Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by Adrienne & Molly, Mar 18, 2019.
Continued from previous threads
15.6 this morning what dosage? @Kris & Teasel @MrWorfMen's Mom
Adrienne, I think that is a bounce since Molly went below 90 again last night. I vote to skip the shot this morning.
Let's see what she does. She usually clears bounces quickly so hopefully she will be down tonight.
Also, you've entered this AM's pre shot reading in the PM box.
Ok no shot this morning? Do you think she may have gone lower in the night? Why the bounce?
Also, you've entered this AM's pre shot reading in the PM box. [/QUOTE]
Fixed it’s Monday lol
She may have gone lower last night but she still had a ways to go from that 86 so no worries. Bounces can happen just because Molly isn't yet totally used to the Normal numbers or just from the drop between pre-shot and lowest point. Molly doesn't usually hold bounces long so we may need to skip a couple of doses to let her settle back down to see what she truly can do on her own.
I'm glad Linda was here to advise. I had a very early doctor's appointment.
Me too I probably would’ve given Molly a drop
She might have been OK with a drop but you can't be home to monitor today. Always best to err on the side of caution. Linda was speculating that because she'd dropped a lot by +3 last night that she might have gone even lower, causing the bounce to yellow this AM.
Adrienne, you probably would have been fine giving the drop today but we don't know how low Molly went last night and she dropped a fair bit in the first 3 hours. She may not have dropped much more but it's better to err on the side of caution.
I’m happy you were able to help me this morning Linda. Molly slept with me all night. I woke up frequently to check on her. She had some FF after the +3 testing last night. I left some out for her to munch on during the night. It was gone this morning. She went back to bed this morning.
My pleasure Adrienne. You did exactly the right stuff last night feeding her and leaving food out for her to munch on as needed. Sounds like she had a good night. And you too no doubt with your little one curled up with you.
Well ladies do I give insulin tonight? @Kris & Teasel @MrWorfMen's Mom
I personally say No. Those yellow flat cycles often precede a bounce breaking and lower numbers. Look back at the 11th of March. Let's see where Molly goes over night. She has been breaking her bounces pretty quickly so while I know we don't want those yellow numbers, I'd rather see if she can make it back to blue on her own.
Ok that’s why I asked wasn’t sure what to do
Do I still test her tonight?
9.2 this morning @MrWorfMen's Mom @Kris & Teasel
Amazing! A midblue this AM after no insulin for 24 hours! I suggest another skip this AM.
So no insulin this morning?
Wow and how long do I continue this for?
I concur. No shot this AM. Sorry about your question last night....I was cuddled under my covers with my fur baby when you posted. Another test last night wouldn't have told you much if anything new. I'm sure Molly appreciated the pokey break.
You are going to have to play this by ear at this point Adrienne. See where she's at tonight. She may need the drop dose but we need to see where her "real" BG is sitting sans any bounce influence before deciding next steps. That's a fine blue for a kitty who missed 2 shots.
So don’t test until evening?
Since you have to run home to test, I think you could use a break too. If you were home I'd probably say yes just out of curiosity but I don't think it's going to tell us anything we won't get from tonight's test.
I agree with Linda. No need to drive home at lunch to test. Going forward it's possible she might need a drop dose here and there so those PS tests will continue to be important as well as before bed if you have to give a drop on a particular day.
Does this mean she's going into remission?
I don't want to jump to any conclusions
but I'd say Molly has a very good chance given how well she is doing. Fingers crossed!
I was afraid to ask because of that reason. But yes fingers crossed.
I take it no insulin tonight?
Well that's a toss up. We can try no shot and see what she does by tomorrow morning or you can give her a drop tonight and retest before bed with the understanding that if she is dropping a lot but any chance (I think it's slim) you can give her some SO higher carb food and more or less abort the cycle. I fully realize you need your rest so you can function tomorrow but I'd like to see Molly down into high greens rather than mid blues. Molly's still a wee bit high but not by a lot so either choice is fine.
I’ll give her a drop and test before bed.
