Hello everyone...I am Allison here with Bubbles (newly diagnosed)

Discussion in 'Welcome to the Group - Post an Introduction Here' started by allison and Bubbles, Mar 7, 2018.

  1. allison and Bubbles

    allison and Bubbles Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2018
    I am not sure where to post my question or if this will even be seen by anyone as I have never joined a forum...testing testing...can anyone see this?
     
  2. Tracey&Jones

    Tracey&Jones Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2016
    Hello....message received.
     
  3. Tracey&Jones

    Tracey&Jones Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2016
    Sorry, if there is a question you can go to the main forum and post them there.3
     
  4. allison and Bubbles

    allison and Bubbles Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2018
    Thanks Tracey and Jones....!I have been researching feline diabetes for five days straight since my 17 yr old kitty Bubbles was diagnosed ...I have serious doubts about whether to start treating her with insulin since as I understand once you begin treatment you cannot ever stop ...here is my concern...I adopted Bubbles almost a year ago from an spca...she may be old but she stole my heart and i have become incredibly attached to her...she however has not returned my affections and doesnt like to be touched or held...my concern is the good possibility that l will need to force feed her twice a day as she has very little appetite (likely age related)...I am concerned she has something else wrong with her as her appetite has diminished rapidly in three weeks and she has lost a pound already...the thought of holding her down to give her a needle is bad enough let alone warming and pricking her ear and FORCE feeding her twice a day...I wanted the twighlight time of her life to be happy and stress free...I just cannot imagine her being receptive to any of this...would it be kinder and in her better interests to let her live out her days in relative peace? She seems pain free and in no discomfort other than she is sleepy and drinks alot...this is almost the hardest decision i have ever had to make...what would she tell me if she could talk?
     
    Tracey&Jones likes this.
  5. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    Jill & Alex (GA) likes this.
  6. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    sorry you are facing this issue. You are kind to take in an older cat who isn't a snuggler. I will let you know that the injections are not painful at all, and they barely feel them. Not treating diabetes however is very painful as eventually it causes organ failure. what do you mean by once you start insulin you can't stop? It's not addictive... it's just that if the cat needs it, they need it. My cat was diagnosed May 2016. She needed insulin for four months, then went into remission for a year where she needed no shots, and then in sept of this year she needed to start shots again.

    You don't need to "force feed" your cat as long as she's eating enough. You will want to switch to an all wet, low carb diet such as fancy feast classic or friskies pate... no dry food. Diabetes causes cats to loose weight because they can not properly utilize the food... so it's kind of going right through them. Once she starts insulin that should improve unless there's something else going on with her. Many people with "skiddish" cats find giving the injection while the cat is eating is a good technique, and that many times the cat doesn't even notice.

    what was your cat blood glucose level at time of diagnosis?
     
    Tracey&Jones likes this.
  7. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    @allison goodall is new to forums and asked some questions in a private message instead of on here... So I'm going to copy and paste her message here so others can chime in as well:

    "
    Thanks Janet!...Her glucose level five days ago was 33 ...according to my vet it should be btwn 4 and 9...I have been told by our local cat shelter (they have treated diabetic cats and seem to have more info than my vet) that she MUST eat three whole tablespoons of the friskies I am currently feeding her (the ONLY wet food I can get her remotely interested in and I have tried all flavours ) before her shot...this is my biggest concern (not the shot itself)...I was told it is too dangerous to even give her any insulin if she doesn't eat this amount of food...she only eats ONE tablespoon or at most two twice a day when I place her food down for her...how does anyone handle force feeding their kitty? more importantly how will Bubbles handle it?...I have had many old cats and they all lose their appetite as they get up in their teens...it would be an easier consideration if I had a snuggler kitty who had some attachment to me as she may feel less scared or less opposed to this procedure...is the BG testing an absolute necessity aswell twice a day? "

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Yes, that's quite high, and she does need to start insulin. If she's a grazer I would say as long as she's interested in food and eats something, go ahead and shoot.... No food + high BG + no insulin is a recipe for developing KEYTONES which can be deadly! At her levels it's really important she get insulin started right away!

    Was she previously eating dry food?

    Which insulin have you been perscribed? What dose?

    You can feed more then just twice a day, just no food 2 hours prior to the preshot test. My cats graze all day long.

    BG testing is definitely SAFER then not... and if you can get your cat desensitized to having her ears touched so that it's a possibility, that would really be a good thing. I have a link in my signature below showing how I test my cat CC at home.
     
