Help with pancreatis

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by Matt and Goldy, Jul 28, 2016.

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  1. Matt and Goldy

    Matt and Goldy Member

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    Jun 26, 2016
    Hi everyone
    I have had a rough time with goldy for the past month.
    Has anyone dealt with severe pancreatic with their cat while being diagnosed with
    diabetes?
    He is at the vet now for the past 2 days and the doctor wants him til Monday, so
    its cost me over a grand but what scares me is the future
    and has anyone dealt with trying to heal the pancreas while at home?
    He was originally on Novo that didn't seem to be working so the doctor he is at now
    has switched him to vetsulin.
    He is not eating their, but the doctor said he doesn't want to give him food orally
    so his pancreas can heal.
    I can see this is gonna be a long healing process and could really use some advice as to
    whether anyone else went thru this.
    Thanks again
    Matt
     
  2. Callie & Patches

    Callie & Patches Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2016
    I don't know much about pancreatitis, but there are several people on the board that do. Hang on, someone will be here soon. I am so sorry that you and your sweet kitty have to go through this. Please know that many cats on the board have lived good long lives with pancreatitis.
     
  3. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Matt,

    Smokey had pancreatitis in March. Treatment is treating the symptoms. Smokey was never hospitalized, he wasn't to sick though. He remained eating just not much and he was vomiting. He gets cerenia for nausea and Buprenorphine for pain. So far he is still getting them but in lower doses.

    I don't know about withholding food so pancreas can heal. I haven't heard that. Food is needed for insulin especially if using Vetsulin. You might want to ask about Lantus, it is more gentle. Vetsulin is a fast short acting insulin.

    Prayers for Goldy and hope she feels better quickly.
     
  4. Matt and Goldy

    Matt and Goldy Member

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    Jun 26, 2016
    thanks so much for the support and help, yeah its all kinda blown me away he is 11 and was always a real healthy cat...
    Just a fyi since Ive been reading about this now, I was surprised to see where they did a study and found that cats after
    examined (unf after they passed on from old age) had found 45% of them had issues with their pancreas and pancreatic, which
    amazed me. Makes me think that his diabetes has a lot to do with this.
    I could tell he was in pain, something has been up for a while, but lately he would sit in postion front paws out front and just
    like look ing into space with eyes half open almost in a daze. He has been real finicky for a few months with food, and then
    nothing...
    There is a test called a Snap fPL now that helps diagnose a bad case of this.
    I also see that when its seriously bad, they don't feed to let the pancreas rest I guess. (feed externally, with a drip)
    Geez, I can see that finding the right vet, a reasonable one, one that will change insulin, one that wont charge outrageous prices, one
    that will really work with you to administer care at home could be the key between life and death here.
    Your cats are so lucky to have you as parents....it really helps to just know others care about theirs as much as I do...
    really gives me hope, appreciate it!
     
  5. Wulfwin

    Wulfwin Member

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    Nov 4, 2010
    I don't believe with-holding food orally is still current best practice with cats - I could see it for a brief time until anti-nausea/anti-emetic/pain medication takes effect, but I thought the goal was to get the cat eating on it's own again, and providing supportive care until it does (including a feeding tube to the stomach if necessary). I think with-holding food to rest the pancreas is more beneficial in dogs with acute pancreatitis, and even then I thought it was only for 12-24 hours, not 2 days.

    Typically, treatment for pancreatitis involves pain medication, fluids, anti-nausea/anti-emetics, appetite stimulant and possibly assisted feeding (syringe or feeding tube) until the cat is well enough to eat on his own. If there's signs of concurrent infection, antibiotics are also used (my Jason had a bad case last December with a concurrent infection).

    What are they currently doing for your cat for treatment? Are they giving insulin or not? Monitoring blood sugar? Is this a 24 hour clinic? How was the pancreatitis diagnosed?
     
  6. Wulfwin

    Wulfwin Member

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  7. Matt and Goldy

    Matt and Goldy Member

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    Jun 26, 2016
    Thanks Sarah
    I think the not feeding was a temp thing just for yesterday, he was throwing up. Went in to see him yesterday, he lookd good cause he was hookd upd to iv and getting fluids. He was diagnosed with the Snap fpL test plus exam. He is being given pain meds and antibiotics. Monitoring glucose and vetsulin doses at the moment. I believe that he had this going on for a few months and the other vet missed what was happening? Who knows but it would explain how all a sudden over a few months his glucose is super high.
    Your info def helps and I believe it is a 24 hour monitoring vet. They keep me posted and said he wants him their til monday.
     
  8. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

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    Sep 6, 2015
    Matt,

    Sounds like Goldy is feeling a little better and she is home soon.

    Diabetes and pancreatitis go hand and hand as both involve the pancreas. With Smokey my vet didn't think he had it. But he was vomiting and was eating so much less I demanded further tests. He sent us to ER for ultrasound and they send he had it. GI panel confirmed it. With meds he is fine as far as p'titis goes.

