Hi from me and Molly, any advice please

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by Sue Hammond, Oct 4, 2017.

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  1. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Nope, the smallest increment marked on the syringe is .5 of a unit. But it is quite easy to 'eyeball' a .25 of a unit, or even smaller increments. ...There is a photo of small doses somewhere, I'll try to find that for you.

    Another advantage of syringes is that you can make a dose 'fatter' or 'skinnier'. Using syringes means you can shave a bit of a unit if necessary, or make a unit 'fatter'. There is very much more flexibility than there is with the Vetpen.

    If a kitty needs small doses it's also worth considering using syringes made for U100 insulin (rather than those made for U40 insulin); but these have to be used in conjunction with our 'conversion chart' so that you know how much to draw up into the syringe to get the dose that you want.
    U100 syringes can make it a lot easier to measure very small doses. But you would need to be comfortable using the conversion chart.
     
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  2. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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  3. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    I can't see well enough to draw up .25, so I guess I'll have to stick with the pen
     
  4. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Here's the photo of some small doses using syringes with .5 unit markings. 0.25 and 0.75 doses are shown here.
    Note: These are shown in U100 not U40 syringes, but the method is exactly the same.
    .

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    .
     
  5. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    I typically measure 0.1 of a unit these days, and my close vision is pretty poor. But if I hold the syringe against a light source I can see it sufficiently well. And some folks use a magnifying glass to see the syringe (but it's still better with a light source behind it.)
    .
     
  6. Diana&Tom

    Diana&Tom Well-Known Member

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    I'd get some high-strength reading glasses from supermarkets etc - you don't then have to hold a magnifying glass (and they are handy for plenty of other things too!)
     
  7. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    I have a free-standing one that I use for craft work. It has a multitude of uses, haha!
    .
     
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  8. Diana&Tom

    Diana&Tom Well-Known Member

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    The number of uses increases all the time... I once remarked that it was great for helping to read the back of a shampoo bottle... the question was WHY did I want to read the back of a shampoo bottle..!!!
     
  9. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    I have prescription reading glasses already, I don't feel comfortable using the syringes really..
     
  10. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    I'm just terrified of giving to much, the pen does it for me, so no guessing x
     
  11. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Sue, do whatever you feel most comfortable with. :bighug:
    Some people do prefer to stick with the Vetpen.
    If, in the future, it looks like Molly might need doses of insulin lower than .5 of a unit you can always reconsider the syringes.
    .
     
  12. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    @Sue Hammond

    Sue, is it possible you can get some tests after the evening insulin shot?
    Molly has had lower morning pre-shots the last couple of days, and that was a big jump up this morning at +3.... ....I'm wondering if she's dropping lower at night, and then bouncing....
    .
     
  13. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    Only if I stay up until gone midnight, I usually go to bed around 10.30
     
  14. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    I have done tests before in the early hours, as you can see on the spreadsheet, but haven't lately
     
  15. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    11.7 bg was the lowest recorded test she's had overnight, she's not low every morning sometimes it's really high
     
  16. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Because of that 24.1 jump at +3 I'm wondering if she could have dropped low during the night at some point and be bouncing from that.
    It may not be the case, but it is a possiblity. Some cats do drop lower at night.
    .
     
  17. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    I don't know what to do Elizabeth, I really don't
     
  18. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    I can't get it right at all, and with this bouncing up and down it's not doing Molly any good at all...
     
  19. Diana&Tom

    Diana&Tom Well-Known Member

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    Sue, I think you just have to accept that Molly's ups and downs are not unusual or abnormal, if you look at other people's threads you will see very similar stories. It's not easy, we all know that, but it's a matter of doing the best you can... sometimes dosing is pure guesswork, trial and error, until you hit on a dose that seems to "suit" her... but even then, her insulin requirements may vary from day to day over a period of time. Not all FD cats get regulated by any means - that's why this board exists! Try to stay positive and just carry on as you are... you may have heard us say here that FD is a marathon not a sprint, ie unless you are very lucky it could take a while to get Molly into better, more stable numbers. You are actually quite early on in your FD journey so don't despair - you may just have to be prepared for it to take longer than you'd like. Unfortunately there is no quick fix and FD is often for life, but with dedication, patience and love a kitty can live out a normal lifespan. Have you seen Elizabeth's post about her Bertie? A heartwarming story if ever there was one!
     
