Help! Inject or not inject?

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by Zee, Feb 11, 2020 at 3:37 PM.

  1. Zee

    Zee Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2019
    Mum who had a major crisis last week had 2 normal readings today. I njected 4.5 units of Caninsulin at 10 and her reading at around 4.30 pm Uk time was 5.6. Just tested at around 9 - and it was 6.4.
    Do I not inject tonight? Never happened before! I’ve given her some food and might re test later on?

    Suggestions?
     
  2. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
    AMPS ??? (10 am)
    +6.5 5.6 (100.8 mg/dl)

    PMPS 6.4 (115 mg/dl)

    Too low to shoot. Hope you did skip the Caninsulin.

    Dose of 4.5 Units Caninsulin is too high.
     
  3. Zee

    Zee Member

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    Mar 29, 2019
    Haven’t injected but will re test shortly...
     
  4. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Zee likes this.
  5. Zee

    Zee Member

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    Mar 29, 2019
    Have tested after food - still in “normal” range at 9.3 so will no inject....
     
  6. Zee

    Zee Member

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    Mar 29, 2019
    Or should I give a low dose? Say 2 units?
     
  7. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Zee, I don't have any data to base a suggestion on for a dose for your cat Mum.

    I don't even know how you reached the 4.5 U dose your cat is getting currently.
    You vet started the dose at how many units?
    Dose increases were done on what dates?
    How many units were the dose increases?

    Is Mum eating well? Good appetite?

    Finished the antibiotic? Issue resolved?
     
  8. Zee

    Zee Member

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    Mar 29, 2019
    Long story. Mum eating fine. Finished anti biopics. 4-4.5 on vets say so...
     
  9. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
    9.3 (167 mg/dL) is too low to give insulin. I'd skip if Mum were my cat and she has never had ketones.

    I Mum has had ketones or DKA, then you should give some insulin.

    To help us in the future, having a spreadsheet we can look at is an immense help.
    Instructions on how to do that are here. Template that you copy. You do not have to create the spreadsheet from scratch.
    FDMB Spreadsheet Instructions

    What it all means is here. Understanding the Spreadsheet/Grid
     
  10. Zee

    Zee Member

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    Mar 29, 2019
    Mum DID have ketones last week. Just gave 2 units an will keep an eye...
    will have a go at some spreadsheets. Thank you so much for all your help..
     
  11. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
    I see from reviewing your previous post regarding the antibiotics, that Mum did have ketones and was hospitalized for 2 days.

    So she does need some insulin. Caninsulin, 4.5 units is the current dose on vet advice.
    How much is the question.
    I don't know how much.

    Just saw that you give Mum 2 units of Caninsulin.
    You will need to monitor her BG's closely.
    Her BG when you gave her the Caninsulin was 9.3 (167 mg/dL)
    Calling for help.

    @Sienne and Gabby (GA) @Wendy&Neko @Elizabeth and Bertie
     
  12. Zee

    Zee Member

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    Mar 29, 2019
    I’m very grateful! I will keep an eye on her...
     
  13. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
    Caninsulin (aka Vetsulin) is a good in-and-out insulin to be on after your cat was hospitalized for ketones.

    I've never had a cat with ketones, so alerted some other people to come take a look at your thread.
     
  14. Callie & Patches

    Callie & Patches Well-Known Member

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    Jun 18, 2016
    I would run some tests to be sure glucose doesn't drop too low. Caninsulin can hit fast it really scares me. We started our Callie on it and then changed to Prozink.
     
  15. Zee

    Zee Member

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    Mar 29, 2019
    She’s had some more of her raw food so I imagine she’ll be ok.. it is all quite scary...
     
  16. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
    Can you get another test in +1 hour from your dose of insulin?
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2020 at 8:51 PM
  17. Zee

    Zee Member

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    Mar 29, 2019
    No more testing tonight.. she’s hidden under the bed when she thought I was going to test again...
     
  18. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
    Well, I hope she stays safe and her BG levels do not drop too low.
     
  19. Zee

    Zee Member

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    Mar 29, 2019
    Thank you... night.
     
