Hello need advice

Discussion in 'Prozinc / PZI' started by Cat guy, Dec 12, 2017.

  1. Cat guy

    Cat guy New Member

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    Dec 12, 2017
    Hello folks I've had lucky on 1 unit of prozinc for a week. His numbers have been in. The 250 range every 12 hours but the past 24 hrs they shot up to 429 pm 462 am , any advice , thank you
     
  2. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Welcome! Have you been giving your kitty 1 unit twice a day 12 hours apart? That's the recommended starting routine (generally).
    Other info that would be helpful for us:
    • Lucky's age and date of diagnosis
    • what you feed him
    • whether you'll be testing his blood glucose at home and, if so, what meter you have
    • any other meds and health issues he has.
    Meanwhile, take a look at the yellow info stickies at the tpp of this forum's thread list. There's a lot of of info there about ProZinc and how it's dosed. It's also a good idea to set up your signature info so we don't have to keep asking the same questions. You can include the bulleted list I put above. Go to the upper right of this page, click on your name and then click on "signature" in the drop down menu. A text box will appear where you can input the info.
     
  3. Cat guy

    Cat guy New Member

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    Dec 12, 2017
     
  4. Cat guy

    Cat guy New Member

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    Dec 12, 2017
    I posted his data. He's on low carb pate 4-5 times a day ( small amounts) 1 unit prozinc every 12 hours . the past 24 hrs it went up to 429 pm. 462 this morning . why the rebound? Is this common?
     
  5. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Thanks for setting up your signature.

    My kitty had a bout of DKA two months after his diagnosis - very scary and very expensive. Your kitty is only a month post DKA so getting his BG down to a good range is important. It can't be rushed though. It's also a good idea to do urine ketone testing using human test strips available at any pharmacy.

    Here's the BG testing regimen we recommend:
    1. test every day AM and PM before feeding and injecting (no food at least 2 hours before) to see if the planned dose is safe
    2. test at least once near mid cycle or at bedtime daily to see how low the BG goes
    3. do extra tests on days off to fill in the response picture
    4. if indicated by consistently high numbers on your SS, increase the dose by no more than 0.25 u at a time so you don't accidentally go right past a good dose
    5. post here for advice whenever you're confused or unsure of what to do.
    Here are some ways to test urine ketones (daily if you can manage because of his DKA):
    • put the end of the test strip right in his urine stream as he's peeing
    • slip a shallow, long handled spoon under his backside to catch a little pee - you don't need much
    • put a double layer of plastic wrap over his favourite part of the litter box and poke some depressions in it too catch pee.
    Most test strips have to be dipped and allowed to develop for 15 seconds before viewing the colour change in very good light.

    Rebounding (AKA "bouncing" here on FDMB) is very common. Here's an explanation I wrote up a while back:
    1. BG goes low OR lower than usual OR drops too quickly.
    2. Kitty's body panics and thinks there's danger (OMG! My BG is too low!).
    3. Complex physiologic processes take glycogen stored in the liver (I think of it as "bounce fuel"), convert it to glucose and dump it into the bloodstream to counteract the perceived dangerously low BG.
    4. These processes go into overdrive in kitties who are bounce prone and keep the BG propped up varying lengths of time (AKA bouncing).
    5. Bounce prone kitty repeats this until his body learns that healthy low numbers are safe. Some kitties are slow learners.
    6. Too high a dose of insulin can keep them bouncing over and over until the " bounce fuel" runs out and they crash - ie., have a hypo episode. That's why we worry so much about kitties that have had too high a starting dose prescribed by the vet and the owner isn't home testing.

    It would be very helpful to us if you'd set up the spreadsheet we use here. It's viewable by all members and is the first thing we look at before offering advice:
    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/

    I hope this helps. :)
     
  6. Cat guy

    Cat guy New Member

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    Dec 12, 2017
    Thank you kris and teasel . sounds like lucky is bouncing. Soon I'll do a 12hr curve. He's only been on insulin for 8 days ( the fdk was treated last monday) sorry for the misunderstand. Is he in trouble with such high numbers ? I'm worried!!!
     
  7. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    So - DKA only a little over a week ago? Is he eating well now? Very important because not eating = can't give insulin = risk of ketones (re)developing.

