the finish line. I hope I haven't jinxed his progress, but I just had to share my excitement.
     
  2. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't be surprised if the splint isn't causing him just a wee bit of "stress" and having that over and done with might bring his numbers down just a little more. It does look like you are close to remission antijinx-emoticon.png so fingers crossed Beast continues to give you lovely low blue and dark green numbers like tonight in the days to come when he co-operatively gives up enough blood for you to test.;):cat:
     
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  3. BBelshan

    BBelshan Member

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    Feb 11, 2019
    Thanks, the splint also caused a large mat in his fur I just noticed. (armpit area so hard to see) It probably is causing him some discomfort as well. It's so thick my scissors barely made a cut, so while they sedate him to check it out, I will ask they shave that off for him. I tried clippers and he jumped 2 feet in the air so I decided it was best not to try again.
     
  4. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Poor Beast! That long fur sure does look elegant but it can be a real PIA sometimes! ;)
     
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  5. BBelshan

    BBelshan Member

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    Yeah, his fur is usually so fluffy and pretty. He grooms well. I did manage to cut some of it off with the kitchen meat scissors, but as they are super sharp, I didn't want to get too close to his skin. Maybe with the majority of it gone, he can either get the rest out with grooming or at least make it easier on the vet to shave off.
     
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  6. BBelshan

    BBelshan Member

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    Feb 11, 2019
    Well the streak ended, but maybe once things settle down his numbers will be good again. The vet recommended cosequin, but I don't think he likes the taste of the treat. I am thinking about getting the liquid drop version. Supposedly it doesn't raise the BG.
     
  7. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Don't be down trodden. His numbers are not bad at all. He may just need a little more insulin support to make it over the finish line.
     
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  8. AmandaE

    AmandaE Well-Known Member

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    Mar 18, 2019
    Thinking of you and Beast, Fingers crosses that he will be in remission soon!!
     
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  9. BBelshan

    BBelshan Member

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    Thanks so much for thinking of him. He is back on track. I haven't updated my spreadsheet yet, but he has been under 120 the few times I managed to get blood from him. It's been a little over a week since the last drop so only a little bit to go before I can relax. I hope things are also settling down for you and Mowgli. It's always super stressful the first month for everyone I think.
     
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  10. AmandaE

    AmandaE Well-Known Member

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    Mar 18, 2019
    I'm so glad to hear it!

    It has been stressful, but I am definitely holding a lot of hope Mowgli will get better, even just seeing how close Beast is to possible remission really lifts my spirits about it :)
     
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  11. BBelshan

    BBelshan Member

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    Feb 11, 2019
    Finally got around to updating my sheet. He is on day ten of no insulin. Hope you have more good blues and some dark greens soon!
     
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  12. BBelshan

    BBelshan Member

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    Feb 11, 2019
    Beast has not been wanting to bleed for me lately or he flicks it off when he does, but finally got a recent test. His numbers are still good. I will still try to test 2 times a week for a while to make sure they stay that way. His hair is no longer oily and full of dandruff, his weight seems to be stable as well.
     
  13. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Oh that dreaded head flick! The bane of every sugar cat caregiver's testing experience! If you get a bead of blood to test with, grab it on a clean finger nail and test from there rather than losing the sample. ;)

    ETA Still looking pretty good. Glad to hear he's otherwise stable and looking better.
     
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  14. BBelshan

    BBelshan Member

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    I've thought about the fingernail thing I have seen others post about. I tend not to use the petroleum jelly or neosporin before test so I worry that using a fingernail would just make the blood smear into his fur. Just touching his ears makes him fold them back so it gets a bit fiddly. It's worth trying though, easier to grab on a nail than a moving cat.
     
  15. AmandaE

    AmandaE Well-Known Member

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    Mar 18, 2019
    I haven't seen ANYONE mention this method in all of my reading so far! what a game changer!!

    For me, I think Mowgli has finally learned that blood test + good behaviour = food

    I hope that the fingernail trick works for you @BBelshan; I have a feeling that I will have a chance to use it in the future too :D
     
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  16. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    A very tiny skim of petroleum jelly definitely does help get the blood to bead up rather than spread into the fur. I found with my girl's black fur, the blood bead was hard to see and the petroleum jelly really helped.
     
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  17. BBelshan

    BBelshan Member

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    Feb 11, 2019
    His numbers had been holding steady. Although not low enough for a "strong/long" remission. My other cat had some stomach upset recently - I think due to fish being an ingredient in the turkey & giblets I wasn't aware of so I ordered pro-pets hyperbiotics. I gave it to them both. I am not sure if there are any carbs - no sugar but cellulose is listed. After 3 days his numbers have went up. 144 earned him a drop.
     
  18. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Make sure you test Beast again around +3 to see whether his BG is dropping or not and if it is, by how much. Our kitties are small creatures and even a drop of insulin can have a good effect on BG.
     
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  19. BBelshan

    BBelshan Member

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    Feb 11, 2019
    Ok, I will try to test him at bedtime. A drop is hard to eye on my 40u syringes. Since it has been a while since his last dose I didn't want to give him more than a drop. Do you think the probiotics could have raised his numbers, or just raising again since his numbers weren't as low as they needed to go for a strong remission?
     
