HELP....further hypo advice needed..

Been gone all day into evening...husband fed and gave insulin at usual time.(checked his plates and he had not eaten full feed)..took BG hour and 15 minutes ago..was 37(alpha trak)...followed hypo instructions for low BG with only symptom ravenous appetite...at 15 minute intervals his BGs r 48...58...65...76 most recent...feeding teaspoon hi carb food after each test.....how long do I stay doing this before we r in the clear for tonight? Do I continue to test every 30 minutes and feed teaspoon food ? What can I expect tomorrow? Have never gone thru this ....

 

At +5 BG 95

 

We generally say to test every 30 minutes and then 1 more test an hour later once they're above 68 on the Alpha Trak....Once they're above 68 you want to stop feeding the high carb food and see if they can stay in safe numbers without it for about those 2 hours before relaxing (of course if they drop back down again, you start over)

He's DEFINITELY earned a reduction in dose if he got into the 30's on the AT so make sure you reduce his dose tomorrow!!

 

Thanks so much for reply...did quit food at BG 68...last BG +5 was 95..so I need to wait and test again in another hour and if still rising we r in the clear for tonight?

 

At what point in the cycle did you feed the HC?

(don't forget to keep your spreadsheet updated)

 

Also how much of dose reduction ?

 

If you can do a .75 shot (I have never used Vetsulin so not sure about the syringes you have) I'd try that....otherwise I'd go down to .5

 

Fed some hills a/d (12carb) at +4 and +41/2 then no food at +5

 

OK....yeah, I'd check again at +6 just to make sure he's staying up without any more food and then you're probably good for the night

 

Should I check BG again at +6?

 

I would set an alarm to wake me up later just to be sure his BG doesn't come back down again. You can post how things are doing here. Someone is usually around most of the time.

 

Thank u , thank u !! So grateful for hypo sticky info....got me focused and calm when I got home and realized what we were dealing with...what should I watch for tomorrow ....read something about bouncing? Or can going thru hypo have no affect the next day at all ??? What to watch for ??? I know I'm babbling ...its 1a.m. Here

 

He'll probably "bounce" off that 37....and probably bounce pretty high .....that's really low, especially since you're using the AT

Just stick with the reduced dose.....better too high for a day than too low for a moment.

If he doesn't bounce, that would be a surprise!

 

Thanks...the highs freak me out about as bad after experiencing DKA back in July and being hospitalized for 3 days...not a good deal at all but grateful he came thru it ....how long do they bounce? Day? Days? When should it stop and I return to previous dosage?

 

Bounces usually clear within 3 days (6 cycles)

 

Just took BG at +61/2...151...will post on spreadsheet tomorrow morning..one last question : do I reduce dose just tomorrow morning to .5 then back to 1.0 tomorrow night? ....

 

No....I'd hold the .5 until you're sure he's done bouncing and then re-evaluate the dose

Cats don't always bounce straight up and then come straight down again....sometimes they wobble

Keep posting and we'll help you know when he's done and if you need to increase again

 

If you're using U40 syringes (which I assume you are since that's what most Vetsulin users use), you might want to consider getting some U40's that have half unit markings or use U100 syringes with this conversion chart

It would allow you to make smaller changes than .5 at a time

I'm off to bed....if you need more help, there should be more people coming on soon from the other side of the world

 

Yes using U 40... where to get u40 with half markings ? Also would be good idea to call vet and let know ab the hypo? Think I could eyeball the .75 .....will have u explain logic of giving less insulin with higher numbers after some sleep...feeling like I'm hung over from a teenage pj party !!!

 

Goodnight ! Gonna get some sleep and be back tomorrow !!

 

ADW has 3 brands of U40 insulin syringes with half unit markings

UltiCare

CarePoint

BD

 

You're giving less insulin because 1U took him way too low.....You don't want to repeat a trip into the 30's...especially on the AT!!

 

I use the CarePoint syringes and I like them because they are easy to read. They cost about $12 for a box of 100. ADW Diabetes is easy to work with. They deliver quite promptly.