    Try not to worry. Get a testing routine up and running ASAP, set up a spreadsheet ASAP, log your data and post here as often as needed to get feedback on dosing and assessing BG numbers. We can help!

    A 12 hour curve can be limited in usefulness if a cat is bouncing. If the curve day falls on a day when his BGs are high and flat it can look like the dose is too low. A scattering of tests at strategic times over several days is much more useful. Here are some strategic times to capture:
    • around 1 to 3 hours after the injection to determine time of onset of insulin action
    • around 4 to 7 hours after injection to see when peak insulin action happens (ie., lowest BG - the nadir - occurs)
    • around 8 to 11 hours after injection to determine duration of the dose.
    At this point your best testing goal is to find the timing and magnitude of his nadir. I'd focus on those all-important preshot tests as well as 1 or 2 mid cycle tests (a cycle is the 12 hours after a dose is given when the full action profile of the dose should be evident).

    If you accumulate 3 or 4 days of data and we see that he's staying high we'll likely suggest a dose increase to 1.25 u. With the recent DKA, there's a bit more urgency in getting BG down a bit. Data will tell the story.
     
  8. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 17, 2016
    I hope I haven't overwhelmed you. o_O
     
  9. Cat guy

    Cat guy New Member

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    Dec 12, 2017
    Thanks guys, he's eating 5_ 6 small meals per day. His
    No, not at all , thanks so much . lucky has been roughly in 250 range for 6 days and jumped to the 450 range. I hope it's not life threatening. He is eating 4 to 5 small meals a day. I'll try to test more to more often over the weekend to find his nadir. Thank you .p.s. Are these flucuatings normal?
     
  10. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Yes, fluctuations are very normal especially in the early days. A short time in high numbers isn't life threatening but you have to be very vigilant in a kitty just coming off a bout of DKA. They're still fragile and vulnerable to the redevelopment of ketones. I strongly encourage you to start urine ketone testing as outlined above.
     
  11. Cat guy

    Cat guy New Member

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    Dec 12, 2017
    The ketones are more of a problem as lucky lives with 3 other sibling cats. Is eating a sign that the ketones are in control?
     
  12. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Aug 1, 2015
    It's not a guarantee, but it's a good indicator. You'll get good at learning his peeing patterns and stalking him around the time he usually goes. Oh, the things we talk about here! :rolleyes:

    Kris has given you some great information already, so I'll just say hi and welcome! Oh, and let us know if you have any trouble getting the spreadsheet going. There are folks here who can do it for you if you need help. :)
     
  13. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    My guy is one of three kitties that share a large litter box. I've learned his "pee patterns" so I know when he's likely to use the litter box.
     
  14. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 25, 2013
    Generally, eating is a good sign. As Djamila said not a guarantee, but there are no guarantees really. But most cats who go DKA stop eating (or DRASTICALLY reduce eating).
     
  15. Cat guy

    Cat guy New Member

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    Dec 12, 2017
    Lucky is improving. He is in the low 200 bs after i gradually increased his dosage to 2 units. Had a disagreement with a vet about the dosage.i realized that there not always correct. Anyway, i started on sub cutaneous fluids last night, he's eating better( always low carb) and perking up. Thank you forum people, you are so kind and helpful. Maybe in a month or so I'll have his dental work done , trying to cover all the bases. Can't believe my vet is pushing hill's dm. Beginning to think that the just want to make money!!!!!
     
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  16. Cat guy

    Cat guy New Member

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    Dec 12, 2017
    Lucky a.k.a. chuck .facebook_1514056975616.jpg
     

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  17. Cat guy

    Cat guy New Member

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    Dec 12, 2017
    .facebook_1514058393100.jpg .facebook_1514058373788.jpg Luckys sister mojo
     

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  18. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 17, 2016
    You have gorgeous kitties! :D
     
  19. Cat guy

    Cat guy New Member

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    Dec 12, 2017
    Luckys sister mojo
    Thank you kris and teasel
     
  20. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Aug 1, 2015
    What handsome kitties!
     
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  21. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 25, 2013
    How lovely!! We love getting to see pictures!
     
    Critter Mom and Cat guy like this.
  22. donnalea

    donnalea Member

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    Jun 18, 2016
    They're both beautiful.
     
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