  20. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    In humans cellulose can have a positive rather than negative effect of BG. In cats I have no idea but I doubt it would have any major negative effect. I have given my diabetic allergy pills that have cellulose and have not seen any increase in BG as a result.
     
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  21. BBelshan

    BBelshan Member

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    Ah, that's good to know. I did manage to get a test at +3 and it is 72. Pretty heavy drop from the starting point. I hope his body doesn't freak out and start bouncing. I can't give less with the syringes I have.
     
  22. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Ok do you have any medium carb or high carb food available? If not, mix a 1/2 tsp of honey or karo into his normal Friskies to give him a little boost. That isn't a huge drop but it is substantial and you don't want him going any lower. Please feed him and retest again in 30 minutes after he's eaten.
     
  23. BBelshan

    BBelshan Member

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    I only have high carb dry food left from before the switch, I do have some honey I could give him.
     
  24. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Mix a little bit (1/2 tsp) into his usual low carb food or just give him the honey. Just want to boost his BG up some so he stays in safe numbers. You really don't want him dropping below 90 or so.
     
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  25. BBelshan

    BBelshan Member

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    I mixed some with the food that was left in his bowl. He licked a bit of it, but he may have been full from two meals. I will try to test again in a few minutes, but not sure if I can entice him to eat again. That is the only way I have been able to test him is while he is distracted with a meal.

    Not sure if you have seen the thread in the main health forum. Kitty Anderson is using Caninsulin which I thought was the same as Vetsulin - getting close to remission as well - was being given advice to shoot a drop to keep their cat in the greens for a stronger remission. Testing drops in the low 100s. http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/possible-remission.213551/ Not sure if you have seen that thread. I don't think I am brave enough to dose those numbers.
     
  26. BBelshan

    BBelshan Member

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    No luck with the test. He didn't lick up anymore of the honey. So I put out some milk for him. He loves milk and doesn't seem too intolerant to it. He licked it while I tested but he was so wary from the previous tests (takes several pokes) that he would not hold his ears still and when I did poke him he didn't bleed enough. Eventually he walked away as the milk wasn't worth the pokes.
     
  27. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Ok well try to get another test when you can but don't assume is his OK because he could still drop further. You need to be sure he doesn't drop too low and with Vetsulin, we don't aim to get kitty down into the 50s and 60s. Even 70 is a bit low for Vetsulin. Re: the other thread, I would not dose the cat at those levels either. Vetsulin (Caninsulin) can and does often cause steep drops in BG so while there is discussion about "strong" remission, the safety of the cat IMHO comes first and it's not always possible to aim for the same low BG range one can attain with some longer lasting gentler insulins.
     
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  28. BBelshan

    BBelshan Member

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    Ok, I will try to test one more time before I go to sleep. Thanks for responding! I don't like that number either hopefully he will be at nadir and start coming back up.
     
  29. BBelshan

    BBelshan Member

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    Sorry, I forgot to check back in. Beast did well through the night, but as usual did not want to bleed for me. I've tried to test at least once a day every day and no luck except a few times. I tried getting in a new meter that takes less blood, but I didn't like the awkwardness of the new strips. Contour has rounded edge and the On Call is squared and thicker. I could not get it to sip at an angle, had to press straight down. It was accurate and cheap but gonna stick with the Contour Next One. His numbers (though not many) seem to be getting back to the good range with no insulin. Not sure why the spike that day. I think I will get thicker lancets. I'd rather poke once with a thicker one than 10 times with a thinner one. I had already switched from 30 to 28, but guess smaller number the better.
     
  30. CandyH and Catcat

    CandyH and Catcat Member

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    Apr 23, 2019
    I had good luck a couple of times with getting blood droplet on my fingernail, then testing from there -- until my one longer nail split off, as my nails usually do -- what I'm using these days is one of those tiny sample spoons that you get at Baskin & Robbins ice cream -- I suppose most any small plastic spoon might work, get the blood droplet big enough to see, then scoop it out/off with the spoon (or small spatula?) let the cat go, test the blood on/in the spoon, then go back and clamp cotton or tissue around the ear test site
     
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  31. BBelshan

    BBelshan Member

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    Feb 11, 2019
    Thanks for the tip, unfortunately most of my issue is just trying to get his ear to bleed. I'll poke 3-5 times on each side and nothing. I know warming it would help, but he just won't hold still for me. Some times he does have a teeny tiny drop, but it isn't enough to test. Usually if he gets a big enough drop I can usually test while on his ear and if he flicks it sometimes I can find where it went. He hates his ears being touched so I'm afraid that if I tried the fingernail method he'd just move and I'd smear it into his fur. If I see enough blood I just scruff him to hold him still.
     
  32. CandyH and Catcat

    CandyH and Catcat Member

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    Apr 23, 2019
    yes, been there done that -- lately the only successful tests I've gotten, is when he had his nose buried in food -- tried a couple of times to do it without food, got huge yowls, struggles, attempted bites -- AND no blood enough to test (got it smeared a bit on finger, wasted 5 test strips hoping that was enough; ears are looking pretty ragged now, I'm giving him a break except for preshots == and even then had to try three or four times to get them
     
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