 

Don't do 1 unit anymore.... You'r cats gone too low several times... Any time it was under 68 on an Alphatrak it is too low. He earned this reduction 2 weeks ago. I would reduce to 0.5 Unless something changes.

 

Morning PS was 151....just took +1...203.... advise please

 

Should I start new thread or stick with this one ? Is this 203 Elmo's bounce ?

 

Yes it could still be a bounce and could mean that the 0.75u is still too high a dose. I'd get a +2 reading and see if he is dropping and how fast. If he is dropping fast, then give him a small amount of low carb food to try to slow him down and continue to retest to ensure he doesn't go too low again. For now I'd stick with this thread with all the history here but once you know he is safe today, then yes a new thread for any future needs would be best.

 

Thank u ... thank u !!.....will stay with this thread

 

Forgot to mention.....when you start a new thread, you can post over in the Vetsulin/Caninsulin forum where there are more folks familiar with your insulin.

 

Could u define "safe" for me ?

 

Could u define "safe" for me? What should I be watching for today? Good to take BG every hour or every two?

 

With Vetsulin, it starts acting fast and the drop in BG can be dramatic. While the warning number of a potential hypo is 68 on your AT meter, most folks using Vetsulin, set their warning number a little higher, say around 90- 100 as the point when they begin to intervene with food and try to keep kitty above that mumber at all times. In other words, leave yourself a bigger cushion to ensure Elmo doesn't go too low. Normal readings for a cat on the AT meter would be between 70 to 175 but with a cat on insulin, you don't want to be right on the lower border of normal to keep him safe. You can decide whether you are comfortable with 90, 100 or even a little higher if you choose. Where you set that "safe" number is your choice knowing how your cat reacts to insulin but I'd definitely try not to let him go below 90.

 

Many many thanks! U r an answer to prayer ....will be saying special kitty prayers over yours today ❤️

 

+2 145.... computer glitching...will add to SS asap

 

This again is a judgement call based on what readings you have already had. There is no need to test every hour or every 2 hours every day. Try to catch the nadir (lowest reading in a cycle) and with Vetsulin that could be +3 to +5 post shot and then there may be another smaller dip around +7 to +8. Those lowest points in a cycle are different for each cat and can also differ slightly from day to day. A reading at +2 or +3 will often tell you how fast kitty is dropping and determine how much and how often you need to test through the rest of the cycle but if you can't snag a reading then, I'd definitely try for a +4. Every cat is different so it's really a matter of getting to know your own cat not only from a number perspective but also from a behavioural view. If kitty seems to be off, then a quick test may give you a clue as to why or it may just give you peace of mind. While there are guidelines, much of this dance is unique for each of our furballs.

Elmo is starting to drop so get another test at +3 and see where he's at. If he continuing to drop fast, feed a him a small bit of low carb food (a tsp. or so) and then retest at +3.5 or +4 depending on how much he has dropped to see if he is slowing down.

I have to run out for a short bit but will check on you again when I return. If you should need any immediate assistance (which I doubt) then post in Vetsulin with either a "?" or "911" depending on how urgent the matter is and put a link in Health if it's a 911 so you get help right away. I'm just saying all this in case because I don't expect you are going to have a problem.

 

❤️

 

Looks like Elmo is on a nice steady glide rather than a thump today but I'd get another reading at +4 or +5 just to track him on that new dose because he may be bouncing a bit after that low yesterday. Don't be tempted to increase his dose even if he does stay a bit higher today because it will take a couple of days for him to get used to the new dose and it seems clear a whole unit is definitely too much. This is when patience is necessary and you have to let the picture unfold at a slow, steady pace. Easier on both you and kitty too!

 

Happy Halloween Beth!!

Looks like Elmo is doing really well today (so far)!! .....I was really expecting him to bounce a lot higher (like 300+) so he's doing great!