I don’t understand the numbers this morning. I guess I jinx myself @MrWorfMen's Mom @Kris & Teasel
HMMMM! Interesting. That seems to suggest Molly went low enough last night to cause another bounce. Is she eating Ok? Just the Fancy Feast?
Just FF and her treats yes she’s eating little piggy. Do I giver her insulin?
I think perhaps that higher AMPS is because the insulin depot was drained by the missed shots. I think I'd give her the drop dose, leave some FF out for her to munch on between shot and a test at lunch time. When do you leave for work? Can you get a +1 test or +2 before you leave? The more data we get, the better we can figure out what she's up to.
So you think the drop dose was missed last night? I’m here for another hour before I have to leave for work.
No. When you were giving Molly 0.25u she built up a depot that keeps working beyond the 12 hour cycle. As the dose reduced to 0.10u the depot again resets itself to the level for the new dose. Each time you lower the dose, it takes a few cycles to see what the new dose is doing because the old dose is still at play to a certain degree. Molly had a lot of quick dose changes so I think that has lowered the depot she has and that is now showing in that her numbers are not dropping as low. It's not the drop dose from last night.....but rather the skipped shots from the 18th and yesterday morning. Her depot is not equivalent to the drop dose anymore so it looks like she still need a tiny bit of insulin.
Sometimes kitties drop down to low doses and then go back up a smidge and back down before they get used to the lower numbers so no worries. This is all normal.
Ok, was a little upset to see the yellow this morning. I’ll test her in an hour. I’m happy that you can help me understanding the bounces and dosing.
It's quite common for BG to wobble and with those quick dose reductions so close together, this doesn't surprise me. She's doing great!
She went up a little, I left FF out for her.
A drop of insulin tonight? @Kris & Teasel @MrWorfMen's Mom
Yes, give Molly a drop again and get the usual before bed test. It will take a few cycles to get her depot built up again.
A drop this morning? @MrWorfMen's Mom @Kris & Teasel
UM .....no! That is the 2nd lowest pre-shot Molly has had yet! It's wonderful and a drop MIGHT be ok IF you were going to be home to monitor but since you aren't, I say skip the shot this AM.
Oh my I gave a drop @MrWorfMen's Mom
Ok. Leave some SO wet food out for Molly and test her at lunch time. I think you are usually home around noon your time (3pm mine)....is that correct? I will check in then to see what she is up to. She will probably be just fine but we really haven't chased her on the drop dose and this is a lower pre-shot so we'll take it cautiously.
Yes I’ll be home at 12 and 3pm your time. She’s really hungry this morning. I gave her some SO food. I’ll test her before I leave.
OK I'll check on you this afternoon.
I came home to test, I was worried I’ll be home at lunch time too.
AHHHH! I'm sorry if I scared you. She is doing fine although that might be the higher carb food "talking" a bit there. Let's see where she is at +6.
I see the 266 @ +6. Interesting. Not sure what she is up to just yet. You can leave her some LC Fancy Feast to munch on this afternoon and relax. Molly is fine.
From the food? I did give her a few kibbles too.
Oh yes the kibble might very well have done that. I know you were concerned and understand why you gave her kibble but the kibble is really high carb and she didn't need anything that high to keep her safe. Let's try to keep it out of the picture for now cause it will bump up the numbers considerably and take longer than the wet to clear her system.
Yes, I was concerned and I won't give her kibble anymore
Over time you'll get used to orchestrating what you feed at what BG level to keep her safe. This weekend is a good time to keep up the drop dose unless her PS is below, say, 5 or 6, to see how she handles it. If she drops quickly or lower than you'd like start by intervening with a little low carb food first. Add in the higher carb wet S/0 only if absolutely necessary. It's important to learn where her boundaries are on days when you can be there to monitor. That gives you good information for what she might do on your days at work.
So if she’s a 5 or 6 tomorrow. I can still giver her a drop? But just monitor her more?
If you're brave you can try that but let's see first how she does today. Lantus can keep BG quite flat in good dark green numbers if it's given on a low-ish PS. Linda and I haven't encouraged you to push the envelope that far because you're away at work and are still in the learning stages of dosing Molly.
