Help. Wilson very low!

Discussion in 'Lantus (Glargine) / Levemir (Detemir)' started by Tanya & Wilson, Feb 21, 2018.

  1. Tanya & Wilson

    Tanya & Wilson Member

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    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/posts/2129579/
    I didn't do PMPS I gave him his usual 2.5 units and he's dopping very low and fast. At +1.5 he was 4.1 and now at +2 he is 3.6 mmol/L. AMPS was 24.4. I gave him high carbs biscuits 1/2 hour ago but he's still dropping. Should I be running for the honey? He's never been this low ever.
     
  2. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    Do you have any higher carb food with gravy? Squeeze a little of the gravy out and give that to Wilson and retest in 30 minutes. He is not at a dangerous level but that is low so early in the cycle in comparison with his other readings. The +1.5 and +2 are actually almost the same so he may be Did you get a PMPS test? I don't see one on the S/S.

    ETA Sorry just noticed that you said you did not do a PS test. PS tests are very important to know if it is safe to shoot, especially with a food change in the works
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2018
  3. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    I see you have done a diet change a few weeks back. Changing to lower carb foods can often decrease the insulin requirements. As well since you are following SLGS you would decrease his dose by 0.25 units for the next shot.
     
  4. Tanya & Wilson

    Tanya & Wilson Member

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    No I didn't get a PMPS. First time I haven't done pre shot test. I have some gravy pouches. Will give him some. I just tested again and he's at 2.5. Really scared now! Might get the honey...
     
  5. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    With a reading of 2.5 ( 45 US) give him some honey and a bit more gravy and retest in 20 minutes. You might also want to change your title add the 911 prefix to get more eyes on this. Keep you spreadhseet updated as you go. :bighug:

    tagging @Bobbie And Bubba to help as weel
     
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  6. Tanya & Wilson

    Tanya & Wilson Member

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    I gave him some honey on his gums. Giving gravy now...
     
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  7. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    Good. So this is about +3 in the cycle?? Retest in 20 minutes,...the honey should have kicked in by then. It will wear off quickly, but the carbs in the gravy should start working by then. You may need to repeat as needed until the numbers are over 3 mmol (54US )and holding. As I said this is early in the cycle so you may need to continue monitoring another 3 hours or so until the numbers are stable and the nadir point (peak effectiveness) has passed....usually between +5-+7
     
  8. Tanya & Wilson

    Tanya & Wilson Member

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    Thank you for being here for me. Freaking out right now. I'll keep testing and feeding.
     
  9. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    Glad you caught this lower number. As others said, it's early in the cycle to be that low. Some gravy, a tsp or 2, don't want to fill him up in case you need to keep steering for a bit.
     
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  10. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for stopping in Bobbie. I am around for a good period of time except for some short periods away from the computer, but it is always good to have another set of eyes on low numbers. :bighug:
     
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  11. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    Tanya keep your SS up to date so it's easier to understand what is going on. You've got this. :bighug:
     
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  12. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    Tanya Do you think you could "stack" the numbers on your spreadsheet...put the +1.5 and +2 and +2.5 all into the +2 box with the appropriate reading time. That will give you more space for additional testingsIf you are able to could you go to the US sheet and manually put in the numbers ...use X 18 of the mmol reading for the US equivalent. This will enable people that don't use the mmol system to understand the readings . Thanks

    ETA when you add anything other than a straight number in the world tab it does not automatically carry over the formula to the US tab
     
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  13. Tanya & Wilson

    Tanya & Wilson Member

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    Yes. I'll keep it up to date. Will test again in 5 minutes. This will be +3. He licked about 1 tsp gravy after the honey.
     
  14. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Are you going to be able to watch him for a couple hours this morning? So glad you caught that drop.
     
  15. LizzieInTexas

    LizzieInTexas Well-Known Member

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    :bighug:

    Breath.

    ETA-feed just gravy (and honey if necessary), you don't want to fill him up in case you have to steer longer.
     
  16. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    The high carb biscuits will help but they take a little longer to kick in.
     
  17. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    You are doing great. You caught the number and are doing everything right. :bighug:
     
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  18. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the spreadsheet update and the US conversion. This will help greatly if others have to come in to help :bighug:
     
  19. Tanya & Wilson

    Tanya & Wilson Member

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    Just tested again. 2.5 +3. Will keep monitoring until I feel he's safe. Even if I am up all night.
     
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  20. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    Give some more honey and gravy and perhaps some biscuits. You can crush the biscuits and add it to the gravy to help it digest faster. With about least 3 hours until nadir you want to get those numbers up.