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  20. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    I haven't Diana, but I'll try and find it....The vet told me it can take up to 6 months to stabilise FD....it's just I've still no idea how much I should really give Molly, I'm so scared if giving too much, especially at night when I can't watch her
     
  21. Diana&Tom

    Diana&Tom Well-Known Member

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    I know... just err on the side of caution, especially at night. The important thing is that Molly is getting insulin, which she had been without before she was dx, so in that respect she is better off already. Softly softly catchee monkey and all that...
     
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  22. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    Should I carry on with 1u, or reduce to 0.5
     
  23. Diana&Tom

    Diana&Tom Well-Known Member

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    @Elizabeth and Bertie what would you suggest?
     
  24. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    I've given her 1u at night for the last 8 nights, but her amps has ranged between 5.4 at the lowest, to 24.9 the highest, so I don't know what to give for the best to keep her well...
     
  25. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    I would say, let's see what the pre-shot number is, and see how the numbers are trending. It's (usually) important to give insulin on a rising number.
    .
     
  26. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    Pre shot was 19.5, so she had 1u
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2017
  27. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    Same dose last last night, yet her bg this morning is 21.4, same low carb Mac's diet, same routine, yet such a difference in morning results...I'm sorry to keep bugging you with all this, but something isn't right here surely,
     
  28. Diana&Tom

    Diana&Tom Well-Known Member

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    I do sympathise Sue, you certainly have a real rainbow of colours on your spreadsheet and it is hard to work out what's going on. It could be a mixture of some pancreatic activity and bouncing - either on its own would confuse the picture but the two together (IF that's the case, a pure guess) is making it very difficult to suggest a single regular dose. I would be inclined to show the spreadsheet to your vet and see if they have anything to say... I know a lot of vets aren't very clued up but it might be worth asking. Otherwise, you might just have to plod on and hope that things start to even out soon... remember, the vet said it could take months to achieve regulation. It's nothing you're doing wrong, but FD is a complex disease with lots of variables so you just have to hang in there really. I know it's a shock to the system as it is to everyone who comes here, but eventually we realise that there's no quick fix and sort of build our lives around kitty's routine.

    Maybe someone else will comment on dosing.
     
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  29. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    I showed him, and he said carry on with 2u or 1 if she hasn't eaten, so I don't tend not to take his advice on that one...even the nurse said if her number is low provided she's had a meal, still give her 2u, no way that in my opinion, is dangerous
     
  30. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Can you get ProZinc or lantus where you are?
     
  31. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    He won't prescribe it Janet, he said to carrying with Caninsulin
     
  32. Diana&Tom

    Diana&Tom Well-Known Member

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    What do they say though about the extreme fluctuating numbers?
     
  33. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    I know he didn't want to perscribe ProZinc, but I wonder why not lantus? Add long as the client is willing to for the cost it's industry known as an effective insulin. Frustrating.

    Well I see it as you can keep doing what you're doing with 1 unit, or up it to 1.5 and just be consistent about testing for when she dips every few days as she tends to do so you can steer it up. 2 I think it's too much. For days you might not be able to test go more conservative. Your third option, but certainly not covienient, is to do three smaller doses (.5-1) 8 hours apart.
     
  34. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    He said it's not unusual at this early stage, and that was it...No real input whatsoever
     
  35. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    Thanks for your advice, I'll carry on with 1u for now then, I can't really do every 8 hours x
     
  36. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    @Sue Hammond

    Sue, is there any chance of your giving the shots an hour or so earlier so that you have time to get a test after the evening shot?
    I do think there is a possibility that Molly could be dropping lower during the night on occasion, and it would be useful to be able to rule that out. (Quite a few folks give the shot earlier in the evening and then grab a 'before bed' test last thing. That test can often provide some really useful info...)
    .
     
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  37. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Janet, vets in the UK vary enormously in their willingness (or otherwise) to prescribe alternative insulins. It seems to be something of a lottery depending on the individual vet. Even within the same practice the vets can have different views about prescribing... :confused:
    .
     