    Due to another vets bungling I lost a non diabetic to pancreatitis and hepatic lipidosis. By the time the vet and or office finally got around to answering my calls which turned out to be a traveling vet who said labs were normal and nothing was wrong she had been 12 days of not eating and vomiting. The regular vet called the following day and said go to ER right away. I didn't know about the ER as I had just moved here from out of state. Boy did I raise h*** with them later. I certainly won't go back to that practice.
     
  9. Wulfwin

    Wulfwin Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2010
    Glad to hear that Goldy is feeling better! Fingers crossed everything goes well and he comes home on Monday.

    Unfortunately, the symptoms are pancreatitis are pretty nonspecific so it can be difficult to diagnose. Both of my cats have chronic pancreatitis and were diagnosed during more acute flares (one by ultrasound, the other by the Spec fPL test and symptoms). Now that I know they have it, I realize they've been having symptoms and/or flares for years and I just didn't know what it was. I have to say though that both of my cats are feeling fantastic now that I know what I'm dealing with and treating their chronic pancreatitis (my most recently diagnosed cat Rain in particular is clearly feeling the best she has in years). Only Rain was still on insulin when her pancreatitis was diagnosed, and diagnosing/treating it was a huge turning point for us in her diabetes treatment.

    Make sure to talk to your vet about managing chronic pancreatitis. Both of mine are on regular Cerenia (I'm still experimenting a little with what dosing schedule works best for mine), and I have appetite stimulants, a bag of subQ fluids, and injectable B12 for more acute flare-ups. Neither of mine have flared up to the point of needing pain medication again at this point but if they do, I'll be on the phone with the vet immediately to get that as well. I know some cats do require regular pain medication though.

    What's Goldy eating regularly? With Rain, I could never get her to eat wet food and she was an extremely picky eater until her diagnosis. After her treatment she switched to low carb wet and has been doing great on it (I think she's had chronic nausea for years from the pancreatitis that caused her eating issues).
     
  10. Anitafrnhamer

    Anitafrnhamer Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2013
    Squeaker had frequent pancreatitis. Treatment was: fluid, anti nausea, antacid, pain med if needed, and I found that B12 injections were also very beneficial. We never with held food; that is counter productive. As an aid to entice eating, mix all meat baby food with your cats wet food. Make sure it does not have onion or garlic. If Goldy still won't eat, then you will need to assist feed.
     
  11. Matt and Goldy

    Matt and Goldy Member

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    Jun 26, 2016
    thanks for the help, and sorry you had to go through that with the traveling vet. I used to live south of Houston and there was a traveling vet there also, wondering if it
    was the same one, but I guess there are others. But it was the same with him, he wanted you to email him and by the time he would get out, it was just too late. It definitely
    is an eye opener as to the care you get, and having a plan ready for action when something does go down. Occasionally I have come across vets that will even work with one
    financially to help them out, payment plans etc... There was an awesome vet on the north side of Houston like that. And those ER vets can become super expensive quick..,
    We shouldn't have to chose between our babies and money and it becomes a reality when dealing with diseases. Its not gonna happen as long as I can help it. I was thinking that being able to hook up a drip to a cat would be a good thing to learn how to do also. Also thinking about getting pet insurance too, although one would have to get a
    healthy exam before they would approve insurance, but there are ways...Just a lot to think about...thanks again.
     
  12. Matt and Goldy

    Matt and Goldy Member

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    Jun 26, 2016
    Thanks, I'm so glad yours our doing well. I'm hoping he makes it home, going in there tomm morning to see how he is. I will def ask about managing it. I will check into the Cerenia, and yeah I can see getting the appetite simulants is a good idea. And your bag of subQ fluids, do you basically have that so if you need to hook up a drip you can?
    Or is that for more of a under the skin fluid injection? The B12 also a great idea, is that something you can get off the net or is that from a vet the b 12?
    As far as goldy and eating, it was really strange up to 6 months ago, he ate everything, then it started about 3 months ago where he was getting finicky, stopped eating dry food completely, then went to certain kinds of wet food, one moment it was only Paul Newman liver, then it was meow mix wet tuna, this past week before he stopped completely was fancy feast beef. You said it, extremely picky eater!
    One other symptom that I seemed to see with Goldy is I could occasionally smell like almost rotten food coming from his mouth, thought maybe it was his teeth at one point, but teeth were said to be fine. Now I believe it must be digestive issues with the pancreas and read it somewhere. So anyway that's another thing to look for I guess.
    Thanks again for the support
    Matt
     
  13. Matt and Goldy

    Matt and Goldy Member

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    Jun 26, 2016
    thanks for the help, I am hoping it was a temp thing, will no more tomm, and will mix the baby food too , I had already bought some before he went in. And if I need to assist
    feed may hit you back for how you managed that-greatly appreciative
     
  14. Wulfwin

    Wulfwin Member

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    Nov 4, 2010
    The fluid is for subcutaneous administration (basically running a pocket of fluids under the skin); they'll be absorbed over time. IV fluids will have an effect quicker, but subQ works great and I don't have to worry about flushing out a catheter or making sure the line doesn't kink etc.