    ETA You are not in dangerous numbers, but the numbers are too low for so early so trying to get them up higher would be best
     
  21. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    Get some more gravy into him, got to get him up over 50 and stay there for 2 test without having to use gravy to be out of the woods.
     
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  22. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    I really think the change from dry food to raw & LC wet has affected Wilson's insulin requirements. It can sometimes take a week or so before the glucose changes show up with diet change. For your AM shot you definitely need to reduce the dose..how hard it is to bring him up tonight and where the PS test is in the (your)morning (since you are in Australia) will tell how much to reduce.
     
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  23. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    @Tuxedo Mom , I need to step away for about an hour. Will you be okay? I'll pop back in later.
     
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  24. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    No problem Bobbie. I will be around for awhile for sure
     
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  25. Tanya & Wilson

    Tanya & Wilson Member

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    Just gave him another tiny bit of gravy with crushed carb biscuits. Only a few licks worth. Testing again in 15 mins..
     
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  26. Juliet

    Juliet Well-Known Member

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    I was there last night with 2.8 at preshot. Very scary. Can’t help but standing with you. :bighug:
     
  27. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    I would also be giving a little bit of honey as well as long as he is still under 2.8 mmol (50 US) You want the numbers to be at or above this number and holding. With more effects of the Lantus yet to come getting him up higher would be best
     
  28. Tanya & Wilson

    Tanya & Wilson Member

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    Okay. I gave him more honey
     
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  29. Tanya & Wilson

    Tanya & Wilson Member

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    Up a tiny bit. 2.7/+3.5
     
  30. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    At least he is not dropping, but you need to get the numbers up higher. Give some more honey( maybe a little more than you have been), gravy and ground biscuits, but not too much since you will probably need to continue with this for awhile and you want to make sure Wilson will eat


    ETA the honey should bring the numbers up faster, but then will wear off quickly which is when the higher carb gravy and biscuits should be kicking in . Do you have any other sugars, such as pancake syrup or the such?
     
  31. Tanya & Wilson

    Tanya & Wilson Member

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    Yes I have pancake syrup. Is that better than honey? Should I use this as well?
     
  32. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    Next time you need to use sugar try the pancake syrup. The honey is high sugar, but it doesn't seem to be bringing the numbers up fast enough. I use maple syrup for hypos myself ( I am in Canada so very easy to get)


    Have you retested yet?


    ETA Rubbing the honey or syrup on the gums will help it absorb faster than orally feeding
     
  33. Tanya & Wilson

    Tanya & Wilson Member

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    Just retested. He is 3.2+4. Slowly rising at the moment.
     
  34. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    Good...he is holding without further dropping at this time. However the nadir with Lantus is "usually" +5-+7 depending on the kitty so there is still more possibility of dropping for awhile yet. You can hold off with the sugar and give a little more gravy and retest in 30 minutes. How are you holding up...it is late there for you? You are doing a great job!! :bighug:
     
  35. Tanya & Wilson

    Tanya & Wilson Member

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    Just gave some maple syrup and will test again in 30 mins. He seems okay. Even purring when testing. I am trying to keep calm. Heart still pounding. It's 11.35pm here now. Not much sleep for me tonight. To top it all off I have an appointment with my dogs surgeon at 8.30 in the morning. He is recovering from TPLO surgery. (Knee reconsruction). Then off to work. All happening here at the moment with the animals...who needs kids..lol.
     
  36. Juliet

    Juliet Well-Known Member

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    You wanna hold off on the sugar and see if he comes up without it now.
     
  37. Tanya & Wilson

    Tanya & Wilson Member

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    Okay. I won't give him anymore and keep testing.
     
  38. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    Wilson's numbers are in a totally safe range right now. The only concern is that there is still more time that the readings could potential drop, since it is still early in the cycle. If you are totally unable to stay up you can give a good size dose of syrup to try to abort the cycle. If you are able to stay up another few hours then just monitor and give a little gravy if the numbers start to drop. Having a diabetic kitty sure does cut into sleep and life time. ;)

    As far as your morning shot I would either skip or give a greatly reduced dose since you will not be able to monitor tomorrow. The readings should be high from "the bounce" which normally happens after hypoish numbers, but that is to be expected. When it is shot time post a new thread once you have your reading and link this thread to it to get some advice on what dose might be best. With the food change Wilson may end up needing a lot less insulin than before.

    Do another test at +4.5 and post the reading so we see how the numbers are going
     
  39. Juliet

    Juliet Well-Known Member

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    You’re lucky his nadir isn’t at +11 and preshot like Silver. I had to get up in the middle of the night last night. Barely functioning this morning!
     
  40. Tanya & Wilson

    Tanya & Wilson Member

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    I will stay up until he is steady on good numbers. Won't be able to sleep anyway. Okay I will post a thread in the morning with AMPS number.
     