    Jill & Alex (GA) likes this.
  8. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    THere are other things you can do to try to entice your cat to eat more... Try warming up the food, adding parmasian cheese, sprinkling bonito flakes (dried fish used in asian cooking... you can get it on amazon), or FortiFlora... If that doesn't work and she's still loosing weight you could also ask your vet to give you an appetite stimulant to jump start her eating.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2018
  9. Kathryn & Nugget

    Kathryn & Nugget Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2018
    Hi Allison. Nugget is newly diagnosed like Bubbles. She is 10. We are doing everything we can to follow the dosing and administration protocol of the Lantus insulin in the event that we can get her into remission. She does not eat the wet food like she ate the dry- dry she was a grazer, all day, all night. When she was eating only dry food and got wet food as a treat she would scarf down a 3oz can of food like it was nobody's business. Now she is eating much slower- the wet food will stay in her bowl for a few hours, but eventually she does eat it all.

    A friend at work suggested squeezing a capsule of fish oil onto her food (that is what she does for her older cats, not diabetic) and she says it works to get them to eat. Maybe that would work for you. Definitely try giving her the insulin while she is eating. My Nugget does not even feel the needle. We started home testing and she isn't even bothered by the ear prick. The needles are so teeny tiny they don't feel them. Honestly, it is more traumatic for the human than the cat.

    Go with your gut about treatment, but understand that diabetes just won't go away... she might not appear to be in pain or discomfort but then again, she can't tell you. You can always try the treatment for a few weeks and re-evaluate after that.
     
  10. Tracey&Jones

    Tracey&Jones Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2016
    We have had a few people here with former strays that have found ways to make the testing and injecting work.

    It may take time and and a very slow pace. Lots of treats. Is there a special treat that she likes?

    Jones free feeds. All I make sure is if he will take a few bites before injecting. He eats all day at his own pace otherwise. I heat Jones' food up for a little bit and put a crushed up treat on it to entice his first couple of bites.


    Has Bubbles been diagnosed with anything else?
     
  11. allison and Bubbles

    allison and Bubbles Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2018
    Tha
    hi Tracy ...wow i have been quite misinformed it seems...as I keep reading and hearing that if they do not eat a specific amount right before the shot of insulin it could be very likely fatal...this is why I have been so reluctant to begin her treatment. .also i have been reading that it can be too traumatizing to the cat and that you must NEVER stop the injections once you start or she will die...omgosh this has been devestating...I am extremely pleased to hear that hypoglycemia is not expected immediately following a shot of insulin if i am unable to get her to eat three whole tablespoons ...is there a certain amount they MUST eat BEFORE the shot or during the day?What if she doesn't eat all day?
     
  12. allison and Bubbles

    allison and Bubbles Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2018
    Also can you tell me how to navigate my way through this forum so I can make my message public?
     
  13. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    all these messages on the forum are public... it's just private conversations people can't see.
     
  14. Tracey&Jones

    Tracey&Jones Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2016
    This here is public - any member of the board can read the information put into a thread on the forums.

    If you enter a conversation - that is private between you and the other person.

    The insulins Lantus, Levemir and I believe Prozinc in general a two hour window before onset. So you have two hours to have Bubbles eat something. Most cats are pretty good about eating when their BG's start to drop.

    The methods used here also have fail safes put in to help prevent hypo situations, as well there is people here if you encounter a low number event.

    There is a ton of tools and information on this board never mind the experience that can be found here.
     
  15. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    There is not specific amount, but you want to be aware if her eating STOPS or some other change... you do want to have some food on board for an insulin like vetsulin as it can dip... but she doesn't have to eat a whole can or anything. My cat takes vetsulin. I feed her... she eats a few bites... we're good to go. She goes back to it over time... she's always been a grazer. WHICH INSULIN are you perscribed? vetsulin/ canisiliun/prozinc/novolin/lantus/levemir?
     
  16. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    so anytime you hit reply on here, everyone can see it. if you click on someones name and then choose start a conversation, that's private.
     
  17. allison and Bubbles

    allison and Bubbles Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2018
    lol...thx Janet...I dont know how i even created a private convo...lots to learn here...not too savvy with forums...do you worry if your cat has not enough before the shot...have you ever heard of this sending a cat into diabetic shock...?i believe its called hypoglycemia? and have you ever heard of any reason specifically DURING the ongoing treatment for diabetes that this could happen and why?
     