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  38. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    I did get after pm shot tests, but just lately I've been going to bed early, around 10.30,also I thought the shots had to be 12 hours apart
     
  39. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    I can d
    Most of her night tests were significantly lower, one time I was up until about 4am testing.
     
  40. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    I gathered that was the case. Just seems to me that if one type wasn’t ideally working they would consider an alternative. This vet seems pretty rigid in his opinion.
     
  41. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    Sorry to bother you all again, Molly's bg test last night was 20.9 and +2 was 19.8... this morning amps is 10.7, only gave .5 u, and now +2 its risen to 20.2....This is stressing me out so so much,
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2017
  42. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    I gave .5u
     
  43. Sue484

    Sue484 Well-Known Member

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    How true that is. Frankie was diabetic for over a year before my vet relented and referred me to the RVC where they eventually prescribed Lantus, (although the dosing they told me was all wrong!) This was before ProZinc was licensed in the UK. I kept bugging my vet to put Rom on Lantus but she said no, then one time said as ProZinc was now licensed to try that. I used one vial and as my cats need a check up each time insulin is prescribed I took him in and saw a different vet, who immediately said that he had no problem prescribing Lantus which he did there and then as he could see from my spreadsheet how well Frankie was doing on it and how much I knew about treating FD. Rom was recently only on one drop of insulin and then unfortunately got an abcess in his cheek and had to be admitted. I showed my vet how to dose one drop, and she admitted that the whole practice is now aware of how well they are doing on Lantus and my spreadsheet and everyone is really impressed with how I am treating them. I only got to this point due to the people on this forum so all credit should go to them.. They really do know their stuff. It does take a while though, so be patient. Have a look at Frankie and Rom's spreadsheets going back to 2014 and 2015 and see how far they have come, bearing in mind they both only started being regulated last year.
     
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  44. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Ok so next time you have a preshot like that and you are home to test try 1 unit. But test again at +4 today and see what you get.
     
  45. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    + 4 was 20.3
     
  46. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    Well I've had a phone conversation with my vet, and he isn't going to prescribe prozinc yet..but he hasn't ruled it out.He's also suggested trying a different bg monitor, one that means a very small needle under the skin, and a monitor that just scans over where the needle is...He seems to think she's getting so stressed with all the poking of needles it's raising her bg results significantly., And she is a very stressful cat.as soon as she sees me with the ear pricker she runs and hides..Here's the link to that particular monitor
    https://www.freestylelibre.co.uk/libre/products.html
     
  47. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    @Sue Hammond

    Sue, a couple of observations...

    You're getting a few low preshot numbers. That can happen happen for a number of reasons. But with Caninsulin common reasons are:
    1. Insulin dose too high (causing longer cycles; or causing fluctuating numbers due to bouncing).
    2. Longer than average duration with Caninsulin (so the number is still dropping late on in the cycle).
    3. The pancreas is doing some work and is able to put out some insulin sometimes to reduce the blood glucose.

    As it is, we don't know the reason. But as you gather more data things should hopefully become clearer.

    I can't see any evidence on your SS to show that is happening. If the test was stressing her enough to raise her BG you'd expect to see a rise after each preshot test. But - to my eyes at least - that doesn't seem to be evident in the data you've collected so far....

    Since you are finding this whole thing stressful yourself though it could well be that Molly is picking up on your stress, and that may be making testing a bit harder for you both. The more relaxed and casual we are about testing the more relaxed our kitties are likely to be. So, maybe take some deep breaths and get nicely settled before doing a test. (We have one member here who sings to her cat during testing!)

    And be sure to do some things that make you feel good. (Chocolate, bubble baths, and wine are traditional favourites on FDMB.... ;)).
    And do remind yourself that you are doing really well. You've learned to hometest, and you've set up Molly's SS and are collecting data. That's great!
    Things will get easier in time. But it does take patience....