    I don't know about the B12 as I get the vast majority of my medications and supplies from the shelter vet clinic I work for since I can get them almost at cost. The label on mine specifically states that it's use is restricted to vets or prescribed by vets, so you might have to get it through your vet.

    Definitely look into the Cerenia for Goldy - it sounds like he might have had some chronic nausea going on as well.

    Another thing you can look into if Goldy's still having eating issues is a probiotic powder called FortiFlora - a lot of cats really love it, and it smells strongly. I have a lot of luck getting very ill/picky cats to eat with that added to/sprinkled on the food (my personal vet has even started using it as an appetite stimulant after I told him about that use).
     
  15. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

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    Sep 6, 2015
    Let us know how Goldy is today when you find out.

    I think Smokey has had problems with it long before I got him. He always had bouts of vomiting and inappropriate box behaviour. His care was very questionable before I got him 2 yrs ago but I've known him for 16 yrs. Just before he started vomiting for me he had horrendous stinky poo and a lot of gas (gas mask worthy). Thought it was the change of food and that's why he was starting to avoid it. It's when he started vomiting immediately after eating I knew it was more serious.

    He now gets cerenia 4mg daily and half dose of Buprenorphine once a day (use to be 0.1ml 3x day). He is doing wonderful with regards to p'titis. Now if I could just get his diabetes better.......

    Hang in there.
     
  16. Matt and Goldy

    Matt and Goldy Member

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    Jun 26, 2016
    Ahhh that's so nice that you took in Smokey 2 years ago at 16. That's a really cool thing to do and take care of him the way you are, I love people that take care of old cats.
    They have so much character I really come to appreciate the older ones...

    Well saw goldy and he is still not eating, they are force feeding him, he looked ok, miserable, but up and about, but just wont eat. Unfortunately, I got some more bad news, the doctor sent out his throwup fearing he might have cancer, and that came back negative but he said it did come back that he is having heart issues, or an enlarged heart. It also came back positive on the pancreatitis. The doctor really didn't go into the heart issue with me at this point. He said he is not giving up and lets give it a few more days, and we will see. I held him in his cage and talked to him and he started purring....

    Soo I will hope and pray for Monday that he is feeling better....
    THANKS again
     
  17. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

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    Sep 6, 2015
    Glad to hear no cancer, that's a relief. Pancreatitis can be managed and it does take quite some time. Sounds like Goldy is having an acute episode where as Smokey I think was a flare up. I'm sure they will discuss the heart with you when he's feeling better.

    Glad he is purring for you. Prayers and healing vines sent.

    BTW- Smokey was my parents cat and was neglected when my mother declined rapidly and my father was denying there were problems.
     
  18. Matt and Goldy

    Matt and Goldy Member

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    Jun 26, 2016
    Yeah that can be extremely tough when a loved one is ill, I went through that with my mother, and father/family as well. I'm sorry. With me, I ended up with 4 of my mothers cats which in the end helped me get through it. Geezuz, Life....
    Anyway, atleast if Smokey is happy there is one thing good that came out of a bad...
    Yeah I appreciate the prayers and thanks again, you've been a big help...truly
    Hey if you don't mind me asking, saw are you from PA when I clicked on your pics of cat, just wondering cause I used to live there a while ago....Pottstown, Pa
     
  19. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

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    Sep 6, 2015
    I'm Jefferson Twp. 12 miles north of Scranton. Most know it by Hamlin / Mt Cobb area. Only been here 6 yrs now. Where are you now?
     
  20. Anitafrnhamer

    Anitafrnhamer Member

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    Jul 9, 2013
    [QUOTE="Matt and Goldy, post: 1738054, member: 15461...
    Unfortunately, I got some more bad news, the doctor sent out his throwup fearing he might have cancer, and that came back negative but he said it did come back that he is having heart issues, or an enlarged heart. It also came back positive on the pancreatitis. The doctor really didn't go into the heart issue with me at this point. He said he is not giving up and lets give it a few more days, and we will see. I held him in his cage and talked to him and he started purring....
    Soo I will hope and pray for Monday that he is feeling better....
    [/QUOT

    Ask your vet to do a ProBNP test. It is a blood test but can rule out HCM. The enlarged heart can be caused by any given number of things, including anemia.
     