  18. allison and Bubbles

    allison and Bubbles Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2018
    hi Tracy...omg...just as we are speaking she just meowed very loudly (unusual) and she is twitching her head slightly...is this something related to her untreated diabetes??? has anyone seen this?...panic mode kicking in here ...help
     
  19. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    the best way to prevent hypoglycemia and to catch it before it's scary is to learn how to home test. I actually had an incident in Jan where my cat CC went too low. Thankfully because I test I caught it and was able to get her to an emergency vet. They put her on a dextrose drip (basically sugar water) and she was fine. It was the only time her numbers really caught me by surprise! She was showing absolutely no symptoms, so had I not been testing I wouldn't have caught it. There have been other times that she's dipped low, but it wasn't so low that I couldn't steer it up with some high carb food. Hypos can happen for a number of reasons: if the cat's pancreas starts working a bit (which is what happened to my cat) and it dips lower then expected... if the dose is too high... if the bg was low at the time of the shot and the person didn't test beforehand...
     
  20. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    not really sure... let me tag a few people... @Kris & Teasel , @Chris & China
     
  21. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    did she just twitch once, or is she still doing it.? I'm not sure what that is... but if you are worried then please call your vet
     
  22. allison and Bubbles

    allison and Bubbles Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2018
    hi Janet...wow this is almost too much for one single lady whos not home much...I do not know what to do...she has to eat two hrs before each shot? And at any time she can go hypo or hyperglycemic? leading to seizures and possibly death??What? Does everyone test the BG level before every shot?
     
  23. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    No... I said she can eat all throughout the day and night, just pick up the food 2 hours prior to the preshot test (when/if) you decide to test. Some people are told they should only feed twice a day.

    Most on here test... But in general it's not as common as it is here. When my cat was diagnosed it took me six weeks to start. It wasn't until my vet raised my dose from 1 to 2 units that I got nervous and started testing. Took so much of the stress away.
     
  24. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    I promise you it's not as bad as you are imagining. First master getting your shot routine down. Pick two times 12 hours apart to inject.
     
  25. allison and Bubbles

    allison and Bubbles Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2018
    Thank you for that...I trust ppl.when they say they promise it wont be as hard as i am imagining...most of my friends have advised me to just let her be and let nature take its course...nothing in me can do this...i wonder if it is truly selfish of me to put her through this...a few ppl have said to put her to sleep and not chance some awful suffering at her ripe age of 17...combine all these things with my permanent short term memory loss...its very frightening to me...taking her in for a second opinion to a different vet...thanks Janet and Tracy VERY much for your replies
    hi Kathryn...are you trying to get Nugget to eat exactly two hrs before her shot and also are you feeding her a very specific amt to avoid trouble? how does any busy person keep up with this marathon regiment
     
  26. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    You don't want to feed 2 hours before. What we are saying is you can feed as often as you want EXCEPT no food 2 hours before a preshot test. so say you are going to give the shot at 8:15am. You would make sure there was no food available any time after 6am. You would test at 8am, then feed, then shoot at 8:15.
     
  27. Tracey&Jones

    Tracey&Jones Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2016
    Diabetes is not a death sentence. And the amazing thing is some cats are able to go into remission!

    People have diabetes - at all ages. We don't talk about letting them be till their natural end.

    There is some work up front but once you are in routine...it is pretty doable.

    We have single working people here and we have people at home all the time. All walks of life here. So I am sure the support is here if you are willing to put the time and effort in.
     
    beggargirl likes this.
  28. Magic Johnson

    Magic Johnson Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2018
    Hi Allison, I just wanted to add that 17 is really not that old, my Timba-Tyne was almost 23 when I had to put him down and he had a good long life - 5-6 additional years is a long time :)

    It’s pretty stressful isn’t it with finding out suddenly about diabetes...? It blindsided me... I had just taken mine in for a teeth cleaning and they told me she has diabetes and we have to get her sugar under control first. I STILL have to get the teeth cleaning...

    It’s great to get a second opinion!!!! Sending good thoughts your way....and to BUBBLES! Yea the testing was something I had to do too... the nice thing about it is you REALLY have control knowing what’s going on with your kitty’s body - I’m working at it with Maji I’m new too :)

    K & Maji


    I just thought of something else... the vet can give you something to increase her appetite... this sometimes helps get things going in the right direction...is she constipated? Also I just feed a portion to Maji and immediately give a shot then give her the remainder of her food as reward.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2018
  29. allison and Bubbles

    allison and Bubbles Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2018
    hi magic...your comments were helpful to me especially the one that kitties can live til 23....it is late here in Vancouver ...would you mind if we spoke tommorow...?....
     
    beggargirl, Magic Johnson and JanetNJ like this.
  30. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    Wow 23 is amazing! My childhood cat Claude made it to 21.
     