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  41. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    I hear you Juliet!! For the last 3 1/2 years I consider a 5 hour sleep as a good one. My other FD kitty that passed away last year would often keep me up until the wee hours of the morning then I had to give the next shot 3 hours later:rolleyes:
     
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  42. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    When you post (about 1/2 hour before shot time) make sure to include the "?" icon in your title. Something like "Need dosing advice as soon as possible after hypo numbers" or something like that. Also include the link to this posting and mention that you have recently changed from dry to raw & LC wet. That should get some responses quickly
     
  43. Tanya & Wilson

    Tanya & Wilson Member

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    Okay. I'll do that @Tuxedo Mom. He is now on 3.6 +4.5.
     
  44. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    Good!!! He is holding at a safe number. Do not give anything else right now and see where the readings are at +5. You can take down the 911 tag from your title. Wilson seems to be holding okay and I am around for the next whiel If anything changes you can always put it back up.
     
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  45. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    Yeah for that 65 at +4.5. Let's see if he can hold it without any without any gravy/honey for the next test in 30 minutes.
     
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  46. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    Great job Tanya and Mary Ann. I will peak in in another 30 minutes.
     
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  47. Tanya & Wilson

    Tanya & Wilson Member

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    A huge hug and Thank you to everyone who's been by my side tonight. Everyones help and support is very much appreciated. It's great to know people are there for me to help and offer advice. I'd be a total wreck without you all. :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
  48. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    We've all been there and know how very much someone being with us to help guide us as our hearts are pounding are so very appreciated.
     
  49. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    You are doing a great job..you didn't panic ( too much ;)) and knew the basics on dealing with low numbers. My first hypo I was a total wreck!!!! But there is most often someone on who can help you out or 'hold your hand' when this happens.


    ETA One important thing is to make sure you have the '911' icon in your title when an emergency happens to get quick attention on your posting. It can always be removed once you have people helping out.
     
  50. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

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    Just coming on. Yeah for holding steady now. Great job everyone. As far as having a life, heck sugar kitty is my life.
     
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  51. Tanya & Wilson

    Tanya & Wilson Member

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    Looking okay now. In the blue zone with 5.8 +5. Is he safe now? Do I need to keep testing?
     
  52. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    Wonderful!! How long has it been since Wilson had any sugar/gravy/food?
     
  53. Tanya & Wilson

    Tanya & Wilson Member

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    It's been 1 hr since any sugar or food.
     
  54. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    Can you stay up another 1/2 hour for one more test? He should be good, but one more test with the same or a rising number will let you sleep (what little you have left) without worrying.
     
  55. Tanya & Wilson

    Tanya & Wilson Member

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    Yes I was thinking off waiting at least another 1/2 hr. He's snoozing on my lap now. At least someones sleeping...
     
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  56. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    LOL As a parent to an FD kitty, sleep can sometimes be very scarce.

    Just to follow up for your morning...which is already going to be hectic. Try to post about 1/2 hour before shot time..once you have a preshot reading...so there is time for whoever is available to go over the information in order to give good suggestions on what to do for the morning shot dose.
     
  57. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    Looking good! He looks to be out of the woods, I hope you can catch some sleep. Good luck with your dog's appointment. :bighug: And congratulation on the reduction.
     
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  58. Tanya & Wilson

    Tanya & Wilson Member

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    Will do. He has his shot at 7.30 so I will test at 7.00 and post thread straight away. I normally feed about 5 mins before shot and shoot during feed or when he's nearly finished. I have to leave straight after his shot so won't be around to monitor. I will be dropping the dog back home a couple of hours later so can get +2 reading which will be good.
     
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  59. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    That is great. Once a safe dose if decided, getting a +2 will be helpful. With the low numbers and how hard it was to get Wilson back up it is very possible that you may have a very high number for AMPS. However, because of how low he went, how hard it was to bring him up and the recent food change, a reduced dose ( how much to be decided) is in order no matter how high the preshot is. I will try to be around when you post to add in my 2 cents worth, ;)
     
  60. Tanya & Wilson

    Tanya & Wilson Member

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    Thanks. Still slowly rising numbers. He's on 7.6 +5.5. I think I will leave him now. His poor ears must be so sore from all the testing. I have also learned a big lesson tonight. ALWAYS pre shot test. Thank you again for your help.
     
  61. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    Looks good!! Yes..especially with the food change a preshot is VERY important. Hope you have a few hours of good sleep. :bighug:
     
  62. LeeAnn (Lannie)& Freckles

    LeeAnn (Lannie)& Freckles Member

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    Just wanted to say good job. You handled that really well.:cat:
     

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