HELP. 12/8/15 Smokey-PMPS 98; +1=95; +1.5=117; +3=76; +4=66; +4.5=62; +5=60; +5.5=85; +6=107; +7=123

Here is yesterday's condo. I hope
12/7/15 Smokey--AMPS 372; +4=344; PMPS 377; +4=320

If not I don't know what the problem is.

 

I hope Smokey heads down toda.

The link didn't work. You have to copy the link from the address bar in your browser.

 

Smokey is smoking!

 

All right, Smokey, you're back in the 200's. Let's see where you go from here.

 

Heading down slowly. I'm shooting tonight regardless, well unless he's to low but I doubt it. What does everyone think about his stop being @ 150? I know what to do and new delivery of strips arrived. Which for him means going real low anyways, he always knows when they come.

 

Not an expert on dosing, but judging by his spreadsheet, it looks like he tends to go up right after his shot - so I would think that it's safe to shoot a slightly lower number.

 

Seems quite hungry at +4 and +5. Trying to keep his feedings on track. He doesn't want to follow it today. He should have eaten at 11 and 2. He did eat at 11 and was still hungry at 1 so I gave him YA. Now I hope he lasts to 7 because 5 is his stop until his test.

 

Six cycles after that green, looks like Smokey is clearing the bounce. You have shot full dose into a 170. Taking it down 10-20% (meter variance) would put you around 145-150.

 

Yup. Here's hoping Smokey gives you a chance to shoot a lower number.

Marilyn and Polly

 

I've got to put my suit of armour on and just do this

 

You can do it, Paula!!

 

I know NOT to shoot. This his regular time to eat and he is begging. But does this mean he gets nothing this cycle?

 

He's above 90, you're fully stocked with supplies and can monitor. I would shoot

 

The 2u? I was hoping for at least over 120. My strips didn't arrive today. Have about 15 maybe 20 left.

 

Have you fed anything yet? Are you supposed to get more strips tomorrow?

 

He had his regular meal 1 hr ago. He dropped to 95. I haven't shot yet. Strips were suppose to be here today. I tracked them and looks like tomorrow. But I can get from vet tomorrow.

 

That will be enough strips to get you through the night. He hasn't really dropped but he hasn't had a food spike either but from the +1s that you have he doesn't seem to spike much. How far of track are you able to get? If your schedule can take it I would test again at what would have been +2 and shoot the full dose if he is flat or rising.

 

It sounds like you are an hour past shot time. If you shoot now, or later, your shot tomorrow morning should be 12 hours from the time you shoot. Can you do that?

 

I can shoot later tomorrow. I gave 1.75u at +1 assuming I can give .25 @+1.5 . He has hypo twice @ +3. I really can't imagine his AMPS shot is kicking in now.

I just wrapped my head around this knowing i have to do this but didn't expect a double digit at PMPS. And I really hope tonight isn't an all nighter since it's one of my days to work. Why couldn't he have done this yesterday or wait till tomorrow night. Ahhhh!

 

Our kitties have the worst timing.

It's generally not recommended that you split the dose and give two shots because you could end up with two nadirs.

 

I agree with Csrla. If you gave 1.75U, just stick with that.

Your +1 number now becomes your PMPS. In the spreadsheet, you can put "98 @+12" in the +11 column, then put 95 @+13 in the PMPS column. That'll let us know that you stalled for an hour.

Since this is your lowest shot to day - and congratulations by the way!! - I'd get a +1 and a +2 to see what he has planned for this cycle.

 

Tee hee hee he's a cat that's why!

Often when a kitty's going to go low they will do it early in the cycle. We usually reserve the term 'hypo' for a symptomatic episode because it has such scary connotations. Smokey hasn't done that has he? I can't see it on your spreadsheet. Although a number like 50 seems extremely low to you it's a pretty safe number - time to intervene when there's insulin on board to make sure it doesn't go any lower but a non-diabetic cat can sit there happily.