    Magic Johnson likes this.
  31. Magic Johnson

    Magic Johnson Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2018
    Hi Allison and Bubbles, I just wanted to clarify that when I said I feed Maji and immediately give her the shot, then feed her the rest of the can... what I meant was:

    I give her a small portion of one of those fancy feast cans those tiny kitten size cans like a smallish half of it - I let her eat that, ( this is when I prep the shot, then prep the other half can - which she hears me doing) then after she eats that, she comes into the area I am - I tell her I’m gonna feed and then I give her a shot and extremely quickly get her bowl and show her she’s getting more food - then I can leave for work knowing she got some food in, got her shot which is only 1 unit then she has food left to eat.
     
  32. Kathryn & Nugget

    Kathryn & Nugget Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2018
    Hi Allison,
    We have a pretty strict regiment for feeding and medicating. I wake up at 4:45 AM for work, so I get ready, about 5:15 I test her BG with the meter. Then at 5:30 she gets her 3 oz of wet food. Then, regardless of how much she has eaten, at 6:00 AM I give her the insulin. We are just starting, so she gets 2 units twice a day like clockwork. Then when I get home from work we repeat like clockwork. As soon as I get home I test her BG, then at 5:30 PM she gets another 3 oz of food, and then 6:00 PM she gets her shot.

    It has NOT been easy given my crazy schedule. I am struggling to adjust, especially to the lack of sleep on the weekends as I have to stick to the same routine even on Saturday and Sunday.

    We have gone to 4 different vets, and have an appointment with a specialist in April. It takes a village for sure... hang in there. Give her as much food as she wants, it is okay to give it to her and if she doesn't eat it all right away eventually she will go back. That is what Nugget does, especially if she doesn't love the flavor I give her (she doesn't like chicken- she prefers salmon, the hoity-toity thing she is lol)
     
    Kris & Teasel and Magic Johnson like this.
  33. Kathryn & Nugget

    Kathryn & Nugget Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2018

    I should add to this: I mix her wet food with warm water just to make sure she is adequately hydrated as well! It also makes the food last a little longer so she can graze during the day. We call it soup, my sister does this for her non-diabetic cat who had that FLUTD thing and a $4k surgery... Adequate hydration will also flush out the urinary tract and help prevent UTIs.
     
    Kris & Teasel and Magic Johnson like this.
  34. allison and Bubbles

    allison and Bubbles Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2018
    Thanks Kathryn...unfortunately we have a new development...I just got back from vet and he says her lack of apppetite indicates there is definitely an underlying condition very possibly causing her inappetance. .she is 17...i could go ahead with all tbe diagnostics and possible operations (could be cancer) onlyto discover that she still will need to be forcefed as cats appetite naturally diminishs at tbe age of 17....this is very bad news...
     
  35. allison and Bubbles

    allison and Bubbles Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2018
    I got bad news today from my vet...he says her lack of appetite is most definitely caused by an underlying condition. ..she is 17...this is so sad...the diagnotics themselves ...let alone possible operations will be expensive and very taxing on my old gal...losing hope...i just gave her Cecelia for appetite increase and she immediately threw it up...she is barely eating and in danger of hepatic lipidosis on top of everything else...if the treatment for her underlying condition doesnt improve her appetite ...i am back to trying to force feed her wen she is likely nauseated...I am starting to give up....largely due to the fact that i dont want her in and out of diagnostics and possible recoveries from operations ...at her age anesthics are dangerous too....any thoughts?or ideas on what condition could cause high blood glucose levels?
     
  36. Magic Johnson

    Magic Johnson Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2018

    I’m so sorry Allison... I wish I could help... :(
     
  37. allison and Bubbles

    allison and Bubbles Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2018
    thank you magic...its a pretty quiet moment in my life of fifty yrs when I have to make a hard decision
     
  38. Magic Johnson

    Magic Johnson Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2018
    I understand completely... wishing the best for you both...you know in your heart...
     
  39. allison and Bubbles

    allison and Bubbles Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2018
    Thanks Sweetie...
     
    Magic Johnson likes this.
  40. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    Cerenia is for nausea but it's not an appetite stimulant.