Where are you in SW Mo? I'm in Mid-Mo

 

Again, thank u doesn't quite cover all this wonderful knowledge/help...at +3 BG 121 so gave teaspoon low carb ...at +4 BG 127....should I lower to .5 at pmps or stay at eyeballed .75....getting syringes with half marks ordered thru vet then can order on my own from now on...when should I check BG next ? +6 or +7 ??

 

Thanks to ur midnight hour help !! I saw u r in mid Mo....we live in small town north of Springfield .... born and raised in St Louis but been here 30 years . Again, ur calming help in the early A.M gave me confidence and peace.....thank u, thank u, thank u to u and China

 

My inclination would be to get a +6 and if he is still surfing along nicely maybe a +8. As far as tonight is concerned, I'd wait to see what his PMPS is although because many cats do go lower at night, 0.5u might be a good idea just to be on the safe side especially when he might be bouncing a bit right now and looking higher because of it.

 

+6.5 BG 154....what is considered "surfing nicely? ".....will take a +8 and if I am in doubt will post pmps to decide if we need to go to .5 ...☺️

 

Surfing means his numbers are staying reasonably stable in a reasonably good range without any major ups or downs. Surfing is cause for celebration so grab the wine or chocolate or whatever your indulgence of choice is and enjoy!

 

Latest on Elmo....There was a drop between +8 BG of 183 and +11.5(aka PMPS) of 171...gave .5 ..eyeballed as best I could...any advise on monitoring BGs tonight ....when and how often ??...what to watch for? Ate pretty eagerly and normal amount ....litter box normal as well...being a good sport about the extra BG pokes today...think he wishes I'd get a new hobby

 

The new hobby line gave me a darn good belly laugh! Thank you!

I'd get a +3 reading and see where he's at in relation to the PMPS. I'll be up so I'll check in again then to see where he's at. I think with the 0.5 tonight he should be fine and allow you to get a good night's sleep but these guys can surprise us so let's wait and see what he does.

 

Glad I could give u a belly laugh ...will get +3 read ...thanks ever so much for hanging in here with me today (after Chris and China had taken the night shift ☺️)

 

One of the strong points of this message board is that people are here from all over the world....when the east coasters go to bed, the mid-western folks take over...then the pacific people and then Europe and Australia wakes up!

There's almost always somebody around to help out....or even if they're not comfortable giving specific advice, they'll sit and hold your hand while you worry!

 

It really is an astounding group of dedicated, knowledgeable folks....I find it amazing and comforting ...truly amazing

 

Elmo update...post p.m +3 BG is 158....

 

Should I feed 1 teaspoon food at +4 depending on BG ? Or is +3 158 a safe overnight number after last night's episode ?

 

Would you usually give him a snack at +4? He's not dropping so quickly so it's probably not going to be really necessary (of course he's a cat and it's their mission in life to drive us crazy)

 

Oh wow..just checked ur profile ...so u live in Versailles ! We live in Buffalo! Small world ! Now back to this kitty thing...wanted to see if I needed to test again before bed or is 158 a safe place and just let it be... +4 has been his nadir ..

 

And no I don't usually give +4 snack...did this morning cos numbers were falling...this is my first( and I pray only) hypo rodeo...glad to know he can make it thru DKA and a brush with hypo

 

I'm with Chris on the food. Since he doesn't usually get one, leave a bit of food down for him to eat later if need be. He's not coming down much yet so it looks like it's going to be a quiet cycle. I think you are safe to skip the +4 tonight. I'd probably set an alarm for 3 or 4 hours and snag a test then before the potential second dip. Or alternately test at +4 and if his drop is still a slow one, then call it a night.

 

What would u consider a "slow one " if I test at +4? Guess I was thinking snack to ward off BG drop in the night ...

 

that's why I asked you where you lived the other day....I saw SW Missouri and thought "howdy neighbor"!!

 

If you look back at dates like Oct 5/6, by +2 Elmo had already dropped 90+ points +3 which is a good but quick drop. He's dropped less than 20 so far tonight so while he's heading in the right direction, he is doing it on a gentle slope. Usually the amount of drop at +3 gives a pretty good indication of whether it's going to be an active cycle or not and I don't think Elmo is going to pull any punches tonight.