I've never split a dose so can't give any advice on that. My inclination is not to give anymore now that you've shot but that may well be just because I have no experience with it. You'll want to get a+1 and +2 to see how he's going. Don't forget to update your subject line so we can easily keep an eye on you.

 

@Vyktors Mum - She is using the AT. 50 is lower than we'd like to see.

But I agree with Serryn, commenting on the Remarks section on the times he actually saw hypo symptoms is a good idea.

 

I need a drink, this is so nerve wracking. I finally shoot some what low (for me) and I mess it up again. Maybe it won't be so bad this time.

 

Shooting a slightly lower dose the first time you see a preshot that much lower than you are used to is not messing it up! It's a valid option. This is all a data gathering experience. Shooting full dose on a lower number is much easier to do on a daytime when you can monitor.

 

3 times he's been under 50. The 1st time was before I knew anything. The 2nd time was 3 days after the 1st . That was the worst.

 

I think they are there, you have to go back to September. It's to hard on my phone so when I get to tablet I will check.

 

I can see the low numbers but not that there were any hypo symptoms if there were it is important to make a note of them.

You definitely didn't mess this up, it is extremely nerve wracking until you have experience with shooting lower numbers and I actually thought you'd chicken out all together so I for one am impressed

Is that 117 actually an hour and a half after you shot or just half an hour? Either way he's travelling well but I think your PMPS was actually the 95 and the plus count starts from there.

 

The 95 and when I shot was 8pm (hour late) the 117 is 30 minutes after the shot also when I gave him the rest of his dose.

I entered the first time. But can't find the thread for the one where he was breathing funny so I don't know what day it was. I even searched.

So actually I shot at the 95 because I was waiting to hear. But then didn't want to get to far off.

Sooooo it really ok to shoot 2u under 100??? I'm going to test in 1 hr before bed. If he higher than the 117 is it safe for me to go to bed or should I set my alarm and check him in the middle of the night?

 

Unless he's really spiked up and gone into bounce mode I would set the alarm for a couple of hours time. If he's gone lower you might need to stay up a bit longer...

It is fine to shoot the full dose under 100 once you have enough data to do so (I think that you're there and tonight will provide more) and providing you are able to monitor. Shooting lower tends to result in flatter cycles and a lower range overall.

 

The saying here is to shoot low to stay low. Lantus is great at grabbing those numbers and keeping things steady. But we wouldn't expect you to do that without experience in gradually lower numbers.

And it doesn't matter the size of the dose when shooting low. This dose is whatever that particular cat needs. To really set things in perspective, take a look at Crystal's SS. She is our current largest big gulper. But Suki only got there in a slow and safe manner.

 

Nice shooting, Paula! I had to get a few preshots under 150 before I could deal with double digits.
Smokey...surf safely bud! No freakin' out the bean tonight ok?

 

PMPS +3=76. Guess I'll be up a while.

 

We'll be around to keep you company

 

Are you doing TR or SLGS? I had it in my head that it was SLGS but it's not in your signature so I'm not sure why I have that idea???

 

Hang in there Paula, I was going to suggest some wine, but I think you'd better have some coffee! Come on Smokey, let's just stop there at 76, your mom needs some rest tonight!

 

Sort of in between the too. There is dry food in the house. But he hasn't got into it lately. Normally if dose changes its 5 days not the for TR or the 7 for SLGS.

 

Steady now, Smokey!

 

I don't drink either of those. And I have to work tomorrow. I only work 2 days a week. Tomorrow being one of them.

 

Thanks. I'm going to be on the couch and set alarm .

 

He might make it a moot point if he goes low enough for a reduction under either

 

I'll be in for a bounce won't he.

 

That's too bad you have to work tomorrow, hopefully you will be able to get some sleep.

 

Go, Smokey, but surf in nice safe greens or blues so your mama can get some sleep before work! Paula, congrats on shooting a low number.

 

Remind me the lows are plz. On phone so hard to pull up

 

Yeah well why did it have to be tonight!!!

 

Gonna have to check every hr unless he really drops. I won't have enough strips.