  20. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Senior Member Moderator

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    Feb 28, 2012
    Are you testing her for ketones at home?
     
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  21. Zee

    Zee Member

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    Mar 29, 2019
    Try but hit and miss - short of sitting by the litter tray for hours I find it hard...
     
  22. Diana&Tom

    Diana&Tom Well-Known Member

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    Dec 29, 2009
    Hi Zee
    The dose you're giving does sound on the high side but if you've got there slowly over a period of weeks or months with no ill-effects, I guess it's ok. The worry is that Caninsulin is quite a harsh insulin and takes effect fast, so you most probably wouldn't want to be giving that full dose on a lower than normal pre-shot number. Do you have a hypo kit to hand, just in case?

    It's been said above - if you can possibly set up a spreadsheet to keep a log of bg numbers, it would be easier/safer for people here to give advice on dosing. If you're not technically-minded (like me!) there are people here who can set up a spreadsheet for you in no time at all. Then you just enter whatever numbers you can, and everyone can see at a glance what's normal for Mum and what isn't. You can also use it to show the vet how Mum is responding to the dose and he/she may also suggest adjustments if necessary.

    I know some people here don't want a spreadsheet, for various reasons, but it really is worth the time and effort if you can, for Mum's health and your sanity!

    Good luck :)
     
  23. Zee

    Zee Member

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    Mar 29, 2019
    Hi Diana. Dose isn’t random... was increased over months by vet ... some even think should be 5... hard to know how Mum reacts as varies so much... she was low yesterday and I gave her a low dose (2 units) at around 11 pm... hardly slept for worry... she had some low carbohydrate dry food at night... reading this morning was 27.7!! So back to 4.5...
    She has eaten fine and has done her nails and washed face...
    What an exhausting scenario looking after a diabetic cat...
    Yes please! Can someone do a spread sheet for clueless me?? Do I print it?

    Thank you to everyone!
     
  24. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
    I'll tag @Chris & China (GA) who does spreadsheets for people. Hopefully she will see the tag and contact you. I'll send her a PM also.

    The spreadsheet is a google doc based document.
    Once it is created, you will have on-line access to update it using your google account.

    You will need to set up a Google account.
    Chris can help you with that.

    I've sent her a PM.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2020 at 8:09 AM
    Zee likes this.
  25. Diana&Tom

    Diana&Tom Well-Known Member

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    Dec 29, 2009
    Yes it is exhausting, Zee, very many people here will agree with you on that!
    If the dose has been increased gradually over the months it should be fine, it's just that dosing 4.5u of Caninsulin needs some monitoring if a kitty's response is erratic. Glad to hear that Mum is happy in herself :)

    The people I know of here who are good at spreadsheets are @Chris & China (GA) and @Marje and Gracie - hopefully one of them will see this and help you out. Once they've set it up for you, you just enter the data and link to your signature which you already have. Nothing to print out unless you want to, having the ss as part of your signature means everyone here can see it.
     
    Zee likes this.
  26. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
    There are some tips in this document on how you might catch some urine for testing ketones.
    Urine Testing Tips <<<Click on the blue highlighted text to open the document.
    The crumpled plastic wrap is a good idea to start with.

    Fresh urine is needed to test with the ketone test strips.
    Ketone test strips are available at a chemist/pharmacy/drugstore.
    Look in the diabetes supply area. Ask of you can not find them.

    It will get better. We will help you.:bighug:

    I highly recommend deep breathing exercises to help calm your mind and relieve some of the stress and worry.
     
    SnowKat and Zee like this.
  27. Zee

    Zee Member

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    Mar 29, 2019
    I do have a google account...
     
  28. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
    Having a google account is the first step.
    Do you use a laptop, tablet, smartphone for internet access?
     
  29. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

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    May 10, 2013
    Would be happy to set up a spreadsheet for you! Just click on my name and choose "Start a conversation" so I can get some information I need
     
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  30. Zee

    Zee Member

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    Mar 29, 2019
    Hi Chris. Many thanks. Will take you up on your kind offer tomorrow if I may...
     
  31. Zee

    Zee Member

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    Mar 29, 2019
    Hi. I mostly use my iPad..
     

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