Adrienne, Lantus is actually better at holding numbers down than it is at pushing them down. I eventually gave Menace insulin at readings even lower than 5 mmol and she would just sail along in dark green numbers from morning to night. I gradually reduced my BG cut off level over time and was using a bit more aggressive dosing method. It was scary at first but I am retired so my schedule is far more flexible and I could be home with her to see how she reacted and steer her if needed. When you are working all week it's a little harder but I would encourage you to shoot any reading 5 or over when you can monitor so you can see how Molly reacts. It will definitely help when making decisions during the week when monitoring is more sparse.
Ok, We'll see what her numbers are tomorrow. I'll be brave if they're at 5 or 6. I did give her a drop yesterday morning. But got scared where I wasn't going to be home. I'm assuming her BG is still up due to the kibble from yesterday?
Hard to say right now. It might be a small influence but it may be that with all the quick reductions Molly had due to her numbers that she needs either a drop or even an increase back to 0.10u for a period of time. Only by monitoring will we be able to tell. Those missed shots drained out the depot but the drop depot should be close if not back to the right level by now so we should start seeing exactly what the drop is doing for Molly in the next couple of cycles.
It's not uncommon to have to increase again to the last good dose which was 0.10u. Sometimes they wobble a bit.
Just saw that pinkie on the SS. YUCK! I won't be around tomorrow AM and in case Kris is not around either, I wanted to suggest you raise the dose to 0.10u again as long as Molly's AMPS is 150 or higher which I suspect it will be. If you can test her at +3 and again at +5 or +6 it will give us a view of what she is up to on that dose. Want to get her back to those nice blue and dark green numbers. I'll check in when I get home in the afternoon.
Very disappointing to see that. I’m out for the evening and hopefully tomorrow morning. It won’t be as high
Holy moly! Did you do a retest after getting that 76? Your spreadsheet doesn't show a "no shot". Is that what you did?
Ditto on the HOLY MOLY! Just got home and didn't expect that AMPS at all. I can't believe that bit of kibble on Thursday took that long to clear Molly's system and in such a sudden fashion. This is puzzling. Any chance she got into more kibble since Thursday.......an overly accommodating cat Daddy maybe?
Sorry ladies I’ve been sick all day. Haven’t tested Molly. She hasn’t had any kibble. No shot this morning
I'm so sorry to hear you are not well. Molly is obviously doing fine so don't worry about her. Take care of you right now.
I’m feeling a little better. I’ll test her at 6
Should I giver her insulin tonight? If so a drop? @Kris & Teasel @MrWorfMen's Mom
I would say yes but are you feeling up to grabbing another test before bed? Her numbers are a bit puzzling right now so it would be good to know where she is at least +2 and preferably +3 post shot. I doubt she'll get frisky but if she does better to catch it early so you can get some rest.
I’ll test her before bed. I seen this morning she puked a little. More fur than anything
Is she shedding her winter coat? I've had a couple of hairballs out of my fur kids in the last couple of weeks and I like to think that is a sign of spring coming.
Yes, the weather here has been nice. So she must be shedding her winter coat. I’ll have to brush her tomorrow.
I agree with Linda that Molly's number right now are a bit hard to figure out. You don't have to worry though. It just means that the dosing might be a little back and forth. It's important to know exactly what she eats because kibble can really mess things up - if that's been in the picture recently.
Should I increase her dose this morning? @Kris & Teasel @MrWorfMen's Mom
I gave her a drop
Sorry Adrienne. Given that 76 yesterday, I think the drop was the right choice dose wise. While Molly is being a bit of a mystery right now, I think that AMPS might be a bit of a bounce from the green yesterday. Molly may have surfed in lower numbers for awhile yesterday and is reacting to them right now. You made a good decision IMO.
I see the one drop dose for this AM. I think she'll be fine.
Should I have not given any?
Kris was just confirming your decision to give a drop. I too think it was a good call.