  21. Matt and Goldy

    Matt and Goldy Member

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    Jun 26, 2016
    I will definitely ask him to do that, the Pro BNP test...yeah its crazy he has always been a seriously healthy cat...
    thanks for the advice....yeah I'm just hoping he made it through the weekend...just had a bad feeling come over me a couple hours ago
     
  22. Matt and Goldy

    Matt and Goldy Member

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    Jun 26, 2016
    I'm in Georgia currently, but just moved here a few months ago from near Galveston, Tx....I move with work, to military bases, right now at Robins AFB....
    But yeah I know that area for sure, beautiful place, as a matter of fact my friend who still lives in PA, he called me the other night and said, him and his
    wife and kids are going to Knobles in a couple weeks if I wanted to go they are camping up there for the week. I wanted to but have to work :(
    I'm sure you know of that place right? But yeah always love that drive up through Scranton, Ive hiked the appalacian trail up there a lot
    I miss PA.
     
  23. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

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    Sep 6, 2015
    I've heard of it. Never been there though. Work does interfere with life. Any news on Goldy?
     
  24. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

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    Sep 6, 2015
    Any news on Goldy?
     
  25. Matt and Goldy

    Matt and Goldy Member

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    Jun 26, 2016
    Hey wanted to let you all know that got a call from Goldy's doctor here around 11am, and he said he got him to eat
    10 morsels of food, so is hoping he is gonna make it...
    Said he would like to still keep him though....and he is not out of the woods yet but def. promising,
    I will know more tomorrow but atleast he is alive and kicking..
    thanks to all of you
     
    Anitafrnhamer likes this.
  26. Callie & Patches

    Callie & Patches Well-Known Member

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    Jun 18, 2016
    That is such good news. Eat, Goldy, eat. Thanks for the update.
     
  27. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

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    Sep 6, 2015
    Good news. Appy vines sent for Goldy.
     
  28. Matt and Goldy

    Matt and Goldy Member

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    Jun 26, 2016
    Well wanted to give an update to all of you and say thanks again, he still never made it home, (unfortunately) I visited him yesterday and he drank but did not eat from me. Opened 3 cans and he did drink from the can of tuna I gave him. This is just breaking my
    heart, he is up, seems relatively healthy, started purring, but just will not eat except that one time 2 days ago?
    they were only open til noon today, so I missed going in there...
    Along with all the other suggestions,
    has anyone ever heard of Aloe Vera Juice for this? came across several that said
    it helped. It has to be a certain kind, the inner part, NOT the outer leaves....
    atleast that's what they say
     
  29. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

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    Sep 6, 2015
    Are they considering a feeding tube? Hope she starts feeling better very quickly. I don't know about aloe vera. Do a search (link on top) it has been discussed before and I think some have used it.
     
  30. Matt and Goldy

    Matt and Goldy Member

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    Jun 26, 2016
    Currently being force fed....
    will know more tomorrow when I go in there..
    called today and they said he took a few bites
    nothing consistent, but he is alive atleast!
    this is definitely a long recovery and a hard one
    I will try the aloe vera juice and see how it goes
    thanks again
     
  31. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

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    Glad to hear he is at least taking a few bites. How has his blood sugar been?
     
  32. Matt and Goldy

    Matt and Goldy Member

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    Jun 26, 2016
    well its been average 100-400

    but I have to tell you and anyone that might read this today,

    looking for some advice

    I went in there this morning to check on him and take food, tuna etc

    they said that he ate a little, however in the last couple days they said they found

    blood in his urine so the doctor gave him another antibiotic, which they told me

    it seems to have worked, I guess it was now clear...

    they had him back on the pancreatic protocol treatment, which meant

    fluids by iv again...

    she said he chewed out his iv, and so now they had this plastic like horn

    around his head, the kind a small dog would have to stop biting itching himself

    although on him it was pretty big, however I guess it was working somewhat

    But, I have to tell you it seemed like his spirit was dying, he was crying looking

    right at me (this cat is smart, one of the real smart ones if you know what I mean) so

    he knew it was me...and he looked terrible, both legs have been prodded so many

    times, they are completely like black, blood, etc...

    His hind legs were like hairless, bloody (not sure if they razor the hair off their for less chance

    of infection, but they were like soaked almost seemed like blood, but probably just

    urine, diareaha, being poked, etc...

    I mean it was bad, and I am just really wondering is this worth it at this point,

    if he sits in here and ends up dead, I mean this is gonna be his last little time on earth,

    and I just feel like maybe he has had enough?? I mean I want the best for him, but

    geeez it would kill me if this is just a way for them to continue making money, I mean hate

    to think this but this is what they do...and we all know sometimes its not always the best

    care in the world, etc....

    they first said, can we keep him a day or two, which turned into a day or more, which turned into

    through the weekend, then a day or two after the weekend, now its 4 days since the two days after

    the weekend? A week and 3 days...

    I mean its just breaking my heart, I pulled over and started balling...