 

so should I test right now at + 5 then leave a snack down...I think if I put food down he's going to eat it right now...or set alarm for 3-4 hours from now and check BG then ??

 

OR just go to bed ???

 

Well if I were you I'd probably test just because I was still up and then go to bed and not worry about him.

 

Sounds like a plan !

 

Hypo day 2...AMPS..190....when should I take BGs today ?....ate well...

 

He's up a bit this morning so I'd get either a +3 or +4 but you don't need to do both unless of course there is a significant drop that needs tracking and then get another reading a little later in the cycle at +7 or +8. Let Elmo think you found a new hobby today unless he pulls a fast one. I have a feeling Elmo may need 0.75u to get his numbers down just a bit more but I think it's a good idea to back off a bit right now until we are sure he is not bouncing at all from his low the other night.

 

Beth, can I ask you to start a new thread for today in the Vetsulin forum as this one is getting a bit long and Elmo's not threatening any dramatics right now. You can just call it whatever you like and you can put a link to this thread so the history is easily found by anyone offering assistance. We are trying to build a community of Vetsulin users so you can all benefit from each other's support, share experiences and get advice from those most familiar with your insulin. It's a small community right now but growing so when you have an urgent matter it's still a good idea to post in Health as well just to ensure you get some assistance especially when kitty decides to do their dramatics late at night at what might be viewed as "shift change" around here and folks from across the big ponds come on the board.

To put a link to this thread in your new one, copy the URL, then click on the little chain link in the 3rd box of the toolbar at the top of the message text box. This opens a new window where you can paste the URL and click on "Insert". Any problems, just holler.

 

.....Elmo says "thank you, Linda and China"....will post updates as needed..

 

You're welcome Elmo! Menace says "HI and can you get your Mom to put your picture up when she has minute? We'd love to see you!"

 

Absolutely....was wondering ab that...will have my husband help me do this when he gets back...I am not very tech savvy

 

Yes ! Will have hubby help !

 

Duh ! Meant Linda and Menace ....apologies to Menace !

 

No problem. We're all foster parents to each other's kitties around here!

 

Just took +2..98...sorry still on this thread...hubby back in a bit

 

Feed teaspoon food ?

 

Well that little scamp is full of surprises! Yes I would give him a little low carb and then check him again in about 20 -30 minutes to see if he's leveled off or still dropping.

 

Did you check Elmo's BG again? Just want to make sure things are OK!

ETA Oh just checked SS again and see he's holding or up a tidbit. Good stuff! Keep surfing Elmo!

 

Yes....sorry didn't post...ran to grocery to get his current fav FF flavor only to get home and find it's no longer his fav....Snack then test at +3.5...BG 107...

 

Sorry meant +2.5

 

Ahhhh... snack at +2 3/4 then test at + 3 1/4....,

 

So right now you are at about +3.5 post shot? Is that right? So yes, I'd retest now and if he's holding or dropping, give him another little snack to keep him surfing. I'm liking those numbers today.

 

Just now at +4 post shot...took last BG 45 minutes ago...will retest now and post...thanks for checking on us !!

 

+4 BG 113....surfing snack coming up !!!

 

Looks like he took one big drop and now is holding or rising very slowly but in any event it's a lovely surf he's go going. Good thing you gave him the 0.5u this morning because it looks like any more could have had him riding too close for comfort to the bottom of normal range. I think you can take an hour off and check again around +6. He'd definitely keeping you on your toes.

 

Sounds great....he seems like he is feeling especially good last night and today...up moving around more instead of sleeping 24/7....will check at +6 and post

 

+6 BG 143...????....up 30 points in 2 hours

 

It can happen. They're full of surprises, these kitties.