    Regarding the freestylelibre system, there aren't yet many kitties using it, but you may find that this thread (from 2016) has some useful info to think about.
    New glucose meter that does not require the blood drop

    Eliz
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2017
  48. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    Thanks @Elizabeth and Bertie , I've had a read, and that one doesn't seem to be that accurate either...Why is her bg going from 10.7 to 20.1 in two hours, and still rising to 20.3 at +4, shouldn't it surely be coming down instead of rising so steeply so quickly, it must be making Molly feel pretty rough wouldn't it...I'm so sorry to be such a pain, but this is all doing my head in, it really is x
     
  49. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    I don't want to get to excited, I know how quick things can change, but today has been a very good day, have a look at Molly's spreadsheet, the first night with no Insulin xx
     
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  50. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Great. I would test though and if it’s going up give a small dose or the morning is going to be very high again. ESP with a human meter an 8.9 is low but still above normal.
     
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  51. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    I did another test at 11pm and it was lower at 8.3, so still didn't give any....this morning up to 20.1, which is what it normally is after having a pm shot the previous evening...I expected it to be higher to be honest
     
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  52. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Wow! That was a really lovely run of blue numbers, Sue. Very nice indeed....
    .
     
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  53. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    It was good while it lasted now it's 19 at +3 so back to square one again, I don't understand why it keeps doing this, one day it's pretty good, the next it's really high again..even my Vet doesn't seem to know or offer any kind of explanation, I'm still so confused with it all
     
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  54. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Don't worry. It's very 'early days'. :bighug:

    With Caninsulin, when you get a low number at the end of an insulin cycle - or get a lovely run of nice numbers like you saw yesterday - it's most often (though not always) because the cat's body is putting out some insulin of its own at times. ...But in the beginning it may be that the pancreas can only do this for short periods of time. When it stops producing insulin the blood glucose rises again.
    .
     
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  55. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    That makes a lot of sense, thank you
     
  56. Diana&Tom

    Diana&Tom Well-Known Member

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    Well, as you know, Monica is going through the same frustrations but has decided to go with the flow and posted a little poem about it just now:

    Boo for red and yay for blue
    The cat is happy so I should be too!

    Worth remembering!
     
  57. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    That's great, I will remember that xx
     
  58. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    How long should insulin cartridges be kept for once started to use,I read somewhere 28 days, but this seems such a waste
     
  59. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Depending on the country where the product is bought, the product label may say the insulin should be discarded 21, 28 or 42 days after first opening.
    Caninsulin (Vetsulin) was tested by the manufacturer in USA for 42 days after first use. But some countries' regulatory authorities do not allow product labels that permit the use of sterile products for more than 21 or 28 days after first opening.

    Many FDMB members use the insulin for longer than is suggested.
    Since you are home testing, you may see increased BG levels in your cat if the insulin is losing potency.
    If there are white ‘floaties’ in the insulin, it needs to be replaced.

    Eliz
     
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  60. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    After a relatively good day n the blues yesterday and not needing her pm shot, it's now gone back up in the pinks again 1.5u given this morning just like yesterday, +3 19bg. +6 20.3bg, whereas yesterday her +3 was 6.2, only rising to 8.9 pm preshot....I really don't think I can take much more if these fluctuations, I'm so stressed out, I think I'm going to snap...I just feel like crying poor Molly seems so happy in herself though,her coat has improved (no more dandruff) she's eating normally although she was before all this started, she's not constantly looking for water, she's weeing and pooing normally, should I stick to 1.5u unless she's low..Many thanks xx
     
  61. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    I'm always seeing increased bg levels, so I really wouldn't even notice a problem with the insulin,.... I've just checked the box and it says 28 days, what a waste
     
  62. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Sue, it only says '28 days' because that's what the UK authorities decided to put on the box. In the USA it would say '42 days'.... Nobody is policing your fridge to see how long you're keeping the insulin for.... ;)
    ...And some USA folks use it for longer than 42 days....
     
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  63. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    But if you suddenly saw a lot of red numbers, or went days and days without seeing a blue number, that might indicate that the insulin was sparking out.
    .
     
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  64. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    It lasts longer then that. My vetsulin always lasts 3-4 months... But I'll get a new one at 3 months just to be sure.
     