    I'm balling now...I just need someone elses opinion if you don't mind

    I would greatly appreciate what others would do....
     
  33. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    Dec 2, 2014
    I feel your pain..seeing our furkids in a hospital and not knowing what the end result of the treatment will be makes you wonder if it is the right thing to do. :bighug: :bighug: :bighug:

    But please do not give up. There are a number of members here that have dealt with sickly kitties at home. If you feel you would be able to do this find out everything that would be needed. People here can advise you on giving SubQ fluids. There have been members on here who have had a feeding tube and done the feedings at home.

    Figure out what is needed and what you feel capable of before you lose all hope.

    Prayer and hugs sent for you.
     
  34. tiffmaxee

    tiffmaxee Well-Known Member

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    Nov 15, 2013
  35. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

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    Sep 6, 2015
    I agree with the others. If you think you can do it, home might be best for Goldy. They can insert a feeding until he is eating on his own. He might not be eating because of the stress around him. He will be with you in a familiar place. Meds can be given at home. Maybe your regular vet can do any blood work that is needed. Or maybe there is a vet tech who can make visits to your home for regular assessments. It's something worth considering.
     
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  36. tiffmaxee

    tiffmaxee Well-Known Member

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    Nov 15, 2013
    I would bring him home. Can you give sub-q fluids at home? Usually IV isn't needed more than a few days. He might be refusing food because he is in the hospital nand caged. He might eat for you at home or else you can syringe feed. I did that with my cat for months. Already mentioned is a feeding tube if eating at home doesn't happen.
     
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  37. Matt and Goldy

    Matt and Goldy Member

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    Jun 26, 2016
    Hey everyone, btw sorry about that double line on the last post, I copied it and it pasted like that? Sorry its so spread out...
    Anyway I wanted to let everyone know I went in to the vet today and brought goldy home
    the doctor wasn't there and to be honest I hadn't spoke with him directly since last Saturday?
    I believe he may have been at a conference, so I kinda have been dealing with his techs all week
    in the past few days, since they had put that cone around his neck I saw a real decline, and had to decide here quickly...
    I mean I get that he was pulling out his iv, but that thing makes it really hard for a cat already not eating to eat.
    Soo I said I needed to talk to him, and she got him on the phone, it went well, he said
    he threw everything at him and he just isn't responding much and treating him at home might be a good idea. (thank god)
    So that's where I'm at, he sent him home with a bunch of meds, and I got him to agree with the subcutaneous
    fluids, so I have that big container and we will do the best I can. I don't have anything bad to say about the
    care he got there, I mean truly caring people, even the girl at reception said she would do the same
    thing.
    I'm so appreciative for all of you that have helped me and I'm sure I'm gonna have some questions soon about
    all this care I'm gonna try. I will give it all I got...maybe on the flip side of this I will be able to help
    someone else out..lol
    Anyway he sat on the front seat right beside me, purring away looking at me on the way home, almost seems like he was
    thinking, "I knew he wouldn't forget me"...made it home and he already pee'd and ate a couple bites of tuna...
    thanks again for all the prayers...BLESS YOU ALL!!
     
  38. tiffmaxee

    tiffmaxee Well-Known Member

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    Nov 15, 2013
    Yes! Eating is good. Offer him a little food every hour. If he eats too much at one time it could make him feel yucky. What medications did they send? What are the doses?
     
  39. Matt and Goldy

    Matt and Goldy Member

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    Jun 26, 2016
    Metronidazole 1/2 tab once day
    Azithromycin 1.5mls once day
    clindamycin 1ml twice a day
    also,I posted in another spot about subcutaneous fluids maybe
    you could help too, does that have to be refrigerated? and if it is,
    can you give it cold under the skin?
     
  40. tiffmaxee

    tiffmaxee Well-Known Member

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    Nov 15, 2013
    Don't refrigerate the fluids. In fact many people warm them. Marje made a video on this. I'll give you the link. How much fluids did they save to give? You don't want to give more than 100ml daily.

    Metronizadole is very bitter. I'm betting you don't have empty gel capsules to put it in. Do not put it in the food or he will never eat it again. You can probably get gel caps at a compounding pharmacy and at some health food stores. I buy on line but you need some now. You need size 3 or 4. The larger tge number the smaller the capsule. I'll be back with the link on fluids. Do they put them together for you and show you how to administer?
     
  41. tiffmaxee

    tiffmaxee Well-Known Member

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    Nov 15, 2013
    I just noticed something VERY important. You don't have anything for nausea. You need cerenia pills from the vet for now. It's given once a day.
     
  42. tiffmaxee

    tiffmaxee Well-Known Member

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    Nov 15, 2013
  43. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

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    Sep 6, 2015
    The metro also comes in liquid suspension if it's easier, just make sure they don't enhance with sugar or sweeteners. Smokey does well with the suspension.