I do have a ultra touch mini if I need to but I wouldn't know how to interpret the numbers.

 

The low on an Alphatrak is 68. If you need to switch to the human meter, the low is 50.

Good luck!

 

He is 66 now. 5% carb food given no symptoms.

 

Unless you're very confident low carb will pull him up (I can't tell from your spreadsheet) I would give a tsp or two of high carb now, he's proved his point and we'd prefer him to surf a little higher.

ETA: and a reduction to 1.75 as his 'permanent' new dose has been earned

 

I'd test again in no more than 30 minutes. Do you have any higher carb food like gravy lovers just in case?

ETA: @Vyktors Mum <-- what she said

 

Yes. Wanted to try this first. Is 5% a med carb %?

Will be testing in 3 minutes.

Is playing with catnip toy a symptom?

My alarm is set for every 30 minutes.

+4.5=62 FF chicken broth given.

Anything lower will now get syrup.

Guess I need to call out of work.

 

i think anything under 8-10% is considered low carb. 10-15% would be medium, gravy lovers clocks in around 20%

good looking on the alarms

 

This is what I have been trying to avoid. But I guess you can't.

He doesn't seem to hold the 1.75u though. So how do we get past it?

 

You can always carb him up good and abort the cycle if you really need to.

If he doesn't hold decent numbers at 1.75 you can go to Fat 1.75 or Skinny 2u.

 

5% is LC, as Andy said anything under 10% is considered LC. Do you know what the carbs are in the broth? It doesn't sound very high carb?

Playing with his toy is just plain cute but exercise can lower BG so not too much play right now.

 

I'd rather not. I'd like him to come up on his own as much as possible so he gets use to the low numbers.

Funny while I was testing the PMPS my phone rang but I didn't answer. It was the vet calling me on the ss I dropped off yesterday. Wish I could have talked to him and let him know about the 98. His vm said he's a little high, might need to raise dose. Guess he will be surprised.

 

Don't know what it is. It's a pouch FF broth classic. It not thick like gravy. It has shreds of food.

His playing is flipping twice then licks it to death.

 

With a long term diabetic we usually like to see three drops under 68 (on the AT, 50 on the human meter) sorry I forgot earlier that he was a long termer, before reducing. Or one drop under 40 on a human meter. Problem here is no one knows what 40 on a human meter is equivalent to on an AT Let me have a good look at his spreadsheet.

Have you got anything with gravy, the broth doesn't sound very carby.

 

I am learning so much here!! hang in there )

 

Drops on same night, different days, weeks????

 

Wowza, Smokey! He never just surfs in the high greens, he just bounces from high to low. Smokey Protocol indeed!

Good luck tonight, Paula. Hope you manage to get a little rest.

And I think Serryn means three separate days where he drops below 68.

 

60 now. Syrup now given an a little more food. He's still very alert and just wants to eat.

Went rummaging through the cabinet. Found some Ff chicken with gravy.

I might chicken out of the next low shoot.

 

He does seem to like to bounce around between 1.75 and 2 quite a bit. As long as you can promise to keep stocked up on strips and high carb wet food I would recommend waiting for the 3 drops under (in three different cycles) before reducing (exception being reduce immediately if he goes under 40 on a human meter - AT? Best guess under 50) Alternatively (if your eyes are really good and/or you have a magnifier) you could try shaving the dose to something in between 1.75 and 2.

 

Days in a row? Otherwise he met that goal. No he doest surf. It's one extreme or the other. He surfs in the red.

Certainly can't keep 2U in the morning right?

 

Yeah that's pretty low carb. Sweet potatoes would be the only source in it. You might want to add some honey or karo to it next time, just a drop.

ETA: i see you found gravy fuds while i was searching and typing, thats teriffic

 

I think from what @Vyktors Mum said, yes, you'd stick with 2 units until he's had three separate times of going under 68. They don't need to be 3 days in a row.

Good point from Andy. If you don't have any high carb in the house, you could add a tsp of syrup to his regular lc food.