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  65. Monica & Josie

    Monica & Josie Member

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    On the Facebook page of Cats with Pancreatitis someone commented on my confused and concerned post saying they received the best piece of advice ever from a cat specialist in Boston when they were so desperate and constantly concerned about their cat's fluctuating numbers.
    The specialist asked them if the cat was healthy looking, eating well, playful and generally happy. They said yes. Then he said:
    'In that case treat the symptoms and not the numbers'

    We should look at the cat and not the numbers.
    Sometimes even I have to remind myself this as just like you I can get carried away with obsessing over the odd numbers that make no sense whatsoever.
    You can do your best with the insulin and diet but the rest is beyond our control. Sometimes how our kitties respond is just not as straightforward as they describe it in the Feline Diabetes User Manual and might not ever be. I have accepted this now and am prepared for whatever challenge she will surprise me with:)
    Josie is happy and healthy looking, we agree with my husband that if we weren't looking at her spreadsheet we would say that she is well regulated, healthy and there is nothing wrong with her.
    And she was diagnosed with Chronic Pancreatitis as well! Yet still she's looking the healthiest fluffiest and sweetest she's ever been since her diabetes started back in April.

    So please try to give yourself a break, cherish and embrace that Molly is looking well, her numbers often hit the blues and might do it more and more often as time goes on.
    Anything can happen in this crazy rollercoaster journey but we got to try to keep our sanity and cannot let some numbers take over our lives!:banghead:

    As for how long should keep insulin, when I asked my vet the same thing she said that she uses the bottles for 3-4 months herself as the 28 days written on the label is just a cautious general manufacturers advice they had to come up with when they first launched insulin and had to put something on the label..
     
  66. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    I think that is very good advice Monica, those jumping numbers are driving me crazy, but Molly doesn't seem to have a care in the world...Who knows just how long she had been diabetic before we noticed the tell tale signs.

    She looks happy, her coat is now free of dandruff, (tell tale sign of diabetes, which I didn't know), she's eating normally, but then she was before diagnosis, she's not constantly looking for water anymore, weeing like normal, everything on the outside is good, it's just those damn bouncing numbers...I will try to do the same, and not live my life around the numbers, but it's so hard..

    My Vet said exactly the same, look at the cat, not the numbers, the clinical signs he said are good and have improved, so I guess something is going in the right direction xx
     
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  67. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    We're having another day in the blues and yellows, it seems to be every other day is good at the moment x
     
  68. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Yes, very nice. :cat:
    .
     
  69. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    Molly's pmps is 11.8, am I right in thinking I should just give her .5 tonight? Thanks xx
     
  70. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    I gave .5, hoping I did right
     
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  71. Monica & Josie

    Monica & Josie Member

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    Hi Sue,
    I saw your post earlier but as can’t really give dosage advice I was waiting for the others to get back to you. Still not sure if it’s right or not but I probably would’ve done the same when unsure.. Then again I’ve always been on the cautious side of dosing!
     
  72. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    I hope I did right, but I'm going to stay up a while and do a blood test later x
     
  73. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    She's still doing those high and low days, so trying to adjust her doses accordingly xx
     
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  74. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Sounds good
     
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  75. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    .5u wasn't enough of a dose as her bg at +3 (midnight) was 19.1, but I was afraid to give to much at night
     
  76. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    In the circumstances I think .5 was the right call; especially since this was the PM shot, and you wouldn't have the same ability to test as in the daytime. :bighug:

    The pattern looks much like what happened on the morning of 15th Oct.
    ...I'm wondering if Molly is getting little bounces when she drops into blue numbers. It can happen...
    .
     
  77. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    Morning Elizabeth, do you mean she could be making her own insulin x
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2017
  78. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    Oct 4, 2017
    Evening everyone, well Molly's at it again, very high pre shot tests, and has remained high all day, so I've upped the evening shot to 1.5u, just hope I did the right thing...I still have no idea why one day it's in the blues and yellows during the day, and the next day it's in the pinks and reds
     
  79. Monica & Josie

    Monica & Josie Member

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    Apr 16, 2017
    Hi Sue, that is an odd pattern indeed! I’m sorry I can’t offer you much help regarding dosage, hopefully the others will be able to advise you soon.
    We used to have these days whilst on Caninsulin when numbers didn’t go down at all throughout the day:banghead:
    The most sensible explanation what they usually say is that it could’ve been a fur shot but I was never really convinced it was as it happened quite often and we always felt the needle going in all ok. I remember it always bugged me why this happened but I could never figure out the real reason..
    Hang in there! :bighug:
     
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  80. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    Oct 4, 2017
    I can definitely say it's not fur shots, but Molly has a habit of doing this, she's a little minx lol xx
     
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  81. Diana&Tom

    Diana&Tom Well-Known Member

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    Dec 29, 2009
    I think as we have suggested before it's more likely to be a combination of sputtering pancreas and possibly some bounce... all you can do really is keep varying the dose according to bg and hope numbers settle into more of a pattern in time. If as her body heals she starts producing her own insulin on a more regular basis, you'd be getting a lot more blues even at ps, but for now this is a process that you just have to go through.
     