Sorry if I wasn't clear. As Linda said, it was a good decision.
No shot this morning. I know when her numbers are lower. She’s hungry and doesn’t want to be tested.
Why is it some mornings she's down in numbers?
That's a good question but also one we will never really know the answer to. Could be less food and or/less activity. A lot of cats run lower at night so she may be surfing in lower numbers for a bit longer and then just doesn't jump back up as far in the morning. It could be that her pancreas is sporadically producing more normal amounts of insulin. Or she just likes to keep you guessing like every other cat.
Should I give Molly insulin tonight @MrWorfMen's Mom @Kris & Teasel ?
She’s pink this evening. I don’t understand what’s going on? She was doing so good.
Sorry Adrienne. I was out last night and didn't check in when I got home cause it was late. You made the right decision giving Molly the drop dose. As for the pink afterwards, that is really within the 15% meter allowance so it could be partly food bump and/or meter variance or a bit of both. Let's see what Molly's BG is in the AM. I think some of the ups and downs you're seeing right now is from the skipped shots and the depot bouncing around a bit as a result.
With SLGS method of dosing, you would skip the shot for any pre-shot under 90 which is what you've been doing. Molly may need a bit more insulin support to get her more used to lower BG and that means you may need to start shooting pre-shots below 90. I am hoping this weekend she will honour us with some lower BGs so we can see what she does when you can monitor her a little more.
Pink numbers this morning
I'd stick with the drop this morning and see what she does. I know I keep going back to the kibble, but are you absolutely sure there is no way Molly is getting into some contraband? Her numbers are, to be honest, a bit puzzling. It's possible she is going lower overnight that we are not seeing without testing later into the night cycle. Maybe over the weekend, you could set an alarm for the middle of the night and get a glimpse at what she is doing while you are sleeping.
I’m absolutely sure she’s not having any kibble. I feed her beef or chicken fancy feast and her treats. I’m a little disappointed with the numbers. I really don’t understand where she was doing so good! She seems more hungrier lately
She likely is a bit hungrier with the slightly higher numbers. Let's use the weekend to try to figure her out. The SLGS method can get kitties into remission but in some cases, it leaves them in a situation like Molly's where her numbers have come down but she is still wobbling a lot and not staying in the lower range we need her to be in. We'll get this figured out but it may mean you are going to have to be a little more aggressive with dosing and perhaps be setting alarms periodically to grab some tests at night to do so safely. Molly is doing well and sometimes it's that final hump that is the hardest.
Is there anything I should be worried about? She ate this morning and went right back to bed
Her BG is wobbling a lot and that is probably making her feel a little less spunky. As long as she is eating, peeing, pooping, preening, purring (if she usually purrs) and playing to some degree or at least is interested in your attention, I wouldn't worry about her.
Should we increase Molly’s insulin?
Yes I think tonight (or tomorrow morning if you prefer) would be a good time to boost her up to 0.10 again and see how she does on that dose.
Sorry, folks. I've been occupied with a lot of other things this week and haven't been here much. I agree with Linda's suggestion to try 0.10 u again this weekend and maybe be a little more aggressive because you're at home to monitor.
I just don’t understand why her numbers are higher
Molly had so many reductions so close together that she just hasn't yet got the "hang" of sitting in lower numbers. She may be a bit higher in the mornings because she is going a bit lower at night than you are seeing. It's a mystery and all we can do is guess and adjust the dose so she starts getting back to the the blues and dark greens again. This is not uncommon. I went up and down on the dose with my girl several times before she finally decided to stay there and started tumbling down the dosing ladder very quickly. Molly's is only 3 months into this journey.....still early days. It's those ups and downs we all find so frustrating but they are completely normal.
What do I do this morning? @MrWorfMen's Mom @Kris & Teasel
Got lots of strips and some higher carb food around (the SO wet is fine) and time to spend on Molly? If so, I'd give her the drop and see what she does. I'm betting she will just surf along nicely but you want to be prepared to take action should her BG drop to lower levels. I will be around to keep tabs on you.
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