 

You will be a bit of a zombie tomorrow no doubt and you haven't had many runs like this so quite stressful but shooting lower is the only way to go to try and get them flattened out and then hopefully you'll be able to shoot normal numbers and have him just stay quite flat most of the time. I find that much less stressful than never knowing when they're going to take a swan dive from a high number. Short term pain, long term gain

As for his morning shot we can't really decide now. Chances are he'll bounce to high heaven and you'll be fine shooting 2 units.

 

He done the under 50. I've tried the shave. On ss you will see the 2-1, 2-2. Those are 2u minus 1 drop or 2 drops.

 

He's 85 now. I held syrup and food this time. He drinking a ton of water. And has a lot of gas.

The whole house is up now.

Somewhere in the next 36 hours he will hit a 500+ after this.

 

Ok at this point I'll admit I'm just piggybacking on Serryn, but I think I can explain this.

I would give another try with the shaved/skinny/whatever you want to call in-between dose. You didn't hold it for very many cycles the first time, and it looks like he may have been on a mild bounce during those cycles (he saw some blue a few days earlier). Super flat all day like that usually means bounce, the insulin should show some effect on numbers even if it's not enough.

Did his gas wake everyone up? lol

ETA: I still advocate the full .25 reduction and going back up to a fat dose if necessary, but I think you don't want to do that. As Serryn said we're not sure where that 40 equivalent is on an alphatrack but Smokey got pretty darn close tonight.

 

I'm not seeing anywhere that you shaved after a reduction number??? I see you started shaving on 10/26 but I'm not seeing why as there were no low numbers before that. And also that you shaved for a couple of blue starts but also no low numbers before those. Am I missing something?

Lol on the thought of the gas waking everyone!

 

Guess we'll decide at AMPS. No the gas didn't wake everyone up. The 2 civvies were growling and fussing with each other.

 

No your not. I shaved because of the blue starts to prevent a hypo episode. My rationale was wth his pattern he was gearing up for a hypo and I wanted to prevent it.

 

@Vyktors Mum I think it was all part of Paula's process of coming back up from the reduction on 10/21

 

Didn't think of it that way. I know 2 is too much because he keeps crashing but 1.75 doesn't seem to be enough. Was trying to find the middle.

 

So we are now 107. Without intervention from the previous test.

 

Here's a question. When they get low whether AT or human and you intervene how do they reach the 40 to get the reduction. The point of gravy or syrup is to prevent them from reaching it. I certainly wouldn't let him get that low if I know he's dropping.

 

Ok so you haven't tried a shave for a reduction to see if that will hold, or the waiting for 3 times under 68 on the AT in three separate cycles before taking the reduction so either is a valid option for you in Smokey's circumstances.

Does this make 2 hours without syrup or food?

It's really handy if you make notes in the comments section of your spreadsheet so you (and us) can look back and see what worked and what didn't.

 

You do try and prevent that but sometimes it happens before you can catch it. Vyktor's done it to me twice in the last week...

ETA actually once, the first time he went under 40 I had caught him in the 40s but the food I was giving him didn't bring him up - it was supposed to be HC but I hadn't used it before and I'll not use it again. Back to the FF grilled varieties for our HC!

 

I don't understand. He has been under 68 three times since the start of lantus. 10/8; 10/21; 11/5; 11/12 and tonight.

I thought reduction started the following morning. Didn't know it was 3 separate times.

It's only 1 hr without food.

 

The title won't let me edit anymore.

 

It's three times after starting a dose. You started 2.0 units on December 2nd. In FD, anything over two weeks is old news.

You can remove the AMPS numbers from the title, and just keep the recent data.

 

For a newly diagnosed (within the last 12 months) diabetic they drop under 50 (68 for AT) once and they get an immediate reduction. For long term diabetics we usually make them go under 50 three times in separate cycles at the same dose before taking any reduction.