    Besides the cerenia for nausea what about Buprenorphine for pain. Did they give you that? For food is Tiki cat available for you? The chicken is just shredded chicken with juice and the nutrients needed. Very low carb (0%). It might help the appetite while providing the nutrients he needs.
     
  44. tiffmaxee

    tiffmaxee Well-Known Member

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    Nov 15, 2013
    ECID. No way can I do liquids with mine. Foams. Liquid everywhere.
     
  45. mariko

    mariko Well-Known Member

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    Jul 10, 2011
    I remember there is some kind of caution when giving fluids to a kitty with a heart issue, so I thought I'd repeat above from his previous post.
    Sorry, I don't know why or I don't know the appropriate amount of fluids that can be given to a kitty with a heart issue.
    Can someone help? @Wendy&Neko @Jill & Alex (GA) @Sienne and Gabby (GA)

    ETA: I mean... unless your vet has already given you an instruction on how much and how often. I hope Goldy is feeling better at home!
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2016
  46. tiffmaxee

    tiffmaxee Well-Known Member

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    Nov 15, 2013
    @mariko is right about fluids. Very important not to give too much. How much did they say to give? If you can get him eating and add water to the food that is better. What is the heart condition? Was an echo done by a cardiologist? It would be good to add this to your signature. I didn't know about the heart.
     
  47. Matt and Goldy

    Matt and Goldy Member

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    Jun 26, 2016
    fluids not much at all 50 ml at a time only when needed
    wants me to use syringe to get water down too
    tiki food, I will look it up is that at Petco?
    I'm gonna head there and look for something I can grind up and force feed if necessary
    yeah they said he doesn't need pain meds at this point cause he supposedly was getting
    better and no throw up meds cause he wasn't vomiting at this point? How do I know if
    he is still in pain though? Or how do they know he is not?
    I can see this is gonna be rough he has lost ALOT of weight, and I'm glad I got him
    out of there because I think he was on the down spiral
    His heart came back with issues when they sent out his throw up to be examined
    for cancer and confirm pancreatitis, it said somewhat of an enlarged heart.

    Anyone have experience force feeding their cat?
     
  48. Larry and Kitties

    Larry and Kitties Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Have you ever give metronidazole as an unflavored suspension? It tastes terrible and most cats foam at the mouth. I put my cat's meds in a gel cap and use a pill gun to administer the gel cap
     
  49. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Smokey doesn't have a problem with it. It's a small amount I squirt in side of his mouth.
     
  50. tiffmaxee

    tiffmaxee Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2013
    There is s yahoo assisted feeding group. Join it. While at Petco get some feeding syringes. To get me started I used Four Paws. The yahoo site will give you places to get more syringes. He needs to eat or could wind up with fatty liver which is very serious. Losing weight quickly can cause it. Pain and/or nausea will make him not want to eat. They didn't even give you a nausea medication which is a must if you want him to eat on his own and keep the food down. Was this all coming from s vet tech since the vet is out of town? That is awful.
     
  51. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    I don't know if Petco has it. Petsmart does NOT carry it. You can also use baby food meat, beechnut and gerber. Make sure no onions or garlic are in it. Can also use kitten food, Authority brand (8%).

    Pancreatitis is painful for most cats, and doesn't go away after a day or two. So I disagree with what you were told. Anyway, Metro will help with some of it. I will look for the pics of meatloaf position for you that indicates pain. Nausea is a little harder to figure out, but usually they want to eat and even start to then walk away because they know they will get sick. If you can try to find a vet who will give you some cerenia.
     
  52. tiffmaxee

    tiffmaxee Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2013
    Max just stops eating. You would never know why. I do from experience. Gerbers 2nd all meat baby food is easy to syringe. Most cats love it. It comes in ham, chicken, beef, and turkey. Tiff wouldn't eat chicken and Nax isn't fond of the turkey so get a fees jars of each and you can return what he doesn't like.
     
  53. Matt and Goldy

    Matt and Goldy Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2016
    got it heading out now
    he just went out in the back yard and is over in his spot
    so I will leave the door open for him to return..
    thanks again
    gonna look for another vet and see about the meds buprenorphine and cerenia plus vit b 12, enzymes, and probiotic
    but I don't need a script for the probiotic I don't think
    weird my brother is on suboxone which is buprenorphine but it has naloxone in it otherwise I would be
    covered for the pain meds....maybe if I get desperate?
    will check back when I return
    thx again
     
  54. tiffmaxee

    tiffmaxee Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2013
    Where abouts do you live? Maybe someone can recommend a vet.
     
  55. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Couldn't find the picture of pain. Will keep looking.
     
  56. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    @Matt and Goldy

    Here's a thought get a few Sheba perfect portion chicken with natural juice. It has juice, smelly and low carb. Even if he just licks the juice it can get him started.
     