 

Also saw him at +4 after his snack begin to lick something on kitchen floor...was glaze from donut...don't know if he got any of it or not....ahhhhhhhhh !!!!!....at any rate, it's water under the Elmo bridge !!! U got it right when u said he keeps me on my toes !!!

 

Donut glaze could certainly do it.

 

He may come down a bit again later in his cycle. One number is just one number. It's the patterns we need to look at over time. I think Elmo is just not sure what he wants to do and of course the donut glaze would explain a lot too!

 

A question: what carb count qualifies a food as low, medium and high carb ? High= 10 ? But low=?and mid = ?... want to have all on hand ....

 

Also what ketone strips r best ??

 

Any ketone test strips will do fine. I believe a lot of folks use the ones available at Walmart...Relion I think. I'm in Canada and we can't get the Walmart brand thus my guessing on the name.

Any food under 5% I would consider low. Moderate would be 5-10 and anything above 10 is HI. Since Elmo likes the Fancy Feast, the classics are low, the flakes/chunks tend to be medium and the Gravy lover are considered HI. When dealing with a kitty in low numbers, using the gravy off the gravy lover food is a good way to bring numbers up without filling kitty up with too much food.

 

About PM insulin...will be testing in ab hour and a half before feed and shoot...stay at 0.5 or go up 0.75 dependent on BG recorded at PMPS ? Also if husband doesn't help me get new thread established my techy son is coming by tomorrow and with a minimum of eye rolling (I hope) will help me get the new thread and link set up.

 

Also my meter is an AT 2 ....need to change that in signature

 

Your meter name is fine but perhaps just add "meter " after it so every one knows its your glucometer. Tomorrow is fine for a new thread Beth. If hubby and/or son can't help you, I can set it up for you but better if you learn how to do it from your end so people know who is posting and you can get assistance quickly if the need should arise again.

My thinking and habit on this is that I make dose increases on a day cycle when I know I will be up and awake to monitor and deal with things if they should need any intervention on my part. Also many cats go lower at night and you don't want Elmo going below 90. He was almost there today so if I were you, I'd stick with 0.5u tonight and see how that goes. I think you may still be dealing with a bit of fallout from that low the other day so it's better to be patient and let things play out before changing things up. He certainly fooled us today with that higher AMPS and then the drop to 98. Besides I know all too well how tiring those late night PJ parties can be. Had one a few nights ago with Menace and feel like I am still recovering.

 

One last check in for the day ..PMPS was 153..haven't checked since then...was going to check his usual nadir of +4 to see where we r..any thots? ...should I test now at +3 or wait ??

 

+4BG..157......higher than his PMPS of 153....bounce?....check again in hour ??

 

Sorry Beth. Got caught up with an emergency kitty. Elmo is doing great. I think if I were you, I'd stick with 0.5u for another day. And I also think you should go to bed and give yourself and Elmo's ears a breather. He will be fine. If you need peace of mind then set an alarm for around +8 or +9 and retest then but I really think he's good for the night.

 

Oh , Linda, I have been following Brittany and Oliver's thread. My heart and prayers go out to her . I too live in a small town with emergency vet 45 minutes away...have made the drive many times ...so glad she has u and others advising her and praying she is on her way to a good emergency clinic...going to bed now and praying you get to as well...u r an angel !

 

Generally, we consider anything under 10% low carb....11-16% medium carb and above that, high carb.....when I need something high carb for China, I use the Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers (22%)...the "gravy" part is where most of the carbs are and it only takes a little bit to bring her back up to a safe number

 

Brittany is on her way to the vet so at least Oliver made it through the night which was good to hear. I hope he is OK. I live in a huge city and thankfully have an emergency less than 10 minutes away now but it used to be a good 30-45 minute drive for me too. I'm guessing Brittany is pretty rural and vet options are slim. That has to be tough. It also seems her vet is not exactly the brightest when it comes to diabetes. I'm not even convinced Oliver has diabetes from what little we know at this point in time. I hope she gets a better evaluation done today.

Elmo is looking good. I'm liking that lower AMPS this morning. Go Elmo!