So on 10/8 there would have been no reduction given because that was only his first time under at that dose. And by 'at that dose' I mean at that dose this time around so Smokey has been at this dose (more or less, there were a couple of reduced doses) since 11/24 and this is his first time under 50 (68 on AT). So either you hold the 2 units until he does it two more times (unless he goes very low and needs an immediate reduction) or you take a shave off the 2 units now, on his first time under.

Does that make sense now?

 

So we would have to go through this 2 more times on 2u?????? Please tell that's not so.

 

Crikey Smokey!!! What a night!

Hang in there, well done on shooting that low number, when the dusts settles you can look back and see what you have learnt, at the moment with the sllep deprivation and stress it'll be difficult, look at it again tomorrow, or when you have had a chance to breath with fresh eyes.

Gill

 

It makes sense but I don't like it. He's going on 18 this can't be good for him. And certainly not good for mama bean.

I need a smoke. Be right back.

 

Remind me not to do it again!!!

 

Just looking at your spread sheet I see you gave the full dose but split it, giving the .25 later.

Think when you look at the numbers later you need to bear this in mind, I can't remember where I read it but remember it was @julie & punkin (ga) , she said, which made sense to me, that if you split a dose, apart from possible getting two nadirs, the other downside is that you can't be sure exactly how much you have given.
ie every time we draw down a dose there is some error, user error, the error in the actual syringe and effectively by splitting the dose we double the error, so if the 1.75 was a little over and then you also give a.25 that's a little over you could be closer to giving a 2.25. Hope that makes sense, she did a much better job of explaining it than my attempt here.

Anyways since I have tagged her perhaps she'll pipe up if shes about.

You did great for smokey, and those lower numbers are what we are all aiming for.

I think you need to ban Smokey from reading the Kitty rule book, he seems to have a few tricks up his sleave for messing his bean about.
Gill

 

It actually is good for him, the more time he spends in normal numbers the better he will feel and if he gets flattened and nicely regulated he will feel better (as far as the diabetes goes) all the time. Too much time spent in high numbers will damage his organs and make him feel pretty blah.

It is a little harder on the bean but definitely not always as hard as tonight. Some learnings to take away from tonight are to give the HC wet food when he drops under rather than the lower carb options that you tried first tonight. The lower carb food wasn't enough to bump him up. With HC food given on the first number under chances are that would have been enough to bump him up then and would have started the process the get him surfing an hour or so earlier. Hopefully by now he would have been surfing away and you'd be asleep. You learn along the way and it gets much much easier.

 

I read splitting was an option. I don't understand how you get 2 lows out of it though.

I understand it better for him in the big picture and I want him regulated but my gosh how much can he take of this before it hurts him.

He actually feels the best in the yellows. He's exhausted now do I really have to drag him out from under the table to test him? Then the highs he's gonna hit, he will be miserable for 24 hrs.

 

I thought the5% would be high enough. I guess I have to stock some of the other stuff.

 

Short term pain, long term gain...

Yes you really do need to test, sorry but you have to make sure the syrup hasn't worn off and he's dropping again. If he doesn't drop back 2 hours after that syrup or he's risen a lot so we can see he's starting to bounce you'll be right for the night.

 

​

 

I woke him up. He's 123. That's 2 hrs without intervention. I just gave him some lc though because he's not going to wait another 5 hrs to eat. AMPS is going to be an hour later because of late PMPS.

Now he's playing again.

Now the other 2 cats are at it hissing and growling.

 

No problem with giving him a bit more LC food that will help him surf safely through what's left of the night. If he's not just going to guts it all right away you could even leave a bit more down for him.

 

It was only 30 minutes apart. So that .25 would be hitting now then.

 

He eat it right up. I could put a frozen puck out. But I think he'll be okay. He will just have to wait.

 

Will be interesting to see what he pulls for his AMPS.

 

Having never split a dose I really don't know for sure but you only took 1/8 of the dose off for later so I'm thinking the effect of that isn't going to be too strong.

 

It sure will - Keep that shoot low to stay low mantra in mind if he hasn't bounced yet - but don't forget to dash out and get more strips!