    More important then low carb is getting her to eat something. Will she eat tuna? Boiled chicken? Dry food? Gravy food? Baby food? FortiFlora on top?

    Did the vet check her teeth for dental issues?
     
    beggargirl and Magic Johnson like this.
  41. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    If you need to assist feed ask the vet for a few cans of AD recovery food. It's very smooth pate and high in calorie. Easily watered down to syringe feed.


    Several people on here have also had feeding tubes installed.


    Did the vet check for ketones? Given her diabetes was untreated and dangerously high I should think they are highly likely!


    Please tell me they at least have the cat sub q fluids!?

    if he didn't check for ketones or give fluids you need to see a different vet. Today.
     
    beggargirl and Magic Johnson like this.
  42. Magic Johnson

    Magic Johnson Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2018
  43. allison and Bubbles

    allison and Bubbles Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2018
    thanks tracey for your support ...i cant figure out how to get on the main forum...i might even be on it...and i cannot keep track of who i have exchanged
     
  44. allison and Bubbles

    allison and Bubbles Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2018
    thx janey...I saw different vet yesterday and i am waiting on urinalysis kenone testing...she could have DKA which my last vet did not even warn me about...she is also being tested for pancreatitis that could have been brought on by diabetes untreated...vet gave a shot of painkiller ( wish i could remember the name of it..bupropine or something) which is not killing the pain shes in...she has undiagnosed pain in her abdomen which is another HUGE worry all of a sudden...she was given an antinausea medication and her appetite did actually pick up right away...I was going to put her to sleep yesterday...I have put nine other pets in my life to sleep but the decision with Bubbles has been the hardest...I completely fell apart at the vets...lost any form of composure which has never happened to me...shes so very precious to me and I am pretty much horrified by the fact that my own vet failed to detail the serious nature of her condition and the need for immediate attention...she had no ketones in her urine seven days ago as at least he tested for those but at no point told me her glucose levels were dangerously high at 33....yesterday they were at 35.4...I am sitting here very sick to my stomach over it and also feeling sick about the results of the urinalysis she had done yesterday (the results about DKA and pancreatitis are coming in any moment)...I will not be able to treat her if the test is positive for ketones...this is why I am beyond upset at my vet not telling me the seriousness of her condition...I had no idea it could lead to this ketoacidosis...shes 17...in alot of pain from something xrays couldnt see ...and wont come out of my bathrm cupboard ...this is one of the worst moments I have experienced because if her pain cannot be identified today my choices are very limited....pancreatitis is one thing and possibly treatable but if its not the source of her pain I will put her to rest...
     
  45. Magic Johnson

    Magic Johnson Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2018
    ...keep us posted! I've been wanting to write to you but was respecting your space..
    it kinda sound like pancreatitis! and would make sense why she developed diabetes as a result! plus pancreatitis is very painful...sorta goes with what you are saying

    there is hope!!!

    also xrays usually don't identify soft tissue probs...so that makes sense why it didn't show up on xray...I am keeping my fingers crossed for you and Bubbles!!!

    Bubbles KNOWS you love her! She will feel better if she can get her glucose down. Maji was depressed and lethargic...which I didn't notice right away as I work fulltime...and hubby just assumes kitties sleep all the time...

    Once Maji's glucose came down a notch...I noticed an improvement!!!
     
  46. allison and Bubbles

    allison and Bubbles Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2018
    Hi Magic...yes her teeth were checked...no issue there (l was hoping that might be the problem )...I just posted a detailed description of condition as of yesterday...the prognosis is not looking good and I want her suffering to end ...she started losing her appetite three weeks ago and it has become more and more difficult to get her to eat anything including her favorite treats which she has never once turned away from...I get results today on possible pancreatitis and DKA ....she looks like her sweet little self still but has very suddenly developed "sunken eyes" and lost weight...I have been giving her iv ringers every second night with no significant improvement...very difficult day today...I have to make a decision based on everything ...she has abdominal pain and a very reduced appetite....17 is old but I up until three weeks ago she looked like a five yr old kitty...I have noticed very slight "twitching " with her ears and even her head twitches slightly every cppl minutes....its hard to notice but I have been watching her constantly and have no clue what this could be...
     
  47. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    Pancratitis is painful but treatable. The treatment is ringers daily for awhile, cerenia for nausea, and bupe for pain. I had a cat with it. He felt much better after starting treatment. Took about a week to get back to himself. I'm so glad you went to a different vet.... They will start him on insulin too... Which your first vet should have started him on day one.
     

Share This Page