  57. Matt and Goldy

    Matt and Goldy Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2016
    great suggestions thanks will do
    is there an over the counter nausea med?
    I'm in Warner Robins Ga, if anyone knows of a GOOD vet
    I know about feeling just unsatisfied with vets
    Had a good one in Houston, but unf this happened after I left
    and NO this came from the doctor, I spoke with him and he was supposedly
    at a vet convention, its all b.s., but told the recept what to give, I had to ask him
    about the subcutec or wouldn't have even gotten that...
    oh and nothing personal but I have found that the women vets are better
    just my opinion
    also one other thing that I never mentioned, its weird, I have noticed with
    him what seems to be a nose issue, like sinus, not that it runs, but just a
    little grunt noise he makes like blowing out air in a mildly stuffed nose
    then occasionally like goes into an open mouth, sneeze or like when a person
    is going to sneeze, happened here today, went on for like a minute, I thought
    he was having an attack, calmed him down and it went away doesn't happen
    often but did notice it today, I don't know thought maybe he just cant smell or taste
    anything anymore?
    He definitely is not eating, those couple of tiny bites were it today
     
  58. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Matt,

    I don't know about OTC nausea meds. A lot a people use pepcid for acid control. The plain one 10mg tab and give 1/4 tab. It might help until you can get cerenia or zofran. His noise, breathing sounds like his heart enlargement issue. You would need a cardiologist and echo to determine that. First you have to get him through this.

    Your in Georgia, it's probably humid and warm. Get the ac on cold. It will help with the breathing somewhat. I was surprised how much a difference it made with Smokey. At times he even just sits in the room the window air is which is the coldest room or smack in front of the portable unit.
     
  59. tiffmaxee

    tiffmaxee Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2013
    Pepcid won't help with this. You need cerenia or Ondansetron, a human drug. I know you don't like the vet and I don't blame you but can you get him to give you either some cerenia pills or a RX for ondansetron? I'm really worried about the large weight loss . I also am concerned about the open mouth breathing which could be coming from the heart issue. That would make fluids a bad idea.
     
  60. Matt and Goldy

    Matt and Goldy Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2016
    yeah I think I know the pain and the meatloaf position, since Ive seen him in that before...
    he is in a half position like that now, and every now and then I see him let out a little cry so I believe he
    is in pain not quite sure though
    the open mouth isn't him breathing but it was more like when an animal say gets water in the nose and kinda
    like snouts and he only did that once so I may have not explained that quite right. He is sleeping on my bed, I just forced some
    gerber ham down, he then licked the tuna once and took 2 licks from a can of fancy feast and he is now sleeping
    on my bed. He looks like he has been through a war...so I'm sure he is in some pain
    Does anyone that has given buprenorphine, know what dosage they gave their cat?
    I did see where they gave him an injection of cerenia on the 29th of july? Does that last a while?
     
  61. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    The dosage for buprenorphine depends on the weight of the cat, and the concentration of the buprenorphine, and is a sliding scale. My Neko weighs 13 lbs, and gets .22ml of bupe twice daily and it's 0.3 mg/ml concentration. She gets it for quite severe arthritis so gets a higher amount. My civie was getting buprenorphine for a pulled crutiate ligament, about the same weight and getting 0.2ml twice a day to start, then tapered down to 0.1 ml. Your vet should have a recommendation on amount and may have given you prefilled syringes. Some cats don't need very much and you'll have to reduce the dose. My civie once got some bupe with a higher concentration (emergency weekend vet) and I didn't notice. He was walking like a drunken sailor.

    I would recommend seeing if you can get to the bottom of the heart issue. If it is indeed an enlarged heart (cardiomyopathy), then no fluids should be given. My Neko had a clean echocardiogram last fall, we started fluids in April for her kidney disease, the she lost her appetite within a few weeks. We had to stop fluids because her heart had gotten enlarged since her previous echo and she had fluids around the heart. Heart issues can also cause lack of appetite and lethargy. I had to syringe feed until her heart medications started making her feel better and the fluids went away. Ondansetron (Zofran) was also like a miracle drug for her in stopping the nausea and making her feel like eating.

    One simple at home thing you can do is measure his resting respiration rate. When he is sleeping, try to count the number of complete breaths (in and out) that he does per minute. You want it to be less than 30 if he's sleeping, Over that, you should let the vet know.
     
  62. tiffmaxee

    tiffmaxee Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2013
    Cerenia only last about 24 hours. I use ondansetron when Max's chronic pancreatitis acts up. I suggested you get cerenia because it's a vet medication so they gave it. Since tgey gave him some I think you can probably get them to sell you some. I haves used it and prefer the pills because the injections sting. Some cats do better with cerenia, some with ondansetron, and some with both. The article I directed you to mentions both of these drugs. Goody probably won't eat on his own until the nausea is controlled. Max has been on ondansetron for months at a time.
     