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  82. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    Oct 4, 2017
    It's even higher this morning 25.4, I just worry that these really high numbers are going to make her very ill
     
  83. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    Oct 4, 2017
    Hi everyone, just very bewildered here.. As you will see on Molly's spreadsheet, she had amps of 23.9.. + 3 was 19.3, and now +6 is 26.4... She looks on the outside perfectly ok, and no different to any other day... But this is the highest +6 bg we've had since she started insulin 64 days ago... I'm at a loss as to what's going on.. also this test was almost 3 hours after food ... Any advice please, thank you x
     
  84. Monica & Josie

    Monica & Josie Member

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    Apr 16, 2017
    Hi Sue, I would start a separate thread on the main forum, also you might want to post one on the Caninsulin forum, this way you might get more eyes and hopefully more response..
    Again you are not on your own -
    Josie still has very high ps numbers and no matter how much we increased the dosage so far they are not going any lower so we have our own mind boggling case to crack...:banghead:
     
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  85. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    Oct 4, 2017
    Is that in this forum, but just a seperate thread? Xx
     
  86. Monica & Josie

    Monica & Josie Member

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    Apr 16, 2017
    I’m sorry I’m on my phone and not sure how to find on the small screen where you posted this thread.. if you click on Forums it will show you both, Caninsulin one is somewhere at the bottom of forums page..
     
  87. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    Oct 4, 2017
    I posted in Feline health (the main forum)
     
  88. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Sep 6, 2010
    Hi Sue, I can't find a new thread (sorry if I'm being a bit dim....) To start a new thread you go to the main forum and then click on the 'post new thread' tab in the top right hand corner of the page.

    Meanwhile, yes...the last couple of days do seem quite different for Molly...
    It looks to me as though the effect of the insulin is less and that the duration is shorter. Things to think about;

    Is the insulin OK? Does it have any little white specks in it?
    Do you have control solution to do a test with? Or could you test yourself (or another willing volunteer) to see if the reading looks normal?

    Have you started new test strips?

    Have you fed anything different over the last couple few days?

    Is Molly peeing and pooping OK?
    Any issues such as furballs..?

    .
     
  89. Monica & Josie

    Monica & Josie Member

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    Apr 16, 2017
    Ok post one on the Caninsulin forum as well if you can, someone might have something to add from their own experience.. xx
     
  90. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    Oct 4, 2017
    I haven't posted on a new thread, I've just continued with this one...The insulin has no white bits in it, looks absolutely fine to me, it's been in use for 3 weeks....What do you mean by control solutions and testing on our self...No the test strips are from the same box as last week...I tested myself and my bg was 4.7, so the strips are fine ....I have fed the exact same food no change there...She's peeing and pooing as normal...and not in search of water, no fur balls either...her bg has fallen now to 22 +9
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2017
  91. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    Oct 4, 2017
    Surely she can't carry on like this much longer, she's going to become so poorly....I really do appreciate all your comments and advice, but this is now making me ill...I'm having trouble sleeping because of the worry...I'm worrying about what her tests will be before I've even done them... I'm worried about leaving her to go out and constantly clock watching so I don't miss her tests/feeding/shots...Molly on the other hand doesn't seem to have a care in the world..On the outside she looks the same as she did years ago x
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2017
  92. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    ((((Sue))))), sometimes our kitty's numbers spike up and we just don't the reason why.
    My cat's numbers were pretty high for a long time when he was first diagnosed. Even so, after nearly 11 years of diabetes, he's now made it to the age of 19.

    The BG numbers that you see aren't the whole story. Your cat is still the same adorable cat that she was before this diagnosis. Diabetes is just part of the picture. And the insulin will be helping Molly's body, even though you're not always seeing that reflected in the numbers.

    You're doing fine. It does take patience though. As we say around here, 'managing diabetes is a marathon and not a sprint'. ;)
    .
     
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  93. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    Oct 4, 2017
    You must be getting sick of me constantly posting in here, but this morning Molly's Amps was 5.1, so no insulin this morning...last night it was 22.3, could she be starting to produce her own insulin, could this explain her up and down BG...I've changed nothing, routine is the same, feeding is the same, she seems well on the outside etc... totally clueless as to what's going on here.
     
  94. Monica & Josie

    Monica & Josie Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2017
    Hi Sue,
    Going by this number it looks very likely that there is some activity going on in there.
    It is a beautiful ps number but as I always say just be prepared for anything and whatever follows try not let it get to you too much.
    Hope you and kitty will enjoy a nice blue day:)
     
  95. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    Oct 4, 2017
    I think it's a case of frustration and disappointment mixed Monica, I'll do more regular tests today, see how she goes...here's hoping x
     
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  96. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    Oct 4, 2017
    She's lost a kilo since being diagnosed almost 3 months ago, so maybe that's reflecting in her figures, although she had a couple of dark greens a while back, so maybe not x
     
  97. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    No! Of course not! That's exactly what the forum is for, Sue. :bighug:

    There are several possible reasons for a low preshot number with Caninsulin (Vetsulin), including:

    The cat producing some insulin of its own:

    Patterns you might typically see here are either that the BG drops into a good range, and then 'surfs' there for the rest of the cycle;
    OR, that the BG drops throughout the entire cycle. The latter could also be caused by 'bouncing'.

    Bouncing:
    When a cat's blood glucose drops too low or too fast for the body's comfort, the body can release stored glucose to raise the BG level. It can also release counter-regulatory hormones, the purpose of which is to try to keep the BG high. Once the effect of that wears off the BG will drop again. And sometimes it will drop, and drop, and drop throughout an entire 12 hour cycle, or even longer.

    If bouncing becomes a pattern you'd typically see high, 'flat' numbers, interspersed with low numbers. So, if this pattern is observed on a cat's SS bouncing should be considered as a possibility.

    Possible 'remedies' for bouncing depend on the reasons why the bouncing is happening:
    If the BG is dropping too fast (but the insulin dose itself seems sound), giving a second meal an hour or hour and a half into the cycle may help to slow down the rate at which the BG drops. (Manipulating the cycle with food is called 'steering the curve'.)

    If the BG is dropping too low (ie. potentially into hypo range), then the insulin dose needs to be reduced.

    If the BG is staying at safe levels but is just dropping too low for the cats comfort level, there are a couple of options:
    1. It's possible that reducing the dose a little may help to even out the cycle by keeping the BG above whatever level is triggering the bounce. Some folks try to get their cats used to the BG level just above the trigger point, and then gradually take the cat's BG down a bit lower. Does this work? Sometimes. Sometimes not.
    2. Alternatively, you can just continue with the dose and hope that the cat gets used to the lower numbers and stops bouncing. Does this work? Sometimes. Sometimes not.
    Some cats are just more prone to bouncing than others; and some will even bounce all the way to remission... :cat:


    Eliz
     
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  98. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    Oct 4, 2017
    I find all that so confusing Eliz, Molly's a little eater, she only eats a little at a time, so demand feeding is impossible, she never evens eats a full meal at breakfast....I've just done another test,+3 is 6.1, I'll do another +6, my guess is by tonight it'll be pretty high again...I still don't really know about all his adjusting doses, meals etc, but I really do appreciate all your help, thank you so much
     
  99. Diana&Tom

    Diana&Tom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2009
    Sue, I suggest having a really good read of the Beginner's Guide to Caninsulin which you'll find on the C/V forum. A new updated version hot off the press was posted by Elizabeth yesterday... it's the result of months and months worth of work by a team of people here working together to make using these insulins as easy and straightforward as possible... I strongly suggest printing it out and keeping it handy to answer some of your questions. We spent ages deliberating over the tiniest detail and making it as user-friendly as possible.
     
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  100. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    Oct 4, 2017
    I've read it, but I still don't understand it all, sorry, it must just be me
     
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