  63. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    My Smokey Buprenorphine was started at 0.1ml (0.5mg per ml) every 8-12 hrs. The 12 hrs was to plong so went to every eight hours. That remained for many weeks. Every week I would try the 12 hrs but he still needed it more often. He now gets 0.05ml. Once a day and is doing fine. And I can give more if he needs it.

    Cerenia is only good for 24 hrs. Smokey has been on it daily since March.
     
  64. Matt and Goldy

    Matt and Goldy Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2016
    hey everyone
    I lookd up the drugs this guy sent him home with goldy, and its 3 antibiotics, 2 have nothing to do with pancreas, or gi, and one of those has pancreatitis as a side effect? 2 are for skin infections? I guess because he has like a serious rash on his back legs, into his stomach area, prob from sitting in that cage. plus, No pain killers, no upset stomach med, what I thought was good care is turning out to be a wasted week and money it seems. I don't think I am even going to give him these 2 antibiotics for skin infections. I'm gonna try to keep him alive to go to another vet in the area and see what there protocol is for treating him at home...
    Just wanted to say I have really appreciated all your help, and support through this, it really means ALOT
    he made it through the night, still not eating, but I have seen him drink so that's a good thing, I am forcing the gerber food, he hates it.
    to be honest I wouldn't be surprised if this heart issue is causing a lot of this
     
  65. Matt and Goldy

    Matt and Goldy Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2016
    sorry I'm losing it, I am trying to take all the suggestions in, I am force feeding him more
    cause I think I was seriously under force feeding him
    does anyone know how much and how often..
    I will hold on giving him to many fluids...
     
  66. Alexi

    Alexi Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2016
    :bighug:
    I have never dealt with pancreatitis, but I have had to force feed a cat and know how upsetting it can be. All I can suggest is little and often. I hope some experienced members can help you through this. What I did find for you was the link to vet interview topics for when you check out different vets. http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/vet-interview-topics.156663/
     
  67. tiffmaxee

    tiffmaxee Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2013
    Matt, the best thing you can do is get some cerenia or ondansetron. If nauseous he won't eat. Once Max was on the right dose he ate enough. He needs to eat at least 3/4 of what he was eating before he stopped. There are appetite stimulants but you don't want to give them if nauseous.
     
  68. MsBliss

    MsBliss Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2012
    With holding food for feline pancreatitis is not good medicine. For cats, this can be very dangerous. Kitty needs Cerenia, pepcid, fluids, and bland food, like baby food Beechnut chicken or turkey, and pain managment, like buprenorphine. You can give Cerenia by injection at home, pepcid too, if they are not taking meds orally. I ordered Cerenia injection from Allivet, and got the pills at Costco for a decent price. Pepcid injectable can be tricky, but some pharmacies will order it for you. If not, just stick with the oral version of these. If you can do subcutaneous fluids at home, that is very helpful too.

    If doing the homecare is too much, and kitty is staying in hospital, MAKE SURE THEY ARE PRESENTING BLAND FOOD AND GIVING PAIN CONTROL LIKE BUPRENORPHINE, along with Cerenia and pepcid. Without pain management, it is difficult to get better.
     
  69. MsBliss

    MsBliss Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2012
    Also, no probiotics for now. Probiotics seem to make pancreatitis less likely to resolve. You can give probiotics after he is completely resolved.
     
  70. Wulfwin

    Wulfwin Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2010
    Haven't been around much this past week, but I wanted to pop in and second (third? fourth?) the buprenorphrine and cerenia/ondansetron. When Jason had his acute pancreatitis flare back in December, the ER vet didn't give him pain medication (even though they're the ones that diagnosed the pancreatitis!) - it wasn't til 2 days later when I was checking with a vet that I work with about giving more Cerenia that he told me I should absolutely give bupe (I didn't know anything about pancreatitis at the time). The pain medication was the biggest turnaround for Jason and his appetite/attitude, and I could tell exactly when it wore off (I actually had the extended release that lasts 3 days) and that he needed another dose.

    I'd also suggest getting B12 injectable - whenever Jason's had a flare, that really does seem to help.

    Food-wise, you can also look into science diet A/D - it's a calorie rich, really tasty canned food. You'll probably have to get it from a vet or get a prescription for it. If you do have to do syringe feedings, it's very mushy to start with and is very easy to syringe feed with after adding a little water.

    One other thing regarding probiotics - FortiFlora (a cat probiotic) can actually work really well to help stimulate appetite. It's really stinky most cats love the taste. I've had really good luck with using it for sick cats to help stimulate them to eat (my personal vet actually now uses it this way as well after I told him about it). I don't use the whole packet, I just sprinkle a little on top of the food. It's something to keep in mind if you continue to have problems getting Goldy to eat.
     
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